Kendrick Johnson (17) Dies after getting trapped in gym mats

[PunkerDuckie]

Holy angry Morbid

[morbidT]

I disagree with the parents seeing dollar signs. Everytime I have seen the father speak about this he has said that someone needs to be in jail. Today he went farther and said that if someone is covering this up, they need to be in jail. He speaks about wanting justice for his son.

Listening to the reports, the cause of death was supposed to be suffocation and they are asking why was there not petechia (sorry if I misspelled) in his eyes? As for disposing of internal organs, I can see how this would happen but in a case where there is a possible homicide or suspicious death? In that case shouldn't more care be taken ?

The black and orange shoe that has a substance that appears to be blood but they say was not so was not collected - did they test the shoe right there in the gym? How did they eliminate that it was blood without taking it to the lab? Why didn't they try to determine who that shoe belonged to?
Ditto with the gray sweatshirt, there is something on the sleeve why was it not collected as evidence?
The blood streaks on the wall, they said they are not Kendricks then whose are they and when did they get there? I don't believe that they would be there for a long period of time unless there janitorial crews are as inept as the police appear to be.
The sheriff was very friendly with the CNN reporter until he found out he was there to discuss this case and then he became very hostile. This may have been a freak accident but they have cameras that show Kendrick walking into the gym, there were four cameras in that gym, why not release all of the video and put the matter to rest?

The whole thing stinks

Yes, I hear the parents say "someone needs to go to jail" but not the "murderer." I don't see that as justice. I see a murderer going to jail as justice. The parents aren't seeking a murderer.

The COD is positional asphyxiation. I do not remember if it was said there was no petechiae present in his eyes. Although, petechiae does not have to be present it is a big indicator or some type of loss of oxygen to the brain.

Many people come through the ME's office daily that are are suspicious, possible homicide, suicide, BFT, etc. I'm sure each case is treated equally; with extra care.

Crime scene investigators can determine if a substance is blood on the scene.

Blood on gym wall. Every kid in the school will need to be swabbed to determine who's blood it is (and it may not be a students). I am not surprised there was blood found in an athletic complex such as a gym.

I didn't like the aggressiveness of the sheriff's office, but I can certainly understand the frustration of the office from the allegations and accusations.

I'd like to see the video too.

I initially thought "freak accident" but now I'm not so sure...if it was a murder, though, I doubt it's a huge ass cover-up on the part of LE/Medical people. More likely everyone is embarrassed by their fuckup investigation and the fact that they might never find out who (if anyone) did it. That would explain why the sheriff was so pissed -- the whole country knows how inept his team is.

Then again, I can't imagine a high school kid getting away with murder. Kids talk. Surely someone would have said or head something.



Thank you for explaining the paper stuffing thing. Like you said, there are all kinds of things we don't/shouldn't know about what happens to our bodies. I guess in any profession people cut corners (JC Penney ad vs. trifold), it's just that in this particular one their work stays 6 feet under 99 percent of the time. So yeah, the paper isn't cover-up material, but it still sucks for his family. Questions: 1)Would the organs of someone who died of positional asphyxia appear any different from those of someone who died of bft to the neck? and 2)Would you still have that horrid skin slippage if someone was killed by BFT immediately before being moved in to that position?

I don't agree with your parents-as-golddiggers assessment, though. The media got started on the whole shoe thing, and it's natural that a reporter would ask his parents' opinion on it. So yeah, they're pissed about the shoe.

They used their donations and borrowed money to have him exhumed and hire a medical examiner...NOT cheap. It's not like they took the money and jetted off to the Bahamas like George and Cindy Anthony. Also, you'd have to be the fucking shittiest parent in the world to hold up a sign bearing with your son's disfigured face as part of a get rich scheme. Jesus, it broke my heart to see pics of my daughter with a broken finger.

They've been very active in demonstrations and protests; at one point they were both arrested in a nonviolent demonstration.

It does suck for family when they find out what happens "behind the scenes" I guess you could say. Death is a part of life, though, and that is something many people don't/won't think about. Nobody wants to think about their body being cut up on.

1) I really think that is determined by if the neck is where the "kink" was. I think there would be a lot of "bruising" where the kink is. If someone died in this "V" position (like being folded up in a lawn chair, which has happened) I would suspect bruising on the bottom with a lot of blood pooling towards that area on the bottom. In this position, I would suspect the organs, or some, would still have blood in them.

In someone stuck upside down, I suspect there to be little to no blood in the organs or lower body. I expect it all to follow gravity and that was this kid's head. There are 5 orifices ( 7 if you count eye sockets, which eyes do get pushed out) in our heads, the fluid is going to spill out.

There would be "bruising" to the affected area of the neck if it were BFT (and probably tissue, muscular, vascular, and other structure tears. that's what I would expect with BFT). If the person was hanging upside down, I suspect the organs to appear the same.

2) Yes, I think it is reasonable to expect the skin slippage.

I do see where you are going with this and I love that you are taking things into consideration. I see some things that would probably make me consider something hokey if I didn't know to look for other things. One of the biggest "other things" for me is if there is an actual injury to the neck structures and not just the "bruising." The bruising is probably; lividity, where the kink is, where that area was resting on the mat, an injury that is reasonably incurred by oneself trying to escape the position they are in.

These are the things I'm taking into consideration to come to my conclusion. *Here's my clause for the moron of the board*

The shoe was just an analogy for many things. Not just the shoe. They are raising cane over these things but not raising cane over finding the so called murderer. Why aren't they pissed about that? That the cops aren't looking for their kid's killer?

I know having a body exhumed is expensive and also to pay people to be a part of the examination. That doesn't mean they aren't looking for a payout. I'm sure it was horrifying for the parents to see what their son looked like. My problem with these parents is at first they were comparing their kid to Trayvon Martin and people are killing the young black men AND that they are not demanding a hunt for the murderer. These are two very big red flags for me. With that I am still standing by my opinion that the parents are looking for a payday.

I am very happy to see they have changed their minds about the race thing. Unfortunately, they are not making as big a loud noise as they did when they were making the accusations. It is still out there on the internet; FB pages, twitter, and what ever to fight for justice for this kid because of a hate crime. Again, that's unfortunate the damage is done, but I am very happy to see they have retracted that.








To both of you......


I hope I have answered your questions to where you understand what I mean. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just to clarify for Ron and crickets since they seem to get confused on what a discussion is.

[morbidT]

Holy angry Morbid

I know, right?!

I have been a very staunch supporter of noobs, but this one just irks me sometimes. I've taken a beating in support of noobs; supporting their opinions (even if I don't agree), their personalities, quirks, what have you, but this one just.....ugh.

I like her most times because she is actually very intelligent and I enjoy learning from her, but, gawwwwwd, sometimes just.....ugh.

She literally ruins threads for me and I stop going in them completely. I don't return like Ron does.

This thread is being ruined because many people actually want to have a discussion and no one is nit picking like she is. Not even Ron.

The truth of the matter is I can go into another thread and have a great exchange with her. I won't hold a grudge against her and take it to other threads, UNLESS she's a dick, then it's game on again. lol

I can have a, somewhat, heated discussion with other posters in one thread and move to another and be all kissy face with them. Amirite, ani?


/end rant let's get back to KJ.

[bermstalker]

Thanks for the explanation about organ parts, Morbid.

Now I know to say in my will " I want my god damn body organs (except the ones I donate) and DON"T slop my stuff in a man 'o bucket"


I don't know anything about body parts and whatnots, but I do remember the M. Ingram case and her whole autopsy report. They removed most of her organs. They still had traces of some of the organs b/c it was retested a year later- even tho morgan was cremated. (If I remember correctly) The crazy mom updated not to long ago and said they came up with enough money to get another testing done of the piece that was left. I do remember mom being pissed b/c somebody threw away some of the organs or whatever parts.

[morbidT]

Thanks for the explanation about organ parts, Morbid.

Now I know to say in my will " I want my god damn body organs (except the ones I donate) and DON"T slop my stuff in a man 'o bucket"


I don't know anything about body parts and whatnots, but I do remember the M. Ingram case and her whole autopsy report. They removed most of her organs. They still had traces of some of the organs b/c it was retested a year later- even tho morgan was cremated. (If I remember correctly) The crazy mom updated not to long ago and said they came up with enough money to get another testing done of the piece that was left. I do remember mom being pissed b/c somebody threw away some of the organs or whatever parts.

Most states expect the families to inquire if their loved one is making it out of the morgue with all their gizzards. So if you really don't want your guts in a pan, I would make sure your family knows your wishes and make sure they read the consent form. Also, if a family ever had any issues with our consent, we typically crossed out what they didn't like, initialed it, it was transcribed into the pathology report, and we all went on with our lives. Well, except for the dead relative. Pathologists aren't going to fight hard. They know it is a very difficult time for families. They may just take additional sections for future use (just in case the micro comes back as questionable) and put the organ, what's left, in the gut bag (that's what we called them) to be returned to the body. The brain is going to be a bigger fight. It really does need to ferment for a week or two in order to get the best results possible.

The issue is also not that morgues won't give organs back. The issue is pathology reports take several weeks to become finalized and most people don't want to or can't keep their loved one in a fridge for that long so they can have a funeral with all the organs.

Also, you are correct regarding MI. I believe the original histology cassettes were used to provide a second micro analysis. It came from the same piece of organ, just at a different time. Those cassettes are logged, filed, and stored for a number of years before they are then dumped in the biohazard container with guts and moles.



Then it's processed into paraffin blocks.



Then it's sliced on a machine that reminds me of a lunch meat slicer. A thin layer of the paraffin, with specimen in it, is placed on a microscope slide and that is how you are able to see the tissue under a microscope.

Video at link.

http://protocolsonline.com/histology...echniquevideo/

[blighted star]

I guess a lot of high school kids have really paid attention to this case. A lot of vids are from kids - at least one from his own school who talks about the day it happened & how he was found. I'll try & find it again, in the meantime, these kids did an experiment -




ETA This isn't making the news down here at all so I've just seen the footage you guys have probably already seen. I see my question about the shoe has been well & truly covered. Having actually seen just how spotlessly clean the white stripes are on this shoe that supposedly lay directly below a shower of body fluids, I'm now 100% in the "no fucking way is this not suss" camp. Because seriously. There is just no fucking way.

& if the shot taken of that shoe is supposed to be in situ? (& it must be because who the fuck moves an item at a crime scene & sits it on a bloodstain before photographing it) Pfft. It's the most common fuckup in staged crime scenes. In the panic to cover up quickly they forget the bloodstain has to be on top of evey object - not under it.

There's other details that are debatable for sure, but that image of that clean shoe sitting ON a mess of pooled body fluids cannot be argued away. No way. No how.

[songbirdsong]

ETA This isn't making the news down here at all so I've just seen the footage you guys have probably already seen. I see my question about the shoe has been well & truly covered. Having actually seen just how spotlessly clean the white stripes are on this shoe that supposedly lay directly below a shower of body fluids, I'm now 100% in the "no fucking way is this not suss" camp. Because seriously. There is just no fucking way.

& if the shot taken of that shoe is supposed to be in situ? (& it must be because who the fuck moves an item at a crime scene & sits it on a bloodstain before photographing it) Pfft. It's the most common fuckup in staged crime scenes. In the panic to cover up quickly they forget the bloodstain has to be on top of evey object - not under it.

There's other details that are debatable for sure, but that image of that clean shoe sitting ON a mess of pooled body fluids cannot be argued away. No way. No how.

This is a stupid question, but how much blood could this poor guy's hair soak up? Kid had a lot of hair. I imagine the amount and position of the pooled blood would be different than what you would see on, say, someone with very short hair. Dunno.

Also, glad I'm an organ donor. My guts will be coddled and put to good use -- or at least that's what I want to believe.

[Shins]

As I think most people would if their profession, or something very close to it, was in the spotlight.

AYE AYE, CAP'N.

:salute:

[blighted star]

This is a stupid question, but how much blood could this poor guy's hair soak up? Kid had a lot of hair. I imagine the amount and position of the pooled blood would be different than what you would see on, say, someone with very short hair. Dunno.

Also, glad I'm an organ donor. My guts will be coddled and put to good use -- or at least that's what I want to believe.

Yeah, the length would make a difference to the pattern of pooling, but it couldn't stop the blood/fluids that were dripping off onto the floor from first hitting the shoe sitting right in the centre of the area of pooling. There's nothing on that shoe. It's pristine - it should be a revolting mess.

They're also mentioning his notebooks/texts. They're definitely items that were in his possession when he entered the gym because apparently he's seen carrying them into the gym on the security vid. Instead of being found placed together, as you would expect if he'd calmly put them down in order to retrieve a shoe, they were strewn around the gym, far apart.

The notebooks could just be shoddy scene protection, maybe they were kicked around in the panic after he was found. But that shoe places the entire police version of events into question. The only way they can explain him accidentally falling in is if his shoe fell in first. If that happend the shoe had to be below him inside the mat. If it was there below him in that tiny confined space, gravity dictates that long hair, short hair, no hair - if an object lies between dripping fluid & the floor, it's going to hit the object first & not the floor beneath it.

If that shoe's not soaked in body fluids, it wasn't beneath KJ. If that shoe wasn't beneath KJ he can't have climbed in to get it.

Unless it's the wrong shoe? But if it is, where's the one he was reaching for & who decided to move a clean shoe into the middle of a pool of body fluids. & why?


ETA. but guys, if I'm missing something that explains it tell me??? It's bugging me now. It seems too obvious so I'm wondering if there's something I failed to consider??

[TupeloHoney]

On the newspaper: Was the body stuffed with the Macon Telegraph (GBI) or the Valdosta Daily Times (funeral home)? Bam. Solved.

On the "clean" black and white shoe: If that shoe was indeed under Kendrick in the mat, there's no way it WASN'T moved when the coach started moving and turning over mats. *Maybe* the clean side of the shoe was pressed up against the mat and it was knocked over on its side during all the movement ... it kind of looks like it dragged through the blood a little, too.

I posted some snippets from this story -- http://valdostadailytimes.com/local/...mobRedir=false -- a number of pages ago. This quote from Sheriff Chris Prine stands out to me:

"Imagine the coach, these kids are saying there's a kid in there," said Edwards. "OK, so the coach goes over and starts pulling all of the mats out. He's determined he's going to get to the young'un. When he flipped the mats over, a shoe and some of Kendrick's books slid off the top of the mat. We don't know if he retrieved one shoe and went for the second, but the one shoe and his books all landed in the same area and we have the crime scene pictures. Nothing was touched."

I just think there was so much chaos and moving things around before LE was even there, that it's hard to say what was originally where.

Yes, I hear the parents say "someone needs to go to jail" but not the "murderer." I don't see that as justice. I see a murderer going to jail as justice. The parents aren't seeking a murderer.

The COD is positional asphyxiation. I do not remember if it was said there was no petechiae present in his eyes. Although, petechiae does not have to be present it is a big indicator or some type of loss of oxygen to the brain.

Many people come through the ME's office daily that are are suspicious, possible homicide, suicide, BFT, etc. I'm sure each case is treated equally; with extra care.

Crime scene investigators can determine if a substance is blood on the scene.

Blood on gym wall. Every kid in the school will need to be swabbed to determine who's blood it is (and it may not be a students). I am not surprised there was blood found in an athletic complex such as a gym.

I didn't like the aggressiveness of the sheriff's office, but I can certainly understand the frustration of the office from the allegations and accusations.

I'd like to see the video too.

I agree with this and, as always, appreciate your insight on innards and gizzards and all that :)

I hear "justice" and "foul play" but not "Someone beat my child to death, and there is a dangerous murderer walking the streets." If they have "ideas" about what happened, why not just say so and really ramp up the pressure? I don't get it.

I also find it unreasonable to expect hundreds of people to be DNA tested to determine to source of the blood on the wall. Maybe the reason the cop in the CNN vid says they had reason to believe it had been there for some time is because students/faculty told them so.

My high school was kept quite clean, but I remember a booger that was smeared on a locker near mine that stayed there for what seems like months. At one point, someone circled it with a marker and put an arrow with the word "BOOGER." True story.

I initially thought "freak accident" but now I'm not so sure...if it was a murder, though, I doubt it's a huge ass cover-up on the part of LE/Medical people. More likely everyone is embarrassed by their fuckup investigation and the fact that they might never find out who (if anyone) did it. That would explain why the sheriff was so pissed -- the whole country knows how inept his team is.

Then again, I can't imagine a high school kid getting away with murder. Kids talk. Surely someone would have said or head something.

I think the part about kids talking is very important. Not only do they talk, they can't stfu ... especially these days with social media and all. When this thread was first created, I started digging around to see what students and the local yokels were saying on the internutz. There were rumors about the sheriff's son (who does not exist), but no chatter at all naming any other suspects ... no real names, no nicknames. I find this very telling. The only chatter about anyone having a problem with Kendrick was the fictional sheriff's son ... They were competing for a fictional girl -- a white girl. (GASP!) I certainly didn't get the impression that any REAL people had any beef with Kendrick.

I posted a thread the other day for a teen girl/young man who went missing after being in a car that was involved in a high-speed chase with the cops. The driver is fine and has been charged with nothing. The news stories don't name him, but I didn't have to look far for ALL kinds of stuff about the dude. People love to run their mouths about other people and are not shy about telling everything they know about a suspect -- as well as the suspect's pappy, grandpappy and pee-paw if they've all lived in a small town long enough. (That's always some interesting shit to read!) I'm just not seeing that in this case.

[blighted star]

I'm trying to picture the other side of the shoe facing up & that explaining it, but again - gravity & fluids. They always run down. It doesn't matter which side was up, anything that dripped on it would have to run across the lower side too on it's way to the lowest point - the ground. I really can't see anyway to explain this that doesn't defy basic physics?

[TupeloHoney]

I'm trying to picture the other side of the shoe facing up & that explaining it, but again - gravity & fluids. They always run down. It doesn't matter which side was up, anything that dripped on it would have to run across the lower side too on it's way to the lowest point - the ground. I really can't see anyway to explain this that doesn't defy basic physics?

The mat is 6 feet long -- only a couple inches longer than Kendrick. It's clear from the "feet photo" that he did not die suspended a foot above the ground with blood gushing from every orifice in his head to the floor below. He came to a rest crammed against the floor. It is *possible* that the clean shoe was pressed up against the mat on a side of him that wasn't as bloody and then knocked over into the blood during all the mat moving. I realize we have a lot of holes in our heads, but again, I don't think he was projectiling blood from all of them. It doesn't look like THAT much blood.

[TupeloHoney]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...s-parents-say/

(Oct. 11, 2013-CBS/AP)

GBI spokeswoman Sherry Lang said Thursday that the agency's policy is to return all organs to bodies after autopsies. That's what happened in Johnson's case, she said.

"Those organs were in the body when we sent it back to the funeral home," said Lang, who added that the GBI stands by the conclusions of its autopsy that found no foul play involved.

But Lowndes County Coroner Bill Watson said many of Johnson's organs were deemed too badly decomposed to be preserved and had to be disposed of before the body was sent to the funeral home. "It would've been during or immediately after the autopsy," he said.

Harrington Funeral Home in Valdosta, which handled Johnson's body, referred calls to attorney Roy Copeland. He said Johnson's organs were missing when the body arrived at Harrington. He also said standard embalming practice is to fill empty space in body cavities with material such as sawdust or cotton.

"Is newspaper necessarily more indicting that sawdust or cotton?" Copeland said.

Medical examiners commonly remove internal organs during forensic autopsies. After autopsies, those organs are typically sealed in a plastic bag and placed back in the body, said Vernie Fountain, who runs an embalming school in Springfield, Mo. When organs are missing, such as in cases involving organ donors, space inside the body cavity often is filled with an absorbent, preservative powder, Fountain said. Sometimes cotton is used with powder.

"I don't think I've ever talked to anyone who told me they've used old newspapers," Fountain said. "There may not be any law that prohibits it. I don't know. But it's just not something that's within what I would consider acceptable standards."

The Georgia secretary of state's office, which regulates funeral homes in the states, is investigating how Johnson's body was handled, spokesman Jared Thomas said.

Meanwhile, Johnson's parents are preparing to file a lawsuit asking a judge to order a coroner's inquest in their son's death, said Chevene King, an attorney working with the family. An inquest would present the evidence in Johnson's death in a public hearing, much like a trial. Johnson's parents hope the outcome would be to change the manner of death listed on his death certificate from accidental to homicide -- paving the way to reopen a criminal investigation.

"This can happen to any of our kids," said Kenneth Johnson, the teenager's father. "We just can't allow this to happen again and again and again."

CBS affiliate WCTV reports the family's lawyer is also calling on authorities to release surveillance video that they say could have captured what happened in the gym the day Johnson died.

Johnson's family asked the Justice Department to get involved, arguing that authorities failed to investigate Johnson's death thoroughly because he's black. But the Justice Department found insufficient evidence to support an investigation. U.S. Attorney Michael Moore in Macon has been monitoring the case but has yet to announce whether he'll take any further action. Moore did not immediately return a phone message Thursday.

Watson said he reviewed the second autopsy report on Johnson, but found it vague and lacking the specifics of the GBI's findings.

"I'm terribly sorry for the family," Watson said. "But I don't think raising all this Cain down here is going to bring closure to them."

[Angiebla]

Ok I need to comment on a few things....

1. Thank you for all the info you provided Morbid. Very informative. I don't know why the kids in the article you posted would be shocked about seeing organs of a dead person in a morgue. If they couldn't handle that shit they shouldn't have gone there in the first place.

2. WTF does it matter if you are buried with your organs or not? You will be dead-not using the organs! If you died a suspicious death-or were cremated do people expect them to exhume the damn body every time they want to test something?

3. I'm pretty sure the ME that "spoke out" was saying what the public(or whomever else) wanted to hear. A legit good ME is not going to media-whore-it-up like that.

I dated a guy whose parents owned a funeral home. He told me some interesting things...they sew your eyes shut, stuff your mouth with cotton balls and wire your mouth and jaw shut too. A lot of stuff goes down that people don't know about.

[I doubt it]

My original opinion on this case still stands. The local ME was insulted that the state ME was called in instead of him and made a fuss, upsetting the family. Is he the same guy who did the second autopsy, I don't even care.

The family should have just sued the school for endangering the kid and not missing/finding him sooner.

[*crickets*]

Jesus christ! This is why I "gave what have you" before. You constantly come into threads and do the "opinion stated as fact" when you fucking do it yourself. It's a freaking opinion. Does everyone have to put a *clause before every fucking post to let YOU, specifically because you are the only one I have noticed that does this on the entire board, know a post is opinion? Because you know, on a DISCUSSION board NOTHING can be opinion based? Fuck outta here. It's a god damn discussion board where speculation and opinion take place! What the fuck, dude? You have been reminded of this NUMEROUS times.

First of all, my "opinion stated as fact" comment wasn't even directed at you; it was in response to another member's post:

She said "I suspect." She said it's rhetorical. That's what we do here; give our opinions.

about this:

Also, why would he "admit" to some organs being kept but not all? (rhetorical) Because he's fibbing.

(said about the head of the national ME org's statement to CNN about organs being returned after autopsies.)

You've also accused the family's ME of lying in his autopsy report (or being mistaken, because you somehow know better.)

I was pointing out, in response to the OTHER POSTER, the (non-rhetorical) statements I was talking about. So you see, it's not like I'm galloping in here to challenge you just for the hell of it. As I said, I wasn't even responding to you. I am not the one who brought the fucking topic up, okay?

And no, I have not been "reminded several times" of anything, thank you very much.

[bowieluva]

Ok I need to comment on a few things....

1. Thank you for all the info you provided Morbid. Very informative. I don't know why the kids in the article you posted would be shocked about seeing organs of a dead person in a morgue. If they couldn't handle that shit they shouldn't have gone there in the first place.

2. WTF does it matter if you are buried with your organs or not? You will be dead-not using the organs! If you died a suspicious death-or were cremated do people expect them to exhume the damn body every time they want to test something?

3. I'm pretty sure the ME that "spoke out" was saying what the public(or whomever else) wanted to hear. A legit good ME is not going to media-whore-it-up like that.

I dated a guy whose parents owned a funeral home. He told me some interesting things...they sew your eyes shut, stuff your mouth with cotton balls and wire your mouth and jaw shut too. A lot of stuff goes down that people don't know about.

This case is PRECISELY why it matters that you're buried with organs. While it's not like, super common, bodies are exhumed when law enforcement or in this case, the family, think they may have overlooked something too soon. There's no statute of limitations on homicide.

[hamdinger125]

We also got consent to keep brains on patients with or suspected Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.

Is it weird that I know what that is because of The X-Files? :)

I don't know anything about body parts and whatnots, but I do remember the M. Ingram case and her whole autopsy report. They removed most of her organs. They still had traces of some of the organs b/c it was retested a year later- even tho morgan was cremated. (If I remember correctly) The crazy mom updated not to long ago and said they came up with enough money to get another testing done of the piece that was left. I do remember mom being pissed b/c somebody threw away some of the organs or whatever parts.

The mom originally said that Morgan's "samples were all used up" in the original testing. Then she started asking for donations to cover the cost of storing Morgan's organs or tissues samples or something like that for another year. UGH. Toni.

I don't know why the kids in the article you posted would be shocked about seeing organs of a dead person in a morgue. If they couldn't handle that shit they shouldn't have gone there in the first place.

Because it was their FRIEND. And his brain was LOOKING BACK AT THEM! Sorry, I know I'm a terrible person, but the way they worded that made me laugh.

[Live2Love]

The mat is 6 feet long -- only a couple inches longer than Kendrick. It's clear from the "feet photo" that he did not die suspended a foot above the ground with blood gushing from every orifice in his head to the floor below. He came to a rest crammed against the floor. It is *possible* that the clean shoe was pressed up against the mat on a side of him that wasn't as bloody and then knocked over into the blood during all the mat moving. I realize we have a lot of holes in our heads, but again, I don't think he was projectiling blood from all of them. It doesn't look like THAT much blood.

Wouldn't that mean that he couldn't have kicked off the second pair of shoes that was off to the side?? I feel like there are way too many questions about this case.

[*crickets*]

You're right, there are way too many unanswered questions about this case.

About the shoe--it was too clean to have been under Kendrick's head at the bottom of the mat. Besides the blood, he had also vomited. That shoe would have been covered in blood and vomit.

from an in-depth article about the case, when his body was discovered:

Lowndes High head athletic trainer Philip Pieplow handed out surveys to the students in his Life Sports class that morning. After completing the survey, a girl climbed on top of a set of blue cheerleading mats, which were rolled up and standing vertically in a corner of the gym. Inside one of the mats, she saw two feet. Panicked, she called friends to come and see. They looked at the white socks with gray toes, "Hanes" written across them in red lettering. Someone screamed.

Pieplow sprinted across the room. When he pushed the mats onto their sides, a black male's body from the waist up tumbled out of one of them, along with blood and dreadlocks and vomit. Pieplow backed away. Another coach told the students to leave the gym. Someone--several people--called 911.

read more: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...ldosta-georgia

[morbidT]

First of all, my "opinion stated as fact" comment wasn't even directed at you; it was in response to another member's post:



about this:
(said about the head of the national ME org's statement to CNN about organs being returned after autopsies.)

You've also accused the family's ME of lying in his autopsy report (or being mistaken, because you somehow know better.)

I was pointing out, in response to the OTHER POSTER, the (non-rhetorical) statements I was talking about. So you see, it's not like I'm galloping in here to challenge you just for the hell of it. As I said, I wasn't even responding to you. I am not the one who brought the fucking topic up, okay?

And no, I have not been "reminded several times" of anything, thank you very much.

You've said it several times in previous posts that MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE is not fact. So who cares who you were directing that specific comment towards.

I also provided you an article with a spokesperson from the same organization giving a different statement. Which one is fact? Who's lying? You're dumb.

Who gives a fuck if I'm calling someone a liar, a bullshitter, or if I disagree with them? THAT'S WHAT THE POINT OF A DISCUSSION BOARD IS. How many fucking times does someone need to tell you that? Seriously. I agree with the opposite you do. Get the fuck over it. The M.E. I AGREE with IS ALSO an experienced professional, you nimwit. You also realize just because someone has a title to an organization doesn't mean they are right all the time, right? How many times have you called the CEO/E.D./or what ever is the highest position of your employer a dumbass because of decisions they have made? Your supervisor? Get it?

And yeah, you have been reminded this is not WS several times. I distinctly remember once in the Hannah thread, once in the Wiener thread, and once in the DTTAM thread. FIND THEM. The posts are in black and white on this board.

In closing, just shut up, man. Discuss the case, have an opinion, share a theory, but for the love of everything holy, shut up about your god damn facts!


Back to Disney Princess

This case is PRECISELY why it matters that you're buried with organs. While it's not like, super common, bodies are exhumed when law enforcement or in this case, the family, think they may have overlooked something too soon. There's no statute of limitations on homicide.

Meh...exhumation isn't that common. I couldn't find actual statistics on it, but it happens so infrequently the need just isn't there. Plus, tissue is saved for a certain period of time before it is destroyed. Organs will continue to decomp once buried, so even if an exhumation takes place, it still may not provide any additional information. In a case like this, the question is whether or not there was any trauma to the body, more specifically, the head/neck area. The organs aren't even what is needed with that assessment. In other cases where there is suspected trauma on the body, the tissues will tell the story without the need for the organs.

Is it weird that I know what that is because of The X-Files? :)


Because it was their FRIEND. And his brain was LOOKING BACK AT THEM! Sorry, I know I'm a terrible person, but the way they worded that made me laugh.

HA! No. X-Files was an awesome show.

I lol'd at that statement in the article.

You're right, there are way too many unanswered questions about this case.

About the shoe--it was too clean to have been under Kendrick's head at the bottom of the mat. Besides the blood, he had also vomited. That shoe would have been covered in blood and vomit.

This is exactly what I am talking about. This is opinion stated as fact.

I have no problems with you doing it. My problem is with you bitching about other people doing it when you don't agree with them. I'm speaking of everyone else you do it to, as well.





*************************


I've been really sick so I haven't been on, but I see the discussion in regards to the shoe(s). TH, nice find, and hilarious story! I am not calling shenanigans on blood being found in a gym. I'm sure if they poked around some more they would find more. There was something else I wanted to respond to you about. I thought I clicked on your post to multi, but I guess I didn't. If it comes back to me, I'll post.

I think some of the answers will never be answered because the scene was compromised by the life saving measures of the staff and first responders.

[blighted star]

The mat is 6 feet long -- only a couple inches longer than Kendrick. It's clear from the "feet photo" that he did not die suspended a foot above the ground with blood gushing from every orifice in his head to the floor below. He came to a rest crammed against the floor. It is *possible* that the clean shoe was pressed up against the mat on a side of him that wasn't as bloody and then knocked over into the blood during all the mat moving. I realize we have a lot of holes in our heads, but again, I don't think he was projectiling blood from all of them. It doesn't look like THAT much blood.

Hmm, yeah maybe? This is exactly the kind of thing I was trying (but failing) to think of. Maybe if it ended up behind his head? If the descriptions of his hair being "saturated" were inaccurate it might work? But if his hair, all of it, was soaked, then I'm not sure that could explain it. If it was sitting in the position shown in the pic while he was in the mat, then there should be more on the shoe.

If it was inside the mat, (& it went in before him), but it was moved from it's original position before the pic was taken, it should have left some sort of impression in the pooling on the floor - the space was too confined for it not to be in contact.

The only other way I can think of would be if it was accidentally kicked there during the discovery /rescue attempt, because obviously those photos can't have been taken before they removed him. If that is how it got there though, he can't have been reachng for it & we're back to asking how/why he was in there to begin with (sorry, terrible explanations but it's a little crazy & noisy here & I can't think straight)

Unless they took pix of the left/right & top/bottom of the shoe and the inside of the mat, even L.E will have trouble answering these questions now.

I hate not having a definite answer, I can't imagine how it is for his parents. This would kill me if it was one of my kids. .

[*crickets*]

You've said it several times in previous posts that MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE is not fact. So who cares who you were directing that specific comment towards.

Pleas be specific, which posts are you talking about? Because I really have no idea what you are talking about.

I also provided you an article with a spokesperson from the same organization giving a different statement. Which one is fact? Who's lying? You're dumb.

Who gives a fuck if I'm calling someone a liar, a bullshitter, or if I disagree with them? THAT'S WHAT THE POINT OF A DISCUSSION BOARD IS. How many fucking times does someone need to tell you that? Seriously. I agree with the opposite you do. Get the fuck over it. The M.E. I AGREE with IS ALSO an experienced professional, you nimwit. You also realize just because someone has a title to an organization doesn't mean they are right all the time, right? How many times have you called the CEO/E.D./or what ever is the highest position of your employer a dumbass because of decisions they have made? Your supervisor? Get it?

Name-calling is childish and accomplishes nothing.

And yeah, you have been reminded this is not WS several times. I distinctly remember once in the Hannah thread, once in the Wiener thread, and once in the DTTAM thread. FIND THEM. The posts are in black and white on this board.

Again, no I do not recall being "reminded several times" of anything. You FIND THEM. You're the one making the statement...your job to back it up, not mine.

In closing, just shut up, man. Discuss the case, have an opinion, share a theory, but for the love of everything holy, shut up about your god damn facts!

Uh, no...you do not get to decide who gets to speak in this or any other thread, sorry.

Why are you so invested in this case that you have to lose your shit like this, repeatedly? You have decided that *you* know EXACTLY what happened, based on what? A few photos that have been released to the media, snippets of the autopsy reports and some articles you've read? Have you read the full autopsy reports? Seen the autopsy photos? No, because they have not been released to the public. Your opinions are just that, opinions. No different than anyone else's. All I am doing is asking questions, because there is a lot if shady shit going on in this case. It would be nice if you could control yourself and stop going on rants when someone dares to differ with you.

[*crickets*]

You're right, there are way too many unanswered questions about this case.

About the shoe--it was too clean to have been under Kendrick's head at the bottom of the mat. Besides the blood, he had also vomited. That shoe would have been covered in blood and vomit.

This is exactly what I am talking about. This is opinion stated as fact.

I have no problems with you doing it. My problem is with you bitching about other people doing it when you don't agree with them. I'm speaking of everyone else you do it to, as well.

Once again, no. You neglected to include the article I quoted, and linked to, which is where I got the fact (BBM) from. The rest of my statement is common sense.

[Shins]

Name-calling is childish and accomplishes nothing.

Your statement gives away the fact that you're an idiot. Also, fuck off.