The Trayvon Martin discussion

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

These pictures of Zimmerman taken at the police station after he murdered Trayvon are damning for GZ.

[Freethinker]

You know -for people disparaging the majority of posters in this thread who believe GZ is criminally responsible for the death of TM (Freethinker, sideways)
You arent doing much to support your stance with facts or address the issues being presented to you. You want a real conversation, address the points being asked of you instead of using condescending buzzwords

Maybe if there was a little more quality to the bulk of posts. Right now, you've been judge and jury with your impressions of things, you believe what you want to believe as if you were there. The only for sure thing is a teen is dead.

[Monter]

Maybe if there was a little more quality to the bulk of posts. Right now, you've been judge and jury with your impressions of things, you believe what you want to believe as if you were there. The only for sure thing is a teen is dead.

Ill be direct. Do you acknowledge that TM was unarmed?

[TessD]

He is NOT a nice man, again if you choose to look for the information, it is out there, so I am very tired of hearing "I am waiting to hear the evidence" The FACTS do not change as someones' sig here so kindly points out to us. He just changed his target, they were talking about how he had even turned his mothers electricity off ? I have not had time to look for that one but he is and has long been looking to pick a fight-

This one is a 7-year old Myspace page called ?only to be king again? that makes disparaging comments about Mexicans. The Web page, which his attorney confirmed Tuesday is legitimate, makes reference to 2005 criminal cases and a brush in court with a woman who Zimmerman called his ?ex-hoe.?

There are several photos of Zimmerman on the page, and in one of them he appears to be wearing the same orange polo shirt that he donned in his 2005 police mug shot. Zimmerman used the name ?Joe G.? on the site, and posted a biography that mentions he grew up in Manassas, Va., had recently opened an insurance business and missed all his friends.

Last month, a Zimmerman Myspace page under the username ?datniggytb? was taken down.

The Joe G page includes a missive written in street slang.

?I dont miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) dont make you a man in my book,? the 2005 Myspace page said. ?Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by every mexican you run into!?

Another line suggested his friends went to jail and did not rat him out. ?They do a year and dont ever open thier [sic] mouth to get my ass pinched.?

The pictures posted on the page including several with an ethnically diverse group of friends. The blog section boasts about having two felonies knocked down to misdemeanors and describes a court battle with an ex-girlfriend. Zimmerman faced two felonies in 2005 for obstructing justice and battery on a law enforcement officer, but the cases were reduced to misdemeanor simple battery, and he was left with no criminal conviction on his record.

Zimmerman?s attorney, Mark O?Mara, confirmed the page was his client?s, and that it was abandoned in 2005.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/0...#storylink=cpy

Isn't there a big difference between "facts" posted on the Internet and what evidence will be presented in the trial? I freely admit that I have formed an opinion or bias based on what I have read on-line but I am still "waiting to hear the evidence" as it is presented in court because in the end, it's that evidence ..what the jury hears that will determine the outcome of this trial. It's only day two of the trial and I welcome opposing views to be expressed on this forum, even if I personally don't agree with those views. IDK i just think it makes the discussion more interesting.

[sheesh]

Dude...seriously....no RESPECTABLE CCW person or plain jane gun owner EVER EVER carries a gun with a round already in the chamber. I grew up around guns and that is safety lesson #1. Never cock and put a round in the chamber until/unless you plan to use it. Hey...I think I made my point about GZ and his murder of TM...Win Win!

Sorry, but that's not the case here. Vast majority of semi-autos are carried with a chambered round, cocked & locked for SA & uncocked for DA. It would be idiotic to have to upholster the weapon then rack the slide -- two hands -- aim & fire under attack.

GZ's Kel Tec is a double action only trigger with a hammer block. Anyone who CCWs that handgun -- and it's a fairly common CCW choice -- does so with a chambered round.

He's not very involved is he?

He's on Mars.

...I am still "waiting to hear the evidence" as it is presented in court because in the end, it's that evidence ..what the jury hears that will determine the outcome of this trial. It's only day two of the trial and I welcome opposing views to be expressed on this forum, even if I personally don't agree with those views. IDK i just think it makes the discussion more interesting.

As am I. I do have a preconceived notion of Barney Fife being allowed to have his bullet vs. a bag of Skittles, but I haven't followed the pretrial evidence closely at all. I'm watching & learning.

[Monter]

Sorry, but that's not the case here. Vast majority of semi-autos are carried with a chambered round, cocked & locked for SA & uncocked for DA. It would be idiotic to have to upholster the weapon then rack the slide -- two hands -- aim & fire under attack.

GZ's Kel Tec is a double action only trigger with a hammer block. Anyone who CCWs that handgun -- and it's a fairly common CCW choice -- does so with a chambered round.

Ok see this post? I can respect this post. It addresses the issue and explains the line of thinking behind it. If the counter arguments were all like this ( not that you are advocating one position or another) the discussion would not make me want to shoot myself in the face

[sarabei]

Sorry, but that's not the case here. Vast majority of semi-autos are carried with a chambered round, cocked & locked for SA & uncocked for DA. It would be idiotic to have to upholster the weapon then rack the slide -- two hands -- aim & fire under attack.

GZ's Kel Tec is a double action only trigger with a hammer block. Anyone who CCWs that handgun -- and it's a fairly common CCW choice -- does so with a chambered round.


He's on Mars.

As am I. I do have a preconceived notion of Barney Fife being allowed to have his bullet vs. a bag of Skittles, but I haven't followed the pretrial evidence closely at all. I'm watching & learning.

Really? I was exposed to rifles and 22, not the fancy automatics that are the subject of so much debate. We would never have thought of keeping a round in the chamber. I didn't not know that was the norm now. Wow....now I think guns are even more dangerous than before.

[sarabei]

Ok see this post? I can respect this post. It addresses the issue and explains the line of thinking behind it. If the counter arguments were all like this ( not that you are advocating one position or another) the discussion would not make me want to shoot myself in the face

Agreed, I learned something I honestly didn't know and I also learned something that makes me even more scared to live in the South. Hey..thank Sheesh! Lol.. J/K

[wasthinking]

Zimmerman is a liar. Period. That's what I'm basing my opinion on.

sorry for the length of this, but as soon as you say GZ is a liar, it becomes endless


Reenactment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1sxARNq_c

states arms spread http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjRp-vIvTNg
"Still had my gun in my hand as I was holding his hand out"
Claims to holster weapon with flashlight resident there
Had blood all over my face and my eyes [we know from the photo that is a lie]

"I still had my hand gun out" motioning with 'spread arms' [when neighbor arrived]
When witness 13 says he is going to call 911, GZ claims in reenactment, with arms still spread motion, he told the neighbor, I

don't need you to call police, help me restrain this guy.
In the reactment version, he doesn't holster his weapon when #13 arrived.
In reenactment, he claims holstered when he sees an officer coming.

Another inconsistancy is the neighbors statement indicates GZ was not on top of TM as GZ claims in reenactment.
http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/peop...immerman-case/
witness 13 Jonathon Manilo is that neighbor and his version [FDLE interview March 20] doesn't support GZ's
Did not know GZ, never seen or spoken to him before (so much for GZ knows all his neighbors)
No mention of GZ being on top of TM
TM's hands under his body
When he first saw GZ, 'the guy was on the sidewalk walking this way, toward me.
GZ was STANDING, walking
No mention of GZ on top of TM holding arms spread, and asking him to help restrain TM, GZ "was standing, walking towards me"
No mention of any handgun "still out" as GZ claims
Describes two flashlights on the ground

Manilo w his own flashlight however, details TM w bluejean shorts and a dark blue hoodie.
This guy just happen to remember he had 3 photos at this interview. He had deleted them off his phone after trans to laptop.
His previous interview with Serino these were never mentioned!
His TM dead photo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ6-Pvv-xPI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzOVa...=TLA15WE0zhSJU


Det Singleton 1st interview on 26th
So I remember I, once I shot him, I holstered my firearm and I got on top of him and I held his hands down because he was still

talking, and he, and uh, I said, Stay down. Don?t move.

GZ can't keep straight when he stood up and this version is no where near the standing conversations Manilo reports they had before

any officer arrived or enters into Manilo's version.
[1st interview Det Singleton ]
Zimmerman: No. Once the police got there I got on my feet because there was another person that got there?I guess a resident. I

couldn?t see, he had a flashlight so I thought it was a police officer.
Singleton: And at that point you stood up and got off him?
Zimmerman: Yes, ma?am.
Singleton: OK.
Zimmerman: And then when the police got there?I was already standing up

Singleton: OK
Zimmerman: and I?I put my hands on top of my?
Singleton: OK, so we?re talking about seconds between the time you see the flashlight and the police show up, or was it a little

bit?
Zimmerman: It seemed like a while but I?m sure it was seconds.

Transcription credit to https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=987

[bowieluva]

Basically, his entire defense is going to have to be that Trayvon was a gangster thug in his private life. But then that can be contradicted with the legitimate arrests Zimmerman has on his record for being violent.

[SidewaysLS4]

Dude...seriously....no RESPECTABLE CCW person or plain jane gun owner EVER EVER carries a gun with a round already in the chamber. I grew up around guns and that is safety lesson #1. Never cock and put a round in the chamber until/unless you plan to use it. Hey...I think I made my point about GZ and his murder of TM...Win Win!

Really? I was exposed to rifles and 22, not the fancy automatics that are the subject of so much debate. We would never have thought of keeping a round in the chamber. I didn't not know that was the norm now. Wow....now I think guns are even more dangerous than before.

So first no "RESPECTABLE CCW" persons would do such a thing per this expert who 'grew up around guns'...then to find out that this expert self-admittedly is rather ignorant of the most common of guns. Yet this expert has no problem condemning actions of others in this area based on this person's "expertise".

And now you know why some people can dismiss sarabei and others such as this, as not worthwhile to debate with. Hence the "condescending buzzwords" and other such remarks made in response to such statements.

[Shins]

So first no "RESPECTABLE CCW" persons would do such a thing per this expert who 'grew up around guns'...then to find out that this expert self-admittedly is rather ignorant of the most common of guns. Yet this expert has no problem condemning actions of others in this area based on this person's "expertise".

And now you know why some people can dismiss sarabei and others such as this, as not worthwhile to debate with. Hence the "condescending buzzwords" and other such remarks made in response to such statements.

Again, please see the first 50 pages of this thread that cover sarabei's side of the debate. You're coming into this a little late, and I'm confused as to why you think we should repeat information that's already been discussed.

Your position is ironic, since you've made not one actual point to support the defense, yet. ...since it's fairly obvious that's your stance.

[gypsy1197]

It's sort of hard not to have a position on this case if you actually look at ALL the evidence. Said evidence does not have to be rehashed but suffice to say, a young black man is dead and a Hispanic man shot him after ignoring a request not to follow him. Those are facts and cannot be disputed.

This has been my belief all along. If GZ had listened to the 911 operator, TM would have made it home alive and GZ would not be on trial today. Why is this difficult to understand?

I feel sad for TM's parents, having to grieve for a 17 year old who was walking home after going to a convenience store.

[sarabei]

So first no "RESPECTABLE CCW" persons would do such a thing per this expert who 'grew up around guns'...then to find out that this expert self-admittedly is rather ignorant of the most common of guns. Yet this expert has no problem condemning actions of others in this area based on this person's "expertise".

And now you know why some people can dismiss sarabei and others such as this, as not worthwhile to debate with. Hence the "condescending buzzwords" and other such remarks made in response to such statements.

Lol...I stated I grew up around rifles and 22 and that I did NOT grow up around automatics. God you really are mentally handicapped aren't you?? At least I can admit when I learn something I didn't know. Unlike you. And as a side note, the idea of crazy ass thug cop wannabes being able to legally run around with a round in the chamber of their gun scares me senseless.

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

Selene Bahadoor (currently on witness stand) lived in the Retreat complex. She was in the kitchen around 7 pm that night. Selene heard what sounded like "no" and what sounded like running from left to right in her back yard. When she moved to the sliding doors she saw what looked like two individuals with arms flailing while in a standing position.

Devastating witness against GZ, jmo. Her testimony shows that TM was running south 2 north as GZ chased him from near Brandi's home towards T-area.

[Ron_NYC]

Selene Bahadoor (currently on witness stand) lived in the Retreat complex. She was in the kitchen around 7 pm that night. Selene heard what sounded like "no" and what sounded like running from left to right in her back yard. When she moved to the sliding doors she saw what looked like two individuals with arms flailing while in a standing position.

Devastating witness against GZ, jmo. Her testimony shows that TM was running south 2 north as GZ chased him from near Brandi's home towards T-area.

Let's just wait for the evidence to come out.

[Ron_NYC]

This has been my belief all along. If GZ had listened to the 911 operator, TM would have made it home alive and GZ would not be on trial today. Why is this difficult to understand?

I feel sad for TM's parents, having to grieve for a 17 year old who was walking home after going to a convenience store.

How do we really know that's all that thug was up to?
You weren't there.

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

Let's just wait for the evidence to come out.

Uh ok

[Shins]

Let's just wait for the evidence to come out.

We need to wait for the facts.

[Ron_NYC]

We need to wait for the facts.

This is a witchhunt at this point. You people all have your minds made up. You're all afraid of facts. Suddenly it's against the law to get out of your car, chase someone down, and shoot them to death? I thought this was America.

Don't you realize the authority a neighborhood watchman has? They're about as important as chicken inspectors. Have some fucking respect for the badge, son.

[Ron_NYC]

[Shins]

This is a witchhunt at this point. You people all have your minds made up. You're all afraid of facts. Suddenly it's against the law to get out of your car, chase someone down, and shoot them to death? I thought this was America.

Don't you realize the authority a neighborhood watchman has? They're about as important as chicken inspectors. Have some fucking respect for the badge, son.

Look, Ron....

Just because this guy followed this kid, and got out of his car with a gun on his person, does not mean this altercation was his fault. We don't know what happened after George got out of his car. Who was Trayvon to walk at night in a neighborhood watch secured area?! And with candy and tea!? That hooded thug probably ran up on George and threatened his life with that tea can. Then he beat George senselessly - probably with rubber gloves that he discarded in the sewer. Just because the autopsy shows none of George's DNA on Trayvon doesn't mean we really know he didn't beat him! We weren't there! It's a good thing George had his gun on him to protect his life from the kid he followed. It's our right as Americans!!

[Ron_NYC]

Look, Ron....

Just because this guy followed this kid, and got out of his car with a gun on his person, does not mean this altercation was his fault. We don't know what happened after George got out of his car. Who was Trayvon to walk at night in a neighborhood watch secured area?! And with candy and tea!? That hooded thug probably ran up on George and threatened his life with that tea can. Then he beat George senselessly - probably with rubber gloves that he discarded in the sewer. Just because the autopsy shows none of George's DNA on Trayvon doesn't mean we really know he didn't beat him! We weren't there! It's a good thing George had his gun on him to protect his life from the kid he followed. It's our right as Americans!!

Seems legit.

Shady little criminal mastermind.

[AnnieBelle]

Look, Ron....

Just because this guy followed this kid, and got out of his car with a gun on his person, does not mean this altercation was his fault. We don't know what happened after George got out of his car. Who was Trayvon to walk at night in a neighborhood watch secured area?! And with candy and tea!? That hooded thug probably ran up on George and threatened his life with that tea can. Then he beat George senselessly - probably with rubber gloves that he discarded in the sewer. Just because the autopsy shows none of George's DNA on Trayvon doesn't mean we really know he didn't beat him! We weren't there! It's a good thing George had his gun on him to protect his life from the kid he followed. It's our right as Americans!!

And a BLACK hoodlum, at that?!! Fuck Sake, what was George SUPPOSED to do??!

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

This is a witchhunt at this point. You people all have your minds made up. You're all afraid of facts. Suddenly it's against the law to get out of your car, chase someone down, and shoot them to death? I thought this was America.

Don't you realize the authority a neighborhood watchman has? They're about as important as chicken inspectors. Have some fucking respect for the badge, son.

Look, Ron....

Just because this guy followed this kid, and got out of his car with a gun on his person, does not mean this altercation was his fault. We don't know what happened after George got out of his car. Who was Trayvon to walk at night in a neighborhood watch secured area?! And with candy and tea!? That hooded thug probably ran up on George and threatened his life with that tea can. Then he beat George senselessly - probably with rubber gloves that he discarded in the sewer. Just because the autopsy shows none of George's DNA on Trayvon doesn't mean we really know he didn't beat him! We weren't there! It's a good thing George had his gun on him to protect his life from the kid he followed. It's our right as Americans!!

Seems legit.

Shady little criminal mastermind.

And a BLACK hoodlum, at that?!! Fuck Sake, what was George SUPPOSED to do??!

It's a thug's life