Apparently 100% of gun owners would. Fact.Originally Posted by bowieluva
Apparently 100% of gun owners would. Fact.
If she had any inkling of his history & I'm sure she suspected something, she may have tried to talk him down when he was ranting but might've been half sure the "stake-outs" were just excuses to engage in his pre-marriage life. Besides, the fucked reality is that the statement "I know someone who's violent at home, owns guns & also hates gay people & sometimes threatens to kill them" is not exactly rare & may not get the reaction you expect from police - given quite a few of them have similar beliefs & behaviours.
& also, also, given the first wife's statements & what we know for a fact he did at Pulse, there is just NO WAY this woman wasn't living under extremely harrowing circumstances for the entirety of that marriage. I've seen interviews where her mother (hmm I *think* it was the 2nd wife's mum, will have to check for sure) said she didn't like him because he cut her off from her family & policed her contact with the world, she wasn't even able to speak with her own mum.
Given what we know, it's highly likely Bowie's 100% right on the abuse effects. If she's suddenly, unexpectedly been set free from years of violent physical & psychological oppression, she's not going to immediately be able to begin speaking freely about him, it just doesn't work that way. It will be months or years before she's able to feel safe giving an accurate account - & that's not a choice she'll make. She's going to be incapable of forming the necessary thoughts & putting them together coherently, let alone speaking them out loud for quite some time.
& lastly, if she was aware of his lifestyle there's also a possibility she could be implicating herself out of guilt. I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that she may have felt anger/hatred/jealousy toward anyone/anything that she associated with his liaisons outside their marriage. If she'd been wishing horrible things against the people she blamed for her husband's behaviour, she might now feel an unwarranted responsibility for the attack - "I thought about it/wished for it > it happened > if I hadn't thought/wished it might never have happened". That kind of unrealistic level of self-blame isn't uncommon in victims of long-term abuse & unfortunately for her, police & Murdoch media will be only too happy to twist it into something more.
I absolutely agree.
The first version I found, I got the impression that he was holding the door against the shooter- and he got all kinds of shit for that.Now, it was a hallway- I could see either scenario honestly. I understand thinking in a panic he was keeping the shooter behind a door, and while a tragic mistake, its also very different than trying to move the door so people could actually exit the building. Im curious if anything is done to clarify what actually occurred.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.- D. Moynihan
I WILL STICK MY DICK IN YOUR HEAD
Neither her or her family is claiming he abused her. Just because his ex claimed abuse doesn't automatically mean that she was abused. I'm not down with letting a Woman off the hook based on what the public assumes when she and the family don't even claim she was abused.
You do realize that Women are capable of being involved in plots such as these, right? San Bernardino is a perfect example. She went with him to case the places AND to obtain the guns and ammo AND discussed the plot with him. That's an accomplice.
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
There were no claims about abuse in San Bernardino though, as there were here. If he was an abuser of one, he was an abuser of others. People just don't stop that behavior.
You can't assume that. I'm not saying Wife #1 wasn't as abused, but since she never pressed charges we also don't have proof that he was an abuser either. Thus why he was able to legally obtain the guns.
So we're assuming she's telling the truth and assuming the second wife was also abused despite both She and her family claiming no such thing in order to declare her innocent. Whereas there's no assuming she wasn't aware of his plans, didn't go with him to case the club and wasn't with him buying guns and ammo. Those are facts.
If the tables were turned and this were a guy that we were talking about, there would be a lynch mob.
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
If this were a guy who had been in the military, people would be postulating about PTSD.
I dont think it is a bias to say certain groups are vulnerable to certain extenuating circumstances or life events.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.- D. Moynihan
I WILL STICK MY DICK IN YOUR HEAD
My point is that if there were ever a time to claim a defense, it's now and they aren't. Yet the public is offering up an excuse anyway.
IF she were abused, I could see her being so brainwashed as to not say anything. But even her Mother or rest of her family isn't making this kind of claim. Why is the public automatically jumping to that conclusion?
People didn't claim PTSD with the guy in SB that supplied the guns and was aware of a plot. Just sayin.
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
I think people are looking at the relevent background- the guy from Sb wasnt in the military was he?
Every person thinks of the different factors that go into a tragedy like this - both pro and con. It doesnt mean its necessarily people looking for excuses. People look at mitigating factors. Like- if this assbag was deep in the closet- did that contribute to his mental state? Maybe? Maybe not? Either way it is certainly not an excuse.
I dont know that the people involved would even necessarily be aware that certain things were not normal. Battered wives dont always stand up right away and say " Yeah its cause he beat me" . There is so much still not known , I think speculation from every angle is a far cry from accusation or excuse at this point.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.- D. Moynihan
I WILL STICK MY DICK IN YOUR HEAD
Uh pretty sure this guy was crazy and volatile, like every description of him from everyone who knew him in even a passing capacity has described, and people, regardless of religion or country of origin, tend to be kind of scared of crazy, volatile people, especially when living with them.
I don't think this was some Isis sleeper cell.
I'd also like to give a huge shoutout to the Republicans who are refusing to call this a hate crime and playing the whole song of 'this happened to ALL of us, we don't understand what people mean by homophobia' and then three days after the shooting blocked legislation to prevent discrimination against homosexuals in the government.
But hey they also blocked legislation that would have prevented this guy from getting his gun. Can we charge THEM with accessory?
I guess you're right about speculation from either side. Personally, I'm angry and rightfully so. This bitch had the ability to prevent 102 people from being maimed and killed and didn't speak up. My sympathy lies with the victims and their families. Not with her.
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
But did she? As we have seen... people can go to the cops, get restraining orders and still end up dead. People can make all sorts of threats and never follow thru. All you are doing (as we all do) is assuming that if she had gone to the cops they would have done something that would have stopped this from happening. But the cops can't arrest somebody for something they might do, especially on someone else's say so. Maybe they would have stopped the pulse murders only to have sent him to Disney World... The only sure way she could have stopped this was to knife him is his sleep. But the I killed him to keep him from doing an awful thing alibi doesn't keep you out of jail...
The truth is we don't have enough information yet to condemn or exonerate her. But everyone wants to blame someone when shit like this happens. I say blame the politicians who blocked legislation that would have curtailed his access to his weapon of choice.
You're absolutely right. I was ready to just throw the book at her without hearing any real defense or getting any real information. I think it comes from wanting someone to be punished for this, and since he's dead she's the one who's left who may have known something was up. But you're right in saying we don't know that for sure. We don't know much of anything, not even if she was being abused. I agree that we should withhold condemnation until we get more information. She has the right to a fair trial just like any of us, if it comes to that.
"A vagabond dreamer, a rhymer and singer of songs
Singing to no one and nowhere to really belong." - Waylon Jennings
To rebut your argument, by early afternoon Sunday, Mateen's name was out as the killer and that he was dead.
He was no longer a threat to her as a corpse. She could have and should have contacted the authorities.
Noor Salman was at home. Hubby not back. Name all over the media. Yet she did not contact the authorities on Sunday or Monday.
Meanwhile, the father has been all over the media like a cheap suit.
Reports are that LE first started interviewing this woman on Tuesday. I've not seen anything yet to reveal if she came forward or if they tracked her down. She was obviously staying somewhere, but where?
Counterpoint: you're the Palestinian wife of a man who just claimed Isis ties and killed a ton of people, in a country where the Republican candidate wants to expel all Islamic people because it's become his most popular platform by racists. Would you feel safe at all coming forward? Would you trust anyone to believe you or would you expect them to arrest you and throw you in Guantanamo?
This is a shoot first ask questions later country, I'd imagine she was fucking terrified.
It does make you wonder if maybe wifey was just used to hearing her husband spew out hate about people all the time.
Maybe it wasn't uncommon for her to hear racist, nasty stuff against certain people. Maybe he always threatened to take those people out or blow them up......but in her own mind she really didn't believe he would actually do anything.
It's also possible she was raised in a racist family....then married a racist man, so it may not have seemed strange to her.
Idk. Just a thought.
Well, boweluva,you ignorant slut- since you've started with counterpoint.
Just kidding. Hope you remember Jane Curtain and Chevy Chase way back before cable TV.
I've read the wife was first generation American. Her mother supposedly immigrated- I've seen Afghanistan for her family as well that of Mateen. Still wading through rumors, unofficial reports vs. official statements.
Natural citizen or not, her behavior is separate from the issue of her legal culpability.
Fortunately for you I am familiar with the skit.
I completely disagree with the last point, not just for this woman but for everyone of even potentially Muslim descent living in the United States. The prejudice they face on a daily basis is horrifying. I've witnessed it first hand in New York. If you even look slightly 'Islamic', people hurl racial slurs and threaten you. Every day, this woman (similar to the gay community preyed upon) experiences some kind of harassment for her ethnicity and religion. She has no reason to feel safe in the United States or trusting of authorities, especially when the people in charge are the ones bantering ideas that are archaic and insane about her religion. (See: England expels all the Jews using similar rationale and justifications in the 16th century). Calling the police with something like that is a HUGE, TERRIFYING THING for black people, women, Islamic, Middle Eastern people, basically anyone who isn't a white man and has no real reason to believe that the system works for them.
I think there could be cultural issues at play though .
In addition, the police may not be telling the media (understandably) if they identified her right away or what. I dont think I would take the media saying she was interviewed starting Tuesday as a hard and fast line.
ETA - what bowie said.
Last edited by Monter; 06-16-2016 at 02:57 PM.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.- D. Moynihan
I WILL STICK MY DICK IN YOUR HEAD
I feel that (at least so far) there's more evidence of her having knowledge of what he Husband was capable of doing than not. He drove himself to the club to pull off the attack, so why would she ever go with him there if she didn't have similar views? One article states that her family was very religious which means being homosexual would have been considered an abomination in her eyes, so I see no reason why she would accompany him to a gay club unless it was for reasons that weren't right. Not only is the club 2 hours away, but it probably wasn't her ideal spot for a night on the town.
I also realize that pictures on FB can be misleading, but every photo I've seen of her doesn't exactly paint the picture of a wife living under her Husband's thumb. Genuine happiness, beautiful selfies etc.
I know it's speculation, but it's my opinion that she's not some innocent shrinking violet. If she didn't really believe he'd do it, why try talking him out of it? I just don't buy it.
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
From the newest news reports it does sound like wife knew what was up. She even texted him during the shootings and told him she loved him. He wanted to know if she was watching the news.
Sounds like they are charging her.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ourth-day.html
I heard pretty much the same earlier on NBC News.
Was she aware that he had been investigated by the FBI for links to terrorism? I would think that alone would be enough that she could walk in to any police station and be taken seriously.
I'm not passing any judgment (yet), but still.
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