Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[wasthinking]

If you scroll to Page 37 of this document link below, it has the motion to withdraw by Victoria Washington:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/document...c_id=109828551

It doesn't specifically say MM, but it does say someone involved in the trial.

It doesn't say the trial, it says case, that's a little different. I's been quite awhile ago, but I sat one night on the court site plugging in names I could think of and got nothing linked showing her as their attorney. By saying 'case' it wouldn't be limited to just the trial or like testifying for instance. I even tried Matt, nothing there, he's not been charged in AZ with anything. Then I thought wow, maybe on Travis' side. Didn't find a link to anything there either but I think they are all in California anyway too. Intrigues me a lot though.

[Brillig]

Its counsel not council. I have more credentials than Alyce...

Touche.

are we 100% sure that's not Alyce La ViolettePlanet??

I have indeed noticed that dealing with a sociopath is difficult. They are maddening. There is no reasoning with them. They are often unable to grasp normal social cues.



And they don't get sarcasm.

[queenaevadamthng]

[Quoting Brillig: Touche.*]

Or as Oswald Bates would say..Douche'..lmao

[ShellJett]

[QUOTE=Sayub;3388598]
Snipped for space

Interesting article from Bennett Pologe, Ph.D. - Credentials - Types of Psychotherapists

The term "psychotherapist" is unlicensed; anyone -- and I mean anyone -- can call himself a psychotherapist. The same applies to the term "therapist". "Psychologist", on the other hand, requires some kind of licensure. The practitioner cannot call himself by this title unless he has met certain state and national requirements.

http://www.aboutpsychotherapy.com/Tcredentials.php


Thanks Sayub. Saw that article recently but couldn't find it when I wanted to post it.

[bryanwasdrunk]

Yes, she testified to counseling abused males more than once.....listen to her past testimony again.

Yes, she spoke at some length about her group for abusive men. She even directly compared the prosecutor to one of them and said she would put him in "time out" if she was counseling him. The only examples of abused men she acknowledges are two men who were abused by other men.

[sheesh]

ps don't we have a bomb icon?

[Peace Corpse]

Touche

Read my previous post to METIS. Make sense? It seems to me that when one resorts to calling out spelling mistakes which everyone makes at one time or another, then we are simply grasping for straws. I am here to figure out the details of this case and stick to the facts. Erroneous pissing competitions are a waste of time, don't you think?

[bryanwasdrunk]

[Quoting Brillig: Touche.*]

Or as Oswald Bates would say..Douche'..lmao

OMG, I loved those sketches on In Living Color.
Whenever I heard Jodi misuse big words, I totally thought of that.

[Peace Corpse]

Yes, she spoke at some length about her group for abusive men. She even directly compared the prosecutor to one of them and said she would put him in "time out" if she was counseling him. The only examples of abused men she acknowledges are two men who were abused by other men.

No, she only said because of JM's overly aggressive questioning TO HER that he should take a "time out". She was obviously not counseling him. How could that be? We are in a court of law here. What I heard from her is that she has a male group and a female group of abused and abusers and also does couples counseling with both sexes.

[queenaevadamthng]

Ever since I started watching this trial I kept thinking about Oswald when Hodi would start talking about whoredoms, rectifying (or should I say rectalfy)..lmao

[Peace Corpse]

[Quoting Brillig: Touche.*]

Or as Oswald Bates would say..Douche'..lmao

Hilarious...that you both are so thrilled that I made a spelling mistake....but my human error (which I can bet all of us of have been guilty of) has nothing to do with this thread or the murder of Travis Alexander that we all profess to care about so completely...correct?

[AgathaAppleswine]

No, she only said because of JM's overly aggressive questioning TO HER that he should take a "time out". She was obviously not counseling him. How could that be? We are in a court of law here. What I heard from her is that she has a male group and a female group of abused and abusers and also does couples counseling with both sexes.

No, she said that if Juan were a member of her group, she would put him in time out. Which was totally uncalled for. He was not being super-aggressive, and even if he was coming on strongly, she was being a bitch by refusing to give a fricking answer.

Yes or no questions were impossible to answer. She played dumb, like she had no idea what he was saying half the time, and many times she tried to use Jodi's trick of suggesting the Prosecutor was just so mean, it makes women's heads scramble. Bullshit. She just didn't want to answer any questions that may look unfavorably upon Stabby or her examination of Stabster.

[Peace Corpse]

No, she said that if Juan were a member of her group, she would put him in time out. Which was totally uncalled for. He was not being super-aggressive, and even if he was coming on strongly, she was being a bitch by refusing to give a fricking answer.

Yes or no questions were impossible to answer. She played dumb, like she had no idea what he was saying half the time, and many times she tried to use Jodi's trick of suggesting the Prosecutor was just so mean, it makes women's heads scramble. Bullshit. She just didn't want to answer any questions that may look unfavorably upon Stabby or her examination of Stabster.

I remember her saying that if JM were in her group, she would have given him a time out. In my opinion, JM was overly aggressive with her. If you want to get the answers you want, you don't intimidate a witness to do so... you gently proceed and suck it out of them step by step. Don't think she played dumb re: yes or no questions. I think in her mind and expertise and the incomplete evidence the defense gave her....that it was impossible for her to answer yes or no in some cases. Also keep in mind that this case is not the "burning bed" scenario which was an obvious case of horrific domestic abuse. She had to deal with pathological Jodi with the juxtaposition of the Hughes testimony and other friends.... from Travis text messages and phonecalls, diaries etc.

Alyce is entitled to her opinion and diagnosis based on the information she was given by the defense...which was obviously incomplete to their and her demise.

[ShellJett]

No, she said that if Juan were a member of her group, she would put him in time out. Which was totally uncalled for. He was not being super-aggressive, and even if he was coming on strongly, she was being a bitch by refusing to give a fricking answer.

Yes or no questions were impossible to answer. She played dumb, like she had no idea what he was saying half the time, and many times she tried to use Jodi's trick of suggesting the Prosecutor was just so mean, it makes women's heads scramble. Bullshit. She just didn't want to answer any questions that may look unfavorably upon Stabby or her examination of Stabster.

Even though I wasn't seated in the witness chair, I had no problem understanding the questions. I don't have ALV's CV, but for God's sake I could have answered the questions. Her cutesy comebacks came off as completely planned, and she even brought her own cheering section. I said it once, I will say it again. Who does that?

[Mousy]

What's wrong?

Spent five dollars and shot Willmott a message. I was nice about it. She saw it ten minutes after I sent it to her. Ever since I've been spazzing out. I think I'm just starstruck.

[Peace Corpse]

Even though I wasn't seated in the witness chair, I had no problem understanding the questions. I don't have ALV's CV, but for God's sake I could have answered the questions. Her cutesy comebacks came off as completely planned, and she even brought her own cheering section. I said it once, I will say it again. Who does that?

Nothing cutesy in my observation. Those expert witnesses who are not given all the required evidence from the defense team that hired them, are bound to fail. Whose fault is this?

[Harlette]

[M Joy]

Spent five dollars and shot Willmott a message. I was nice about it. She saw it ten minutes after I sent it to her. Ever since I've been spazzing out. I think I'm just starstruck.

What did you say?

[wasthinking]

No, she said that if Juan were a member of her group, she would put him in time out. Which was totally uncalled for. He was not being super-aggressive, and even if he was coming on strongly, she was being a bitch by refusing to give a fricking answer.

Yes or no questions were impossible to answer. She played dumb, like she had no idea what he was saying half the time, and many times she tried to use Jodi's trick of suggesting the Prosecutor was just so mean, it makes women's heads scramble. Bullshit. She just didn't want to answer any questions that may look unfavorably upon Stabby or her examination of Stabster.

you are right of course.

[AnnieBelle]

Thanks for the spelling correction. Your expertise lies in psychiatry true... You are a medical doctor able to prescribe drugs to those who have mental disorders. However, you are not a psychotherapist nor an expert counselor in domestic violence abuse. Correct? Do you have any therapeutic credentials in "Domestic Violence Abuse"? Obviously you must be able to understand mental illness in order to prescribe drugs for the many mental illnesses present in our society but you are not a psychotherapist, nor a domestic abuse counselor correct? Or are we misunderstanding each other? Your degree, your work/expertise was /is in psychiatry, right?

Ummmmm, yes, a psychiatrist is able to do psychotherapy, VP. LOL.

[Morticia]

I second that

[Peace Corpse]

you are right of course.

Yes, as I stated in my above comment, Alyce says according to the evidence you just presented, that "if you were in my group, I'd put you in a timeout." Yes true. Now please read the rest of my comment above. From Alyce's POV, JM was overly aggressive to her not only here but in previous cross-examination. WE all know JM's style is that of a pit bull. There is nothing wrong with a defense or even a prosecution witness to request a gentler tone from someone who obviously makes it clear that he is unwilling or perhaps unable to control his overly aggressive tone. Interestingly enough, JM's aggressive tone...became more subdued towards the end of his questioning of Alyce.

[Sayub]

In all the video footage that?s out I?ve never heard the parents say that JA was suicidal ? just ef?d up.


Mother Questioned by Det. Flores, July 2008

Mother: Jodi has mental problems. Jodi would freak out all the time. I had quite a few of her friends call & tell me that I needed to get her some help. We don?t have a good relationship, me & Jodi. She would just totally flip out on me & I had one of her friend?s call me in the middle of the night - call us one night & say you need to get Jodi some help . . . . . . . . . . . . And her friend called me one day & he said he had called some hotline to ask them questions about what she was doing & they said, ?sounds like she really needs some help? but she wouldn?t do anything.

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/04/0...-interrogation



Trail Day 16, JA on stand being questioned by Nurmi (started at 3:16)

Nurmi: Now this specific argument where he grabs you, throws you down, restrains you a 2nd time when you get to leave what was the thing that was so important that Travis wanted to do, insult your family or was it something else?

JA: He just kept ranting & raving & yelling

Nurmi: You don?t remember about what?

JA: Honestly my brain sort of just went on freeze & I don?t remember a lot of what he was saying it was just killing.

Nurmi: Okay. Why wasn?t this day, the day he throws you down, the day he grabs you, the day he won?t let you leave the room, the day he insults what he believes are insults to your family why wasn?t that the last day you saw Travis? Last day.

JA: Well, it was going to be because when I was leaving the stairs or going downstairs he followed me all the way out to my car just saying one mean thing after another & then his tone changed to something very friendly but it was artificial friendly & he said I have a great idea & he said how about you move to Antarctica & never call me again & I said mine is Antarctica sure & I was getting into the car & after my leg got into the car he slammed the door hard & I started to drive away so I thought we were not going to talk at that point. Um, it was a very low point for me, I . . . throughout the fall I was feeling suicidal so I thought that was kind of a point where I decided I wanted to um go through with that so um I called my friend Matt because he had guns a n d I was going to ask him if I could borrow one because I wanted to kill myself ? a n d he could tell I, I don?t know he called a suicide hotline & had me call them & he called my dad or my parents and as I was on the phone with Matt, Travis began calling again as I was driving back home and um I wanted to answer because Travis always apologized after he had been very mean & I thought maybe this is his apology, um, but sometimes he took a while to calm down so it could just be more of the same of his anger so I hung up anyway with Matt & I answered the phone & Travis was very sweet & very calm & he was telling me to come back & he was too harsh on me & he felt bad & I need to help him make his bed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...mDuW4#t=14060s

[AgathaAppleswine]

I remember her saying that if JM were in her group, she would have given him a time out. In my opinion, JM was overly aggressive with her. If you want to get the answers you want, you don't intimidate a witness to do so... you gently proceed and suck it out of them step by step. Don't think she played dumb re: yes or no questions. I think in her mind and expertise and the incomplete evidence the defense gave her....that it was impossible for her to answer yes or no in some cases. Also keep in mind that this case is not the "burning bed" scenario which was an obvious case of horrific domestic abuse. She had to deal with pathological Jodi with the juxtaposition of the Hughes testimony and other friends.... from Travis text messages and phonecalls, diaries etc.

Alyce is entitled to her opinion and diagnosis based on the information she was given by the defense...which was obviously incomplete to their and her demise.

Alyce is indeed entitled to her opinion. But since she had incomplete information, the best thing she could have done on the stand is to admit, "I did not have that information, and thus, my diagnosis is faulty". Not to mention that she decided that Travis was the abuser, despite the fact that he voiced the fear he had of Jodi to people. And he said that he was 'nothing more than a dildo with a heartbeat" to Jodi.

Men who are abusers don't claim that they are being used sexually. They'll do any slur against the woman, but they woul never admit that they feel so low about themselves to their victim. Abuse is about power, remember.

If Alyce had said even once, "The relationship was troubled, and there were times when Mr. Alexander seemed to feel vulnerable", then I would have respect for Alyce and her opinions.

She has a right to her opinion, but she (and you) shouldn't be shocked that she gets bitch-slapped because her opinions are dumb and based on faulty information.

What makes Alyce even worse is that once she was confronted with the truth, or with more evidence she didn't know of, she didn't say, "You know, I will have to think about this, and revisit my opinion now that I have this information". No. She didn't do that. She didn't consider the new evidence. Why? Because she had decided that Jodi was the victim, and anyone who ever said anything mean to her was just them being abusive.

That's just BS.

And finally, even if she had evidence that she'd reviewed, she discounted anything that made Jodi appear to bad. Jodi used men and flirted with them at the Purple Plum? Oh, that's ok. It happened after the murder (like that makes any difference, geez). What? Travis said he was afraid of Jodi? He probably was exaggerating, or just lying. Since he lied about being a virgin, that makes him a liar. Any lies Jodi said were all after Travis was murdered, which apparently makes them all ok. Jodi kicked her mom? That's not abuse. That's just a teenager being a teenager.

Alyce chose to make Jodi a victim, despite mountains of evidence that proved the contrary.

Alyce had no knowledge of Travis. Not really. She read a handful of carefully selected emails and texts, and decided based on this that she knew enough of Travis to imply he was abusive. She took Jodi's word for much of the abuse -- the emails and texts showed that Travis was a young man who struggled in his relationships, and that he was sexually hungry, but there was NEVER a sign of abuse, unless you apply Alyce's broad definition of it. No sign of pedophilia, no sign that Travis ever raped Jodi, no sign of physical abuse.

Alyce's opinions are shit, and Juan treated them with the proper disdain. Treating Alyce with a lot of respect or handling her with kidd gloves might have lent Alyce more credibility than she deserves.

And Juan is not there to be nice to the defense. He is there to speak for the victim, who is no longer able to speak for himself.

[hatchan]

Thanks for the spelling correction. Your expertise lies in psychiatry true... You are a medical doctor able to prescribe drugs to those who have mental disorders. However, you are not a psychotherapist nor an expert counselor in domestic violence abuse. Correct? Do you have any therapeutic credentials in "Domestic Violence Abuse"? Obviously you must be able to understand mental illness in order to prescribe drugs for the many mental illnesses present in our society but you are not a psychotherapist, nor a domestic abuse counselor correct? Or are we misunderstanding each other? Your degree, your work/expertise was /is in psychiatry, right?

omg! are you kidding?