Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[wasthinking]

Did you even read this? I did. On a mission to burn Geffner at the stake, eh?

Sure I read it, that's how I found the interesting similarity to this case where 'experts' relied on versions from a liar.

by showing that he relied upon specific statements made by appellant to formulate that opinion despite other information (upon which he also claims to have relied) that showed appellant telling a different story.

How can I burn him, it's HIS own history. I haven't got to them all yet. You protest too much, where was your over protectiveness for Alyce and Samuals?

[Angiebla]

Did you even read this? I did. On a mission to burn Geffner at the stake, eh?

I don't know this Dr Geffner fellow so I'm not going to comment on him but do you really think he is going to turn things around for the defense? Because that worries me!

[Rockabillychick]

What disturbs me most is his back/ head area. It looks like some kind of demon jumped on his back and went crazy. She must have stomped on his legs and ankles too. Probably kicking him while he was down. So terrifyingly brutal. Beyond evil.

That has always bothered me, that over 2 dozen other injuries were almost forgotten about or not figured in equations (like the drag pic). Only the 3 majors were argued all the time. But, he had 2 stabs to his head that were 2" and chipped his skull. Another behind the right ear (where the drag pic blood is) and forehead and r and left neck stabs (not including throat slit) that some went into muscles. And minus the vena cava, he had other frontal wounds.

JM will probably bring the back into focus especially during the cruelty aggravation phrase.

These wounds bother me too. I can't imagine what he went through. The other wounds that bother me a lot are his hands... I think that one that we can't figure out where it is but looks shaved is in his pubic region.

[Ian 1]

That has always bothered me, that over 2 dozen other injuries were almost forgotten about or not figured in equations (like the drag pic). Only the 3 majors were argued all the time. But, he had 2 stabs to his head that were 2" and chipped his skull. Another behind the right ear (where the drag pic blood is) and forehead and r and left neck stabs (not including throat slit) that some went into muscles. And minus the vena cava, he had other frontal wounds.

JM will probably bring the back into focus especially during the cruelty aggravation phrase.

Courtrooms are sterile places. Sort of like the Emergency Rooms in hospitals. They tend to sterilize the reality of the true carnage. Jodi Arias must have been all over Travis in a frenzy of punching, kicking, pushing, pulling, cursing-- stabbing, shooting--you name it--till she did him in. I hope the long days of trial haven't blocked the Juror's ability to perceive that reality.

[PopRocks]

Courtrooms are sterile places. Sort of like the Emergency Rooms in hospitals. They tend to sterilize the reality of the true carnage. Jodi Arias must have been all over Travis in a frenzy of punching, kicking, pushing, pulling, cursing-- stabbing, shooting--you name it--till she did him in. I hope the long days of trial haven't blocked the Juror's ability to perceive that reality.

I wonder how drenched her body was with blood after that all went down, its crazy she did all that in a minute

[dianalyn]

Watch out. She's looking at you! With her crazy eye.

Holy Crap! That is creepy as hell.

[wasthinking]

Courtrooms are sterile places. Sort of like the Emergency Rooms in hospitals. They tend to sterilize the reality of the true carnage. Jodi Arias must have been all over Travis in a frenzy of punching, kicking, pushing, pulling, cursing-- stabbing, shooting--you name it--till she did him in. I hope the long days of trial haven't blocked the Juror's ability to perceive that reality.

Def is hoping for a frenzy 'passion' attack, I don't think they will get one. Shot first or last, the def presented no evidence Travis had a gun except the words of a proven liar. There is evidence JA stole one and brought it with her. = premed. I'm waiting to hear at any time, even if it is after trial, if the .25 ammo found in JA's mother's house was the same winchester brand. Match is too prejudicial? They didn't match so they couldn't come in? I'm curious.
I disagree on the sterilization part. Here's why -JM went through every pic and wound methodically with the ME on day 3 . Like us, I doubt they forgot the carnage they show. I think he'll bring it full circle on close.

[dianalyn]

That's one of the things that bothers me the most about her. She says she's so ashamed. She's not the kind of person who would normally do such a thing. She's embarrassed about what people think about her. When it comes to feeling sorry for WHAT she did..she's just not there. There is no remorse, only shame. She doesn't feel sad or sorry for murdering him, or causing his family excruciating pain. She believes he deserved it, and that's perfectly obvious. She has no soul.

Sorry for the double post but I totally agree, even she talks about what she wishes was different, she says something about lying or "just let him do whatever he was going to do" - never I wish I would have not killed him. She could say I wish I would have gone directly to Utah or any number of things that would allow her to say that without admitting guilt in the way we want her to. I have hit a rabbit driving in to work very early and cried and cried. I did not do it intentionally but I was so sorry to have caused its death. I cannot imagine being in the position to cause a persons death especially one that I had just spent the afternoon with and had feelings for. That is what I find the most disturbing about her.

[wasthinking]

These wounds bother me too. I can't imagine what he went through. The other wounds that bother me a lot are his hands... I think that one that we can't figure out where it is but looks shaved is in his pubic region.

I doubt it's his pubic area, there were no wounds there. Not sure what picture you mean, but could it be the abdominal slash, lower abdominal 5+ inches, cross but under the skin. ME explained it in his testimony.

[Bellaboo]

I wonder how drenched her body was with blood after that all went down, its crazy she did all that in a minute

I think the savagery of her destruction of this young man is stunning. And the speed at which she accomplished it is incomprehensible. Is it possible that she stunned herself with this deed? I believe she was screaming when she dropped the knife. I watched the ME' s original testimony today and JA' s direct exam today. I thought what a tough job for the jury .... the defense dragged out this case unnecessarily with Nurmi' s incredibly slow manner of speaking and letting her ramble for days about every insignificant aspect of her sorry life. Diversions with sex specifics so unnecessary.
Travis did not have a chance that day and she is just evil incarnat

[queenaevadamthng]

Omg somebody split screen that pic above with her eye and Charlie Manson eye...skeery

[ShellJett]

Def is hoping for a frenzy 'passion' attack, I don't think they will get one. Shot first or last, the def presented no evidence Travis had a gun except the words of a proven liar. There is evidence JA stole one and brought it with her. = premed. I'm waiting to hear at any time, even if it is after trial, if the .25 ammo found in JA's mother's house was the same winchester brand. Match is too prejudicial? They didn't match so they couldn't come in? I'm curious.
I disagree on the sterilization part. Here's why -JM went through every pic and wound methodically with the ME on day 3 . Like us, I doubt they forgot the carnage they show. I think he'll bring it full circle on close.

Not sure exactly what ammo was found at the Mom's, but unless the gun was test-fired there is no way to make a comparison to bullet (badly damaged) or casing. If it was same brand/caliber I wish it was brought in to add to circumstantial premed. I wonder if Grandpa was given the gun loaded (long ago), and box of ammo found at Mom's was full. Something's not right with the whole thing, and I too am waiting to hear about this. I think that if JM could have gotten it in, he would have. Maybe there are variables we don't know about. BTW, there is no chemical analysis to do on bullets to compare. FBI used to do just that and had to stop because it was proven unreliable. One thing I can speak of with certainty.

[wasthinking]

Not sure exactly what ammo was found at the Mom's, but unless the gun was test-fired there is no way to make a comparison to bullet (badly damaged) or casing. If it was same brand/caliber I wish it was brought in to add to circumstantial premed. I wonder if Grandpa was given the gun loaded (long ago), and box of ammo found at Mom's was full. Something's not right with the whole thing, and I too am waiting to hear about this. I think that if JM could have gotten it in, he would have. Maybe there are variables we don't know about. BTW, there is no chemical analysis to do on bullets to compare. FBI used to do just that and had to stop because it was proven unreliable. One thing I can speak of with certainty.

yup, I know all the comparison without a gun is impossible. I am just curious if it was a box of Winchester .25. I apologize I can't remember where the report is right now, maybe on FB? Anyway, the police report from the burglary. Grandpa claimed the gun stolen had hollow points 7 rounds in it. However, the report where cops were holding survellance at JA's.. then after they arrested her, they executed SWs on grandma and her mother's house. The report only says a box of .25 ammo but doesn't state the brand was found in JA's mother's house.

Here is part of the burglary one I snipped
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/...ps46a2dbed.png

[ShellJett]

yup, I know all the comparison without a gun is impossible. I am just curious if it was a box of Winchester .25. I apologize I can't remember where the report is right now, maybe on FB? Anyway, the police report from the burglary. Grandpa claimed the gun stolen had hollow points 7 rounds in it. However, the report where cops were holding survellance at JA's.. then after they arrested her, they executed SWs on grandma and her mother's house. The report only says a box of .25 ammo but doesn't state the brand was found in JA's mother's house.

Here is part of the burglary one I snipped
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/...ps46a2dbed.png

Thanks. I wanted the opportunity to get some ballistics information out there, and I used your quote. I know you have a handle on all of this, especially the gun/ballistics, but when I can clear up something on a topic I am familiar with, I try to do it with all posters in mind. I love burglary pics from Grandparents. The house looks like it should be on Hoarders.

[Rockabillychick]

Thanks. I wanted the opportunity to get some ballistics information out there, and I used your quote. I know you have a handle on all of this, especially the gun/ballistics, but when I can clear up something on a topic I am familiar with, I try to do it with all posters in mind. I love burglary pics from Grandparents. The house looks like it should be on Hoarders.

The Deliverance theme pops into my head when I see the pictures of the inside of it.

[ShellJett]

I'm going over to JA chit-chat for some fuckery. It was clearly "ladies night" last night, but come on over if you are bored. Anybody, please. I am bored again, and I tend to get in trouble when bored.

[DenverClipper]

I've always thought Travis was shot first simply because of the trajectory of the bullet and his last known position sitting in his shower.

But I am beginning to be convinced by the many intelligent and informed posters here that she may have stabbed him first.

If that happened, and the first or one of the first stabs was to the heart area - which was not in itself incapicating - how come Travis didn't punch JA out? He was a big guy and was a MMA enthusiast. That doesn't make sense to me. Was he so horrified that he couldn't adequately defend himself? Could he run with the wound to the heart?

I have decided I may skip Wednesday entirely and tune in for closing. I can't imagine another presumed professional testifying on the stand when he knows or should know by now that everything he was told was a lie. Another career destroyed.

[Ian 1]

Def is hoping for a frenzy 'passion' attack, I don't think they will get one. Shot first or last, the def presented no evidence Travis had a gun except the words of a proven liar. There is evidence JA stole one and brought it with her. = premed. I'm waiting to hear at any time, even if it is after trial, if the .25 ammo found in JA's mother's house was the same winchester brand. Match is too prejudicial? They didn't match so they couldn't come in? I'm curious.
I disagree on the sterilization part. Here's why -JM went through every pic and wound methodically with the ME on day 3 . Like us, I doubt they forgot the carnage they show. I think he'll bring it full circle on close.

Sure! I'm not buying the passion 'frenzy.' I'm buying the 'execution' frenzy. Travis fought back, he desperately struggled to escape. This was a brawl and Arias had the advantage with the knife and later the gun. As for the comparison between the emergency room and the courtroom it's this! ER physicians see so much destruction that they get inured to it just so that they can carry on and do the repairs. You don't see them walking in on a bloodied victim on a gurney shouting "who the hell did this?" As tempering as the rules of procedure are in the courtroom, we do have the satisfaction of the Prosecutor demonstrating his outrage, pointing a finger at Arias and shouting, "you did this and you're going to hell."

[Metis212]

Credentials mean little... We saw AVL had 'credentials' coming in. Samuals had credentials coming in. We saw how well those credentials held up in the teeth of bull dog Martinez. They could bring in 10 Goofner's it won't help any more than the two that came before him. This guy's history shows he hasn't been any more 'credible' in trying to support killers with psychofogs than they were. He might as well come in a tutu and ballerina slippers (Dying Swam). He could spew with the cadence of a rapper, he is still representing a liar and the jury knows this.

Sure I read it, that's how I found the interesting similarity to this case where 'experts' relied on versions from a liar.

by showing that he relied upon specific statements made by appellant to formulate that opinion despite other information (upon which he also claims to have relied) that showed appellant telling a different story.

How can I burn him, it's HIS own history. I haven't got to them all yet. You protest too much, where was your over protectiveness for Alyce and Samuals?

Better go back and read it again. Read it carefully, cause what you are saying isn't accurate. Tell us exactly what he relied upon. In english. Dont copy and paste.

[Ian 1]

I've always thought Travis was shot first simply because of the trajectory of the bullet and his last known position sitting in his shower.

But I am beginning to be convinced by the many intelligent and informed posters here that she may have stabbed him first.

If that happened, and the first or one of the first stabs was to the heart area - which was not in itself incapicating - how come Travis didn't punch JA out? He was a big guy and was a MMA enthusiast. That doesn't make sense to me. Was he so horrified that he couldn't adequately defend himself? Could he run with the wound to the heart?

I have decided I may skip Wednesday entirely and tune in for closing. I can't imagine another presumed professional testifying on the stand when he knows or should know by now that everything he was told was a lie. Another career destroyed.

The stab wound must have hurt like hell! Imagine Travis's reaction--the pain, the confusion, the decision to get to the sink, fighting to get there to soothe the pain. Jodi Arias didn't stab him once and then stand back and watch Travis's reaction. She pressed her attack with a barrage of 27 more stabs and cuts.
That poor guy couldn't think of fighting back--only of getting away from her and the pain. To use Arias's stolen words, he was in mortal terror and probably in a fog of disbelief that it was happening to him.

[Ian 1]

Sorry! Duplicate post. Time to rest up for Monday.

[PopRocks]

I've always thought Travis was shot first simply because of the trajectory of the bullet and his last known position sitting in his shower.

But I am beginning to be convinced by the many intelligent and informed posters here that she may have stabbed him first.

If that happened, and the first or one of the first stabs was to the heart area - which was not in itself incapicating - how come Travis didn't punch JA out? He was a big guy and was a MMA enthusiast. That doesn't make sense to me. Was he so horrified that he couldn't adequately defend himself? Could he run with the wound to the heart?

I have decided I may skip Wednesday entirely and tune in for closing. I can't imagine another presumed professional testifying on the stand when he knows or should know by now that everything he was told was a lie. Another career destroyed.

RE: the bolded part

Travis was wet and naked, whereas jodi had a knife and was swinging it at him

If I was in that position, I wouldnt try to fight back with the attacker, I would be trying to defend myself and try to get the hell away from them.

Judging by his wounds, its obvious travis was trying to do just that. Unfortunately jodi was handy with a knife

[DenverClipper]

The stab wound must have hurt like hell! Imagine Travis's reaction--the pain, the confusion, the decision to get to the sink, fighting to get there to soothe the pain. Jodi Arias didn't stab him once and then stand back and watch Travis's reaction. She pressed her attack with a barrage of 27 more stabs and cuts.
That poor guy couldn't think of fighting back--only of getting away from her and the pain. To use Arias's stolen words, he was in mortal terror and probably in a fog of disbelief that it was happening to him.

Did he go into shock immediately after the first stab and consequently he couldn't fathom what was happening to him? I would think that upon the initial stab(s) his adrenalin would have kicked in and the pain would have been minimalized and he would have fought back more aggressively.

Something initially incapicated and befuddled Travis and he was unable to adequately defend himself.

[Jillee]

You guys!!! Poor Coconut!

Can't we just get him really drunk and shave one eyebrow?

Let's find a way to give him jodi bangs!

Well, I just learned that he doesn't wear underwear, so freezing them is out. We can't alter his looks permanently or else he won't be Big Daddy Yum Yum Yummo any more....But, we can place his hand in warm water while he's sleeping!

Omg somebody split screen that pic above with her eye and Charlie Manson eye...skeery

Yeah, what's up with her eyes?! It's almost like they're myopic or she has a floating eye?

I've always thought Travis was shot first simply because of the trajectory of the bullet and his last known position sitting in his shower.

But I am beginning to be convinced by the many intelligent and informed posters here that she may have stabbed him first.

If that happened, and the first or one of the first stabs was to the heart area - which was not in itself incapicating - how come Travis didn't punch JA out? He was a big guy and was a MMA enthusiast. That doesn't make sense to me. Was he so horrified that he couldn't adequately defend himself? Could he run with the wound to the heart?

I have decided I may skip Wednesday entirely and tune in for closing. I can't imagine another presumed professional testifying on the stand when he knows or should know by now that everything he was told was a lie. Another career destroyed.

Horrified. I think that sums it up. Terrified and terribly at a disadvantage being naked and wet. Honestly, I think he must have been frozen in terror. We're not sure how she got him right where she wanted him. That's the part that keeps me up at night.

Metis, I'm not going to dis this doc that is coming up on Wednesday, yet. He has his reasons for taking this case... just not sure what they could possibly be if he's a reputable fellow. I don't think his testimony will help her in the least- no matter his credentials. Wish we knew why he's doing this. He's not going to come out of this unscathed. His career is going to take a BIG hit on Wednesday if his dx is derived from of a known liar. But, we shall see what he brings to the table and exactly how far he's been sucked into Jodi's lying lie-hole.

[Ian 1]

Did he go into shock immediately after the first stab and consequently he couldn't fathom what was happening to him? I would think that upon the initial stab(s) his adrenalin would have kicked in and the pain would have been minimalized and he would have fought back more aggressively.

Something initially incapicated and befuddled Travis and he was unable to adequately defend himself.

A more experienced person that I, said it better. When Martinez was hovering around with his question about the 'pain' Arias felt when she nicked her wrist in her alleged suicide attempt (and promptly abandoned the effort), didn't Martinez confront her with something like this? "Can you imagine how Travis felt when you stabbed him?" When you're hurt as badly as Travis was after that first stab, all you feel is the pain and it consumes you.