Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[Metis212]

Actually this is the first time JW asked a good question...she asked if there was evidence the bullet penetrated the frontal lobe (or something similar). That was a very good question because the frontal sinus is very close to the bullet hole. If bullet tumbled around thru the sinus cavity, we would still see bleeding into the ear. Travis would have been in extreme pain and screaming. If the bullet went into the right frontal lobe, then travis would have lost motor skills and the ability to think, plan to get away and talk. For me, his testimony brought some doubt. (dont kill the messenger)

[M Joy]

Juror 8 asked to be dismissed for job/work related reasons. He was told trial would end approximately April 11 and with arguments/deliberations/possible mitigation phase/sentencing this will go until June.

I hope the judge has verified with the remaining jury that their schedules will allow the entire month of May.

Metis - JW did not ask any new questions. She asked the same questions that she asked Dr. Horn in January.
He again stated that the bullet went through the frontal lobe.

[NCBlonde]

Juror 8 asked to be dismissed for job/work related reasons. He was told trial would end approximately April 11 and with arguments/deliberations/possible mitigation phase/sentencing this will go until June.

That is what I have read, on twitter. I think it's highly possible. Who couldn't have a conflict come up in 4 month's time? I find that explanation very believable, but, there hasn't been anything official and from what I've read it's sealed, so we can't really know for 100%.

Either way, I don't think it's fair to the juror to speculate as to why he was released.

I know there was speculation on the previous 2, but that's a different situation. We know Juror 5 was dismissed due to some of her actions on the jury. We know the other guy -- 11 I believe -- was for some kind of health reasons. That was directly from the judge. We haven't heard anything official for Juror 8, so I think it's not productive to speculate.

[smurfy]

Could someone please point me in the direction of the judge allowing the defense another shot? (video, court minutes, docket, anything?) Or is it because Wednesday is going to be a long day?

[Harlette]

Actually this is the first time JW asked a good question...she asked if there was evidence the bullet penetrated the frontal lobe (or something similar). That was a very good question because the frontal sinus is very close to the bullet hole. If bullet tumbled around thru the sinus cavity, we would still see bleeding into the ear. Travis would have been in extreme pain and screaming. If the bullet went into the right frontal lobe, then travis would have lost motor skills and the ability to think, plan to get away and talk. For me, his testimony brought some doubt. (dont kill the messenger)

actually its the same thing she asked last time

original testimony
Q: Well just so we're clear you don't actually have any medical evidence of it passing through the brain, right?
Dr. Horn: It had to have passed through the brain
Q: You don't have any medical evidence of that do you?
Dr. Horn: I do, the skull is perforated where the brain is, so it had to have passed through the brain.
Q: Well
Dr. Horn: The brain is there
Q: But you have no idea, you have no medical evidence of how far or what part of the brain exactly it would of hit, right?
Dr. Horn: It would have passed through the right frontal lobe
Q: Uh um
Dr. Horn: I just don't have any evidence of hemorrhage now because of decomposition. But it had to have passed through the brain because the part of the skull that was injured. The brain in a young person especially, is flush against that structure
Q: Um uh
Dr. Horn: The brain occupies the entire skull, so to have a hole in the skull here and exit in here, it has to pass through the brain.
Q: Well the exits, there's no exit.
Dr. Horn: The exit from the skull cavity into the face.
Q: uh ha.. so but but what you're saying though, you have no idea how where that bullet might have hit, it could have just grazed the tip of the brain, right?
Dr. Horn: No, it had to have passed through the right frontal lobe of the brain. Based on where these holes in the skull are
Q: And you're sur
Dr. Horn: There's no way it could have avoided the brain.
Q: Ok, and you're sure of that?
Dr. Horn: Yes!

[wasthinking]

WT, I wanted to bring up a pretty good point. During the hearing about misconduct with the prosecutor, Juan brought up that Jodi tweets. That proves that she is giving the ideas to someone and conversing with someone over what to say. My point is that she is a witness in this case, all witnesses are subject to the admonition set forth by the judge. All the ideas that she has come up with, if in fact they are from outside sources, prove that she has not kept the admonition that the jury has had to abide by. In my opinion, I say it's all bullshit! The judge, if she was worth her salt would have said right then and there, the tweeting stops and no outside influence period. She talks to her DT and no one else except for her skanks in jail. Judge Stephens is directly at fault for all the crap and fuckery that is being allowed to go on in this trial. Yes, there is the social media aspect of it, the HLN bullshit that I commented on last night at length but it is the judges job to nip it in the bud.




I can't confirm it or not but I think he excused himself due to a conflict in schedule. Either way, I have not lost hope at all. Justice will prevail even if, God forbid, Jodi got manslaughter. Know why? She will be a recluse the rest of her life like Casey Anthony, afraid for her life and in hiding. I for one, would not like to spend the rest of my life looking over my shoulder wondering whom has it in for me next, when that time will come? I still want M1 though



Yeah, Nurmi was a douche to put Deanna through all that. I'm sure at least the female jurors would feel for her in that moment, being forced to talk about her sex life with Travis. I just hope the males did too!



^^ That!

sorry faq, but you aren't being fair. Maybe running on emotions? JA tweeting issue in that hearing you have no one to blame but JM. HE is the one that should file a motion, he doesn't want to. It isn't fair to blame his 'lack of providing the court evidence' on it on anyone but him. And like it or not, if you come outside hero worship, Nurmi and the Judge were both right! File a fucking motion or don't, but that is JMs call not their job to do it for him.

Again, blame Nurmi for Deanna but look away when JM got up and screamed about Jizz facials to her? And it was okay JM slammed down that awful neck picture for NO reason to sweet Lisa, and shocked the family so bad they had to leave the court? But that's okay because you need an idol? Not to me, go back and watch the families faces, there is no way they understood that dirty trick! If people were really objective and fair, ask yourself, if Nurmi had done the same thing, would you have been so quick to excuse it away?!!

Don't get me wrong, there is plenty I don't like in the def side, but lets not pretend there was all kindness in JM every minute either.

[NCBlonde]

Could someone please point me in the direction of the judge allowing the defense another shot? (video, court minutes, docket, anything?) Or is it because Wednesday is going to be a long day?

Purely speculation at this point. But, we know Martinez is done. And we know that there will be a long day on Wednesday; judge said however long it takes. We also know jury instructions are on Thursday and final arguments on Thursday and Friday.

So, with no further prosecution witnesses, process of elimination says the defense will call their rebuttal witness on Wednesday. Other than that though, no we don't have anything official to confirm that.

[Brillig]

@stark3923 46m

Juror #8 i am told was excused for work reasons/conflict dates - he was told case would end April 11 not May 15

I hope that is true. I would feel terrible for that juror if they were dismissed for cause at the last moment after spending 4 months of their life on this case.

I don't know a great deal about the extent of the evidence with OJ. some with CA - from what I understand, there wasn't even a cause of death available on Caylee. The JA trial has mountains upon mountains more evidence so just because this trial has been sensationalized so much doesn't mean the jury will be that stupid. I obviously may eat my words but right now I have faith in them.

My summary of the OJ case... not much evidence, all circumstantial, and major police shenanigans. It was a devastating combination. I agree with you, just because the JA case has been sensational does not mean the defendant will be acquitted. There is plenty of evidence here, plus she confessed.

I'm starting to feel a little down/worried too, the more I think about how things went down today. The dismissal of Juror 8 was troubling since he was apparently a frequent note taker and looked like he might have had a chance at foreman. Now someone else needs to step up to the plate. I hope that there are people on that jury that have been acting uninterested to throw the DT off but really were very into it.

While I like note taking jurors, and I would probably be that type, I don't think failure to take notes means they are uninterested. They could easily be people who saw those horrible death pics and felt fairly convinced early on that she was guilty, so why take notes?

But we can't forget all the progress JM made in only a few days, tearing down nearly 3 months of defense testimony.
This rebuttal case and the questions asked by the jury solidified the belief I have that JA will be convicted of Murder 1.

YES! Exactly that. That is what we should be remembering about the last couple days, and feeling good about.

does anyone else on here get knots in their stomach from this trial? I swear that my blood pressure goes up and the knots get tighter with the thought.............. that one juror believes stabby!

Even if one juror believes Jodi at this moment, it is unusual for one juror to hold out after hearing the arguments of the other jurors. Juries are more likely to hang if several jurors don't think the prosecution proved their case. As I have said before, it takes a very strong, stubborn and bull headed person to be the lone juror that hangs a jury, especially in a case as lengthy as this one. Also, only 5% of felony cases end in a hung jury, and those are usually cases with much less evidence than there is here.

So, while it is not impossible we could end up with a hung jury in this cases, I think the chances are very, very low.

I dont know why some people are getting depressed. The facts havent changed at all, and this past week we have seen some good evidence introduced to disprove almost everything jodi has claimed so far

Today was a little jumbled, but overall imo nothing really changed in favor of jodi imo

I think the juror getting dismissed is what is bringing everyone down

I agree with all three statements. Well said.

I agree. I think everything went VERY favorably in coming to justice. I think JM scored some major brownie points with the jury this week too, in his speedy/effective examinations. While Nurmi was still slow as ever, and even somewhat insulting to poor Deanna; the jury will pick up on that.

Exactly.

That's from Thomas Brown; supposedly an ex-roommate of Travis. Supposedly Jodi tried to point the finger at him initially.

Yes. I looked that one up a long time ago. It happens at the temple tho. Maybe because he wasn't temple worthy, he felt the need to do it himself- if he in fact did do that.

Thank you for explaining that, Jillee. It has been so helpful to have posters familiar with LDS to explain some of the details.

[smurfy]

Purely speculation at this point. But, we know Martinez is done. And we know that there will be a long day on Wednesday; judge said however long it takes. We also know jury instructions are on Thursday and final arguments on Thursday and Friday.

So, with no further prosecution witnesses, process of elimination says the defense will call their rebuttal witness on Wednesday. Other than that though, no we don't have anything official to confirm that.

I see. Thank you so much for the reply! greatly appreciated!!

[Metis212]

actually its the same thing she asked last time

original testimony
Q: Well just so we're clear you don't actually have any medical evidence of it passing through the brain, right?
Dr. Horn: It had to have passed through the brain
Q: You don't have any medical evidence of that do you?
Dr. Horn: I do, the skull is perforated where the brain is, so it had to have passed through the brain.
Q: Well
Dr. Horn: The brain is there
Q: But you have no idea, you have no medical evidence of how far or what part of the brain exactly it would of hit, right?
Dr. Horn: It would have passed through the right frontal lobe
Q: Uh um
Dr. Horn: I just don't have any evidence of hemorrhage now because of decomposition. But it had to have passed through the brain because the part of the skull that was injured. The brain in a young person especially, is flush against that structure
Q: Um uh
Dr. Horn: The brain occupies the entire skull, so to have a hole in the skull here and exit in here, it has to pass through the brain.
Q: Well the exits, there's no exit.
Dr. Horn: The exit from the skull cavity into the face.
Q: uh ha.. so but but what you're saying though, you have no idea how where that bullet might have hit, it could have just grazed the tip of the brain, right?
Dr. Horn: No, it had to have passed through the right frontal lobe of the brain. Based on where these holes in the skull are
Q: And you're sur
Dr. Horn: There's no way it could have avoided the brain.
Q: Ok, and you're sure of that?
Dr. Horn: Yes!

Thanks for the exact testimony.

[Harlette]

Could someone please point me in the direction of the judge allowing the defense another shot? (video, court minutes, docket, anything?) Or is it because Wednesday is going to be a long day?

i think its because the state rested and the judge said there will be a witness on wed. - and the witness needed time to fly in from cali - so it appears the will get their sur-rebttal - if there wasn't a sur-rebuttal allowed then as soon as the state rested they would have gone right to closing arguements

[Harlette]

Thanks for the exact testimony.

lol the knife gun debate went for so long i finally got the video and the transcribed testimony and book marked it cuz there was so much fighting then

[Freaktab]

so sorry Jillee, but closing your eyes and ears isn't reality my dear. Life hurts less if you stare it in the face and if you learn nothing else from this case but "take it at face value" you've gained a good lesson. I know you didn't ask for free advice but it is sent from the heart.

This is excellent advice for anyone, I think.

Above all, this trial has afforded the viewer a glimpe into a truly deranged person who truly believes the lies she tells to herself and others. That is why she seems so shocked and outraged when she is proven wrong and it is scary for normal people to observe.

The trial is a sensational spectacle, but I believe everyone here realizes that a good man is dead. Travis was not perfect, but he never claimed to be and I think he could not believe Jodi would really hurt him. In the trial, the DT has done just about everything it could to trash the victim and make Stabby look justified. I remind myself that this is an old tactic and it is done by most defense attorneys to remove the spotlight from the defendent. What scares me is that this strategy has worked before... OJ and CA are just a few.

I have to believe that the jury will ignore the deflection and send JA where she belongs.

[faq_q]

sorry faq, but you aren't being fair. Maybe running on emotions? JA tweeting issue in that hearing you have no one to blame but JM. HE is the one that should file a motion, he doesn't want to. It isn't fair to blame his 'lack of providing the court evidence' on it on anyone but him. And like it or not, if you come outside hero worship, Nurmi and the Judge were both right! File a fucking motion or don't, but that is JMs call not their job to do it for him.

Again, blame Nurmi for Deanna but look away when JM got up and screamed about Jizz facials to her? And it was okay JM slammed down that awful neck picture for NO reason to sweet Lisa, and shocked the family so bad they had to leave the court? But that's okay because you need an idol? Not to me, go back and watch the families faces, there is no way they understood that dirty trick! If people were really objective and fair, ask yourself, if Nurmi had done the same thing, would you have been so quick to excuse it away?!!

Don't get me wrong, there is plenty I don't like in the def side, but lets not pretend there was all kindness in JM every minute either.

Oh, I am not defending JM at all. He is just as guilty of slamming even his own witnesses with inappropriate questions. I am merely stating that when you talk about Jodi coming up with new ideas for her defense, it is obvious that her keeping any sort of admonition is thrown out the window. She is getting those ideas from visitors, Donovan or whomever she is in contact with on the outside. I was also pointing out that she is a witness and should be held to all the previous admonitions that every other witness or juror in the case have been held to. I don't think that it was Juan's position to even mention that to the Judge, she should have control over her courtroom enough to know the fuckery that is going on and nip it. I think it is pretty obvious that Jodi does in fact communicate with the outside. If she is going to be left to her own devises, then why have a fucking admonition at all? Jurors, witnesses should all get access to the media then and whatever information it might provide them in making up their minds on this case. I am not appreciative of all the crap that the DT has put up so far and how the prosecution is kept on the short leash. That is not emotions taking over rather a fair is fair mentality.

[wasthinking]

Cricket, because the defense knew the prosecution witness was going to bring up BPD. They could've put up their own witness prior to Dr. DeMarte to cut that off and deny it.

You'll notice that at one point, Dr. D. was going to discuss some other disorders, and Martinez cut her off. Most likely because those were new and had not been mentioned in her prior interviews with the prosecution, defense and her reports.

Anyways, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Blonde, I think you aren't considering Nurmi's argument to understand why the judge had to allow this.
You really need to read the Supreme court decision that Nurmi used for his argument. And understand how the law works. It does not matter just what they 'thought' Dr D might say, they are perfectly right in waiting to hear what she says in front of the jury. They don't have to preempt a damn thing if they don't want to. They are perfectly within common practice on this one. And there was nothing to predict she would tear apart their experts over and above her dx.

What the important law is in this instant is ... Dr D went well past just testifying about BPD! Juan had her tear down the other experts credibiltity. THAT is the very issue that Supreme Court case remanded the case Nurmi presented for argument and like it or not, he was right, JM was wrong this time.
Sorry I can't remember the case name right now and didn't save it, but it's around somewhere, starts with a "T" Tal something? I bet the shit site has it. ; )

[dizzyp]

RE: "Protection Ritual" is that a Mormon thing?

Yes. I looked that one up a long time ago. It happens at the temple tho. Maybe because he wasn't temple worthy, he felt the need to do it himself- if he in fact did do that.

belated thanks Jillee- I just read up on that as well.

[Brillig]

The other things that occur to me watching the video are one, as noted before, Travis had A LOT of shoes! And two, Nurmi's pants are about 3 sizes too small. He's stuffed into those things like a sausage.

And now sausages are ruined forever more.

Well, with a stomach that big, Nurmi only has two choices: Have the waistline of the pants ride under the stomach (as seen in the pic above), or, have the waistline belted above the stomach, which is usually just under the man boobs (see the pic below). Neither is a good look, so they just have to choose what they see as the lesser of two evils.

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

Well, with a stomach that big, Nurmi only has two choices: Have the waistline of the pants ride under the stomach (as seen in the pic above), or, have the waistline belted above the stomach, which is usually just under the man boobs (see the pic below). Neither is a good look, so they just have to choose what they see as the lesser of two evils.

Stick a Fez on Nurmi, he's done.


I'm waiting to see whether or not JM will be allowed to argue Stabby's lack of remorse during the sentencing phase.

[AnnieBelle]

I guess I am not a quitter not matter what!

I looked up something about the use of a small caliber bullet hitting a head. When President Reagan was almost killed, I am sure you all recall James Brady. Well, Hinckley fired a R?hm RG-14 .22 cal.[17] blue steel revolver and hit Brady in the head. He lived and we all know what condition he is now living his life.

AND, I am really pissed off by one of the HLN defense guests (don't recall his name), but he offered the opinion that a 25 caliber does not do much damage. And why police officers went to larger calibers during some gun fight in the past. I just don't think the defense needs any help. They can do their own dirty work since they are making a fortune defending a murderer.

That's the spirit!!! I apologize if I sounded pissy, earlier. I was more frustrated with the way things went this morning (the question that Juan DIDN'T ask!!!) and my bad moment was misdirected at you. I am sorry.

[Harlette]

oh god - i have hln on in the background - and the just pronounced salinas as sal-line-us - like the peanuts character linus

[wasthinking]

Oh, I am not defending JM at all. He is just as guilty of slamming even his own witnesses with inappropriate questions. I am merely stating that when you talk about Jodi coming up with new ideas for her defense, it is obvious that her keeping any sort of admonition is thrown out the window. She is getting those ideas from visitors, Donovan or whomever she is in contact with on the outside. I was also pointing out that she is a witness and should be held to all the previous admonitions that every other witness or juror in the case have been held to. I don't think that it was Juan's position to even mention that to the Judge, she should have control over her courtroom enough to know the fuckery that is going on and nip it. I think it is pretty obvious that Jodi does in fact communicate with the outside. If she is going to be left to her own devises, then why have a fucking admonition at all? Jurors, witnesses should all get access to the media then and whatever information it might provide them in making up their minds on this case. I am not appreciative of all the crap that the DT has put up so far and how the prosecution is kept on the short leash. That is not emotions taking over rather a fair is fair mentality.

But that is my point. it IS JMs job! and he said right in court he wasn't going to deal with it.
from hate hate hate her mentality. It would have to prove first off that it is in fact her. Courts go on proof not HLN lol Prove it is her and her thoughts / statements not Donovan's and all that bs. Donovan is a piece of shit and would just lie anyway. So what is the point in even wasting the time or energy on it? It has nothing to do with Twitter. JA can tweet all she wants, she is not convicted yet. Nurmi was right there too, that is freedom of speech we all enjoy. The only issue would be if they could PROVE it was her and.. drum roll ... it was something that "directly effected the trial" meaning the jury.

[Bellaboo]

So many in Cyberland was so busy playing cheering games and making jokes, that I think a larger part of reality is just hitting them now that they wouldnt deal with at the time. Perhaps that is our modern day detriment on trials? Good and bad come in other words. The bad can influence in ways we can't yet measure.

I have a theory the way the lynch mob cheering style blind eyes have formed, we have gone backwards and will have to somehow recoup and change our cyber behaviors. I don't see that happening any time soon!

Take for instance the jurors. Some even treat it as a game and give them names. Names that might even be offensive to the juror themselves. Maybe a juror might not appreciate being called "grandpa" or whatever. Why not respect them, respect our system enought to simply refer to them by the common respectful uniform use of by number? Or reporting how one feels sure they will make foreman, basically watching them for the def even! Reporting who is taking the most notes etc. Interesting, entertaining for us, but, what 'damage' is it doing in the long run?

Then add in the wild theories, hate rants, death threats, people injecting themselves left and right. All things that greatly influence and thereby leave a potential to backfire. Even the newest crazy version out of JA - the Hitchcock shit, stemmed from web chatter and gave her the idea.

My theory has been watching this occur for some time and I think a part of what we saw in the Anthony case is an example of a terrible effect of this modern mode of turning trials into games and being the eyes and pulse for the lawyers. There you saw a Judge more concerned with the donut of the day and movie night for Christ's sake! Yet people still wave a flag like that made him a hero.

So ask yourself, is it possible the hero worship of JM had him over confident? Did the watchful eyes reporting help the def 'target' jurors? One question we know has been answered is, cyberland gave the killer ideas and plenty of attention to her art market.

You are so eloquent. I do think that sensational cases have become entertainment. The last case I followed was the Simspon case and that was a circus resulting in an outrageous verdict. I remember the Manson case and thought the prosecutor Bugliosi was brilliant. And I would answer yes to the question of the watching eyes helping defense target jurors. I do not think Juan was overconfident but he made some strategic moves that may not have been the best ones in hindsight. You have been most helpful in providing links as well as your perspective. Thank you

[coconut]

She is getting those ideas from visitors, Donovan or whomever she is in contact with on the outside. I was also pointing out that she is a witness and should be held to all the previous admonitions that every other witness or juror in the case have been held to.

Many defendants are not even in custody (out on bail) during trial. So Jodi is actually at a massive disadvantage in how much she can interact with others that could help her (friends, investigators, etc) without scrutiny.

[faq_q]

Many defendants are not even in custody (out on bail) during trial. So Jodi is actually at a massive disadvantage in how much she can interact with others that could help her (friends, investigators, etc) without scrutiny.

True but most are not involved in murder cases where they admit killing someone...just saying.

[dizzyp]

oh god - i have hln on in the background - and the just pronounced salinas as sal-line-us - like the peanuts character linus

John Steinbeck is rolling over in his grave a few weeks ago they pronounced Yreka like Eureka-- (where I used to live )