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Thread: Helter Skelter: Charles Manson and the Manson murders

  1. #26
    Senior Member zeebee's Avatar
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    Re: Helter Skelter: The Manson murders

    Helter Skelter was the first true crime book I ever read and is probably responsible for my fascination with true crime to this day.  I've read a couple of other Vince Bugliosi books too, another good one is And The Sea Will Tell, but totally different kind of story.

    Interesting Q&A article: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1915134,00.html
    "...Jeffrey Dahmer... actually confessed and accepted his punishment. Had real remorse for the sick things he did. It's pretty bad when Jeffrey Dahmer is a better person than you are." ~Justice11 (re: Jodi Arias)

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    Senior Member mialynneb's Avatar
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    I know old thread is old and the murders themselves ...but I'm reading Helter Skelter right now. My mom is a big true crime reader and I remember being little and seeing her copy of the book. I have a lot of other books on infamous crimes and there is always a section about Manson but good lord, Bugliosi did a great job with this book. It's one massive mind-fuck but very interesting (sad for obvious reasons). The couple parts in the book that freak me out is how Manson supposedly went to two other homes for a "creepy-crawl" and he decided against one because there were pictures of children on the walls and the other I think because the people weren't home. They never figured out the house with the kids but Kasabian identified the other house they had scoped out. The police and prosecutor decided not to tell the people living there because they didn't want them to live in fear or with the knowledge that they could have been murdered.

    The other part of the book is how Bugliosi described how he would just chat with Manson in chambers. He would tell Bugliosi all sorts of crazy shit because he knew it couldn't be used in trial because he hadn't been made aware of his rights etc.

    Anyway, if you haven't read it and have an interest, I highly recommend it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chauncy View Post
    Huh? you're a woman?

  3. #28
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    You'll have to change the words a little guys but I'm sure you'll come up with appropriate rhyming verse wherever replacements are needed.
    Last edited by blighted star; 08-17-2014 at 01:21 AM.

  4. #29
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/09/ju...s-manson-wife/
    I AM CHARLES MANSON'S WIFE




    Afton Burton was 16 and living with her parents in Illinois when she discovered Charles Manson. Now, nine years later, her name is Star, she's 25 years old, and she considers herself Charles Manson's wife, even though it isn't official yet. Who would marry Charles Manson? Manson: "He filed for the first round of paperwork," says Star, who says she's in love with the 79-year-old convicted murderer. "I'm completely with him, and he's completely with me. It's what I was born for, you know. I don't know what else to say."

    Star says she was first attracted to Manson after reading about ATWA, Manson's environmental philosophy that stands for air, trees, water, animals. "It's the life on the planet, you know," Star says. "The Earth is a rock and everything else on it is ATWA." After a few years of sending letters and talking to Manson on the phone, Star, at age 19, moved to Corcoran, a small central California city that's home to Corcoran State Prison, where Charles Manson has lived for the past 25 years. She talks to Manson almost every day by phone and visits him on most weekends. "We talk about anything and everything, you know, like what's going' on today-- who's doing what. I try to help him file papers and stuff like that," the slender brunette says.

    The prison limits physical contact. During visits, Star and Manson can only hug each other at the beginning and end. Because Manson is serving a life sentence, they won't be allowed conjugal visits, even if they're officially married. Star says she knows people think she's crazy. "I don't care what those kind of people think. It doesn't make any difference," she says. "The man that I know is not what they have in the movies or in documentaries and the books. He's nothing like that. He doesn't tell people what to do. He's not manipulative at all."

    Star spends her days painting and maintaining several of Manson's social media sites, including MansonDirect.com. Her goal is to try to get Manson out of prison, arguing that he had nothing to do with the seven Tate-LaBianca murders that he was convicted of masterminding. "Charlie never believed in something called Helter Skelter. That didn't have anything to do with why those people were killed," she says of the theory prosecutors used that Manson persuaded a group of followers to kill wealthy white people to incite a race war by framing the Black Panthers.

    "He never ever thought any of that stuff. That's ridiculous," says an emphatic Star. "That's crazy." Star is fiercely loyal to Manson. She still has a scar from when she shaved her head and carved an X in her forehead two years ago, an act similar to what girls in the so-called Manson Family did during his 1971 trial. She says she did it at Manson's request as a protest after he was put in solitary confinement.

    Critics believe Star is being manipulated by Manson, and that ATWA is just a ploy to get young people like her to pay attention to him. "The only thing that he's trying to manipulate people into doing is planting trees and cleaning up the Earth. He genuinely cares about that," says Star. "He's nice to everyone. I've never seen him try to be manipulative. I've never seen any of that." Star says Manson, who turns 80 in November, is in good health, and she doesn't think about what she plans to do with her life after he's gone.
    Last edited by blighted star; 08-17-2014 at 01:24 AM.

  5. #30
    Junior Member ChaosTheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
    Absolutely, disgusting. I know she said she wants to marry him so she can gain access to his case files and help him, but wtf? She wasn't even born at the time of the murders and while not the most horrific murders ever, they are one of the most notorious.
    I went on the Dearly Departed Tour just this past summer and learned some mazing facts I did not know about this case, even though I have read and scene practically any available media on it. I even received a piece of a brick from the fireplace that was in the home of the Tate murders. Not sure how I feel about it yet. I am a bit afraid of some bad Juju, for owning it.
    Anyway, most of all I am surprised that Tate?s family hasn?t protested this marriage. It was Sharon?s mother and sister who petitioned to ban conjugal visitations for lifers and won. They should have included marriage. Even though he will never touch her, he should not be allowed the right to marriage or the opportunity to wreck another young woman?s life. Where are her parents? Shame on them.

  6. #31
    Senior Member raisedbywolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosTheory View Post
    Absolutely, disgusting. I know she said she wants to marry him so she can gain access to his case files and help him, but wtf? She wasn't even born at the time of the murders and while not the most horrific murders ever, they are one of the most notorious.
    I went on the Dearly Departed Tour just this past summer and learned some mazing facts I did not know about this case, even though I have read and scene practically any available media on it. I even received a piece of a brick from the fireplace that was in the home of the Tate murders. Not sure how I feel about it yet. I am a bit afraid of some bad Juju, for owning it.
    Anyway, most of all I am surprised that Tate?s family hasn?t protested this marriage. It was Sharon?s mother and sister who petitioned to ban conjugal visitations for lifers and won. They should have included marriage. Even though he will never touch her, he should not be allowed the right to marriage or the opportunity to wreck another young woman?s life. Where are her parents? Shame on them.
    If they can't have conjugal visits, can she legally be considered his wife to gain access to the files? I thought a marriage had to be consummated before it was legally recognized.


    Quote Originally Posted by Angiebla View Post
    He left an apology note? Ok he's crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Words Words View Post
    that's what makes him crazy? I thought it was the chips.

  7. #32
    Senior Member queenaevadamthng's Avatar
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    There is always at least one loony toon out there. I am curious as to this chick's mental capacity.


    "Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. But use your eyes, your common sense".... JIM GARRISON

  8. #33
    Senior Member blighted star's Avatar
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    Re her parents, they aren't happy at all, there was an article about them a while back, but what the hell can they do about it other than abduct & imprison her anyway? She's an adult, a young, naive & silly one, but an adult nonetheless.



    Just wondering, does anyone thing he'd get the same sentence, or any sentence at all if this happened today, considering he was never even at the crime scene & the belief in personal responsibility is currently a lot bigger than the belief in super-hypnotic evil

  9. #34
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Sharon Tate's parents are alive? They must be a billion years old.

  10. #35
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Sharon Tate's parents are alive? They must be a billion years old.
    i think she is talking about the new wife's parents. they are not happy but there is nothing they can do about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

  11. #36
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Well, yeah, plenty of people marry people their family wishes they wouldn't.

  12. #37
    Senior Member queenaevadamthng's Avatar
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    The bride's parents must be so proud to have Charles Manson as a son-in-law.


    "Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. But use your eyes, your common sense".... JIM GARRISON

  13. #38
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by queenaevadamthng View Post
    The bride's parents must be so proud to have Charles Manson as a son-in-law.
    I doubt they'll ever have to meet him.

    And also the girl strikes me as mentally ill.

  14. #39
    Senior Member Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    If they can't have conjugal visits, can she legally be considered his wife to gain access to the files? I thought a marriage had to be consummated before it was legally recognized.
    We must share a brain because that was my first thought. That and the fact that if she came to her senses she could easily have the marriage annulled.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I thought the exact same thing. Poor Brennen Tammons.
    Oh well, back to gum.
    ....or exchanging Puke's wang for spicy nuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    I know, right? What the fuck, puke? Willing to take in Boston, an Irish dude and like, 17 dogs but not Ron? poor Ron.

  15. #40
    Moderator bowieluva's Avatar
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    No, it doesn't. That's only if you want the church to recognize the annulment, not the legal world. The Catholic church doesn't annul marriages that have been consummated.

    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...on+of+marriage

    CONSUMMATION OF MARRIAGE. The first time that the husband and wife cohabit together, after the ceremony of marriage has been performed, is thus called.
    2. The marriage, when otherwise legal, is complete without this; for it is a maxim of law, borrowed from the civil, law, that consensus, non concubitus, facit nuptias. Co. Litt. 33; Dig. 50, 17, 30; 1 Black. Com. 434.

  16. #41
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    He's on the market again ladies!

    Charles Manson’s fiancee allegedly only wanted him for his corpse

    CORCORAN, Calif. — The news of infamous criminal Charles Manson’s recent engagement to a woman in her 20s turned some heads late last year — but a new twist in the story is even more unbelievable.

    According to the New York Post, journalist Daniel Simone told the tabloid the engagement was a scheme by the fiancee to profit by putting Manson’s body on public display after his death.

    Simone and a collaborator, Heidi Jordan Ley, are currently working on a book, “The Retrial of Charles Manson.” The authors claim to have spoken with Manson regularly before his phone privileges were suspended.

    Manson, 80, and Afton Elaine Burton, who according to the Post is now 27 and goes by the name Star, applied for a marriage license in November.

    The license expired last week, but they had originally planned to reapply for another.

    But now, in an unexpected twist, Simone told the Post that it was all a scheme. Burton and a friend, Craig Hammond, said they planned to place Manson’s remains in a glass crypt after his death — similar to the famous tomb of Vladimir Lenin in Moscow. They believed it would be a popular attraction for tourists.

    They hatched their plan after learning that if Burton married Manson, California law would give her possession of Manson’s remains.

    According to the New York Post, Simone said Manson doesn’t want to marry Burton any more.

    “He’s finally realized that he’s been played for a fool,” Simone told the Post.

    Simone also told the paper Manson believes he is immortal — “[t]herefore, he feels it’s a stupid idea to begin with.”

    Manson faces a life sentence and is currently serving at California State Prison in Corcoran, California. He is not eligible for parole again until 2027.

    http://wgntv.com/2015/02/09/charles-...or-his-corpse/

  17. #42
    Senior Member Kelly-Jane's Avatar
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    The most disturbing thing about any of that is that he was allowed to be married.

  18. #43
    Senior Member Jumaki15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly-Jane View Post
    The most disturbing thing about any of that is that he was allowed to be married.
    Hey, you can lock him up, but you can't lock up his love. Or his fiancee's desire to make money off his corpse.

  19. #44
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

  20. #45
    Senior Member PeaceBeWithMe's Avatar
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    Poor Charlie.

    He must be so sad.

    Let's send a fruit basket.


    Quote Originally Posted by marshmallow View Post
    did you make her into a wallet Bill? cuz if you did I'm off team Bill.

  21. #46
    Senior Member puzzld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    Sharon Tate's parents are alive? They must be a billion years old.
    you made me curious:
    Col. Paul Tate, father of slain actress Sharon Tate, dead at 82
    KRON- AP ^ | 5/23/05

    Posted on 5/23/2005, 10:07:54 AM by Borges

    COUPEVILLE, Wash. -- The father of slain actress Sharon Tate has died of congestive heart failure at a convalescent home in Coupeville at 82. Paul Tate died Wednesday. The news of his death was announced Sunday by a nephew, Ron Cobb, in Los Angeles.

    Sharon Tate and four others were slain at her Beverly Hills estate on August 9, 1969, by followers of Charles Manson. She was married to director Roman Polanski and was eight months pregnant at the time.

    Manson was later convicted of masterminding the murders, carried out by his disciples in a killing spree that claimed two additional victims.

    Paul Tate was an army intelligence officer who launched his own investigation into his daughter's murder when he felt Los Angeles police were slow to find the killers. He retired from the military soon after his daughter's death.

    Paul Tate outlived two of his three daughters. His wife Dorris died of cancer in 1992 and another daughter, Patty, died of breast cancer in 2000. He is survived by his youngest daughter, Debra, of Riverside, Calif.
    Quote Originally Posted by bowieluva View Post
    lol at Nestle being some vicious smiter, she's the nicest person on this site besides probably puzzld. Or at least the last person to resort to smiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by nestlequikie View Post
    Why on earth would I smite you when I can ban you?

  22. #47
    Senior Member Jumaki15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animosity View Post
    couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
    Is it even legal to do that kind of thing nowadays? I mean, even like Jayne Mansfield's car was taken around the country to be on display, but I haven't heard of anything like this since then, which was over 50 years ago. Seems like something that wouldn't be allowed anymore

  23. #48
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBeWithMe View Post
    Poor Charlie.

    He must be so sad.

    Let's send a fruit basket.
    pretty sure the guys are giving him fruit baskets every day in the slammer.
    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

  24. #49
    Senior Member animosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumaki15 View Post
    Is it even legal to do that kind of thing nowadays? I mean, even like Jayne Mansfield's car was taken around the country to be on display, but I haven't heard of anything like this since then, which was over 50 years ago. Seems like something that wouldn't be allowed anymore
    they've got the bonnie and clyde death car on display in vegas or stateline.
    Quote Originally Posted by songbirdsong View Post
    "Say, you know who could handle this penis? MY MOTHER."

  25. #50
    Senior Member Kelly-Jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumaki15 View Post
    Hey, you can lock him up, but you can't lock up his love. Or his fiancee's desire to make money off his corpse.
    Apparently not

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