Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[marycontrary]

Totally. And, she was still interested and intrigued by Travis and the challenge of winning him. Why doesn't this man want me as his girlfriend? Nothing is more attractive to a woman than acting like you're not really serious about her, and telling her that you are seeing other women. "I don't really want a girlfriend right now" translates into "how can I make this man want me for his girlfriend!!!??? At all costs!!!"

Really, women are like this? Maybe highly competitive, narcissistic girls like Jodi.

I've been labelled as pro-defense. Even to me, the heinous and pre-planned nature of her crime, coupled with her complete inability to admit any guilt for anything in her life ever, make her deserving of the harshest punishment.

The crime scene photos and physical evidence transcend anything the defense can say. You have gallons of blood and a shell casing vs. a million words of bullshit.

I find the defense case and all their trickery interesting on an intellectual level. I respect their creativity and ability to adapt, like guerilla warfare. I enjoy rooting for the underdog... can the rebel fighters take down the Death Star? Maybe with a dirty trick, but we all know the Death Star comes back for Round 2. Return Of The Jodi.

I suppose it wouldn't be fair to not defend her. In the end, her defense is her decision and her choice on the methods of guerilla warefare. Kurt and Jenny are doing their best with what they have to work with. Jodi is like the president, sending her generals into battle, to fight a lost cause. It would be interesting to know what they think of Jodi. Do they try to figure her out like we do? I always enjoy your posts coconut

[PopRocks]

saying that "Travis should have known better" shouldn't have let her in his house or slept with her, blah, blah, blah--- is exactly the same as saying s battered woman that stays with her batterer, sleeps in his bed etc. deserves whatever she gets because she should have been smart enough to leave before the violence ended in murder. Blaming the victim in any way is... ridiculous and shameful. No one expects to be murdered. duh.

+1

[wasthinking]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK7IeqBIKFo

32:42 Juan starts cross in his normal tone of voice. Firm but not raised.

AL is deliberately evasive and being obtuse and combative

38:47 Yes or no! ...
AL pulls her 'are you angry at me'

Her PLANTS not only laugh but make it very loud acting up.

JM even with that nonsense going on starts in a normal voice despite laughing and says, "Ma'am is that relevant to you'
'Is that important to you'

38:54 Judge FINALLY admonishes laughing
Juan continues on firm but is NOT screaming
AL evades again and then Juan goes a notch up "Yes or No"
AL looks to her sceamers as if they can help her again.
JW objects, judge said overruled, Juan asks again in a normal voice.
40:50 Juan still questioning in a normal voice [several questions about what she reviewed / looked at for this case
42:40 JM again in a normal voice "did you use this ....
AL evading not answer the question she was asked again.
42:43 JM in a normal voice, "yes or no .... "
JW objects, she's trying to answer and he interrupted her

Judge overrules obviously she understood it was a yes or no question.

42:47 JM repeats again in normal voice, yes or no

AL smart ass says its not a yes or no evading again and adds her combating "do you want the truth.." comment despite the judge just ruling on yes or no!

42:55 JM even now remains normal voice "Ma'am I'm asking you questions, you seem to be having trouble answering my questions ..
43:00 AL interrupts JM cutting him off 'I have trouble ..
JM cuts back in
JM responds in normal tone "if you have a problem understanding the question ask me that, if you want to spar with me, do you want to spar with me but even here he was not raising his voice "screaming".
JW objection
Sustained
Nurmi may we approach, long bench
45:19 JM returns to same question! with regard to this exhibit, you did refer to it, yes or no in nomral voice
AL I did refer to it
JM has to repeat 'yes or no' yet again but he does it in a normal voice.
AL pause, yes I referred to it' then looking at defense like they can overrule the judge or something WTF

JM continues questioning in normal voice. Only a couple questions and AL is back to being obtuse and cutting off JM
He still goes on in a normal voice
AL goes on with more of her evasive BS
46:44 JM still keeps a normal voice.
47:05 AL plays her dumb act
JM still keep a normal voice
'do you remember talking about the journals'

Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evXtpK3FsWs
JM still normal voice 'who had the power in that relationship the king or the queen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPG4jBugKbA

After court
Laughers, INCLUDING mitigation specialist wait for Alyce smart ass and walk out like musketeers with arms warped around.

[Peace Corpse]

There is evidence that he opened the door for her?


How do you know that the photos weren't done under duress (i.e. gunpoint)?

Hilarious, the lengths some people will go to. Look at Travis's face in his "could be" Playgirl spread. It's all hanging out.... nicely exposed. Free and relaxed. No shrinkage present it seems unless he had a mega-cock. Maybe, they had just finished and Jodi pulled out her camera. His Face is truly relaxed as well. He loved their sexual documentation perhaps. He didn't fight it, obviously. Who took the pictures of Jodi's most intimate parts close up. Ass and Vag in PERFECT focus. Who? A man in duress. Don't think so....

[Strange Dog]

Thanks to Crickets, M Joy, Harlette and Wasthinking for the info on the charges. I'm way behind you MDS-ers (and so glad I found you).

[Peace Corpse]

[QUOTE=dianalyn;3379295]

No it hasn't. It's been spoken of, and brought up by the defense. The prosecutor is trying to steer clear of the stalker issue, since it's not able to be proven. It's too prejudicial to bring up, and could become an issue on appeals if he pursues it. So he doesn't.

Unbelievable... simply unbelievable....so you also agree that Jodi's OBVIOUS stalking in this case does not matter.. I wonder if I had a different opinion..... maybe I should say, Travis was correct in ignoring Jodi's obsessive ways. Maybe it was OK for her to come thru his doggy door, sleep under the Christmas tree, slash his other girlfriends tires, break into his private social and email accounts. etc Is that it? Really? And for him to choose to continue to engage with her....which eventually led to his horrible murder. This is what you all are saying?

Please think of the future. Please think of poor Travis, please.

[wasthinking]

Thanks to Crickets, M Joy, Harlette and Wasthinking for the info on the charges. I'm way behind you MDS-ers (and so glad I found you).

A few stats :)

http://www.youtube.com/user/croakerqueen123/videos

Day 41

Def Peg Bundy starts the day
6,924 views
Peg Bundy drones on and one 10,013 views

Part 3 Juan Martinez starts cross 32,206

Even the 'After court juror #5' beat out JW and AL's droning 19,816 views

[I doubt it]

Oh that little detail, LOL thanks M Joy

I have a theory about Alyce approaching Samantha.
She did that as a planned plot to play make sure she had an opening early on for her ' are you mad at me' and had PLANTED laughers. Notice on the video her laughers, espeically the one that made sure to be real loud (brunette on the far left seat) and the blonde in yellow next to her, are the same two women that wait for Alyce to finish hugging Nurmi, wrap they arms around Alyce to walk out that day all three hooked together. She approached poor Samantha to deliberately fire up Juan. Im not one for injecting into this trial, but I hope this shit is brought to the Judge's attention and those two plants have a baliff standing right by them, waiting to kick them out. And the judge needs to be told / shown the disruptive plants were arm and arm with Alyce.

I think they were planted by the DT, not just Alyce. Because JW ended her direct with her 2 jokes mocking Martinez. And Alyce's "Are you mad at me?" came too early, when JM wasn't even mad. The whole thing was an attempt to make Martinez look bad.
Did you catch the exchange between Nurmi and Martinez, right after the jury left. Nurmi wanted to discuss something with the judge, and Martinez said, "Oh no, the judge wants to see me in chambers." Then he looks at Stephens, and says, "Right?" I think that's when they talked about LaViolette approaching Samantha.
I also don't think it was an accident that 5 was sitting right behind them. We've had screenies on this thread showing her and Donovan looking very unhappy. I think 5 was planted by the judge. Hopefully we'll find out more Monday.
You have to read KCL's notes on WS to get the gist of the Donovan thing. I don't have the link right now.

[marycontrary]

The Dr. Phil show will probably try to steer clear and keep whatever has gone on between them and the Arias family on the waaayyy down low. In the professional community they can now see that AL won't be able to wash the stink of this case off of herself with super duper deskunkerizor.

I have mixed feelings for the Arias family. I cannot imagine the pain they are going through. They have had problems with Jodi her entire life it seems. Sometimes good people have bad kids. I have seen it in my own family, having a relative who will never see life outside of prison. If they could handle their situation like Dahmer's father, then it could be an interesting interview. You have to give them credit for not being like the Anthonys.

AL will survive. She works with gov agencies and politicians. She may not sell a lot of books and her speaking engagements may be filled with hecklers. She looks about ready to retire and was hoping to pad that retirement account with Jodi profits. I cannot imagine being a man and being court ordered into her group for batterers. No doubt abuse against women is horrible, but I'm sure there are many men accused of things they did not do. That teen-mom gal that beat on her boyfriend...had the camera not been there and she called the police with a red mark from beating on her BF, you know they would charge him. It would be a good thing to bring the issues of battered men and stalker women into the public eye.

[I doubt it]

So the meeting with ALV and Judge S I feel certain was related to what happened right after she requested a break, just before the normal 3pm break time.

I sat there and watched her walk off the stand and the entire family had left except Sam was still sitting there in her seat on the aisle. ALV walked directl to her, leaned in and started "close talking " with her. I instantly went in to protection mode so stood right there wondering WTH is she doing? She then stood up and did some kind of arm move and shrug that would be something you'd do if you were saying something like "well what can we do?".

What I know is this is ILLEGAL. Any representative for the defense CANNOT by law contact a victim/victim's family due to the Victim's Bill of Rights. I was incensed!

All of the journalists were fixated on Juror 5 so no one really caught it.

There's more to that post from Katiecoolady on Websleuths
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...203990&page=28

[wasthinking]

I think they were planted by the DT, not just Alyce. Because JW ended her direct with her 2 jokes mocking Martinez. And Alyce's "Are you mad at me?" came too early, when JM wasn't even mad. The whole thing was an attempt to make Martinez look bad.
Did you catch the exchange between Nurmi and Martinez, right after the jury left. Nurmi wanted to discuss something with the judge, and Martinez said, "Oh no, the judge wants to see me in chambers." Then he looks at Stephens, and says, "Right?" I think that's when they talked about LaViolette approaching Samantha.
I also don't think it was an accident that 5 was sitting right behind them. We've had screenies on this thread showing her and Donovan looking very unhappy. I think 5 was planted by the judge. Hopefully we'll find out more Monday.
You have to read KCL's notes on WS to get the gist of the Donovan thing. I don't have the link right now.

8:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evXtpK3FsWs
Actually it was the judge that said, anything else for today and JM said, just the issue you said you would discuss in private.
Nurmi then said, I'm sorry I didn't hear him and JM turns to Nurmi and repeats "just the issue thejudge indicated she would address in private.
Nurmi doesn't saying anything, the judge said, ah yes why don't we go back and she points to her back hall they go to from time to time.

But yes, I agree, it was probably Alyce issue since she too stupid to know proper court decorum and AZ laws

I don't believe a judge would plant those two laughing morons. And Donovan wasn't laughing with them (see my snapshots I posted). But I don't doubt for a minute any trick dirty def would pull. Obviously the mitigation specialist was in on it! Plus, Alyce and Nurmi hugging, WHAT professional expert does that out in the middle of court when they are excuse from the witness stand by the judge ?!!!!!!!?
And I'd bet my house that is why AL asked for an early break and confronted poor Samantha- to set up their whole dirty pool shit right before they knew JM was coming up to bat soon. Something seriously wrong with this Alyce! She has NO professionalism and acts like Jodi!

[wasthinking]

I have mixed feelings for the Arias family. I cannot imagine the pain they are going through. They have had problems with Jodi her entire life it seems. Sometimes good people have bad kids. I have seen it in my own family, having a relative who will never see life outside of prison. If they could handle their situation like Dahmer's father, then it could be an interesting interview. You have to give them credit for not being like the Anthonys.

AL will survive. She works with gov agencies and politicians. She may not sell a lot of books and her speaking engagements may be filled with hecklers. She looks about ready to retire and was hoping to pad that retirement account with Jodi profits. I cannot imagine being a man and being court ordered into her group for batterers. No doubt abuse against women is horrible, but I'm sure there are many men accused of things they did not do. That teen-mom gal that beat on her boyfriend...had the camera not been there and she called the police with a red mark from beating on her BF, you know they would charge him. It would be a good thing to bring the issues of battered men and stalker women into the public eye.

Yes, normally I am not a blame the parent person at all and my heart might go out to them if they acted like they had an ounce of class or compassion! But this is a POS we see before us with family---- WTF!
The Dad and TEEN son only came to court to hear the sextape days.
The mother, trying to sell forged pedo letters to the National Enquire
Mother and her sister sit in there laughing it up like their at the movies
and who is her daily pals.. arsonists!

Not to mention while Dad was somewhat honest in interrogation, the mother pops up with, "Where would she get a gun" BS. She knows damn well her own mom and dad, JAs grandparents had one stolen!

[hatchan]

I wonder if Martinez is not doing exactly the right thing in treating the defense experts with contempt when they start to dissemble. After all, they are full of crap but, because they come with some sorts of credentials, that might be intimidating to members of the Jury. If Martinez treats these witnesses with too much respect, he's liable to convey the impression to the Jury that they are worthy of it. That's would be a serious strategic miscalculation.

What do I like most about Juan Martinez. He refers to himself in the third person as "The Prosecutor" when he's confronting the smart asses. That lets 'em know they are up against a high office that represents the People of The State Arizona and not involved in some smart alecky one upmanship debate with the little Hispanic Guy with the dyed hair.

Remember Pres. Harry Truman when he fired the hero, Gen Douglas MacArthur? I don't think he said it in these words, but it went something like this: "I didn't fire the General because he offended Mr. Harry Truman. I fired the son-of-a-bitch because he offended the President of the United States of America." The Office is more important than the person in it. We focus too much on getting the 'right guy' for the job. It's more important than we support doing the right thing--and I am convinced The Prosecutor is doing that.

Gonna make Tacos now. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to find corn tortillas up here?

when I lived in Germany (albeit long ago) I used cornflakes for a tamale pie casserole.
Jodi did it staying on topic.

[Poppycock]

Per Dr. Phil (via twitter):

"Rumors that we're paying for Arias family housing etc... are absolutely untrue. I've never met the Arias family, and neither I, nor my production company -- has paid or promised them anything. Robin and I are praying for the Alexander family."

https://twitter.com/DrPhil

Interesting timing, I contacted the Dr. Phil show and Snopes earlier today asking about this. I would not doubt that the Snopes people were able to find the rumors and got a hold of him, but last I checked still nothing on snopes. I don't watch him, but that is pretty low that the producers went, though so did the other shows that interviewed her and got ratings boosts.

Yes totally agree...Maybe they can start another thread for that- "The Art of Victim Blaming" or "Stalking 101: Advice from an Expert"

I have implemented the Ignore feature and give it a 4 out of 5 rating; you still see the ignored when quoted in the light blue bubble. But it sure shortens the page! Yippeee I feel like I just got rid of a stalker!

[g r ee n ey e s]

Interesting timing, I contacted the Dr. Phil show and Snopes earlier today asking about this. I would not doubt that the Snopes people were able to find the rumors and got a hold of him, but last I checked still nothing on snopes. I don't watch him, but that is pretty low that the producers went, though so did the other shows that interviewed her and got ratings boosts.


I have implemented the Ignore feature and give it a 4 out of 5 rating; you still see the ignored when quoted in the light blue bubble. But it sure shortens the page! Yippeee I feel like I just got rid of a stalker!

What what. I call foul. What?

Aside from avoiding this area of mds altogether, what happened? You called who for why?

[wasthinking]

Oh wow. I hadn't heard those items were missing. Was that in Det. Flores' report?

The ring BOMBSHELL lol ... came from guess where? The #1 BS station .. http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/03/2...ngagement-ring
Of course they give no source for this hype. The rent was never mentioned by anyone but internet rumors taking an assumed leap without any reason, bank records or LE records of any kind.

[Peace Corpse]

No it hasn't. It's been spoken of, and brought up by the defense. The prosecutor is trying to steer clear of the stalker issue, since it's not able to be proven. It's too prejudicial to bring up, and could become an issue on appeals if he pursues it. So he doesn't.



Travis was not just being stalked, but I believe he was being abused. This changes things, and makes the situation more complex. To add to that, Travis was a man being stalked and/or abused by a woman, which meant fewer resources, and a less likely chance of being taken seriously.



Says Jodi Arias, his abuser and stalker. You say "chose" like he had a perfectly normal relationship with her. You are not taking into consideration how manipulated in that relationship he might have been. He may have told her "No, I don't want sex", and then been convinced to give it to her anyway. He may have been guilted into making a sex tape (and a bad one at that) to make her happy, or to placate her. He may have been too frightened of her to say "no", but didn't tell anyone because he didn't think he should be afraid of her.

I can give you a dozen more scenarios where Travis would not be the totally willing participant you want him to be. There are many ways to coerce and manipulate people, and Travis was vulnerable. He grew up in a toxic home, he was struggling with his faith and his sex drive, he was struggling to find his identity. Abusers and stalkers can key into that vulnerability, and they quickly learn what it takes to manipulate their victims.

Haven't you ever wondered why Travis had so many injuries, and Jodi really had none? Abuse victims, even when they are being physically assaulted, often times don't fight back as hard as they should or can, because they don't want to inflict damage on their abusers.



Yes, I have been stalked. My abusive ex who raped me? Yeah, that ended in a stalking scenario. Every now and then he still shows up, or calls, or sends an email.

Guess what? I never called the police. I never moved. I still engaged with him for many years, and there were times when I thought that he was going to cross the line.

And lookie here! I'm alive and arguing with you.

The woman I know who was stalked? She did all the right things. Called police. Took notes on things. Used the buddy system when she went to work, didn't go anywhere alone, etc. She got a restraining order and changed her phone number. He showed up at her house with a knife, kidnapped her, raped her, and then locked her in the trunk and tried to set the car on fire.

So again, I say bullshit that doing things right will make a stalker less dangerous. It doesn't work that way, because there are different levels of crazy, and police can't do jack until the stalker actually causes you harm.



No, I'm not saying I know about Travis and Jodi. I am making suppositions that are supported by factors such as known reactions of abuse and stalking victims. I discount most of what Jodi says simply because she lies about everything, and has twisted it all up to avoid taking responsibility for her crime. YOU keep saying that it is a FACT that Travis was blase about Jodi. You are saying that it is FACT that he did nothing. You are saying that it is FACT that he wasn't worried. You are saying that it is FACT that Travis didn't do the right things.

You don't know that. It sounds like he was attempting to cut her out of his life. We don't know how she got into his house. We don't know how she got him naked. YOU claim that you KNOW ABSOLUTELY that Travis was just addicted by the sex, and therefore blind to any dangers. There is no evidence to support that. There is plenty of fact, however, to support the theory that Travis was manipulated and abused by Jodi, and therefore, his reactions to her on June 4th are different than someone who is not an abuse victim.

Do you understand this? There is a difference between fact and opinion. What you have stated is an opinion, but you are trying to make it a fact. You have nothing to support your opinion, except for Jodi's testimony and your encounter with a stalker. Again, this does give you some insight, but it doesn't mean that your insight disproves mountains of data that explain how victims of abuse respond to their abusers.



Yes, they had a secret relationship. Yes, they had nekkid pictures. Now, if you take Jodi's first version of events seriously, she says that she has to convince Travis to have his picture taken in the shower. Based on what I know of Jodi, she probably begged, nagged, and annoyed him until he gave into whatever her demands were. So I'm assuming the sex and the photos were his way of appeasing her.






You don't know that he consented in the sense that he wanted the sex. He may have been trying to appease her. He may have been manipulated into letting her into his home. You assume too much with no evidence to support this.



No, what you do is conveniently forget certain things, ignore others, and twist the details to suit your own belief. You are too determined to make sure that Travis take some responsibility for his death, and I find that insulting.



Nothing of Jodi's stalking has been proven in court. Read the top of this post if you need a refresher on that. The bolded part points to your BS and how you contradict yourself. Do you understand that "his choices led him to this and if he'd done it differently, he'd still be alive" is blame?

The definition of blame means to "hold responsible, censure, find fault with". Which is exactly what you have done. You fault Travis on his choices, you assume that he was a totally consenting person who should have seen the danger and that he did nothing to prevent said danger. That is fault, ergo that is blame.



Maybe she apologized to him. As an abuse victim, or simply because he's a forgiving guy, Travis let her into his house. Perhaps it was ill-advised, but this does not make him in any way responsible for his death. If he hadn't allowed her into his home, she would have broken in. Perhaps he shouldn't have had sex with her? Well, maybe she demanded it, and threatened him with that phone sex tape. In exchange for her silence, he screwed her. That doesn't mean he consented to sex. Maybe she suggested break-up sex, and he agreed, because he really did care for her, and he enjoyed spending time with her when she wasn't being weird.

I don't know. You don't know either. You cannot claim he consented when there is nothing that tells us whether or not he did.

Whew. Long post is long.

Violet, I recommend that you do a little more research on male victims of abuse before you continue the discussion. This case is not about sex or stalking (although both those things are a big part of the discussion).

Hey, you make some great points..in some of what you are saying. I need to think about it. Will respond in detail tomorrow. Have a lovely Sunday, VP

[hatchan]

Some people are just negative people, victim blamers and you will never change them no matter what. She could have took his head with her and .. it would still be 10,000 pages of how it was his fault

good post!
Jodi did it! on topic.

[Poppycock]

What what. I call foul. What?

Aside from avoiding this area of mds altogether, what happened? You called who for why?

haha, I didn't call anyone, I emailed from the "contact us" link on their respective websites, to ask if it is true that Dr. Phil, whom I am not a watcher of, but could not believe he would be putting up the Arias family for the trial. so maybe he didn't know the rumors were flying, and denies he or his company is paying their way ~ but, there seems to be proof his minions have paid a couple of jail visits. not saying that is why he tweeted that today, but it might be. bfd, I know.

I wondered thousands of pages ago how the Arias family could afford the steep lodging costs during peak season. I do think someone is helping them in that regard. It has to be costing them at least $100 a nite unless they rented a condo or something. Which at this time of year is minimum 3k a month for a furnished one. Actually, that still works out to $100 a nite.

[hatchan]

Martinez keeps everyone, including the jury focused on the testimony. He really perks up the place after the days and days of droning on by the defense and their witnesses.
Alyce was out of line asking him if he was mad at her. He was asking standard questions and she was sparring with him. She and Wilmott wanted to make a joke out of him, but the joke is on them. They were very unprofessional, and the DT is losing the jury, wasting their time. By the way, he's only started. I'm looking forward to Monday!

^ this!
Jodi stabbed Travis. on topic.

[wasthinking]

good post!
Jodi did it! on topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sTqK...tailpage#t=74s

1:14
check out what this guy caught, JA looks like she is thinking about stabbing [1, 2,3,4,5 times] I think she hates Samuels who was hovering around her like an old pervert so long.

[loonywop]

her speaking lecture was to be on the 15th I believe

If her seminar was indeed cancelled for today, That would be a sincere blow to her.

I wonder how this will be handled on Monday if she even shows. I'm sure JM would love to bring it up and why, yet it would be kind of low for him to do it. Any thoughts?

[PopRocks]

Can someone please point me to the ignore function? I've looked around and can't find it.

click on the username of the person you wish to ignore-> click "View Profile" -> click the link on the left that says "Add to Ignore List"

[I doubt it]

Can someone please point me to the ignore function? I've looked around and can't find it.

Click on the person's name you want to ignore, then view profile, then add to ignore list

[hatchan]

Totally. And, she was still interested and intrigued by Travis and the challenge of winning him. Why doesn't this man want me as his girlfriend? Nothing is more attractive to a woman than acting like you're not really serious about her, and telling her that you are seeing other women. "I don't really want a girlfriend right now" translates into "how can I make this man want me for his girlfriend!!!??? At all costs!!!"



I've been labelled as pro-defense. Even to me, the heinous and pre-planned nature of her crime, coupled with her complete inability to admit any guilt for anything in her life ever, make her deserving of the harshest punishment.

The crime scene photos and physical evidence transcend anything the defense can say. You have gallons of blood and a shell casing vs. a million words of bullshit.

I find the defense case and all their trickery interesting on an intellectual level. I respect their creativity and ability to adapt, like guerilla warfare. I enjoy rooting for the underdog... can the rebel fighters take down the Death Star? Maybe with a dirty trick, but we all know the Death Star comes back for Round 2. Return Of The Jodi.

truer words....coco, you nailed it!