Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[Bellaboo]

I am not saying that, at all. What I AM saying is that it is a very real possibility that they could come back with less than 1st degree....and there won't be a danged thing we can do about it. I am a realist, who likes to be prepared for something to happen beyond the scope of what I can control. I am hoping for murder 1 and the DP, personally. But I also know that what I want doesn't change the fact that it will be up to the 12 jurors who will ultimately decide her fate.

I feel that less than murder one will be an incredible defeat as her plea deal.in 2011'for 2nd degree was an outright blackmail document .. she said if not accepted she would drag him through the.mud and she did that in spades. But you are right .. the jurors will decide and I guess we have to prepare for the worst case scenario. It is terrifying to think of her out of jail/prison because she is downright evil.

[wasthinking]

This very long document is the 2011 AZ State Bar Association criminal jury instruction, Ch. 4.04. As the bolded part says, if the state fails to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act with justification, the jury must find the defendant not guilty of the charge. In other words, the burden of proof is on Martinez.

yup, and that is exactly what Shell said, I was just confirming it from those jury instructions.

Are you saying you would want second degree?? She would out in 15 years!! It has
to be murder one for her to get life w/o parole or DP

Depends, we'll have to wait and see what jury instructions the Judge dishes out and, if Nurmi gets his wished for passion excuse instruction.

I don't want to wait until Wednesday.

Me either! Blame Nurmi he's the fall guy for everything except Jenny's grating voice.

WT: I have read many appeals and I happen to agree with you. Very few appeals actually lead to another trial or anything overturned. Stabby will file them anyway because she will never come to terms with her own responsibility.

Do you think there are any grounds? Just curious as I do respect your opinion.

oh my gosh, thank you for the nice compliment. Well we aren't done yet, haven't heard jury instructions yet, so forgive me,...
Here is where I hesitate to give any ideas out. Creeps read here if you know what I mean. I think they should start with my full moon one. Donovan should get that out on twitter asap.

[olgasbunghole]

Thank you, can I ask why is that? I mean, It doesnt leave important information out there about how bananas the defendant is???

The only reason is because it's how our law's are written to give the defendant a fair unprejudicial verdict to his/her trial..................... if I had it my way, i'd be giving the jury EVERYTHING!

[AnnieBelle]

I feel that less than murder one will be an incredible defeat as her plea deal.in 2011'for 2nd degree was an outright blackmail document .. she said if not accepted she would drag him through the.mud and she did that in spades. But you are right .. the jurors will decide and I guess we have to prepare for the worst case scenario. It is terrifying to think of her out of jail/prison because she is downright evil.

I know.....I feel the same way. She is guilty beyond any doubt, in my mind. I am not typically pro DP, but I make an exception in Jodi's case. Heck, I would gladly stick the needle in her bony little arm, myself. She is pure evil. I think I am protecting myself, because I was SO certain that Casey Anthony was going to be convicted, and I was so upset when I heard the verdict. Stunned. I guess I am just scared to get my hopes too high.

[Bellaboo]

Thank you, can I ask why is that? I mean, It doesnt leave important information out there about how bananas the defendant is???

That is how our judicial system is designed .. it would be chaos if jurors were allowed to investigate on their own.
Also, a lot of evidence that might be deemed to be prejudicial to the defendant is not admitted into evidence. So the jurors just have to weigh the evidence presented and render their verdict

[MadameX]

Well Im prepared to hear 2nd degree, I dont know a lot about your justice system and how to prove 1st degree. Even if I would like her to get the DP I just dont want to be dissapointed in case the Jury comes out with the 2nd.

Im ok with her spending the rest of her miserable life behind bars.

But she WON'T spend the rest of her life behind bars if she's only convicted of second degree. With the 5 years already spent, she'd likely spend another 17 years behind bars and be out before she's 50.

Hardly justice for the brutal, gruesome crime she committed...

[dizzyp]

Last call of Jodi to TA was June 3 8:34 pm lasted 49 seconds

and even that might have been a message machine? Truth is it's impossible to build a reliable timeline using anything JA says happened. Everything is suspect. Time she got there, did he really know she was coming? Are the "after sex" photos spontaneous? posed? forced? Is the shower photo session really voluntary or under threat?

I think I am much clearer now on what happened during the murder though, after today's testimony.

[Harlette]

As much as I try to keep my emotions in check about this case, the family talking about how much she has ruined so many lives is going to get to me. A lot.

Agreed. I have no problem admitting that I am biased and one sided regarding her. I understand that her attys are just doing their job and all that jazz, but sorry, she is guilty as fuck, and JM has done a way better job than the DT. Fuck them, and fuck her.

.

right there with you!

Thank you, can I ask why is that? I mean, It doesnt leave important information out there about how bananas the defendant is???

if ppl who aren't experts in anything - except maybe google - start to do there own research and experimets, then can end up with false conclusions - and that can lead in an innocent person being found guilty - or the other way around. in fact not all states even allow the jury to ask questions like in this trial - arizona is one of the few states that allow it - does that answer your question?

[Dee Stress]

That's what I was thinking. too. The dog came in & juror 8 is removed soon after, coincidence? But B Karas confirmed it is routine the dog does a daily sweep.

Coincidence or not, it's never been remarked on by any court watchers I read, and a few of them tend to report a helluva lot. If it is routine surely the most sensible time to do it would be when the court is empty and before people start arriving, isn't that the whole point of these dogs?

I dont know why some people are getting depressed. The facts havent changed at all, and this past week we have seen some good evidence introduced to disprove almost everything jodi has claimed so far

Today was a little jumbled, but overall imo nothing really changed in favor of jodi imo

I think the juror getting dismissed is what is bringing everyone down

Totally this! Obviously didn't want to see another juror go, but we do still have 15 left. I think it's been a great week for the PT.

If he was in the wrong, he deserves to be gone. How in God's name is a juror being in the wrong the def's "fault". People are starting to sound like JA.
Come on, have people really lost all respect for our system? Is your sense for our system's balances and checks not stronger than hating on any def?
That is exactly what I was taking about today .. Lynch mob fuck the constitution? burn Nurmi for every mistake anyone makes? How in the hell is it Nurmi's "fault" when it is the Judge that makes the decision?

Now that It's been suggested he asked to be dismissed (I'll believe it when confirmed officially, as it may well have been by now and i've missed it) I need to leave that aside to address your reply.

I did say IF the juror fucked up he was to blame, and I was obviously speculating what could be behind it, ie, the defence and their fuckery. 'Hating' on the defence as you put it, has been a daily talking point on this forum, so I don't know why you're so rattled about that right here. Something you've often indulged in yourself btw. Incidentally, I do loathe this DT, their tactics have disgusted me. That's what I was alluding to in that post, their previous under-handedness with jurors, and don't forget mama Arias' part in that. As for 'blaming' Nurmi, I don't remember saying anything other than what I've just said previously, that I believe the DT are behind fuckery of all sorts, including trying to get jurors dismissed. Obviously the ultimate decision lies with the judge and as I imagine the whole world's aware of that, it's safe to say I am too. No idea what you said today re lynch mobs, I'll hazard a guess it's about the lynch mob mentality you've mentioned before.

I do appreciate a lot of your informative posts, links and esp helping people out pretty swiftly when looking for info, as I've mentioned before. But I don't get what was with the attitude there. The people beginning to sound like JA gave me a serious LOL moment though, I think you're getting a wee bit carried away there.

Juror 8 asked to be dismissed for job/work related reasons. He was told trial would end approximately April 11 and with arguments/deliberations/possible mitigation phase/sentencing this will go until June.

I hope that actually is the case, though the timing and what happened after still seems a bit strange to me. Was that released from an official source do you know?

I thought JM would have asked LaViolette this! "Is it usual for battered women who kill in self defense to immediately drive ten hours to yet another state and grind with a new potential victim, err, I mean partner?" Maybe he did and I missed it!

I've been following since I watched the first 48hrs in 2009. I was intrigued by JA's demeanor, and at that time, the show left you with a lot of questions. I didn't start finding more information about the case until October 2012. This conclusion has been a long time coming!

I was shouting at the stream on both occasions! It's more like gren-itch!

48 hrs was how I pretty much got into it too, and w/s's. I try and avoid 48 hrs as I waste too much time googling the most extreme cases, it does my nut in when I accidentally hit on it and it pulls me in again. Gren-itch it is!

Yikes! Had never heard of it. Looked it up, and that is SO not my kind of film.

Love it ... kinda.



Slightly o/t, but in relation to Court Reporters. I hope it works if you don't have fb, as there's a good few laughs in there.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

[Bellaboo]

I know.....I feel the same way. She is guilty beyond any doubt, in my mind. I am not typically pro DP, but I make an exception in Jodi's case. Heck, I would gladly stick the needle in her bony little arm, myself. She is pure evil. I think I am protecting myself, because I was SO certain that Casey Anthony was going to be convicted, and I was so upset when I heard the verdict. Stunned. I guess I am just scared to get my hopes too high.

I can't believe how many of us are so emotionally invested in this case. I felt today that the case just abruptly ended with a dull thud. I think the prosecutor is amazing, not perfect, but passionate in his zeal to pursue justice.
I am going to call it a night. I do enjoy your posts AnnieBelle. Good night

[wasthinking]

As much as I try to keep my emotions in check about this case, the family talking about how much she has ruined so many lives is going to get to me. A lot.

Agreed. I have no problem admitting that I am biased and one sided regarding her. I understand that her attys are just doing their job and all that jazz, but sorry, she is guilty as fuck, and JM has done a way better job than the DT. Fuck them, and fuck her.

Thank you wt, I was wondering about that!

Seriously. Overkill to the extreme and anyone who looks at that and tries to say she was justified can go fuck themselves. If your life is in danger, you do enough to stop the threat and then get out of there, and it's very obvious that is NOT what she did.

I really hope that some of you stick around when this is all over. Some of you are really good posters and would be a nice addition to the whole site. I hope so hard that there is justice for Travis and his family.

I am the first to stick up for the def has a job to do. But, this def isn't just doing their job. They are vile. They have gone way over the line of doing a job, they are cruel minded, unprofessional, unethical and I suspect, deliberately drag it out to fill their pot of gold. Nurmi whining nonstop about motions already denied and then turning around and using denied motions like it was a new agrument is a sign of complete stupidity.

[olgasbunghole]

Originally Posted by Freaktab
WT: I have read many appeals and I happen to agree with you. Very few appeals actually lead to another trial or anything overturned. Stabby will file them anyway because she will never come to terms with her own responsibility.

Do you think there are any grounds? Just curious as I do respect your opinion.

oh my gosh, thank you for the nice compliment. Well we aren't done yet, haven't heard jury instructions yet, so forgive me,...
Here is where I hesitate to give any ideas out. Creeps read here if you know what I mean. I think they should start with my full moon one. Donovan should get that out on twitter asap.

you've got "alot" of........... us inquiring minds, waiting to hear your thoughts on the matter, when the time is right

[blighted star]

Oh shit, please accept a huge public apology WT. I didn't mean at all to imply you were blindly pro-prosecution, but that's exactly what I did do by wording it that way. I meant that you were pro-prosecution in this particular case, as a result of considered evaluation of the information available to you.

Anyone just starting at that page could've read it very differently than the way I intended. I will edit the original post so that anyone new to the thread doesn't get the wrong idea. & I offer a second apology to WT & anyone else who had to waste their time addressing that section of my post (sorry, been thrown out to mobile site again so can't use quote function - or almost anything else).

[BLue]

The only reason is because it's how our law's are written to give the defendant a fair unprejudicial verdict to his/her trial..................... if I had it my way, i'd be giving the jury EVERYTHING!

That is how our judicial system is designed .. it would be chaos if jurors were allowed to investigate on their own.
Also, a lot of evidence that might be deemed to be prejudicial to the defendant is not admitted into evidence. So the jurors just have to weigh the evidence presented and render their verdict

Thanks again, I understand now, I sentenced her to death since the 1st time I read about this case lol. So I suppose is a good thing to keep them away from reserching

[MadameX]

I am the first to stick up for the def has a job to do. But, this def isn't just doing their job. They are vile. They have gone way over the line of doing a job, they are cruel minded, unprofessional, unethical and I suspect, deliberately drag it out to fill their pot of gold. Nurmi whining nonstop about motions already denied and then turning around and using denied motions like it was a new agrument is a sign of complete stupidity.

Seriously--I think Jose Baez was more ethical in his representation of Casey Anthony than this team has been.

And believe me, I can't stand that guy...

[Bellaboo]

Yes but that only tells us 'someone' was on the computer.
No, there is no 'verifiable' evidence he was up all night that night.
Thomas' lie though said JA called from outside TA door. That never happened. Thomas wasn't even a room mate at that time and had been long gone by June 4
JA said she arrived at 3 am then changed to 4 am. We know from phone records she didn't call him from outside the door or anywhere else at 4 am.
Last call of Jodi to TA was June 3 8:34 pm lasted 49 seconds

Wt.... you have been amazing today. I am in awe of your knowledge and ability to retrieve info so quickly.
You are developing quite a following you little show boat you! I am on sensory overload now so I will retire now. 'Nite.

[Harlette]

Thanks again, I understand now, I sentenced her to death since the 1st time I read about this case lol. So I suppose is a good thing to keep them away from reserching

gotta admit, i kinda wish we could send jodi to your prison and btw i miss your photoshop - i stlll bump for csi photo spread every time some one brings up the close up on the eye

[BLue]

But she WON'T spend the rest of her life behind bars if she's only convicted of second degree. With the 5 years already spent, she'd likely spend another 17 years behind bars and be out before she's 50.

Hardly justice for the brutal, gruesome crime she committed...

Well Im ok if she gets 1st but no DP then

[olgasbunghole]

I am the first to stick up for the def has a job to do. But, this def isn't just doing their job. They are vile. They have gone way over the line of doing a job, they are cruel minded, unprofessional, unethical and I suspect, deliberately drag it out to fill their pot of gold. Nurmi whining nonstop about motions already denied and then turning around and using denied motions like it was a new agrument is a sign of complete stupidity.

I've run out of rep privilege for a while otherwise I'd be making a donation to you!!!!!! YOU ROCK!

[Brillig]

Dr. Geffner founded something called the Family Violence and Sexual Assault Institute, which joined the San Diego campus of Alliant International University and became known as the Institute on Violence, Abuse and Trauma. Here are a couple of websites that came with reviews. JM is going to have a field day with this quack.

http://www.collegetimes.tv/alliant-i...ity-san-diego/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=420206

They appear to be very low caliber. Does not really add much to his credibility. It will be interesting to hear Juan's questions.

Thanx to all who replied!! Now I've got a few more questions.. if they've taken a particular position/line of questioning, only because the client has INSISTED, am I right to assume she has no grounds for appeal if her attorney's have documented advising her that it would be incredibly detrimental to her case? Do attorneys who have been ordered to take a case have the ability to refuse to follow a clients instructions on morality/stupidity grounds? Or would that refusal itself be potential grounds for appeal?

Jodi will have no legitimate grounds for winning an appeal based on ineffective counsel if the DT followed her requested theory of the defense after explaining the risks to her. They could not have refused to present her case based on morality grounds. As far as stupidity, her requested line of defense would have had to be truly nonsensical before it would become a factor. (For example, Jodi claiming that aliens came down in a space ship and killed Travis.) However, if that happened, they could then claim that their client was not mentally competent to stand trial, and the problem would be resolved in that way.

An attorney leaving the case at a critical stage could be valid grounds for appeal, and chances are the attorney could be disciplined or in some cases disbarred.

Frankly, Jodi's "defense story" was actually a pretty good lie that encompassed all the evidence against her while still giving her a chance to be acquitted. I'm honestly not sure what other possible story she could have come up with to give her the chance of actual acquittal (which was obviously her goal). So Jodi made up the best story that was possible under the circumstances and rolled the dice, hoping to get lucky. If it does not work, it does not mean she had ineffective counsel.

Notice I said Jodi won't WIN an appeal on those grounds. But it doesn't mean she won't file one. I predict she will file appeals on every possible grounds that can be imagined. I mean, why not? It costs her nothing, she will have nothing else to do in prison, and there is always a chance (no matter how slight) that an appeal could get her a new trial, so unless convicted only on the lowest possible charge, she has nothing to lose and might as well file as many appeals as possible. I predict she is not going to be a Timothy McVeigh type (he did not want appeals and was executed more quickly that is usual).

[Rockabillychick]

I don't want to wait until Wednesday.

Neither do I, but I can swear I heard the mountain of laundry cheering.

As much as I try to keep my emotions in check about this case, the family talking about how much she has ruined so many lives is going to get to me. A lot.

Agreed. I have no problem admitting that I am biased and one sided regarding her. I understand that her attys are just doing their job and all that jazz, but sorry, she is guilty as fuck, and JM has done a way better job than the DT. Fuck them, and fuck her.

Thank you wt, I was wondering about that!

Seriously. Overkill to the extreme and anyone who looks at that and tries to say she was justified can go fuck themselves. If your life is in danger, you do enough to stop the threat and then get out of there, and it's very obvious that is NOT what she did.

I really hope that some of you stick around when this is all over. Some of you are really good posters and would be a nice addition to the whole site. I hope so hard that there is justice for Travis and his family.

That neck wound. I tear up every single time. He didn't deserve any of what she did, but that....

I know.....I feel the same way. She is guilty beyond any doubt, in my mind. I am not typically pro DP, but I make an exception in Jodi's case. Heck, I would gladly stick the needle in her bony little arm, myself. She is pure evil. I think I am protecting myself, because I was SO certain that Casey Anthony was going to be convicted, and I was so upset when I heard the verdict. Stunned. I guess I am just scared to get my hopes too high.

I am not typically pro DP either, but I do see it fitting in certain cases, this being one of them. I felt the same way about the CA trial, and was shocked when the verdict came back. I also have my reservations with this verdict as well. I really hope that there is justice for Travis. She didn't stop killing him in the bathroom she continued the onslaught during this whole trial.

[AnnieBelle]

I am the first to stick up for the def has a job to do. But, this def isn't just doing their job. They are vile. They have gone way over the line of doing a job, they are cruel minded, unprofessional, unethical and I suspect, deliberately drag it out to fill their pot of gold. Nurmi whining nonstop about motions already denied and then turning around and using denied motions like it was a new agrument is a sign of complete stupidity.

I have to agree with you on this one. Although I am not a big fan of defense attorneys, I am respectful that it is a job that someone's got to do. Most that I have observed try to come up with a workable defense while also keeping the victims suffering and loss in the picture. It helps to be humble and show the jury that there is respect for the judicial system and for all parties involved. These two, however, are disgusting. They have shown that they will stoop to whatever level they have to, in order to win their case. And I am hoping that it has the same negative effect on the jury as it has on us.

[BLue]

gotta admit, i kinda wish we could send jodi to your prison and btw i miss your photoshop - i stlll bump for csi photo spread every time some one brings up the close up on the eye

lol, I took that CSI picture from the 9gag website, I made the one with Nurmi and their computer expert, and the one with the tiara on Willmott, the lobster bib on Nurmi and Maleficent's horns on Jodi.

[AnnieBelle]

Neither do I, but I can swear I heard the mountain of laundry cheering.



That neck wound. I tear up every single time. He didn't deserve any of what she did, but that....



I am not typically pro DP either, but I do see it fitting in certain cases, this being one of them. I felt the same way about the CA trial, and was shocked when the verdict came back. I also have my reservations with this verdict as well. I really hope that there is justice for Travis. She didn't stop killing him in the bathroom she continued the onslaught during this whole trial.

My laundry walked itself over to the washer, today. I finally gave in, and sent it for a spin.

[olgasbunghole]

Jodi will have no legitimate grounds for winning an appeal based on ineffective counsel if the DT followed her requested theory of the defense after explaining the risks to her. They could not have refused to present her case based on morality grounds. As far as stupidity, her requested line of defense would have had to be truly nonsensical before it would become a factor. (For example, Jodi claiming that aliens came down in a space ship and killed Travis.) However, if that happened, they could then claim that their client was not mentally competent to stand trial, and the problem would be resolved in that way.

An attorney leaving the case at a critical stage could be valid grounds for appeal, and chances are the attorney could be disciplined or in some cases disbarred.

Frankly, Jodi's "defense story" was actually a pretty good lie that encompassed all the evidence against her while still giving her a chance to be acquitted. I'm honestly not sure what other possible story she could have come up with to give her the chance of actual acquittal (which was obviously her goal). So Jodi made up the best story that was possible under the circumstances and rolled the dice, hoping to get lucky. If it does not work, it does not mean she had ineffective counsel.

Notice I said Jodi won't WIN an appeal on those grounds. But it doesn't mean she won't file one. I predict she will file appeals on every possible grounds that can be imagined. I mean, why not? It costs her nothing, she will have nothing else to do in prison, and there is always a chance (no matter how slight) that an appeal could get her a new trial, so unless convicted only on the lowest possible charge, she has nothing to lose and might as well file as many appeals as possible. I predict she is not going to be a Timothy McVeigh type (he did not want appeals and was executed more quickly that is usual).

I would bet that in her hunt for winning an appeal that she's gonna try sleeping her way to the top! but we can always hope that she "begs for the death penalty"!!!!!!!