Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[AnnieBelle]

This probably won't go down real well, but now that I've seen a picture, it's raised more questions for me than it's answered. I think it could possibly make sense to someone who's actually had a person charge at them like that. The one doing the charging usually doesn't want to use their head as a battering ram. They tend to start to turn their head to one side or the other as they come at you, so that it's their shoulder that hits you full centre. At the same time or very soon after they start to turn their head to the left or right, they also duck their head down slightly so that it's under the target's arms -which are usually angling up by then for protection.

& before anyone gets frustrated with my stupidity, I'm not saying "this IS how it happened". What I'm saying is if I can have that thought, so can others. A clear, concise model showing the only possible trajectory could've dealt with the issue decisively, & then the jury need waste no time having exactly this type of discussion.

I never make the suggestions I do to cause shit in the thread. It's because even if 999 people say "yep. That's sooo OBVIOUS", there's always going to person 1000 who sees the opposite. Sometimes person1000 is thoughtful & open to discussion. But sometimes they just can't grasp what everyone else has hold of, & sometimes they don't wanna let go of their version. This threads proof that you can never predict how someone else will see something. It's after midnight here again & it's always my after midnight posts that don't come out quite the way I intend, so I hope I'm explaining myself better than I did for my last few after 12am, sorry if I'm not guys, will reread it in the morning & see if I should've reconsidered after sleep (again)

My thoughts on this? I think she and her defense team constructed a scenario in which their story would work, vs. showing what really happened. Her positioning was very stiff, and contrived...right down to the exact position of his head, when he supposedly "attacked" her. If he were truly doing as she says, and if this was all happening as Jodi described it, I highly doubt she would have noticed the exact position of his head. She doesn't even remember the gun going off, clearly. She says she pointed it and doesn't remember pulling the trigger. So, how is it that she can get up and demonstrate this? It's a little "too" perfect. That is how defense teams work....they find a scenario that the jury might possibly buy, to explain her involvement in it all. For me, I still have no doubt.....I don't believe a thing that comes out of her mouth.

[faq_q]

Ive noticed this too. I have seen her cry with tears afew times, but I can tell she is only crying for herself, its pretty insane how she shows such lack of remorse for killing someone she claims to have loved

Didn't she mention in one of the police interrogation tapes that she was sad about all the things she was going to miss out on? Even then, she didn't show an remorse for Travis, just kept on asking to see the crime scene photos.

[BreachofTrust]

Hate to burst you clowns bubble but I'll give you a lesson in Statics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statics for most of you, since you probably have no fucking clue what it means) & Mechanics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanics . The shelf above appears to have the pins about 1" in from the edge. In order for it to tip over, the tip of the foot would have to be just on the edge. The further in the foot is, the less likely it is to tip. If the foot is a few inches in from the edge, there is no way it will tip forward. The heel doesn't have to be over the pin either. It would most likely come crashing straight down from the weight as the pins would give way. However, if you distribute your weight between it and one you have your hand on, reach up and grab something off a higher shelf, you will only be on ift for a split second and your momentum going up will lessen the load on the shelves. If the pin was 4 inches in from the front, it would be a different story.

The palm of the hand in the picture is placed on the very edge, pushing at an angel to best make the shelf tip. Couldn't be any more blatant.

It's been many years since I took statics, but in statics, the sum of the forces must equal zero. Jodi's foot is an added force. The only way that shelf didnt move or break is if it had enough force within it (along with the other forces, friction, etc) to at least equate to the force of Jodi's weight she put on the shelf along with the corresponding angle in which she put that force. We don't have that information, so any calculations are speculation.

[AnnieBelle]

Agree. Her husband's client has nothing to do with her.

His family has nothing to do with his choice of career.

[gigiann]

I am getting more and more frustrated over the gunshot evidence. It's so obvious the bullet trajectory is in a downward manner; upper right to lower left ----- how obvious is that??? No way it happened the way Jodi said it did!! Why didn't JM bring this front and center with ME?

[zeebee]

I've never made attacks on Nurmi's appearance. And my point has nothing to do with this case.

I'm not going to argue with you. I'm just stating my opinion in hopes that things don't get out of hand. If nobody says anything, sometimes it turns into a big ol' dogpile.

[AnnieBelle]

Didn't she mention in one of the police interrogation tapes that she was sad about all the things she was going to miss out on? Even then, she didn't show an remorse for Travis, just kept on asking to see the crime scene photos.

YES!!! She has indicated those sentiments on a couple of occasions. One was an interview when she was in prison stripes.....she says something like "my first thought was..what a waste. I had my whole life ahead of me....." and not one mention of the fact that Travis had HIS whole life ahead of him, too. The other was in one of the interrogation tapes, when Flores suggested that her crying was because she might be feeling emotion about what had happened (Travis' murder) and she says "no. I'm crying about all of the things I'm going to miss!" This girl doesn't have an ounce of remorse in her body. It's all about JODI!

[Bellaboo]

That's one of the things that bothers me the most about her. She says she's so ashamed. She's not the kind of person who would normally do such a thing. She's embarrassed about what people think about her. When it comes to feeling sorry for WHAT she did..she's just not there. There is no remorse, only shame. She doesn't feel sad or sorry for murdering him, or causing his family excruciating pain. She believes he deserved it, and that's perfectly obvious. She has no soul.

I totally agree. Her utter lack of remorse and her smug demeanor are impossible to understand ..... we keep looking f or a clue as to what makes her tick and cannot find it. She does not possess any humanity, has no sorrow and just is so ... so I don't know what. And we can't look away.

[zeebee]

Not for nothing but I really don't think Nurmi's wife should be a target in here. She is a teacher whom loves to teach and that is admirable profession. IMO

**You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to faq_q again.**

[debk589]

Wait, just read Biggies post in BreachofTrusts quoted response: not sure if anyone touched on this but isn't the point of them stepping on the edge of the shelf was because absolutely nothing was disturbed on ANY of the shelves? So the only logical deduction there is in order to not disturb anything on the shelves, she had to have tip toed it on the very edge, which is what she herself testified she did. If what Biggie is arguing is true, something would have amiss in the closet.

[PopRocks]

Her face and eyes were very swollen that day as if she had been crying. For herself. Her father was in court, and the sex tape was going to get played. The other time I believe she cried was during interrogation when she had her head down saying "It's not fair". She was blowing her nose pretty good that day. Personally, I have not seen her shed a tear. I saw evidence of crying twice but have yet to see her actually do it. Attempts, yes. Real tears, no.

Didn't she mention in one of the police interrogation tapes that she was sad about all the things she was going to miss out on? Even then, she didn't show an remorse for Travis, just kept on asking to see the crime scene photos.

Yea its pretty sad. TBH i think this is one of the reasons why they had so much sex. Jodi seems so unable to demonstrate any human emotions and closeness, so sex was probably the only form of love she could give

[Brillig]

This very long document is the 2011 AZ State Bar Association criminal jury instruction, Ch. 4.04. As the bolded part says, if the state fails to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act with justification, the jury must find the defendant not guilty of the charge. In other words, the burden of proof is on Martinez.

Since the prosecution has proven that the gunshot came last (because Travis would have been immediately incapacitated by the gun shot according to the ME), they have therefore proven that Jodi's entire self defense story ("I shot him first") is a lie. Therefore the prosecution has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act with justification. Martinez has met the burden of proof.

So I won't get to hear anymore about the secret messages?! That's bullshit! I was so intrigued when JM brought that out and couldn't wait for more!

It is disappointing, but I think Juan did get in the important part.... that Jodi attempted to send sneaky secret messages in a magazine telling someone to change what they told the attorneys to comport with what Jodi was saying. So the details don't really matter. What matters is that it showed the jury Jodi is a schemer who is willing to lie and sneak and ask others to lie for her.

I'd be trying smack for the first time!!!

I'm going for opium..... pass me the hookah, please.

Hmmmm, I told the thread that I know him through a friend. Of course I called her. And I looked up his research articles. Google told me he didnt have any published research, but he does. He taught at the national Judicial college for 10 years. So what if one judge didnt find him credible? I can think of many reasons for that single opinion. Alyce is hanging on his coat tails, not the other way around.

Google only tells us what is popular...what gets the most hits. It doesn't tell what is accurate or what is truth.

Common sense dictates an open mind, no?

You are right of course, Metis. We should have an open mind.

But I don't want to. I don't want him to be competent, or respected, or anything but a quack. His job is to try and get Jodi off, to make more fake excuses for a vicious, sociopathic, heartless butcher, and that is what he will do. If he wasn't going to do it, the defense would not be calling him. And I hate that. Sorry to dis someone you know, but frankly, I would be bothered if a friend or acquaintance of mine was going to testify on Jodi's behalf. I would think less of them forever. That might not be common sense or an open mind, both of which I like to think I usually possess, but in this particular situation, that is where I'm at.

I just caught the rerun of Dr. Drew. Katie was on!



I could barely recognize her in the glare from her forehead, but when I saw the pasty white makeup under her eyes and her nacho cheese colored tan, I knew it was her.

Was she ever going for it! Katie says essentially the same thing every time she's on the show but tonight was a double stuffed burrito of Jodi hate with a side order of foundation makeup. Suprestar grabs the mic and works up some fake emotions. Then rambles about how intensely emotional it is in there and how much she hates Jodi. Katie must fantasieze about water boarding Jodi in Guantanamo Bay and forcing her to admit that she is a lying bitch, prying open her eyelids and making her look at pictures of what she's done.

Katie would not be the only one with that fantasy. Just sayin'.

[hatchan]

Donavan has feminine wiles? ?

he/she "borrowed" them from the three holed wunderkind.

[faq_q]

**You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to faq_q again.**

Shit, I get the same thing with you We're in REP hell!

[AnnieBelle]

No idea what you're looking at, I was flipping back to catch up & saw this question. You probably sorted it out ages ago, but just in case, it's not an area the M.E has clipped, to make detail more visible is it? I have my Dad's Australian Police Journals, which are basically a monthly forensics magazine. What you're describing is something that appears fairly often in wound measurement pics. Could that explain what you guys were looking at?

We were referring to a link with autopsy photos, that was posted shortly before we had the above mentioned conversation. The link brings up a strip of photos. The one in question is the 6th one down from the top. We're trying to figure out exactly what part of the body, what wound, that is a picture of. The blood pattern looks similar to the wound in the photo right above it (that one is the chest wound.....his nipple is visible, as is part of his arm) but they don't look exact. The marks I was talking about are right below large area of blood. A line of what appears to be small spaced wounds in a linear fashion.

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

There is no way she shot Travis first



Much of this has been discussed ad nauseam but I thought I'd post it for anyone still doubts whether she stabbed or shot him first.

I'm firmly in the stabbed him first camp

[zeebee]

Shit, I get the same thing with you We're in REP hell!

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

Now that we all know her "tells" when she's busted on a lie it's great to watch the cross exam of the Tesoro purchase and JM's bomb about Walmart not having any record of her returning that damned 3rd gas can.

[hatchan]

Personally, I wouldn't want my kids in her class. But that's just me. I've been known to be over protective.

NOT because of Jodi. Because he's representing pedophiles/sex offenders. That's a bit disturbing to me. I know someone's got to do it, however I wouldn't want my child's teacher's husband to be around that element. Too close for comfort for me. But that's JUST ME. I'm not speaking for anyone else. I'm sure that wouldn't bother most people, but it bothers me.

it would bother me, too!

[AnnieBelle]

That is good news, but also sad news. Because it means a certain big guy is taking a savaging over something he had very little say in. He tried to refuse the case. If he is stuck with the defense she demands, then unless she is demanding he act illegally, it sounds as though he has very little room to move & it puts the questions to Deanna in a very different light. He must've known people would blame HIM. If he'd refused, then could it have become grounds for appeal at some point?

Is there any chance that by doing what he did, her own attorney just blocked at least one route of appeal & therefore has removed at least one future source of pain for Travis' family? Of course, that's completely negated if he could've said no, without any fallout later. But if he has had no choice in any of this since being ordered to take the case, then he probably felt sicker than anyone with that questioning. You guys will know better than me though, whether he can say no without potentially giving Jodi grounds for appeal.

I don't think Nurmi feels badly about anything he's done in this trial. Criminal Defense Lawyers are in a class all by themselves. Ethically, they are bound by certain limitations. They can't get up there and knowingly lie. But, they are basing their defense on what information they get from their client. Some probably have the "don't ask, don't tell" policy...in that, if the client says "I am innocent", then the lawyer can choose to believe them and take the case. And build a defense that seems to work. Some have the stance that if they don't believe in their client's innocence, they will refuse to represent the person. Or, the defendant can "fire" their attorney, if they are not seeing eye to eye. The attorney-client privilege keeps much of how they actually operate in the dark. I have seen cases where the defense attorney seems painfully aware that their client doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of beating the rap, and often appear almost apologetic to the victim's family for their role in the whole fiasco. But, once an attorney commits to the case, and is deeply entrenched in it, they usually are required to see it through. Nurmi's reasons for wanting to withdraw from this case were so that he could focus on setting up his private practice. The judge denied his request (I think he made more than one) It could have been that he wasn't feeling so certain about his client any longer....who knows. An appeal on ineffectual counsel usually has to be something BIG, for it to overturn a case. She will file appeals, no doubt. A conviction on first degree murder carries an automatic appeal. If she is sentenced to death, there will be appeal upon appeal filed. Some convicts don't allow their lawyers to do that, because they don't want to drag things out. Others go to the death chamber, hoping that 11th hour pardon will come through.

[zeebee]

Now that we all know her "tells" when she's busted on a lie it's great to watch the cross exam of the Tesoro purchase and JM's bomb about Walmart not having any record of her returning that damned 3rd gas can.

I can't watch right now, but IIRC, her nose turns red again.

[ShellJett]

Now that we all know her "tells" when she's busted on a lie it's great to watch the cross exam of the Tesoro purchase and JM's bomb about Walmart not having any record of her returning that damned 3rd gas can.

It's this kind of stuff that makes me believe the jury is going to ask for readbacks of her testimony. Too bad they can't get the videos like we do. Back to Spring cleaning!

[CMB76]

I just caught the rerun of Dr. Drew. Katie was on!



I could barely recognize her in the glare from her forehead, but when I saw the pasty white makeup under her eyes and her nacho cheese colored tan, I knew it was her.

Was she ever going for it! Katie says essentially the same thing every time she's on the show but tonight was a double stuffed burrito of Jodi hate with a side order of foundation makeup. Suprestar grabs the mic and works up some fake emotions. Then rambles about how intensely emotional it is in there and how much she hates Jodi. Katie must fantasieze about water boarding Jodi in Guantanamo Bay and forcing her to admit that she is a lying bitch, prying open her eyelids and making her look at pictures of what she's done.



I can see why you might say that. But consider this. In a life or death scrap between a linebacker/wrestler and a yoga waitress, the little waitress needed a massive advantage to come out with only one finger injury but otherwise fine and dandy for business lunch next day. That advantage likely came from careful planning and stacking the deck in her favor for the attack. Jodi did a great job of killing him, so effective in fact that without clever planning, it would not have been possible in my mind.

LOL!! I wonder what Katie and that nut job Katiecoolady are going to do when the trial is over. God help them. Dr. Drew needs to have 2 beds ready at the local mental ward.

[AnnieBelle]

Personally, I wouldn't want my kids in her class. But that's just me. I've been known to be over protective.

NOT because of Jodi. Because he's representing pedophiles/sex offenders. That's a bit disturbing to me. I know someone's got to do it, however I wouldn't want my child's teacher's husband to be around that element. Too close for comfort for me. But that's JUST ME. I'm not speaking for anyone else. I'm sure that wouldn't bother most people, but it bothers me.

I understand.....and I would probably not be comfortable with it, either, if my children were involved. I was always very proactive when it came to making sure they were safe and comfortable in their learning environments. My son has ADHD, and I was fortunate to have worked with wonderful teachers...but I was never afraid to take on one that I didn't feel was being fair. Nurmi, himself, is not part of the classroom experience...but as a mother, I'd follow my intuition. I always had the mind frame "if the state government insists that they educate my children, then they'd better make damned sure they are doing it up to my standards, or I will be sitting on their doorstep every stinking day, if I have to.

[Booya]

@blighted star and AnnieBelle:
I heard that hair and nails continue to grow after one is deceased. Don't know how legit that is, but if so, that may account for TA's 'stubble'.