Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[carnee]

So now Nurmi's wife, the elementary school teacher, is fair game?

That is SO wrong!

[carnee]

@blighted star and AnnieBelle:
I heard that hair and nails continue to grow after one is deceased. Don't know how legit that is, but if so, that may account for TA's 'stubble'.

Totally creepily true. My nails split in life. Once I kick they would grow strong. So odd!!

[faq_q]

Here is a recent post from Tanisha Alexander Sorenson lifted from the Justice for Travis FB page. here is the link https://www.facebook.com/Justice4Travis


A heart felt message to all our supporters from Travis' sister, Tanisha:

To All the Supporters of Travis and our Family,

As the time is now near to verdict time our family needs your support more than ever now. You all have been true examples of Christ, very giving , caring, kindhearted, and loving. The support of all of you has been heartfelt and has brought many smiles to our families faces during these hard times. We will be forever grateful !

I know that the most important thing we can all continue doing is getting down on our knees and praying to the Lord that we will have Justice for Travis here on this earth. I know there will be Justice in the life to come in the eternities but I feel that the Lord will also have his hand in bringing Justice here on earth. Our Heavenly father hears our prayers and he will answer them.

The jury will get this case on Monday the 6th and that's why I have a special request from all of you to join us as we pray and fast for the Jury, For our Family, For Travis, and For the Ultimate Justice in this case. My family and I will be fasting and praying on Sunday May 5th. I know from my own personal experience that the Lord has answered my prayers after I fasted, and that's why I know if we all do it on Sunday the 5th , he will see that we all have faith in him and that Justice is what we want and I feel he will deliver as he touches the hearts of the Jurors.

We have all been brought together thru this horrible tragedy, we have all been touched by Travis and his inspiration as he was alive, by the things he did while he was alive, and by the people he helped and served while he was alive, and because of the Death of this amazing man , we all share the love, the loss, the hope, the sorrow, the life, the faith, the gratitude, the strength, the empathy, and the unity, together. May the Lord continued to bless all of you for all the strength and love you have shown our family.

Don't be sad for Travis for he is happy, in a wonderful place doing the Lords work, he continues to teach, learn, serve, laugh, make others laugh, sing, and rejoice in happiness. He is with our Savior Jesus Christ, he is with us in our hearts and minds , and he will be with us as we get the Verdict of Guilty of first degree Murder and have Justice for him! Our family loves you all!! Our Heavenly Father loves you, and Travis loves you!!

Justice4Travis!!!

Thanks Metis, I hope we all see justice happen for Travis. I was also thinking that....tada! I could maybe be there for the verdict! I bet there will be people staying overnight for that though. Poppycock? Ian? You two game for Monday? If we can't get in, at least we could be around there and watch it at a bar or something over a couple drinks?

[Bellaboo]

I think they possibly have to have the court reporter read testimony back to them. Although I have no idea how they would know what day/time to ask for to get to a particular topic, considering how long this trial has gone on.
Maybe someone who's done jury duty knows?

I can only speak from my experience .... we went into the jury room only with a copy of the charges which were two counts of murder one and two counts of aggravated assault. The sheet with the charges was completed by our fore-person and handed to the judge's clerk when we completed our deliberations.

[carnee]

Yes. I don't even like the attacks on Nurmi (who didn't want the case but was required to take it). Complaining about the way he presents his case: OK! Fair game. But I don't care for the attacks on his appearance. I definitely draw the line when people start making fun of his wife, who has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this case and is a school teacher for chrissakes.

I am with you. He tried to get off this case. JA is the boss. She listens to no one. It makes me sad to see the ugly images of anyone. I pass quickly through. I'm no saint, but truly, mean is mean. Once, I had the nerve to say I did not think JM walked on water. I hated how he screamed at each witness and I was accused of being a troll. Told I was not the 'majority". I know most people on this board are thoughtful. No one has a right to obstruct justice because they "hate" the defendant. Nurmi and most certainly his wife should be left alone. He is doing his job. She is married to a man doing a very unpopular job in the very public eye.

[Missmandy9]

Hey all! So is there a chance of the jury getting the case handed over on Friday (say closing arguments are done EOD Thursday or early Friday)? Or do you think the judge will wait until Monday regardless?

Just hoping for Friday as I think deliberations will be pretty quick and I'll be traveling all next week so it'll be hard to keep track/watch the verdict live. And I realllly want to see it live!

And I know it sounds a little selfish but I had been hoping deliberations wouldn't be next week!

[carnee]

it would bother me, too!

I understand where you are coming from. Do you think because he defends pedophiles, his wife would invite some into her class for show and tell? Very unfair.

[carnee]

I understand where you are coming from. Do you think because he defends pedophiles, his wife would invite some into her class for show and tell? Very unfair.

Not meaning to be a smart ass...

[Freaktab]

Being protective is a motherly response. But, her husband's job is not to be in the classroom, but a courtroom, so where do they cross over?

Another thought for people who do not want to live near an offender. No one would be comfortable with that. However, living near a KNOWN offender is safer because you can talk to your child about staying away. The scary part is when your child is out and about a neighborhood where an offender has not yet been identified, but is "acting out". You don't know who it is, even if the person seems to be the nicest man on the block. Food for thought.

I just had to comment on this as I am a professional educator. There is nothing wrong with being protective, but I can share that sex offenders don't come with a sign and they are difficult to catch. The most important thing we can give our children is a voice!

Nicely said!

[Freaktab]

I'm surprised JA didn't think of the story that the Boston bomber's mom came up with. It was an elaborate hoax by actors using red paint and a huge conspiracy just to frame an innocent person. Come on, it could happen to anyone.

I think this was going to be the next story for Stabby!

Good god y'all.

[carnee]

I was speaking in generalities. I have no recollection of what was actually entered into evidence. There were so many exhibits, and I often got up to do something during the Stapling. I will be curious to see what/if they ask for anything. May need to wait for closings and deliberations before we know what's available for jury.

Should change my username to: havenoclue

Tee hee

[*crickets*]

Well, I'm confused...

I went into this week firmly convinced a murder 1 conviction was in the bag; that the ME's testimony would seal the deal with a BOOM. Then I heard his testimony, full of "I believe"s and "I think"s and now I'm back to not so sure. Of all the questions he was asked about the gunshot being first and whether Travis would have been capable of purposeful actions after the shot, and even whether the bullet actually went through the brain, the "I think/believe so" and "probably so" (or not) outnumbered the straight-up "yes" or "no" answers by 2 to 1.





So I googled some brain anatomy pics and tried to figure it out for myself. I looked at a bunch and am still confused. Based on the bullet going in just above the eyebrow and angling downward away from the brain, some of the images made it look like the brain would have been impacted, others not so much...then I thought about the stories I've heard about people with small-caliber gunshot wounds to the head who walk and talk after their injuries, some told on this very thread...

Then, hearing the ME say he didn't recall having any conversations with Det. Flores after the autopsy, let alone a conversation Det. Flores testified to with him regarding the gunshot being last, left me wondering even more. Why would this supposedly impartial doctor lie about that?

So I'm left undecided and uneasy when I was so sure...does "I think", "I believe" and "probably" equal "beyond a reasonable doubt"? Does "I'm confused" equal "beyond a reasonable doubt"? The waters seem muddy right now.

[Jillee]

Being protective is a motherly response. But, her husband's job is not to be in the classroom, but a courtroom, so where do they cross over?

All of the women in my family are teachers. My mother taught for 48 years as a reading specialist. My aunts, uncles, brother are all teaching. My daughter is getting her teaching credential in a few years. Most all of them taught/teach K-6. I was a room mom every year for 12 years when my kids were in elementary school. Maybe it's just my school district, but I've met nearly every one of my kid's teacher's husbands/wives at school events. They cross over. I'm not accusing Nurmi for being inappropriate around children. I just feel (IN MY OPINION) that it's a conflict of interest for ME. It gives me a creepy vibe, but again, that's just ME. IMO. IMHO.

I can only speak from my experience .... we went into the jury room only with a copy of the charges which were two counts of murder one and two counts of aggravated assault. The sheet with the charges was completed by our fore-person and handed to the judge's clerk when we completed our deliberations.

I was on a few juries and we were given all of photos, just our notes and jury instructions. They would have the court reporter read transcripts back to us in the deliberation room when we asked for it. Not sure how it works in Arizona. It may be entirely different.

I understand where you are coming from. Do you think because he defends pedophiles, his wife would invite some into her class for show and tell? Very unfair.

NO! That would be illegal. With that comment, it's safe to say you don't know where I'm coming from.

I am interested in lots of things apart from Jodi, but many of the regulars and older posters on the other threads I have looked at make so many disparaging remarks about everyone who participates in the Jodi thread, that I feel alienated from posting anywhere else. The vicious things they say about the Jodi thread and everyone who posts on it are extremely insulting, ie: we are all insane, loser, mentally unbalanced, moronic, annoying, whining, pain in the ass fucktards. And they don't say a few people, they say everyone. Except for one person, who was recently thoughtful enough to say that only 99% of the people who post on the Jodi thread meet the above listed criteria. So I don't think it is just too much focus on this thread that keeps some of us isolated, it is the venom expressed towards us outside this thread.

So agree with this. The venom alone keeps me in this thread only. I have bought soaps from an MDS'er. Great product. However, I'd rather not be called an idiot because I'm posting here. Funny thing is, some posters here (just a few) join in on calling us idiots over on the other threads then turn around and post here too... I don't get it.

I am with you. He tried to get off this case. JA is the boss. She listens to no one. It makes me sad to see the ugly images of anyone. I pass quickly through. I'm no saint, but truly, mean is mean. Once, I had the nerve to say I did not think JM walked on water. I hated how he screamed at each witness and I was accused of being a troll. Told I was not the 'majority". I know most people on this board are thoughtful. No one has a right to obstruct justice because they "hate" the defendant. Nurmi and most certainly his wife should be left alone. He is doing his job. She is married to a man doing a very unpopular job in the very public eye.

Is there someone obstructing justice??? Surely not by posting opinions? And nobody is bugging Nurmi's wife that I'm aware of. Obstructing justice is illegal and really should be reported if you know of it happening. NOBODY wants a do-over on this trial. Obstruction of justice is a pretty big deal! BTW. I never slam Nurmi for his looks. I couldn't possibly care less about his looks. I don't care for his style, but his looks don't bother me. And I personally don't mind if you like Nurmi and don't like Martinez. That's your preference and I respect your opinion. I'd never call you a troll for something like that.

I'm not going to argue with you. I'm just stating my opinion in hopes that things don't get out of hand. If nobody says anything, sometimes it turns into a big ol' dogpile.

[poppym]

and some not so experts.
My only interest is seeing what another Doctor can come up with when dealing with a known liar. Not saying he is or isn't a hired voice, just saying no one can come up with a totally correct diagnosis when they are getting their information from a person who has an active habit of lying. Especially since his hands should be (by definition of surrebuttal witnesses) hog-tied by the scope of what he may testify to

IMO, Jodi's lies are attributed to Malingering. It drives me nuts when the media calls her a pathological liar. She lies for the purpose of secondary gain. I can't imagine what this Doc could add to the defense, unless it's an attempt to back-up or/and rehabilitate AlV & Dr S, and of course challenge Demarte's diagnosis.

Morbid_much's music choice for that video was outstanding!

Totally agree! It was perfect, and VERY powerful! Did you see the slagging she took on youtube? Some arseholes were saying the music was disrespectful, and she was mocking the seriousness of the case!

I say her using the word ashamed is part of her preparation for BWS. I think she did a lot of reading and studying up on DV buzzwords prior to testifying. Her behavior in the Courtroom and blatant disregard for TA's family shows just what a despicable piece of shit she truly is. Maybe she can't help it due to BPD, but when she goes out of her way to stare at the jury or TA's family it's downright evil. She doesn't seem to have the capability to feel what we do, and that's just something I have come to accept, however distasteful it is. I have never once seen actual tears, and with such a large courtroom I don't think the jury can see that she is not actually crying. I don't think it will matter in the long run though. Any sympathy they have towards her should go out the window when they look at the autopsy pictures. I am hopeful that she will be judged on the evidence and that her attempts of manipulation will be apparent to the jury. I find solace in the way the self defense law is written. Even if a juror thinks she acted in sd, the law should make it clear that she is guilty of murder.

I completely agree with this! It's all smoke and mirror BS! If she shows remorse, it negates the claim of self defense. If she feels shame, it humanizes her! Although IMO, neither are present in JA's case.

I think the only time she cried REAL tears throughout this entire trial was when she came back in the courtroom from chambers after being told the entire sex tape recording was going to played. Where she called her sister dumb and she realized that the jury would hear HER instigating it all. And those were tears for Jodi, not for anyone else.

Absolutely! And on the 2nd day of interrogation tapes, she is left alone for a while, writing a letter to TA's family (which was a ruse for the Detectives to buy time to observe her). She's brought a sandwich, and while eating it, she suddenly lowers her head and begins to cry. I think THIS is the first time Jodi realizes she is FUCKED! CAUGHT! DONE FOR!

So now Nurmi's wife, the elementary school teacher, is fair game?

Yes. I don't even like the attacks on Nurmi (who didn't want the case but was required to take it). Complaining about the way he presents his case: OK! Fair game. But I don't care for the attacks on his appearance. I definitely draw the line when people start making fun of his wife, who has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this case and is a school teacher for chrissakes.

I agree! There are so many better subjects to talk about.

My thoughts on this? I think she and her defense team constructed a scenario in which their story would work, vs. showing what really happened. Her positioning was very stiff, and contrived...right down to the exact position of his head, when he supposedly "attacked" her. If he were truly doing as she says, and if this was all happening as Jodi described it, I highly doubt she would have noticed the exact position of his head. She doesn't even remember the gun going off, clearly. She says she pointed it and doesn't remember pulling the trigger. So, how is it that she can get up and demonstrate this? It's a little "too" perfect. That is how defense teams work....they find a scenario that the jury might possibly buy, to explain her involvement in it all. For me, I still have no doubt.....I don't believe a thing that comes out of her mouth.

Agree! There are two reasons for this IMO. (1) The initial reason for the DP being the shot after he was dead. (2) Defense are 'guessing' the path of the bullet once it entered TA's skull, which was indeterminate due to decomposition. Plus, through their own questioning (cross of ME by Willmott), if Jodi's story was correct, there would be stippling around the entry wound! If he lunged at her like a linebacker in that small space, he would be awfy close!

I am getting more and more frustrated over the gunshot evidence. It's so obvious the bullet trajectory is in a downward manner; upper right to lower left ----- how obvious is that??? No way it happened the way Jodi said it did!! Why didn't JM bring this front and center with ME?

JM talked about this with the ME the first time he testified.

At 1:02:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h0fje33320

Yea its pretty sad. TBH i think this is one of the reasons why they had so much sex. Jodi seems so unable to demonstrate any human emotions and closeness, so sex was probably the only form of love she could give

Agree with this, and would add that she offered sex, in order to achieve her goal of having Travis! Rookie mistake!

[rdeadline]

So agree with this. The venom alone keeps me in this thread only. I have bought soaps from an MDS'er. Great product. However, I'd rather not be called an idiot because I'm posting here. Funny thing is, some posters here (just a few) join in on calling us idiots over on the other threads then turn around and post here too... I don't get it.



I came to this website to talk about the trial and after the trial I have no reason to stick around.

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

Are we sure they are allowed to take the transcripts back to the jury room? That would be great! Sorry of this was already answered.

I think they possibly have to have the court reporter read testimony back to them. Although I have no idea how they would know what day/time to ask for to get to a particular topic, considering how long this trial has gone on.
Maybe someone who's done jury duty knows?

If they want to rehear testimony they have to ask to have it read back. I'm not sure how AZ does it but sometimes if the jurors want a only a portion of testimony read the lawyers will argue that the whole testimony should be read back.

I'm surprised JA didn't think of the story that the Boston bomber's mom came up with. It was an elaborate hoax by actors using red paint and a huge conspiracy just to frame an innocent person. Come on, it could happen to anyone.

That'll be her next story and I expect her to say TA was played by a crisis actor due to a plot by the Church to silence her. She'll be acting as her own attorney by then of course and will point dramatically to the court room door and say TA will come walking in

Um hey, Dr Drew, you are looking so buff lately. Your body is just great and we've been spending so much time together on TV for like weeks now.

Why don't you take a shower for a little while? I could take some totally great pictures of you for Facebook and stuff? Pls! OMG?

Have I told you lately that I love you? I'm so glad the intervention appears to have helped

I thought the 48 hours interviews they couldn't take into deliberation, at least thats what I think I heard. I'd have to go back to the day they were introduced as evidence, thought they made mention that the jury would not have them.

The jurors will get everything entered into evidence except biological material.

Totally creepily true. My nails split in life. Once I kick they would grow strong. So odd!!

So totally creepily not true

Hey all! So is there a chance of the jury getting the case handed over on Friday (say closing arguments are done EOD Thursday or early Friday)? Or do you think the judge will wait until Monday regardless?

Just hoping for Friday as I think deliberations will be pretty quick and I'll be traveling all next week so it'll be hard to keep track/watch the verdict live. And I realllly want to see it live!

And I know it sounds a little selfish but I had been hoping deliberations wouldn't be next week!

Depends on what time final arguments wrap up. I read somewhere that the court house doesn't have security on weekends so if that's true then deliberations until Monday if they don't start Friday.

Well, I'm confused...

I went into this week firmly convinced a murder 1 conviction was in the bag; that the ME's testimony would seal the deal with a BOOM. Then I heard his testimony, full of "I believe"s and "I think"s and now I'm back to not so sure. Of all the questions he was asked about the gunshot being first and whether Travis would have been capable of purposeful actions after the shot, and even whether the bullet actually went through the brain, the "I think/believe so" and "probably so" (or not) outnumbered the straight-up "yes" or "no" answers by 2 to 1.


So I googled some brain anatomy pics and tried to figure it out for myself. I looked at a bunch and am still confused. Based on the bullet going in just above the eyebrow and angling downward away from the brain, some of the images made it look like the brain would have been impacted, others not so much...then I thought about the stories I've heard about people with small-caliber gunshot wounds to the head who walk and talk after their injuries, some told on this very thread...

Then, hearing the ME say he didn't recall having any conversations with Det. Flores after the autopsy, let alone a conversation Det. Flores testified to with him regarding the gunshot being last, left me wondering even more. Why would this supposedly impartial doctor lie about that?

So I'm left undecided and uneasy when I was so sure...does "I think", "I believe" and "probably" equal "beyond a reasonable doubt"? Does "I'm confused" equal "beyond a reasonable doubt"? The waters seem muddy right now.

No it doesn't. The ME couldn't say to a medical certainty due to the decomposition of the brain. It was pudding and therefore the wound track was not visible. This is NOT reasonable doubt for reasonable people.

Crickets, don't drive yourself crazy over this. It's not healthy and there's NOTHING you can do about it. We have to trust that the jury is as smart and diligent as the questions they asked lead us to believe they are. JM will tie it all up. He gets to give the first closing, then the DT and then JM gets to sum it all up again.

[M Joy]

Dismissed Arias juror speaks out
Corey Rangel
Updated: 26 minutes ago

ABC15 has now confirmed a man arrested over the weekend on a DUI charge was the most recent juror dismissed in the Jodi Arias trial.

According to Gilbert police, Daniel Gibb was arrested on Saturday and told the arresting officer he was a member of the jury.

On Tuesday, the officer was called into a "sealed proceeding" with the judge, the prosecutor and the defense attorneys.

What was discussed in the secret meeting is confidential.

Two days later, juror #8 was dismissed and the judge gave no reason.

Gibb gave ABC15 a statement saying: "It was a privilege to know the other jurors and I will miss them. It was actually a great experience. Thank you for respecting my privacy."

Neighbors tell ABC15 Gibb and his wife and informed them he was on the jury, but Gibb followed court orders and never spoke about the case.

Herman Weiner, a family friend, said while Gibb proudly served on the jury, Gibb's wife hinted the restrictions of the trial had an impact on the family.

"She'd be like I'm glad when this will be over. My husband will be back to the family, I'm happy this will be over pretty soon," said Weiner.

It turns out; Gibb left the trial earlier than expected when the judge dismissed him from the case on Thursday.

"You know he could have two schools of thought. He could be like I put so much into this I'd like to see this to the end or he could be like what a relief. I get back to my normal way of life right now," said Weiner.

[*crickets*]

Dismissed Arias juror speaks out
Corey Rangel
Updated: 26 minutes ago

ABC15 has now confirmed a man arrested over the weekend on a DUI charge was the most recent juror dismissed in the Jodi Arias trial.

According to Gilbert police, Daniel Gibb was arrested on Saturday and told the arresting officer he was a member of the jury.

On Tuesday, the officer was called into a "sealed proceeding" with the judge, the prosecutor and the defense attorneys.

What was discussed in the secret meeting is confidential.

Two days later, juror #8 was dismissed and the judge gave no reason.

Gibb gave ABC15 a statement saying: "It was a privilege to know the other jurors and I will miss them. It was actually a great experience. Thank you for respecting my privacy."

Neighbors tell ABC15 Gibb and his wife and informed them he was on the jury, but Gibb followed court orders and never spoke about the case.

Herman Weiner, a family friend, said while Gibb proudly served on the jury, Gibb's wife hinted the restrictions of the trial had an impact on the family.

"She'd be like I'm glad when this will be over. My husband will be back to the family, I'm happy this will be over pretty soon," said Weiner.

It turns out; Gibb left the trial earlier than expected when the judge dismissed him from the case on Thursday.

"You know he could have two schools of thought. He could be like I put so much into this I'd like to see this to the end or he could be like what a relief. I get back to my normal way of life right now," said Weiner.

Thanks for sharing this. He's a nice-looking guy. I still say I'd be drinking too if I was on that jury, just not driving afterward! He has much bigger problems than being inconvenienced by jury duty now, poor guy.

[*crickets*]

As for Robert Geffner and his institute, make no mistake...he is the best of the best. Alliant International University is held in high esteem for forensic psychology. Some of you have quoted that he is a hired gun, well, that is one way to look at it, another would be that he has the education, training, experience and credentials to convince the jury of Jodi's victimization. He did not edit Alyce's book, rather she wrote a chapter for a book he edited. Bigggg difference. The defense is pulling out all the stops to save Jodi's life.

I dont think it is over yet.

Metis, I always appreciate your insights from a psych professional's perspective. I'll be very interested to hear your thoughts on his testimony next week.

[Justice Seekers]

I know some of you got a kick last time. Second installment. http://open.salon.com/blog/fernsy/20..._arias_trial_2

[blighted star]

At some point over the past few months HLN had a medical examiner on stating that Travis being shot where he was wouldn't have incapacitated him. It passed through his BRAIN RIGHT???? Where do they find these people?

That's the thing though, it IS possible. Rare, yes, but entirely possible. That pic coconut posted of an ink diagram showing a skull with a stick through it was a REAL injury. Phineas Gage had a steel rod blasted through his left frontal lobe while working on the railroad in 1848. The rod was 43inches long, 1.25in diameter, & weighed 13.25 pounds. It shot into his cheek, ripped through his brain & exited the top of his skull, landing a few feet away. Accounts from that day aren't 100% clear, but it's possible he never lost consciousness at all. He was blind in one eye, but was certainly fully aware & conversing when finally able to see a Dr later that same day, stating "Here is business enough for you". Eventually he even returned to work, this time at a stable.

& you can also search Rachel's Story : Rachel Barezinsky was shot with a .22 hollowpoint, that on penetration mushroomed to twice it's size & fragmented within the right parietal region. It then traversed the right temporal lobe & the rear of the right frontal lobe, crossed the midline, then penetrated the left frontal. The bullet left behind a trail of bone & metal while damaging all 4 lobes, & is now permanently embedded in the front of her left frontal lobe. (loosely quoted from "Rachel's Story", sorry all, I wanted to post you the link, this girl's fucking inspirational, but I have to manually type my links & this one's a page long!!)


ALSO, I realise Rachel Barezinksy isn't a perfect fit for Jodi's story because there's no way she was doing the whole linebacker thing after a catastrophic injury like THAT - but what if the bullet that changed her life hadn't fragmented? What if only one lobe was damaged? Rachel's story was featured in "People". I'm not American, I don't know how widely read it is, but Kinky Friedman seems to suggest it has quite a following? If that's true, you could very well have a juror or 2 able to cite it during deliberations?

http://www.people.com/people/archive...467630,00.html

[faq_q]

Well, I'm confused...

I went into this week firmly convinced a murder 1 conviction was in the bag; that the ME's testimony would seal the deal with a BOOM. Then I heard his testimony, full of "I believe"s and "I think"s and now I'm back to not so sure. Of all the questions he was asked about the gunshot being first and whether Travis would have been capable of purposeful actions after the shot, and even whether the bullet actually went through the brain, the "I think/believe so" and "probably so" (or not) outnumbered the straight-up "yes" or "no" answers by 2 to 1.





So I googled some brain anatomy pics and tried to figure it out for myself. I looked at a bunch and am still confused. Based on the bullet going in just above the eyebrow and angling downward away from the brain, some of the images made it look like the brain would have been impacted, others not so much...then I thought about the stories I've heard about people with small-caliber gunshot wounds to the head who walk and talk after their injuries, some told on this very thread...

Then, hearing the ME say he didn't recall having any conversations with Det. Flores after the autopsy, let alone a conversation Det. Flores testified to with him regarding the gunshot being last, left me wondering even more. Why would this supposedly impartial doctor lie about that?

So I'm left undecided and uneasy when I was so sure...does "I think", "I believe" and "probably" equal "beyond a reasonable doubt"? Does "I'm confused" equal "beyond a reasonable doubt"? The waters seem muddy right now.

I hear ya crickets, I'm not certain that the shot hit the brain. In fact, I think I have seen that diagram before. I was questioning that long before you brought it up. Good find though! Thanks.

Dismissed Arias juror speaks out
Corey Rangel
Updated: 26 minutes ago

ABC15 has now confirmed a man arrested over the weekend on a DUI charge was the most recent juror dismissed in the Jodi Arias trial.

According to Gilbert police, Daniel Gibb was arrested on Saturday and told the arresting officer he was a member of the jury.

On Tuesday, the officer was called into a "sealed proceeding" with the judge, the prosecutor and the defense attorneys.

What was discussed in the secret meeting is confidential.

Two days later, juror #8 was dismissed and the judge gave no reason.

Gibb gave ABC15 a statement saying: "It was a privilege to know the other jurors and I will miss them. It was actually a great experience. Thank you for respecting my privacy."

Neighbors tell ABC15 Gibb and his wife and informed them he was on the jury, but Gibb followed court orders and never spoke about the case.

Herman Weiner, a family friend, said while Gibb proudly served on the jury, Gibb's wife hinted the restrictions of the trial had an impact on the family.

"She'd be like I'm glad when this will be over. My husband will be back to the family, I'm happy this will be over pretty soon," said Weiner.

It turns out; Gibb left the trial earlier than expected when the judge dismissed him from the case on Thursday.

"You know he could have two schools of thought. He could be like I put so much into this I'd like to see this to the end or he could be like what a relief. I get back to my normal way of life right now," said Weiner.

Thanks for posting this, I knew he had a goatee! I can still picture the jury in my head, I have a photographic memory of sorts so I had to remember which seat he sat in to figure it out. It's a shame for sure, even in the short time I was there, he seemed to be the one I thought had it most "together" at least by looking at each of them.

Metis, I always appreciate your insights from a psych professional's perspective. I'll be very interested to hear your thoughts on his testimony next week.

Ditto! Metis, I look forward to hearing from this witness and seeing what he has to say. Knowing that you hold him in high regard goes a long way. Juan will have his hands full if what you say is true. I just hope he is up to the challenge.

[coconut]

True Star.

Could Travis have had another 90 - 120 seconds of reasonably meaningful activity after being shot in the brain the way he was? YES HE COULD HAVE.

[gigiann]

OK fellow MDSers....I was just watching one of those Mystery Detective shows on HLN and I saw a very disturbing thing. The case was about the killing of Melvin Snyder (looong time ago)....anyway the investigator and ME were talking about the gun used. During the investigation a single bullet casing was found but there was NO BLOOD to be found. (man was missing).....so the investigator made an unusual, interesting comment. If the bullet doesn't exit, it won't bleed. I took note and replayed. Have any of the sleuths here ever heard this concept????? I was pretty shocked to hear that!

[Harlette]

I hear ya crickets, I'm not certain that the shot hit the brain. In fact, I think I have seen that diagram before. I was questioning that long before you brought it up. Good find though! Thanks.

from hornes original testimony where he explained in a man travis' age the brain is flush against the skull not like the drawings
Dr. Horn: It had to have passed through the brain
Q: You don't have any medical evidence of that do you?
Dr. Horn: I do, the skull is perforated where the brain is, so it had to have passed through the brain.
Q: Well
Dr. Horn: The brain is there
Q: But you have no idea, you have no medical evidence of how far or what part of the brain exactly it would of hit, right?
Dr. Horn: It would have passed through the right frontal lobe
Q: Uh um
Dr. Horn: I just don't have any evidence of hemorrhage now because of decomposition. But it had to have passed through the brain because the part of the skull that was injured. The brain in a young person especially, is flush against that structure
Q: Um uh
Dr. Horn: The brain occupies the entire skull, so to have a hole in the skull here and exit in here, it has to pass through the brain.
Q: Well the exits, there's no exit.
Dr. Horn: The exit from the skull cavity into the face.
Q: uh ha.. so but but what you're saying though, you have no idea how where that bullet might have hit, it could have just grazed the tip of the brain, right?
Dr. Horn: No, it had to have passed through the right frontal lobe of the brain. Based on where these holes in the skull are