Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[jingles]

Except the SVC is a massive, essential vessel feeding directly into the heart. If the SVC is cut you cannot survive any longer than it takes for all of your blood to exit your circulatory system through the hole. Massive internal bleeding limited only by the tissue around the wound. Minutes to live. What would happen if a heart surgeon accidentally cut across the SVC in surgery? Uncontrolled bleeding and death.



The real question the DEFENSE SHOULD HAVE ASKED - after he was shot, is it possible that he could have lived and done a few purposeful actions in some way for about 60 - 90 seconds? The answer is yes, it's possible. You can't rule that out.

Thanks for the visual, but yes, I'm familiar with thoracic anatomy. I actually don't see any contradiction in what I stated to what you are saying. And to address your closing argument; in fact I have assisted in the OR when a SVC has been "nicked," and yes, the patient survived.

As has been testified to, yes, it would be in all likelihood a fatal injury. Even with a team of thoracic and cardiac surgeons at hand, it is unlikely they would have time enough to enter the chest cavity and repair the damage.

However, such a wound is not immediately incapacitating, i.e. it would not result in immediate loss of motor function, consciousness or cognition. As Dr. Horn testified, Travis would have had a minute or so of sufficient enough strength and motor/neurological function to ambulate down the hallway, fumble, stumble, crawl, before losing consciousness. Even had she not slit his throat, severing the carotid arteries, he would have bled out and died shortly after collapsing.

[NCBlonde]

Back to Juror 8 for a moment.

He's been described by court-watchers as "The Notetaker". So, his dismissal disappoints me for that reason. I would assume by his description that he was very knowledgeable and very interested in learning about the case. There are other jurors who have been described as being bored, or never taking notes, etc. I would rather have seen someone who seems disinterested be given the boot.

[wasthinking]

and hopefully this one knows how to answer a fucking question!

rofl that would be nice but .. U R Dreamin
Although no matter how slow he tries to go and how much Nurmi wants to suck the $ well dry .. this Dr has been officially deemed "uncredible hired gun" by another court.

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

so is the defenses expert going to regurgitate jodis lies again?

Yes and I think the Judge is being optimistic about it taking only Wednesday to complete unless she has laid down some serious rules/law to the defense about what they can and cannot go into.

Stabby's new song is going to be "I fought the Law and the Law won!"

[ChelseyDawn]

Dr Horne did say it exited the skull, it had to, to get into the cheek in other words. In skull, out to sinus, then to cheek.

Thanks to both for clarification. I thought they stated "exit wound" as in left the head and exited Travis' body. Hence my saying it didn't exit and was lodged. Thx!

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

rofl that would be nice but .. U R Dreamin
Although no matter how slow he tries to go and how much Nurmi wants to suck the $ well dry .. this Dr has been officially deemed "uncredible hired gun" by another court.

Curious as whether or not JM will be allowed to use this to impeach Geffner?

Back to Juror 8 for a moment.

He's been described by court-watchers as "The Notetaker". So, his dismissal disappoints me for that reason. I would assume by his description that he was very knowledgeable and very interested in learning about the case. There are other jurors who have been described as being bored, or never taking notes, etc. I would rather have seen someone who seems disinterested be given the boot.

We don't know that Juror 8 was even going to be in the final twelve to deliberate. They will be chosen by lottery after final arguments.

[AnnieBelle]

Im not concerned at all about this one. The jury pegged Samuals and Alyce already. JM is going to jump out of his seat to show the association this next idiot has with Alyce! Done deal imo

I look at it in this way: Look at the past performance of Juan Martinez and his ability to cross examine defense witnesses, to know how he will handle the cross examination of this next (and God, PLEASE!!) last defense witness. He'll roast him, perfectly, and leave an apple in his gaping little mouth!

[alyoop]

rofl that would be nice but .. U R Dreamin
Although no matter how slow he tries to go and how much Nurmi wants to suck the $ well dry .. this Dr has been officially deemed "uncredible hired gun" by another court.

oH, that's right, I read that here.... doh! Thanks!

[olgasbunghole]

I just want to take a moment to thank every fellow poster and especially MDS for a place to share this experience!

you are very thoughtful, thank you too

[NCBlonde]

We have over 5 days to prepare for Jenny. Or Nurmi. I can't decide who is the lesser of two evils. UGH. I believe JS is going to limit this testimony to 1 day. I suppose that can always change, but she was pretty definitive yesterday.

My belief is that it will be Willmott questioning Dr. Geffner.

Yes and I think the Judge is being optimistic about it taking only Wednesday to complete unless she has laid down some serious rules/law to the defense about what they can and cannot go into.

Stabby's new song is going to be "I fought the Law and the Law won!"

Well, it SHOULD be that Dr. Geffner will be limited to discussing Borderline Personality Disorder, since that is the so-called "new information" that Dr. DeMarte brought into the case. The defense should not be allowed to go beyond that scope; i.e. they shouldn't be allowed to go into claiming Jodi was a victim again, or that Travis was a pedo and abuser, etc.

BUT, we all saw how that went with Nurmi yesterday; trying to drag in all sorts of things with Det. Flores, about 48 hours and Chris Hughes; things that had fuck-all to do with what Martinez questioned him about. So, I am sure that DT will try and bring other things in; probably to be objected to by Martinez and then sustained by the Judge. But, the DT motto seems to be that it's good enough even if they get those comments and questions out there for the jury, even if in the end they are not allowed to fully go into them.

I expect to see that kind of fuckery tried again.

[***JiLL***]

I'm hoping the defense doesn't take too long with direct of their next witness, give JM time to do a decent cross. But knowing the DT they will go on and on and on all day.

[alyoop]

We have over 5 days to prepare for Jenny. Or Nurmi. I can't decide who is the lesser of two evils. UGH. I believe JS is going to limit this testimony to 1 day. I suppose that can always change, but she was pretty definitive yesterday.

yes. But every time she says "court will begin promptly at that time" NEVER happens... so ya know, her definitive ONE day sorta means 5 in JSS time, like dog years?

[AnnieBelle]

I'm hoping the defense doesn't take too long with direct of their next witness, give JM time to do a decent cross. But knowing the DT they will go on and on and on all day.

The judge did say that they will stay until they are DONE.....so, I think that sends a strong message to both sides. Make this brief, and make it count. This is all you get. At least I HOPE she sticks to her guns!

[NCBlonde]

Curious as whether or not JM will be allowed to use this to impeach Geffner?



We don't know that Juror 8 was even going to be in the final twelve to deliberate. They will be chosen by lottery after final arguments.

Well, I know that, but I still think it's a detriment to the prosecution that he's not even going to be eligible. Out of the 16 jurors that we had until his dismissal, it seems the odds were pretty likely that with 12 slots available, he could've been selected.

I don't think this ruins the case or that the jury won't convict because #8 is gone. I just think had he been selected to the final jury, he would've lead a good discussion and made some good points.

All speculation on my part of course.

[Jillee]

I dunno. I'm kinda depressed... Not sure why. Maybe it's because I don't trust juries. I'm pissed at the judge. Dr Horn really should have come off more firm in his assessment (too many, "I believes"). Jurors are dropping. We have ANOTHER psychologist next week (HOLY FUCK!). Jodi's tweeting from jail. It's all just so messy! Bomb sniffing dogs. (HOLY SHIT! If there were bomb sniffing dogs around any trial I was sitting for, I'd say "um.. I saw something on TV. I really gotta go") Too much going on. It's a freaking circus. I just don't want to see her get anything less than murder1. I DON'T WANT TO SEE IT!!!! TELL ME IT'S GONNA BE ALRIGHT!!

[wasthinking]

Curious as whether or not JM will be allowed to use this to impeach Geffner?



We don't know that Juror 8 was even going to be in the final twelve to deliberate. They will be chosen by lottery after final arguments.

Should be, he used Samuals walk of shame from NJ to stab him in the heart for lack of a better phrase

[Strange Dog]

So... I live in Salinas...

Skullz, would you have a guess as to which salon she went to? I've always wondered why they didn't follow that up to see what she actually had done (like hair color?).

[PopRocks]

I dunno. I'm kinda depressed... Not sure why. Maybe it's because I don't trust juries. I'm pissed at the judge. Dr Horn really should have come off more firm in his assessment (too many, "I believes"). Jurors are dropping. We have ANOTHER psychologist next week (HOLY FUCK!). Jodi's tweeting from jail. It's all just so messy! Bomb sniffing dogs. (HOLY SHIT! If there were bomb sniffing dogs around any trial I was sitting for, I'd say "um.. I saw something on TV. I really gotta go") Too much going on. It's a freaking circus. I just don't want to see her get anything less than murder1. I DON'T WANT TO SEE IT!!!! TELL ME IT'S GONNA BE ALRIGHT!!

well, most people that follow this trial know jodi is not innocent, so we only have to hope the jury sees this too

[Cocopop]

I almost wonder if he was so fed up with this circus that he put a note in the box that radiated anger/frustration? If he did, I hope he went out with a bang.

Right ^^ My question would be "Is it possible JA was smiling when she slit Travis' throat" (just to be an ass)

The state rested today peeps. The judge just forgot to give him a second to say it. She started to release the jury and JM had to get it in there real quick. You can hear him say it twice right as the jury is about to leave.

Great catch

Camille Kimball‏@CamilleKimball36m
@ktbug1027 @azmatthews Dang autocorrect. TODAY not tray. Checking w/my colleagues, all agree he was here today till the dog came

That's what I was thinking. too. The dog came in & juror 8 is removed soon after, coincidence? But B Karas confirmed it is routine the dog does a daily sweep.

The judge did say that they will stay until they are DONE.....so, I think that sends a strong message to both sides. Make this brief, and make it count. This is all you get. At least I HOPE she sticks to her guns!

^^This^^ Nurmi better not drag out his questions & just get to the points he wants to make, else he will dishearten this jury even more so then I already think they are.


Full Moon Alert, the crazies get crazier. I have worked with thousands of people for decades to know that the old saying rings true, so on that note, I am off to golf. See y'all Wednesday if not before, enjoy your weekend

[lorizfree]

Oh I agree. I just think it would've been even more powerful to leave the jury with this last week firmly in the forefront of their mind. We're going to get all kinds of fuckery from the defense next week, trying to overshadow that.



Here's a bio I found on Dr. Geffner.

Can you imagine how many hours are going to be wasted just on his bio? There's no way this is going to only take 1 day.

[Bellaboo]

No offense, but I would take it! Would mean I would be able to see trial when I get back! I think the real problem is that Nurmi will draw out his direct with his Psych Dr and leave very little time for Juan to cross and for jury questions. I know the judge said they would go the distance but something tells me that Nurmi will drag it out and Judge Stephens will force Juan to be brief. I could be wrong but isn't that Nurmi's MO?

Hum, I feel disappointment and see a few concerns for appeals. Only time will tell. But I think her lying so much will be enough to hopefully get her Life. JSS is known as a "soft" judge so if it is a verdict that ends up on her plate, I expect more disappointment.

I feel disappointment too. Today was so anticlimactic and ends with a dull thud and a sense of foreboding with the loss of another juror. I just have a sinking feeling today

[jingles]

I dunno. I'm kinda depressed... Not sure why. Maybe it's because I don't trust juries. I'm pissed at the judge. Dr Horn really should have come off more firm in his assessment (too many, "I believes"). Jurors are dropping. We have ANOTHER psychologist next week (HOLY FUCK!). Jodi's tweeting from jail. It's all just so messy! Bomb sniffing dogs. (HOLY SHIT! If there were bomb sniffing dogs around any trial I was sitting for, I'd say "um.. I saw something on TV. I really gotta go") Too much going on. It's a freaking circus. I just don't want to see her get anything less than murder1. I DON'T WANT TO SEE IT!!!! TELL ME IT'S GONNA BE ALRIGHT!!

I feel exactly the way that you do...deflated, strangely depressed, like I want more Juan up there pounding her bs into the ground. I cannot believe that on Wednesday it will be more PTSD/DV BS, JW or Nurmi dredging up more slander of Travis! And the unconscionable way today ended...the judge not allowing JM to say, "The prosecution rests," loud and clear...the released juror (sounds as though he may have been pro prosecution; bright at the least), and then the freaking bomb/drug sniffing DOGS???

But I'll say it anyway, I do think it WILL be alright, and the jury will do the right thing and pin murder 1 on her!

[AnnieBelle]

I dunno. I'm kinda depressed... Not sure why. Maybe it's because I don't trust juries. I'm pissed at the judge. Dr Horn really should have come off more firm in his assessment (too many, "I believes"). Jurors are dropping. We have ANOTHER psychologist next week (HOLY FUCK!). Jodi's tweeting from jail. It's all just so messy! Bomb sniffing dogs. (HOLY SHIT! If there were bomb sniffing dogs around any trial I was sitting for, I'd say "um.. I saw something on TV. I really gotta go") Too much going on. It's a freaking circus. I just don't want to see her get anything less than murder1. I DON'T WANT TO SEE IT!!!! TELL ME IT'S GONNA BE ALRIGHT!!

Jillee, Jillee....sweetie......it's gonna be alright! I promise!!! LOL I feel the same way....frustrated!! I think I'm going to go shopping for some clothes! Yes, that will make me feel much better!

[ShellJett]

yes. But every time she says "court will begin promptly at that time" NEVER happens... so ya know, her definitive ONE day sorta means 5 in JSS time, like dog years?

I swear I have been living in dog years for 2 months.

[smurfy]

Is it for sure then? The defense absolutely gets its surrebuttal? (or what ever its called) Did the judge announce that today?