Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[denn]

I used Maleficent's horns instead, devil ears were too small for her

I love it!!

[denn]

Coconut, with utmost respect, I don't believe any evidence would convince you that she is guilty of the charges. You may not think the gas cans are a big deal, but they ARE. And the paper trail of how she bought gas to put IN them, is huge. It disproves her story that she had them because she wanted to get cheaper gas after crossing out of California. She lied. She lied about returning the 3rd gas can. She lied about even going IN to Az. She lied to people before the left, lied to people while she continued on her journey. The hair dye. My question to you? Why are YOU so convinced that this wasn't 1st degree.

I wished they had found the gun. That would have sealed the deal for the prosecution. I hope the jury gives her murder 1, but they can be so unpredictable.

[ShellJett]

I'm not home...bummer, but I need to ask, can't telll...is the trial proceeding at this time & if yes, who's in the box?

No, there is only a closed door hearing. Trial resumes Tuesday at 9:30 PST.

[denn]

The jury had only a few questions. Martinez didn't have any follow up except to let her answer the other question.

I bet Willmott has lots. She was scribbling like crazy. She will have as many as she can squeeze out.

Good questions overall. Only one that causes worry. Either that juror believes Jodi or likes playing devil's advocate. Hopefully they won't make the cut. Or they will see the truth in time.


ETA: Willmott is continuing on with her ridiculous behavior.

Willmont drones on and on with that squeaky voice. Ugh.

[dizzyp]

--

[I doubt it]

I will grant you that those things prove she planned an "off the grid" trip through Arizona. That does not mean she planned to murder him. She could have planned to sleep under his Christmas tree, or pee in his fishtank, or shave her head in his front yard, or some other batshit crazy Borderline Personality Disorder chick thing that she loved to do.

The defense pursued their strategy of saying that the weapons were at Travis's house (regardless of validity) specifically because The Prosecution can not place those weapons in her hands until the moment of the killing.

Yes, but if she took TA's gun, that is theft, and we then have felony murder.

[denn]

Never fails to disgust me you can bring in unsubstantiated pedophilia claims and can't bring substantiated stalking claims... I understand the law and why but it still disgusts me nonetheless.

I read where the defendants have all the rights.

[AnnieBelle]

I wished they had found the gun. That would have sealed the deal for the prosecution. I hope the jury gives her murder 1, but they can be so unpredictable.

Finding the weapon would have been nice, no doubt. But, there is NO doubt that weapons were used to cause the specific wounds suffered by TA. So, there is no doubt that a gun and a knife are involved, and that Jodi was the one who wielded them. If they had no evidence linking her to the crime, then the case would hinge on finding the weapon. In this case, they can proceed without that evidence.

[denn]

Anyone recall Demarte's answer to this juror question off the top of their heads?

Do you feel "mark my words no jury will convict me" is part of borderline personality disorder?

She said something to the effect that those words were part of her immature behavior lending to personality disorder.

[denn]

Who is Lenore Walker? What is next for the prosecution in rebuttal?

[denn]

Finding the weapon would have been nice, no doubt. But, there is NO doubt that weapons were used to cause the specific wounds suffered by TA. So, there is no doubt that a gun and a knife are involved, and that Jodi was the one who wielded them. If they had no evidence linking her to the crime, then the case would hinge on finding the weapon. In this case, they can proceed without that evidence.

Yeah, she was clever enough to know to take the gun and knife. The knife never matched any of Travis' kitchen knives. I am ready to closing arguments. Hope she gets the DP.

[coconut]

Show me some evidence he abused her. His getting pissed because she was up to nonsense doesn't count.
As far as the knife goes, she lived in a tent for several weeks, that's probably when she picked up her trusty ol' knife. Why would she reference it in an e-mail? She used it to slash his tires.
You're getting as bad as Ron_NYC! Are you Ron?

Just put The Knife or The Gun in her hands at any point in time before she got to his house. Then we know she went there prepared to kill. The Prosecution can't do that. So they talk about gas cans.

Coconut, with utmost respect, I don't believe any evidence would convince you that she is guilty of the charges. You may not think the gas cans are a big deal, but they ARE. And the paper trail of how she bought gas to put IN them, is huge. It disproves her story that she had them because she wanted to get cheaper gas after crossing out of California. She lied. She lied about returning the 3rd gas can. She lied about even going IN to Az. She lied to people before the left, lied to people while she continued on her journey. The hair dye. My question to you? Why are YOU so convinced that this wasn't 1st degree.

We know she's guilty of first degree. But The Prosecution has not proved that she planned a murder. Gas cans and hair dye are not murder weapons. Liars lie, it doesn't make them guilty of planning murder. Borderline Personality gals do wacky, emotionally unpredictable stuff. The Prosecution says she can flip a switch and lose her mind, maybe that's what happened in that bathroom? Juanito has proven she planned a stealthy trip with many gas cans, that doesn't prove she planned murder.

[denn]

Circumstantial leads to pre-meditataion:

1. Gas cans
2.Car rental
3. Change of hair color
4. Stolen gun
5. Calling and leaving message after killing to establish an alibi.
6. Turning cell off and then on again after reaching Utah border.


I am ready for JM to sum it all up.

[denn]

Willmont drones on and on with that squeaky voice. Ugh.

Seemed to me, Willmont was attempting to immitate JM yesterday. It was a sorry sight.

[denn]

I am wondering if Stabby does not need glasses. A thought crossed my mind reading about her headaches. If she does not need them, she would get headaches. Perhaps the defense is making her wear them because it makes her look so much more normal. A method defense attorneys use in dressing their clients.

[poppym]

Not challenging you at all! Curiously, here's what Albert Einstein is being quoted on common sense.

"Common Sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by the age of eighteen."

http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/254.html

Ha Ha! He's so right! Conditioned? That we are!

I suppose it depends on the prejudices we have acquired!

[I doubt it]

Just put The Knife or The Gun in her hands at any point in time before she got to his house. Then we know she went there prepared to kill. The Prosecution can't do that. So they talk about gas cans.



We know she's guilty of first degree. But The Prosecution has not proved that she planned a murder. Gas cans and hair dye are not murder weapons. Liars lie, it doesn't make them guilty of planning murder. Borderline Personality gals do wacky, emotionally unpredictable stuff. The Prosecution says she can flip a switch and lose her mind, maybe that's what happened in that bathroom? Juanito has proven she planned a stealthy trip with many gas cans, that doesn't prove she planned murder.

Coco - stop acting like Ron!

The jurors do not have to agree on premeditated or felony murder. Those, like you, who want to see the gun in her hand, then have to answer the question, "Did she steal Travis' gun?"

[So and So]

When is this trial going to end?! It started before my spring semester, which is nearly over now. I feel so badly for everyone who has to out their lives on hold for months on end because of Jodi. Not to mention the families involved, who have been at this for years now.

Make it stop!!!

[AnnieBelle]

Just put The Knife or The Gun in her hands at any point in time before she got to his house. Then we know she went there prepared to kill. The Prosecution can't do that. So they talk about gas cans.



We know she's guilty of first degree. But The Prosecution has not proved that she planned a murder. Gas cans and hair dye are not murder weapons. Liars lie, it doesn't make them guilty of planning murder. Borderline Personality gals do wacky, emotionally unpredictable stuff. The Prosecution says she can flip a switch and lose her mind, maybe that's what happened in that bathroom? Juanito has proven she planned a stealthy trip with many gas cans, that doesn't prove she planned murder.

I believe they have.....The gas cans, the lie about the 3rd gas can being returned (why lie at all, in this case?), the strange and erratic pattern of buying the gas in small amounts...different gas stations in very close proximity to each other, and the majority are cash purchases. The lying about going to AZ. The hair dying. The license plate fiasco, and the fact that she rented a car from a rental facility far from home. There is NO doubt that she had a knife and a gun, and that she killed Travis. The photos show that the timeline of the killing as swift and brutal...within seconds. The weapons were right at her hand. They were not just lying around when Travis got into the shower, I'm certain. Even if she decided, 5 minutes prior, that she was going to get the weapons and kill him....THAT is pre-meditation. Also, BPD "chicks" don't typically go around murdering people. Are they all over the map, emotionally, at times? Sure. So are people with bi-polar, people with forms of depression, etc. The prosecution does NOT say she flipped a switch....they say it was planned and as brutal as they come. The DEFENSE is trying to say she snapped, because of her fears of battered women's syndrome and that she thought Travis was going to harm her. Look at Jodi's wounds vs. TA's wounds.......there was NO combat, that day. He was led to the slaughter, like a lamb. And BPD was not the cause. Rage and greed and jealousy were more in line with her motive. I know 3 people, in real life, who have the diagnosis of BPD. All are very difficult people to reason with, to say the least. Their main tool in living their life is manipulation of others, because they want what they want, when they want it, and how they want it. If you don't go along with it, you quickly jump to the top of their shit list. I am probably at the top of the shit list of all 3, at the moment. But, they don't go around killing those they don't like.

[CMB76]

I am wondering if Stabby does not need glasses. A thought crossed my mind reading about her headaches. If she does not need them, she would get headaches. Perhaps the defense is making her wear them because it makes her look so much more normal. A method defense attorneys use in dressing their clients.

I've always wondered if her lenses were just plain plastic/glass. (No Rx)

[*crickets*]

Just put The Knife or The Gun in her hands at any point in time before she got to his house. Then we know she went there prepared to kill. The Prosecution can't do that. So they talk about gas cans.

We know she's guilty of first degree. But The Prosecution has not proved that she planned a murder. Gas cans and hair dye are not murder weapons.

Here's what I think proves premed: the gun--

- .25 cal "stolen" from grandparents 2 days after angry email from TA and 1 week prior to TA being shot, also with a .25 cal gun.

-Jodi's story of how she retrieved the gun was impossible, b/c the closet shelf she said she stepped on to reach the gun would have collapsed and/or tipped under her weight, and police photos show the closet contents were completely undisturbed. (I believe the pros. showed this decisively with close-up photos of the shelves.)

(Also, the timeline of the deleted photos shows there was not enough time between the last photo of TA alive and the first bloody pic for her to have been body-slammed, run into the closet, retrieved the gun, shot him, searched for and found the knife, etc. etc.)

So, there are 2 options for the gun: either it was in TA's closet (murder could be self-defense) or not (she brought it with her, therefore premeditated.)

[I doubt it]

I've always wondered if her lenses were just plain plastic/glass. (No Rx)

Jodi said she put on some jail-mate's glasses one day and all of a sudden she could see. The first days of court she wore several different pairs of glasses until she settled on these. That's typical Jodi stuff.
Who knows. When I first got my glasses the doctor told me DO NOT wear them all the time. Maybe she is slightly near-sighted.

[coconut]

That's just a summary of your feelings, intuition, and the same recycled evidence that she wanted to fly under the radar in Arizona.

Nobody on this forum, not even The Great Juan Martinez, can put THE gun or THE knife in her hands before she gets to Travis's house. Juan has presented no conclusive evidence that the knife & gun were in her hands before she says they were. I think that's a problem for proving first degree murder.

I believe they have.....The gas cans, the lie about the 3rd gas can being returned (why lie at all, in this case?), the strange and erratic pattern of buying the gas in small amounts...different gas stations in very close proximity to each other, and the majority are cash purchases. The lying about going to AZ. The hair dying. The license plate fiasco, and the fact that she rented a car from a rental facility far from home. There is NO doubt that she had a knife and a gun, and that she killed Travis. The photos show that the timeline of the killing as swift and brutal...within seconds. The weapons were right at her hand. They were not just lying around when Travis got into the shower, I'm certain. Even if she decided, 5 minutes prior, that she was going to get the weapons and kill him....THAT is pre-meditation. Also, BPD "chicks" don't typically go around murdering people. Are they all over the map, emotionally, at times? Sure. So are people with bi-polar, people with forms of depression, etc. The prosecution does NOT say she flipped a switch....they say it was planned and as brutal as they come. The DEFENSE is trying to say she snapped, because of her fears of battered women's syndrome and that she thought Travis was going to harm her. Look at Jodi's wounds vs. TA's wounds.......there was NO combat, that day. He was led to the slaughter, like a lamb. And BPD was not the cause. Rage and greed and jealousy were more in line with her motive. I know 3 people, in real life, who have the diagnosis of BPD. All are very difficult people to reason with, to say the least. Their main tool in living their life is manipulation of others, because they want what they want, when they want it, and how they want it. If you don't go along with it, you quickly jump to the top of their shit list. I am probably at the top of the shit list of all 3, at the moment. But, they don't go around killing those they don't like.

[*crickets*]

Yes, but if she took TA's gun, that is theft, and we then have felony murder.

Actually, the prosecution's charge of felony murder is based on their contention that once Jodi attacked TA, she was no longer lawfully in his home, which = burglary, which is the felony. Their position is that there was no gun in TA's house so they can't turn around and say she stole his (nonexistant) gun.

The jurors do not have to agree on premeditated or felony murder. Those, like you, who want to see the gun in her hand, then have to answer the question, "Did she steal Travis' gun?"

Yes, they do have to agree on either premeditated or felony murder to get a murder 1 conviction.

[Iluvsam]

Just put The Knife or The Gun in her hands at any point in time before she got to his house. Then we know she went there prepared to kill. The Prosecution can't do that. So they talk about gas cans.



We know she's guilty of first degree. But The Prosecution has not proved that she planned a murder. Gas cans and hair dye are not murder weapons. Liars lie, it doesn't make them guilty of planning murder. Borderline Personality gals do wacky, emotionally unpredictable stuff. The Prosecution says she can flip a switch and lose her mind, maybe that's what happened in that bathroom? Juanito has proven she planned a stealthy trip with many gas cans, that doesn't prove she planned murder.

You certainly have been watching too much CSI and reading the JAII site.
There is a thing named common sense; there are no coincidences in this trial. Explain to me the stalking behavior, explain to me why if Travis had a gun as she said, they never found other bullets in the house, or a holster, or a case, explain to me why would someone steal a 25 caliber gun and leave the rest of the guns? explain to me the need of rent a car with three gas cans (no red please!!, it is too noticeable), explain to me why would you say you wanted to save on gas but put gas in CA instead of ZA, explain to me the license plates, explain to me the absence of receipts from AZ, explain to me her behavior after the killing. All these things separately can be seen as harmless, but when you tie them together and use your COMMON SENSE, you then can conclude what most people with a little bit of brain: She planned to go, and she planned the killing.