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Thread: Helter Skelter: Charles Manson and the Manson murders

  1. #51
    Senior Member Jumaki15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    they've got the bonnie and clyde death car on display in vegas or stateline.
    I know that. I have been to the Henry Ford museum in Michigan and they have the presidential limo Kennedy was killed in. I meant there is like no traveling freak show of that kind of stuff anymore really. And especially with a body, I don't see how it could be legal. But who knows

  2. #52
    Senior Member Words Words's Avatar
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    There's a lot of people obsessed with him. They would travel to see his dead body.

  3. #53
    Senior Member PeaceBeWithMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words Words View Post
    There's a lot of people obsessed with him. They would travel to see his dead body.
    That is just creepy as shit.


    Quote Originally Posted by marshmallow View Post
    did you make her into a wallet Bill? cuz if you did I'm off team Bill.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Jumaki15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumaki15 View Post
    I know that. I have been to the Henry Ford museum in Michigan and they have the presidential limo Kennedy was killed in. I meant there is like no traveling freak show of that kind of stuff anymore really. And especially with a body, I don't see how it could be legal. But who knows
    lol I know they would, what I don't know is how legal that is. And I am sure, even if this crazy chick did get his body and make money from it, a lawsuit from family members of victims would probably negate most of any money she would make

  5. #55
    Administrator Olivia's Avatar
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    I saw Lenin's dead body when I was in Russia. I'd see Manson's if I was in the area.

  6. #56
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    Thank you. Somebody finally said it.

  7. #57
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    SAN LUIS OBISPO, Calif. -- After 43 years in prison and 29 parole hearings, parole officials are again considering whether it is safe to free Charles Manson follower Bruce Davis.

    The Board of Parole Hearings has recommended three times that the 72-year-old Davis be released from prison. Each time the parole has been blocked, once by former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and twice by Gov. Jerry Brown.

    Brown most recently rejected Davis' parole a year ago, saying he remains dangerous despite his age.

    Davis is at the California Men's Colony in San Luis Obispo.

    On Thursday, for the 30th time, parole commissioners will consider if Davis should be paroled in the 1969 slayings of musician Gary Hinman and stuntman Donald "Shorty" Shea.

    Davis was not involved in the notorious killings of actress Sharon Tate and six others.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/parole-c...r-bruce-davis/

  8. #58
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    and the updated article for Thursday's hearing.

    After 43 years in prison, parole officials again say it is safe to free Charles Manson follower Bruce Davis.

    Parole commissioners recommended Thursday that Davis be paroled in the 1969 slayings of musician Gary Hinman and stuntman Donald "Shorty" Shea.

    It's the fourth time for such a recommendation, but the 72-year-old Davis remains imprisoned at California Men's Colony in San Luis Obispo.

    The previous three such recommendations by the Board of Parole Hearings were blocked, once by former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and twice by Gov. Jerry Brown.

    Brown most recently rejected Davis' parole a year ago, saying he remains dangerous despite his age.

    It will be about five months before he decides on Thursday's recommendation.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/27...r-bruce-davis/
    Last edited by bermstalker; 08-28-2015 at 03:11 AM.

  9. #59
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    120 days to overturn it. he's not out of the woods yet.

  10. #60
    I think they should let Davis out. They've paroled people who committed far worse crimes. Of the core Manson Family convicts, Van Houten seems like she is truly remorseful, and after 46 years, she should be given a chance. After all, she was not sentenced to life without parole. Not so sure about Krenwinkle. Tex is right where he belongs, and Atkins died right where she should have. Of course it goes without saying that Charlie is home.

  11. #61
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    & Charlie's the only one who didn't actually kill anyone.

    I've always wondered if he'd have copped this level of sentencing & notoriety if he was born 30 years later. Drug-fucked group murders are pretty run of the mill these days & anyone spouting the kind of shit Charlie did back then would just be called a whackjob conspiracy theorist, not considered an omnipotent, mind control guru.

    The whole "decent middle-class kids ruined by EVIL DRUGS SCOURGE" & "innocent kids from good families manipulated by lower class streetwise criminal with hypnotic powers" wouldn't really wash now either.

  12. #62
    Not so sure it washed then either, because every one of them used that defense in varying degrees and none have ever been released. There's Steve Grogan, but I'm not sure he was a core member. Charlie's crazy as a loon, but I think he likely would've received a similar sentence had those crimes occured in the present time. They'd likely all be on death row too, but California hasn't executed anyone for about 10 years now.

  13. #63
    Senior Member Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    & Charlie's the only one who was never convicted for killing anyone.

    I've always wondered if he'd have copped this level of sentencing & notoriety if he was born 30 years later. Drug-fucked group murders are pretty run of the mill these days & anyone spouting the kind of shit Charlie did back then would just be called a whackjob conspiracy theorist, not considered an omnipotent, mind control guru.

    The whole "decent middle-class kids ruined by EVIL DRUGS SCOURGE" & "innocent kids from good families manipulated by lower class streetwise criminal with hypnotic powers" wouldn't really wash now either.
    Fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I thought the exact same thing. Poor Brennen Tammons.
    Oh well, back to gum.
    ....or exchanging Puke's wang for spicy nuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    I know, right? What the fuck, puke? Willing to take in Boston, an Irish dude and like, 17 dogs but not Ron? poor Ron.

  14. #64
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Yeah, first of all you do more time for 'murder for hire' if you are the one who hires the people/recruits the people. So no, if he did this nowadays, the cult thing still standing, he would be eligible for the death penalty.

    Second, Charles Manson DID kill people. They found several bodies that they tied to him but can't come up with a strong enough case at the time.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Yeah, first of all you do more time for 'murder for hire' if you are the one who hires the people/recruits the people. So no, if he did this nowadays, the cult thing still standing, he would be eligible for the death penalty.

    Second, Charles Manson DID kill people. They found several bodies that they tied to him but can't come up with a strong enough case at the time.
    Yeah. Bowie makes a good point. Wasn't it about two weeks ago that Georgia executed Kelly Gissendaner?
    Although not murder for hire exactly, she was seen as the orchestrator of her husbands death. I know much was made at the appeal that she hadn't killed anyone and the ones who did got a lesser sentence.

    Don't know enough about the Manson murders to know if he killed anyone. But yes, Bowie is right I think. Also in the UK we now have a law called Joint Enterprise, rather like Texas Law of Parties, where acting together for a common purpose makes you equally culpable.

    I have serious issues with that law, but from what I do know of the Manson case, I'm doubting he is no victimn of a miscarriage of justice there....I'm not saying that's what you are saying he is, far from it- just that he was no innocent in those crimes.

  16. #66
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    Yeah, I guess he probably would have, I forget how many differences there are between our legal systems sometimes. I totally didn't realise it involved murder for hire, but then I don't think I've really read anything more than a page or two on Charlie since I was 11, so there's probably a lot of details I missed that come out after the 70s.

  17. #67
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    He recruited teenagers for several brutal murders in exchange for drugs, that's the whole Manson murders. He was a fucking cult leader who manipulated people with the aid of psychedelics into murdering his enemies because they wouldn't sign him to a record contract....and he murdered the wrong people. He was a career criminal before that. I have zero sympathy for Charles Manson, he is a monstrous human being who is exactly where he belongs.

    In America, that shit is illegal and those people are responsible for the crime even if he did not actively slice the baby in Sharon Tate's stomach. You commission a murder, you are responsible. Look at the Mafia. Do you think a Don gets his hands dirty or gives anyone actual money? No, he uses his power and position to get his dirty deeds done.

  18. #68
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    Chill. I just worded it really badly & made it sound like I think he'd be fine walking the streets. That's not what I meant & I should've spent more time explaining myself.

    What I was trying to say (very awkwardly) is that there's hardly a shortage of fucked up weird rapist/murderers who have been convicted beyond any doubt, but then released to repeat their crimes & get convicted all over again - some of them repeatedly.

    The only difference I can see between some of these released killers & Charles Manson is the insane level of hype that surrounded him in the 70s. & seriously, the coverage was fucking insane back then. People genuinely believed he had some kind of crazy hypno mind control powers when the truth is he's nothing but a fucked up petty criminal who just happened to pull this shit at a time when a lot of people were using seriously strong mind altering drugs.

    I'm not in anyway trying to diminish the impact he's had & the grief he's caused but I don't believe he's really that much worse than a lot of other irredeemable convicted killers - & there's at least a few of them released every day.

    (& yeah, I know, I don't understand how it works in the U.S, maybe they're in different jurisdiction or something - but I'll be surprised if there aren't at least a few who were released by the same courts that won't ever release Charles Manson).

  19. #69
    Senior Member Jumaki15's Avatar
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    Wait, are we seriously arguing whether Charlie should still be in prison or not?

  20. #70
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    Noooooo. Just whether or not the media coverage at the time meant he got a longer sentence, I think?

    I'm always a bit dubious about the US media coverage of crimes prior to trial and the right to a fair trial. Over here we are much tougher on that. But let's face it, coverage or not he deserves his sentence.

    Don't know enough about the others to make a credible judgement though.

  21. #71
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    If he committed those murders now, there would be ten times as much media coverage. The media are more powerful today than ever. No one in the 70s would have even heard of Jodi Arias.

  22. #72
    Senior Member Jumaki15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Noooooo. Just whether or not the media coverage at the time meant he got a longer sentence, I think?

    I'm always a bit dubious about the US media coverage of crimes prior to trial and the right to a fair trial. Over here we are much tougher on that. But let's face it, coverage or not he deserves his sentence.

    Don't know enough about the others to make a credible judgement though.
    Ah, gotcha. I think it's difficult to determine if he got his long sentence due to themedia coverage because, at the moment, I can't think of any similiar circumstances that have occured really since then.

    As far as the sentences of the others, I am not going to lose any sleep wondering if any of them have the right to a second chance. They can get a second chance when the people they killed get a second chance

  23. #73
    Senior Member bermstalker's Avatar
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    I think the Manson story would be HUGE today. Cult leaders are always a huge media draw. Cult leaders are, IMO, some of the most interesting people/cases to study if I was in the criminal business. Even as an average joe, I find the fact that a person is able to brainwash so many....not just one person, but many people...scary.

    There have been tons of cult leaders in various forms. I think you could even say a cute pop singer has the potential to be a cult leader. The more interesting fact to me has always been the follower. What makes somebody hero worship somebody? Something has to be flawed mentally for somebody to follow another person so blindly. When I think of a cult leader....im always reminded of Jim jones (kool aid drinker) that will def always be the cult story that leaves chills up my spine. Or if you want to really be morbid and hit the darkest of the dark of a human's soul.....Hitler.



    Manson is where Manson should be for life. Leaders of cults are very dangerous people.

  24. #74
    Senior Member puzzld's Avatar
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    Also, he killed some famous/wealthy people Sharon Tate, Abigale Folger, (of Folger's Coffee fame) and of course sentences are more severe if you kill someone "important"
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  25. #75
    Senior Member Jumaki15's Avatar
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    I dunno. All I know is all these assholes deserve to be where they are.

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