Deorr Kunz Jr (2) Missing Timber Creek Campground at Stone Reservoir Lemhi County

[Boston Babe 73]

The whole Brendan Dassey thing really highlights the challenges of interviewing someone with a lower IQ. But in this case I don't get the impression anyone in LE was trying to goad Isaac into anything. So I agree...very interesting.

Also I had been really skeptical earlier about why this guy would have been friends with great-grandpa...but now I can kind of see it.

Brendan was EXACTLY who I thought of when I watched it, but the same thought as you. Brendan was clearly led and otherwise answered truthfully. I couldn't compare the two instances because with Brendan they were molding him to answer the way they wanted (needed) him to whereas with Isaac, he was given free reign.

I really hope this is solved and it sounds like they're close. The second PI seems to be heading closer to home with his interviews. We'll see.

[Angiebla]

I just read the reason the reason for a change in the course of the investigation is because the FBI and behavior analysts results were just sent to the sheriff. He gave them in opportunity to clear the air, and they stopped talking.

Also the period of time when they weren't sure of his whereabouts changed from 17 minutes to 4 hours.

I knew in the beginning Isaac and grandpa didn't have anything to do with the disappearance. I'm glad Isaac lawyered up, he needed to.

[Angiebla]

Welp I guess I was wrong about GGP. Apparently Isaac came foreward with info. This is from the 2nd PI:

[TupeloHoney]

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/03...eorrs-body-is/

KUNZ INVESTIGATOR: JESSICA MITCHELL KNOWS WHERE DEORR?S BODY IS

Philip Klein, a private investigator hired by the extended family of missing toddler DeOrr Kunz Jr., announced Monday that he believes the child was intentionally or accidentally killed while on a camping trip with his parents. He also said (Vernal) DeOrr Kunz, DeOrr?s father, Jessica Mitchell, DeOrr?s mother, and Robert Walton, DeOrr?s grandfather, know more than they are saying about the child?s disappearance.

Klein spoke with EastIdahoNews.com reporter Nate Eaton on Tuesday and revealed new information about his civil investigation. Below is a transcript of the conversation.

EastIdahoNews.com reached out to Lemhi County Chief Deputy Steve Penner, the leader criminal investigator in the case. He declined to comment on Klein?s claims and stressed his department is focused on solving this case.

The Lemhi County Sheriff?s Office has named (Vernal) DeOrr Kunz and Jessica Mitchell as suspects in DeOrr?s disappearance, but they have not been criminally charged.

EastIdahoNews.com reached out to Kunz and Mitchell Tuesday afternoon for comment. Kunz said Klein?s statements are ?ridiculous? and referred us to his attorney, who issued this statement.

Nate Eaton, EastIdahoNews.com reporter: Last night you announced you had completed the third phase of your investigation in the disappearance of DeOrr Kunz Jr. Explain what that means.

Philip Klein, Klein Investigations: There were three phases to this investigation so far.

First, we wanted to start the investigation from the ground up. We didn?t want influence from law enforcement, we didn?t want influence from family, we didn?t want influence from anybody. All we knew was there were four people on a mountain and a child went missing.

We went back and rebuilt this case from ground zero. We interviewed probably over 150 witnesses and followed up on, I think, 300 tips.

We have declared it now an accidental death/homicide and we?ve based it on a few things.

I want to go over those things very clearly because there?s a lot of public conjecture at this point.

I want to announce for the first time we, law enforcement and the FBI have interviewed Vernal Kunz (DeOrr Sr.), the father of DeOrr, nine times. He?s been given nine interviews and none of the stories he has told has matched or even been verified.

That is very disturbing for us as investigators. He?s given us a story, and when we go out and try to prove up simple things on the timeline it falls apart quickly.

Eaton: Can you give us examples of the inconsistencies?

Klein: We can?t even match simple things like filling up with gas at a diesel store in Leadore on the day of the event. He clearly says that the gentleman who was pumping the gas actually saw the child. We interviewed the guy who had supposedly seen the child and he comes back and says, ?I don?t remember seeing a child.?

Simple things like a dog in the back of the pickup ? there was no dog.

Little things that investigators look at as simple things Vernal has not been able to verify with us.

As for Jessica, she has given five interviews to law enforcement and none of the stories she?s given us matched. In fact, she changes her story depending upon what day it is and what day we talk with her.

That?s very disturbing to us. We can?t even verify basic information that Vernal tells us and neither of their stories match. It?s not even close, as a matter of fact.

Eyewitnesses that they have listed ? from guys that distribute the beer to the clerk at the store to the person that pumped the gas to the basic timeline information ? Vernal and Jessica tell us one story but then the witnesses say no, that never happened. Here?s what did happen.

So we take all of that and we come back to them with, ?OK, tell us what really happened because all these witnesses you have given us, they don?t match.?

And so they tell us the story and again. We go out and we try to reverify with different witnesses. Then, in some cases, some say, ?We don?t even know who these people are. Who are you talking about??

Not only that, it comes down to simple things like they played with DeOrr at the store. We talked to the witnesses before and after who didn?t even see a child (in the store).

It brings concern to us and brings us to the question of why would they lie to us? Why would they not just tell us the truth?

We add that Vernal has gone in for five polygraph tests from different polygraph test administers ? state, local and federal government. Vernal not only failed all five but he failed all five in the 99th percentile. That is hugely disturbing to us.

He can?t even pass a non-control question like, ?Are you gonna tell us the truth today?? He flunks it and not only does he flunk it, he doesn?t just spike in his polygraph test, it?s like a wave. That disturbs us tremendously.

Then we move to Jessica. Law enforcement gives Jessica four different tests. Jessica failed not only to the 99th percentile but she can?t pass simple control questions.

That?s not because she?s nervous. She?s able to pass her name, she?s able to pass where she is today, she?s able to pass the certain questions that are no-brainer questions, but doesn?t even come close to what happened to DeOrr or, ?Are you going to tell the truth today?? She fails so bad that in my 26 years, I?ve never heard of a person failing that bad.

Today we?re going to announce that there was a cadaver dog interaction with certain equipment at the site and that cadaver dog did hit positive. I can?t go any further than that other than we do have a dog that did hit in the initial two weeks of the primary investigation.

Eaton: This wasn?t up at the reservoir concerning the cremains? (Law enforcement had previously announced cremains were dumped into the reservoir around the time of DeOrr?s disappearance, but said they were unrelated to this case.)

Klein: I?m not going to discuss where it was or the circumstances around it because it will be an integral part of the prosecution, and I don?t want to the hurt the prosecution, but a cadaver dog did hit. That has never been announced before, but we?re announcing it today because we feel the public needs to know.

I?m also going to announce to you today that Jessica herself has told investigators on our team she knows where the body is but she will not go all the way and finish her story.

This has been very disturbing to us. We have attempted to work with Jessica tremendously. We have offered to fly her to Texas to give her the opportunity to get away from Idaho because she?s scared of some situations.

I believe some of it is paranoia that has set into her at this point because she knows the walls are closing in around her but I will announce today that Jessica has told our investigators that she knows where the body is, but she won?t go all the way and say more.

That is a huge piece of evidence in this case and we?re very concerned about it. We?ve asked Jessica privately, and now we?re asking her publicly to come in and tell law enforcement about what happened.

Also today we are willing to announce that in our interviews with the grandfather, he did admit to investigators that he believes there was an accident. He will not go all the way and tell the complete truth at this time.

We are willing to announce that Isaac Reinwand has given us some statements that we are vetting at this time. As soon as we?re done vetting those statements, there there may be a further announcement from law enforcement.

Eaton: When Jessica says she knows where the body is, has she given you any suggestions or tips?

Klein: She has broken down in an interview with us, and I understand she?s broken down in an interview with law enforcement, that she does know in fact where the body is.

Eaton: Could she be criminally charged now that she?s admitted that she knows where the body is?

Klein: I?m a civil investigator, but I see a lot of problems for Jessica and Vernal.

First of all they have been lying to federal agents with the FBI and the task force.

The second problem on the table is if it was an accident, there would be some laws regarding what they did what the body, not reporting an accident, those sort of things.

We?re publicly asking Vernal, we?re publicly asking Jessica and we?re publicly asking Jessica?s grandfather, Bob, to let?s bring this to an end.

Enough of lying, enough of trying to mislead investigators, enough of going on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and all these things and trying to mislead the public.

I?m just very frustrated with Vernal, I?m very frustrated with Jessica and I?m very frustrated with their inability to tell the truth.

I?m frustrated with them trying to mislead investigators not only on our side, but FBI, who you don?t mess with, you be honest with them. And then of course to the fine people in Bonneville County and Lemhi County. They are stuck in the middle of this and are trying to just get them to tell the truth.

Eaton: When investigators confront them about their inconsistencies, what?s their response? Do they double down, or does the story change?

Klein: The story changes. They don?t ever double down. It goes off into a world that you ? you know, you can?t be dumb all the time. Even things in the timeline such as where was the blanket, where was the sippy cup ? nobody can tell the truth.

Quite frankly, the stories all break down at 8 o?clock in the morning. The only time their stories are true and correct and we can verify is the night before and then after the 911 call. Everything can not be verified between 8 o?clock in the morning and 2:26 in the afternoon when the 911 call was made ? we can?t verify anything. I mean nothing. Zero. Doughnut hole.

[TupeloHoney]

(CONTINUED)

Eaton: Where does the investigation go from here?

Klein: We’re going to Phase 4 of this case. It’s the actual ground hunt. We know an area that we will be going into. We will probably be up there with different teams within the next 30 days.

We do have those places we’re going to hunt under surveillance to make sure nobody comes in and nobody goes out of those areas.

Eaton: Is there anything you’d like to add?

Klein: The people of Idaho Falls and Lemhi County should be absolutely ecstatic with the law enforcement – from the FBI to the sheriff’s department – these guys are dedicated people.

On behalf of my nine investigators, I’d just like to say thank you to the people of Idaho.

I mostly hope that Vernal and Jessica and their families take a step back. They are very protective over them. They are in denial. You must understand that Vernal’s family and Jessica’s family – they are innocent in this. They are just doing what family members do and they are circling around their loved ones. They are in denial and they need to come out of denial. This is a very, very serious situation.

[luvit]

Original story: The grandfather of missing toddler DeOrr Kunz, Jr. is suing the private investigator he hired to help find the missing toddler.

Dennis DeOrr Kunz's attorney released a document today detailing a lawsuit that was filed today. The attorney, Allen Browning, says in document that the case will seek damages for breach of contract and defamation.

"I am proud to I am being given the opportunity to set the record straight for Vernal DeOrr Kunz and Jessica Mitchell, and to let the public know that they will proceed with legal action against Mr. Klein for making defamatory statements about them," writes Browning.

The announcement of the lawsuit comes just a day after the family informed Klein Investigations and Consulting that they had been fired from the case.

IDAHO FALLS, Idaho (KIFI/KIDK) -
Update 8:15 p.m.: Private investigator Phillip Klein has responded publicly to the letter from the Kunz family attorney. Klein issued the following state on the Klein Investigations and Consulting Facebook page:
This evening I have been forwarded a Press Release from Attorney Allen Browning. He now states he represents Dennis Deorr Kunz, Vernal Deorr Kunz and Jessica Mitchell. In Mr. Browning's two page statement he made some accusations. Publicly, I urge Mr. Browning before he files suit against us - to have a strong heart to heart conversation with his clients. As we have clearly documented, recorded, and saved every portion of the case. I urge him to visit and look at the evidence that has been provided to Law Enforcement before he does anything.

As for the accusations leveled against our firm - we make the following statements :

1) "The Truth is the ultimate defense."

2) Mr. Kunz has not spent any money on this case - the public has and a family member who made contact with our firm in tears and anger today has.

3) Mr. Kunz was fully informed that as a part of his contract with us - our firm would retain full control over the media relations. Today we release this letter to you the public.

4) Last Mr. Browning made some very serious statements regarding me and myself violating the law by "giving legal advice." This evening I have reviewed - and my legal counsel has reviewed the audio recording of the event Mr. Browning misstates. The events that are described by Mr. Browning on January 27, 2016 are not factual. In fact the meeting Mr. Browing references was a family meeting and briefing to which Vernal was not invited nor was Mr. Browning. Clearly, and without a doubt, Mr. Brownings statement is incorrect. I publicly ask Mr. Browning to retract his statement.

I further want to state publicy that I do not believe Mr. Browning is making these statements in any manner other than what his client at the time told him. I believe Mr. Browning is being misled. Again, the recording of the meeting and the description of the event Mr. Browning has described are not even close. We will reach out to Mr. Browning in the next 24 hours to provide him a copy of the recording before he files any suit. Again, we do not believe Mr. Browning is making his statements with anything other than misinformation by his clients. He has an obligation to do his duty to investigate before filing a suit. We again will reach out to him tomorrow.

We thank the public for their support. We will announce shortly our continued commitment to this case for finding baby DeOrr which has been our goal since day one.
IDAHO FALLS, Idaho (KIFI/KIDK) -
Update 8:15 p.m.: Private investigator Phillip Klein has responded publicly to the letter from the Kunz family attorney. Klein issued the following state on the Klein Investigations and Consulting Facebook page:

http://www.localnews8.com/news/kunz-...gator/38328094

[missbad]

Parents speak out after being named suspects in son's disappearance

Video at link:
http://abc6onyourside.com/news/natio...-disappearance

IDAHO FALLS, Idaho (KIFI/KIDK) -- The parents of a missing two-year-old Idaho boy denied any involvement in their toddler's disappearance in their first statements since they were named suspects in January.

In an interview with CNN Newsource affiilates KIFI/KIDK, Jessica Mitchell and Vernal Kunz discussed the hardships they've endured over the past eight months since they reported their son DeOrr missing from Timber Creek Campground in Leadore, 120 miles northwest of their Idaho Falls home.

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman named them suspects in his disappearance saying the couple know more than what they've stated about what happened to their son.

The couple said DeOrr was left with a trusted adult at the campground, but when they got back he was gone.

Since the toddler has been reported missing, Mitchell and Kunz say they've received daily threats from people presuming their son is dead.

They added the public belief in their guilt has also hindered the search to find him where Mitchell said "someone could have easily walked past him in a store."

The story has made national headlines after being featured in news entities like People magazine and on the Nancy Grace Show.

[Angiebla]

The FBI, sheriff and LE wouldn't name them suspects for no reason. I guess they did this interview to throw the great grandpa under the bus again

[WooFrigginHoo]

Grandma of missing toddler DeOrr Kunz spoke exclusively with Chelsea Brentzel.

The boy disappeared from Timber Creek Campground near Leadore July 10.

She explains what she remembers from that day.

video at link
http://www.localnews8.com/news/exten...nz-jr/39482978

[Angiebla]

The grandmother wasn't even there that day until "after" he went "missing". What she has to say is irrelevant, though I do feel sorry for her.

[Angiebla]

The PI Klein is doing a search right now of the campground. They are using an experienced cadaver dog:

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/06...ce-deorr-case/

I wasn't sure how I felt about Klein before, but I saw him on a new show called The Hunt with John Walsh, and he seems pretty credible.

[TupeloHoney]

Jessica and Daddy Deorr broke up, and she's already married to some other dude. Apparently she married him six weeks after meeting him.

[songbirdsong]

Jessica and Daddy Deorr broke up, and she's already married to some other dude. Apparently she married him six weeks after meeting him.

Dayum. That makes me think they're equally guilty, otherwise one of them would have thrown the other under the bus by now. Because you know that was not a friendly parting of ways.

[Angiebla]

Jessica and Daddy Deorr broke up, and she's already married to some other dude. Apparently she married him six weeks after meeting him.

That's crazy. I really hope they find Deorr

[Angiebla]

It's been 1 whole year since Deorr went missing

Sheriff Bowerman seems to think this case is looking more and more like a homicide. It's going to be tough to prove with all the time that has passed.

[bermstalker]

IDAHO FALLS ? He was the only non-family member on a camping trip when a 2-year-old boy disappeared in Lemhi County one year ago. Now, Isaac Reinwand is sharing more details about what he says happened the day the child vanished.

Reinwand recently sat down with EastIdahoNews.com for an extensive interview about his experience at Timber Creek Campground in Leadore.

Reinwand was at the campsite when DeOrr Kunz Jr. vanished July 10, 2015.

DeOrr?s parents, Jessica Mitchell and Vernal DeOrr Kunz, were also there along with Robert ?Bob? Walton, Mitchell?s grandfather.

Reinwand says Walton, Mitchell, Kunz and young DeOrr arrived at his home on the afternoon of July 9, 2015.

?There were two trucks. Bob showed up first and then everyone else showed up,? Reinwand says. ?Bob had been my friend for over five years, but it was the first time I?d ever seen the others.?

Reinwand says DeOrr was in a child?s seat in the back of Kunz?s truck.

?He seemed just like a normal, happy outgoing kid,? Reinwand recalls.
Reinwand and Walton rode together to Timber Creek Campground and by the time they arrived, it was almost dark.

?I set up camp and helped start a fire,? Reinwand says. ?We set everything up and Bob slept in his camper. I slept in a tent. Jessica, (Vernal) DeOrr and the baby slept in the back of Bob?s blue Blazer.?

The next morning, July 10, Reinwand recalls seeing DeOrr as the group ate breakfast. The child was wearing large cowboy boots and ?clumping around? the campsite.
?He was playing and trying to throw stuff in the fire. His dad got after him for it but he was just like a normal 2-year-old,? Reinwand says.

After breakfast, Reinwand says he went back to sleep in his tent. He woke up around noon as Mitchell and Kunz were leaving camp.

?Jessica and baby DeOrr and his dad were heading to the store to see if they could get some gas,? Reinwand says.

The group went to the Stage Stop Junction store in Leadore, about a 30 minute drive on rocky terrain from Timber Creek Campground.

While they were gone, Reinwand says Walton took him around to various fishing holes near the campsite.

A short time later, Kunz, Mitchell and DeOrr returned. Walton suggested that Reinwand show them a nearby fishing hole.

?I went to show Jessica where the fishing hole was and I assumed DeOrr and his dad were right behind me,? Reinwand remembers. ?I thought we were going as a group.?
Reinwand recalls arriving at the fishing spot 300 to 400 feet from the campsite. Mitchell was with him, but Reinwand says Kunz and DeOrr were not. He assumed they were lagging behind.

Reinwand says he then went to a different part of the creek to fish by himself.

?I was down there fishing for a while and that?s when I noticed Bob was on the ridge pacing back and forth,? Reinwand says. ?I asked him what was going on and he said, ?Little DeOrr is missing,? and I was like, ?What???

Reinwand says Walton appeared stressed and worried.

?I walked up to the bank and I talked to Bob a little bit more about where DeOrr might be,? Reinwand says. ?We looked in the camper, we looked all around the area and underneath the vehicles. I went up in the hills to where the reservoir was and looked around.?

Reinwand says he spent 30 minutes trying to find DeOrr. Walton, Kunz and Mitchell were also searching the area surrounding the campground.

?(Mitchell) was out in the sagebrush looking,? Reinwand says. ?She came back to camp and I talked to her a little bit. She seemed pretty upset.?

Reinwand assumed DeOrr was lost and the child was sitting down somewhere.

Mitchell and Kunz called 911 and rescue crews arrived. Reinwand recalls thinking about DeOrr as he tried to fall asleep that night.

?I was wondering where he was, if he?s cold, if he?s going to be sick, if he?s OK,? Reinwand says. ?The last time I saw him he was having fun like a normal 2-year-old. He was doing his thing, exploring and looking at different things.?

Now, one year later, Reinwand has had a lot of time to reflect on the events of that fateful camping trip.

He says it?s possible an accident happened and DeOrr died, but he doesn?t believe Walton had anything to do with it.

?I don?t think Bob could hurt someone,? Reinwand says. ?He had a hard time getting around with his oxygen tank.?

Reinwand says investigators were interested in a shovel Walton had with him at the campsite.

?Bob always carried a shovel around with him in his camper or in his Blazer,? Reinwand says. ?That was a normal thing he carried with him most of the time.?

Lemhi County Sheriff Chief Deputy Steve Penner tells EastIdahoNews.com the shovel was one of numerous items detectives have focused on during their investigation and there was nothing abnormal about it.

Reinwand says he has ?nothing to hide? and feels people have misjudged him even though he has been cooperative with law enforcement.

?I felt that I was being scapegoated or maybe partially accused,? Reinwand says, noting that he hasn?t spoken with Kunz or Mitchell since the camping trip.

?Bob has come around a few times, Reinwand says. ?He seems to be doing OK.?

Reinwand says he?s unsure if the case will ever be solved, but he is hopeful.

?I hope he?s found,? Reinwand says. ?People need closure.?

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07...disappearance/

[Angiebla]

I don't know how I missed this when it came out:

http://www.ktvb.com/mb/news/toy-cars...case/275711120

It basically says the toy cars and jacket Deorr Jr. was supposedly last seen with were found in a property the parents had been evicted from.

[Deviant Toaster]

I don't know how I missed this when it came out:

http://www.ktvb.com/mb/news/toy-cars...case/275711120

It basically says the toy cars and jacket Deorr Jr. was supposedly last seen with were found in a property the parents had been evicted from.

uh oh!

[Boston Babe 73]

I don't know how I missed this when it came out:

http://www.ktvb.com/mb/news/toy-cars...case/275711120

It basically says the toy cars and jacket Deorr Jr. was supposedly last seen with were found in a property the parents had been evicted from.

The six page document also states that KIC "cannot find any person that saw the child go up the mountain either the day of the event - or the evening before" and "therefore are moving our timeline of events back to 5 p.m. the day before the 911 call was made."

[Angiebla]

Yeah I remember you said that he wasn't at the campground at the very beginning.

I'm so confused because Klein made it seem like Isaac was being truthful, and did see Deorr at the campground that day. Klein is making some serious accusations, but the sheriff is says it looks like a homicide now. So I'm confused as fuck.

Here's an article about the sheriff saying he suspects it's a homicide: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07...ards-homicide/

[bermstalker]

Yeah I remember you said that he wasn't at the campground at the very beginning.

I'm so confused because Klein made it seem like Isaac was being truthful, and did see Deorr at the campground that day. Klein is making some serious accusations, but the sheriff is says it looks like a homicide now. So I'm confused as fuck.

Here's an article about the sheriff saying he suspects it's a homicide: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07...ards-homicide/

Yeah, I'm confused with ya.
In the interview I posted above with Issac- he does seem truthful.
If the little boy was never at the campgrounds that means all these adults were in on this. I just don't see why Issac wouldn't say anything if he knew something, especially considering he's a suspect. From his interview- he actually sounds like me when I'm with my friends and their kids. Basically I know they're there, but I don't really pay attention to them. I assume their parents are watching them.

[pinkhair4me]

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=44368994&nid=1418

The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children Age-progressed photo of missing Idaho toddler released

The mom has already admitted that she knows where his little body is hidden��. That makes the age-progressed photo more sad, like " if this two-year-old had lived, he might look like this today."

[Words Words]

The mom has already admitted that she knows where his little body is hidden��.

she has? I must have missed that...

[Boston Babe 73]

she has? I must have missed that...

Yeah, I missed this too. Do you have a link, Pink? (That rhymes so well lol)

[Angiebla]

I don't think she came out and said she knew where he was, just failed that question on the lie detector test.