Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[Angiebla]

[QUOTE=Wishmich;3397107]Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
I'm not entirely sure this is correct. Almost 20yrs ago, a woman was murdered 30ft from me with a handgun. A few months later, on an archaeological dig, I was standing on a hillside in the bush with 20 other students while our professor gave an impromptu lecture. Unlike many Australians, I had been raised with guns in my home. I also had a family member in law-enforcement related employment & I had a fair bit of experience with graphic crime scene photos as a result of that & of my course choices at uni.
snipped for space...

Thanks for sharing your experience with us, I would have been horrified if I witnessed that (I would be the one who fainted). I know very little about PTSD, thanks for clearing some stuff up for me!

[blighted star]

morning Justice!
In all fairness, a lot alot of times we see people cherry pic from JA lies. Flores and JM even picked a few. My hope is the jury goes my way and doesn't buy into a world that comes out of her mouth.

Sorry, OFF TOPIC but I love it when you guys are all posting "Good Morning" at 11.50pm. Makes me feel my topsy-turviness all the more.

[Brillig]

The last photo of Travis alive ...what is that expression? Fear, terror or profound sorrow?? It is haunting an d heartbreaking.

I have a non-mainstream theory on this... I think he is trying to look like a sexy Calvin Klein model. I think that is the "tiny grain of truth" in this section of Jodi's story. She convinced him to let her take these pics, and had given him some story about some Calvin Klein ad she had seen and wanted to recreate or do something similar to. I think that look is Travis' version of that vacant, intense, haughty, sexy look that models so often have on their faces. It comes out looking different when regular people do it. I think she also got him to sit down in the shower as part of the whole CK photo shoot ruse. (As a test of "the look", try asking someone you know to give a facial expression like a model, and view the result).

This isn't meant to come across with a sceptical pro- Jodi tone... [SNIP] So..what evidence do we have that he didn't react badly in the immediate aftermath of these incidents, & if there is evidence he took the prior incidents well, will the jury have access to it?

In reference to Jodi blowing out the engine of his car that she was buying from him, I seem to remember Jodi testified that he was not upset, and also stating that same thing in the interview with Flores?

(Btw, the car was a BMW, not a Mercedes, my bad.)

My opinion is on them as friends, not their legal value to the case. Call me crazy, but I don't have friends that jump to believe the absolute worst about me at the drop of a dime. I predict Hughes will come out all over a media blitz, and not take responsibility for anything. It'll all be JA's fault, she made them jump to doubt their long time friend.

CHughes is a professional speaker on Law of Attraction. He is a big shot with Legal Services. So where is the positive LOA in doubting your friend, jumping to believe some crazy bitch you just met, believe the killers lawyer without at least bothering to use your PPL to get some advice before blabbing with the killers lawyer!?

I agree, and posted a long post saying so back when this was first being discussed. With friends like the Hughes, who needs enemies? There is no chance I would sell out a friend of mine, especially a good friend, on the basis of what some stranger I just met said about them. Shameful.

Anyone else notice

JA sticks to Feb 2 for her and TA 'official'. If they were official, why was she telling Abe Feb 18 "although I'm not Travis' girlfriend"

Just a suggestion, but it's been confirmed she's a manipulator. Isn't it a little risky to take any denials/minimisations she makes to a man, regarding her relationship with another man, at face value? It's in her interest to keep them all sweet & thinking she's not more involved with another guy than she is with them. Is it likely this is something she's always done, even in relationships that are recognised as having been "real"?

I think you hit that nail right on the head. She makes them all feel special and keeps her options open. She is a constant manipulator of men.

[elamir]

Good morning, elamir, what time is it over there? I'm not sure anyone called him a jerk, he's just saying it's not a psychological term.

When I come on in the morning, 630am today, you guys are usually tucked up in bed.

I read about it at the time but didn't go looking for the video, Alyce def called him a jerk in open court as I saw lots of people talking about it. Maybe someone here will remember it and what day. It's why he started to say if someone called the prosecutor a jerk, then he changed tack and said anyone.

[wasthinking]

Quote Originally Posted by blighted star View Post
I'm not entirely sure this is correct. Almost 20yrs ago, a woman was murdered 30ft from me with a handgun. A few months later, on an archaeological dig, I was standing on a hillside in the bush with 20 other students while our professor gave an impromptu lecture. Unlike many Australians, I had been raised with guns in my home. I also had a family member in law-enforcement related employment & I had a fair bit of experience with graphic crime scene photos as a result of that & of my course choices at uni.

In the immediate aftermath of the murder, I seemed to handle the scenes we witnessed a whole lot better than my co-workers - for instance, unlike many there, I didn't faint, vomit on anyone, scream or shake uncontrollably. However, in the middle of this lecture, on a rural hillside in the bush, my blood suddenly ran cold -I'd never understood that saying til that moment. Below us, further down the hill, was a farmhand aiming a rifle at something in our general direction. Rifles aren't an uncommon site on rural properties or in my family. I'd never been bothered by the sight of one before, but I was completely stricken with fear that he was about to start picking us off.

So, no, a bear's not a tiger, but it is large mammal with teeth & claws & a known history of fatal attacks on people. Of course we'd have to interview a wide sample of tiger attack survivors to know for sure, but I suspect she's wrong on this one. I totally get her argument - it's great in theory. But rifle/handgun, tiger/bear - any "exotic" animal with a reputation for fatal mauling would have the potential to set off intrusive memories. They'd see any large teeth or claws & feel it happening to their body all over again. I think even images of a great white shark with it's teeth exposed could do it for any victim of a serious mauling. In real life, the triggers just aren't that specific. A very specific trigger may cause a more intense reaction, but to insist that only specific triggers cause reaction at all, in ALL cases of PTSD is really not correct. If that jury member has a personal knowledge of PTSD they may be very aware of this & Dr D's credibility will take a hit because of it. ETA- daaaamnit. Shoulda stuck to my rule of not posting from behind, just found Anniebelle's & there's probably more..


I had a long discussion about PTSD regarding diagnosis and symptoms with the Chief of Staff of Behavioral Health at a very large hospital. It was related to my job, but I won't bore you with the details. Anyway, there is a deeper reasoning in diagnosing PTSD than just a traumatic event and the anxiety that is caused afterward. It is very specific. I gave an example which to the lay person (me) would think it's considered PTSD, but he gave very specific reasons that it would not be diagnosed as PTSD. He said people can confuse anxiety for PTSD. With that said, I think we could all give an example of our own lives thinking that it's PTSD, but in reality it is much more complicated than that. He gave specifics, but since i'm not a doctor, there's no way I'd be able to explain it the way he did.

I 'get' what Dr D was trying to convey. Too bad she was incapable of climbing out past two text book scripts to add any depth of understanding.
If attacked by a bear or tiger, certainly either could be a trauma if both were based in reality. zBut, that juror knows by the defendants own mouth, one is a LIE. An invention. fabricated BS.

A bear or tiger attacks you in real life.
you watch a movie, pretend, invented, made for TV tiger attack.

That juror is an idiot. They might as well asked, can you get PTSD from watching a movie.

[Wishmich]

I 'get' what Dr D was trying to convey. Too bad she was incapable of climbing out past two text book scripts to add any depth of understanding.
If attacked by a bear or tiger, certainly either could be a trauma if both were based in reality. zBut, that juror knows by the defendants own mouth, one is a LIE. An invention. fabricated BS.

A bear or tiger attacks you in real life.
you watch a movie, pretend, invented, made for TV tiger attack.

That juror is an idiot. They might as well asked, can you get PTSD from watching a movie.

I agree. I hope that juror is not in deliberations. On another note, I'm still reeling over the fact Jodi exchanged phone numbers with a dude on a plane. I swear she doesn't have a soul.

[wasthinking]

I have a non-mainstream theory on this... I think he is trying to look like a sexy Calvin Klein model. I think that is the "tiny grain of truth" in this section of Jodi's story. She convinced him to let her take these pics, and had given him some story about some Calvin Klein ad she had seen and wanted to recreate or do something similar to. I think that look is Travis' version of that vacant, intense, haughty, sexy look that models so often have on their faces. It comes out looking different when regular people do it. I think she also got him to sit down in the shower as part of the whole CK photo shoot ruse. (As a test of "the look", try asking someone you know to give a facial expression like a model, and view the result).



In reference to Jodi blowing out the engine of his car that she was buying from him, I seem to remember Jodi testified that he was not upset, and also stating that same thing in the interview with Flores?

(Btw, the car was a BMW, not a Mercedes, my bad.)



I agree, and posted a long post saying so back when this was first being discussed. With friends like the Hughes, who needs enemies? There is no chance I would sell out a friend of mine, especially a good friend, on the basis of what some stranger I just met said about them. Shameful.





I think you hit that nail right on the head. She makes them all feel special and keeps her options open. She is a constant manipulator of men.

Why / how do you pick which lie to believe or believe a liar at all? First it was no way would he go for that. Considering he hadn't in a year and a half, that he was the kind of guy that wouldn't want the damn pics public for any CK anything, that he was trying to break away from the psycho, get in Mimi's life. And he would explain who took naked pics of him for this supposed new ego to Mimi and his friends .. how?

If one wanted to pic a lie, there's more weight to support her first lie, 'he would never go for that' than switching suddenly after seeing pics and Flores running off at the mouth to any CK overnight invention to go with ninjas. WATCH the cues she takes from Flores to invent CK on the fly. True psycho manipulation, she took those cues and ran with them.

[wasthinking]

I agree. I hope that juror is not in deliberations. On another note, I'm still reeling over the fact Jodi exchanged phone numbers with a dude on a plane. I swear she doesn't have a soul.

But but but, she said, she had to move on. Poor thing went and killed the last guy, oops. Now she was all alone, nobody in her parasistic life. Ryan was out. We know she's sensed his cold feet. She already knew that wasn't going anywhere. Whats a girl to do but troll on and look for new humping grounds.

I wish I knew what her reaction 'oh my God the Purple Plum' and looking at JW worried was all about. In my observation, she was holding her breath on that one wondering wth Martinez knew. by her later actions, JM either missed something JA thought wouldnt come out, or for legal reasons JM couldn't get something in.
about 1:00 Purple Plum http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSIB_bDCeCE

[Brillig]

Why / how do you pick which lie to believe or believe a liar at all? First it was no way would he go for that. Considering he hadn't in a year and a half, that he was the kind of guy that wouldn't want the damn pics public for any CK anything, that he was trying to break away from the psycho, get in Mimi's life. And he would explain who took naked pics of him for this supposed new ego to Mimi and his friends .. how?

If one wanted to pic a lie, there's more weight to support her first lie, 'he would never go for that' than switching suddenly after seeing pics and Flores running off at the mouth to any CK overnight invention to go with ninjas. WATCH the cues she takes from Flores to invent CK on the fly. True psycho manipulation, she took those cues and ran with them.

It was his camera. He was in control of it. He could humor her, then delete any or all of the pics. They would never have been "public".

As far as what to believe... some things just 'ring true' for me. Usually not the whole thing, but sometimes bits and pieces. That bit rang true for me, and also fit more logically with the evidence, imo. Your mileage may vary.

I don't buy that she took the pics at gunpoint.
I don't buy that she sneaked in and took those pics without him knowing.

That does not leave many other options. The photo shoot scenario fits.

[blighted star]

If I maybe so intrusive as to comment upon your story. We are comparing a tiger (handgun) to a panther (shotgun). If we were comparing a bear (high powered bow) to a tiger (handgun) we can see the difference. Something to think about.

Sorry all, won't post anymore on this one but it was important to try to explain (I'm still not doing it very well)

Yeah, I get that. In theory it sounds perfectly reasonable & there were a few more posts that made my post unnecessary had I caught up fast enough.I understand you're saying my examples were both firearms & for it to be valid it required a different category of weapon. I understand the theory, I really do, but it just doesn't always work that way in real life. Rather than clog the thread completely, I'll just say that wasn't the only nasty incident I've been involved in & triggers just aren't that specific. If he was aiming a crossbow, it still would've caused the same visceral response & it may have been worse. I could rationalise that the rifle wouldn't hit us from that distance because I had a vague knowledge of guns.I couldn't have reassured myself at all if it was a crossbow because I have no experience with them.

They both fire projectiles from a distance & bears & tigers both maul with teeth & claws. It's also the vulnerability & potential for attack you react to, not the solely the object or specific source of the trauma. Any object or situation that could pose a similar threat if things went awry will cause the same fear response as experienced in the original incident. I can state this as fact because I have experienced it & so had most of the members of a group I interacted with.

If a juror has your background & understands the theories related to ptsd they will hold similar views to you. If they, or someone they know has actually experienced ptsd, they may hold a very different view. That's all I'm saying. Not that the theories wrong, so much as not right in all cases. To state that it is , to someone who has experienced the very thing that is being denied isn't a good way to gain credibility. & I understand why it would invalidate the test, but some may not.

[Saffron]

The prosecution allowing for a diagnosis of a personality disorder concerns me a little. While the description DeMarte gave does provide a more believable characterization of Jodi and runs contrary to the defense’s characterization of her as a calm, collected sweetheart who pathetically put up with an abusive man because she had low self-esteem, I’m concerned that a psychological diagnosis of any kind could work against the prosecution’s theory. Perhaps some jurors would interpret the diagnosis to mean that Jodi is abnormal in her thinking and responses, and therefore did feel a heightened sense of fear with Travis, even if the situation would be considered non-threatening to a normal person. What will the jury do with the information that Jodi has Borderline Personality Disorder? Will they think it explains that Jodi is emotionally unstable and prone to anger, that she idealizes and then de-values people? Or will some jurors conclude that her cognitive abilities can be impaired at times by unstable emotions and therefore believe that she did feel seriously threatened and acted in self-defense, and went into a disassociative mode afterwards? Of course, I hope they see DeMarte's testimony as helping to explain that Jodi was capable of premeditated murder, but I dread that some of the jurors may think it helps explain how Jodi could misinterpret emotions and feel threatened by Travis that day. (Too bad this trial has gotten so psychological, but that's how the defense is playing it... and dragging it out.)

[wasthinking]

It was his camera. He was in control of it. He could humor her, then delete any or all of the pics. They would never have been "public".

As far as what to believe... some things just 'ring true' for me. Usually not the whole thing, but sometimes bits and pieces. That bit rang true for me, and also fit more logically with the evidence, imo. Your mileage may vary.

I don't buy that she took the pics at gunpoint.
I don't buy that she sneaked in and took those pics without him knowing.

That does not leave many other options. The photo shoot scenario fits.

I will stipulate the prosecution sides with you.
I don't think either of us will make or break the case with one of the other. But for fun...

In my best JM voice ..
so you believe he had control because its his camera right?
ok, so if she creeps back and took his camera without him knowing, that to you is he still had control of it?
so what you are saying is, he deleted pictures of his bleeding body because its his camera, he controlled it, right?
so, after having his throat slit, shot in the head, Mr Alexander, owned the camera so he had control to delete killing pictures.
so you are telling us, after he was dead, its still his camera so Mr Alexander, w this control, threw the camera in the washing machine ?

[loonywop]

...

[PopRocks]

The prosecution allowing for a diagnosis of a personality disorder concerns me a little. While the description DeMarte gave does provide a more believable characterization of Jodi and runs contrary to the defense’s characterization of her as a calm, collected sweetheart who pathetically put up with an abusive man because she had low self-esteem, I’m concerned that a psychological diagnosis of any kind could work against the prosecution’s theory. Perhaps some jurors would interpret the diagnosis to mean that Jodi is abnormal in her thinking and responses, and therefore did feel a heightened sense of fear with Travis, even if the situation would be considered non-threatening to a normal person. What will the jury do with the information that Jodi has Borderline Personality Disorder? Will they think it explains that Jodi is emotionally unstable and prone to anger, that she idealizes and then de-values people? Or will some jurors conclude that her cognitive abilities can be impaired at times by unstable emotions and therefore believe that she did feel seriously threatened and acted in self-defense, and went into a disassociative mode afterwards? Of course, I hope they see DeMarte's testimony as helping to explain that Jodi was capable of premeditated murder, but I dread that some of the jurors may think it helps explain how Jodi could misinterpret emotions and feel threatened by Travis that day. (Too bad this trial has gotten so psychological, but that's how the defense is playing it... and dragging it out.)

I dont know if i agree with this. Having a personality disorder like BPD isnt a mental condition to where she didnt know what she was doing, and it isnt an excuse to commit a crime. Jodi was aware of what she was doing

If anything, i think DeMarte's testimony helps explain why jodis not showing any remorse for what she did

[wasthinking]

AZ reporter Mike Kiefer

Michael Kiefer‏@michaelbkiefer2h
I'm hearing a .25 caliber gun was found near Hoover Dam, where Jodi says she disposed of hers, and authorities are checking it out.


some on twitter are telling MK it is a hoax or email virus, MK is saying he'll follow up on it tomorrow.

[Saffron]

I dont know if i agree with this. Having a personality disorder like BPD isnt a mental condition to where she didnt know what she was doing, and it isnt an excuse to commit a crime. Jodi was aware of what she was doing

If anything, i think DeMarte's testimony helps explain why jodis not showing any remorse for what she did

I agree with you. I just hope the jurors know what to make of a diagnosis like that. I may have missed it, but I don't think there was an explanation during DeMarte's testimony of what, in general, a personality disorder is and what it isn't. Hopefully the jurors get it and won't over-analyze or misinterpret the meaning. This trial is too damn long, so it's becoming easy for me to start wondering how things could go horribly wrong with a jury being bombarded with endless details.

[Saffron]

^I meant endless details from the defense, not the prosecution or Demarte.

[loonywop]

...

[eliqueang]

In my best JM voice ..
so you believe he had control because its his camera right?
ok, so if she creeps back and took his camera without him knowing, that to you is he still had control of it?
so what you are saying is, he deleted pictures of his bleeding body because its his camera, he controlled it, right?
so, after having his throat slit, shot in the head, Mr Alexander, owned the camera so he had control to delete killing pictures.
so you are telling us, after he was dead, its still his camera so Mr Alexander, w this control, threw the camera in the washing machine ?

Perfect! but you gotta throw a ma'am in there

AZ reporter Mike Kiefer

Michael Kiefer‏@michaelbkiefer2h
I'm hearing a .25 caliber gun was found near Hoover Dam, where Jodi says she disposed of hers, and authorities are checking it out.


some on twitter are telling MK it is a hoax or email virus, MK is saying he'll follow up on it tomorrow.

i think this would be amazing if it's true! Most likely a hoax but if not, honestly which one of you guys or girls went out there with a metal detector?!

[loonywop]

...

[PopRocks]

so that makes him innocent?She was comming back on his command,you can't force sex,can you?As a woman. In fact he told her to get the fuck out after he was "done with her"............stand up guy he was.........Everyone say's he was single but hey he alway's came back to his free booty,not really smart.He was addicted and she was his drug and he couldn't say no.............FACT...........

So even if that was all true, does that give her the right to kill him? Because thats what this trial is really about

[blighted star]

[QUOTE=zeebee;33969


I had a traumatic experience as a child that involved fireworks. I am now afraid of everything that can explode, including gas stoves and propane tanks.[/QUOTE]


Thankyou for that, especially because you're from the U.S. I was starting to think there was some sort of Australia-only thing going on, but that made no sense. It was making me very confused. Maybe there needs to be a broader study?

[Ian 1]

What's the address of the Courthouse where Arias's Trial is being held?

Anybody?

[DenverClipper]

so that makes him innocent?She was comming back on his command,you can't force sex,can you?As a woman. In fact he told her to get the fuck out after he was "done with her"............stand up guy he was.........Everyone say's he was single but hey he alway's came back to his free booty,not really smart.He was addicted and she was his drug and he couldn't say no.............FACT...........

Geeze - There sure are a lot of FACTS around here. Funny how most FACTS are nothing more than opinions.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming

[DenverClipper]

What's the address of the Courthouse where Arias's Trial is being held?

Anybody?

175 West Madison Street
Phoenix, AZ. 85003