Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[Peace Corpse]

IMO- Saying what he could have, should have done is kinda like trying to put the cat back into the bag. It doesn't mean anything now. (Unless you're trying to teach men and women about stalking) However, each stalker is different. This case isn't about what he didn't do to take better care of himself. (And seriously, can anyone really say what happened between the two of them? None of us were there. It seems he was trying to tell people about his situation. Who knows how she got back into his house? We surely don't know.) The only question is; was he was murdered? Or was this self defense? Because at the end of the day, that's all that matters.

If Travis needed to learn a lesson in how to handle stalkers.... Well, I think he's learned it now.

Butchered is the word. Yes, unfortunately he has learned and in the most drastic way.

[ShellJett]

Shell, where do you see 2011 defunct?

Defunct is my word. Just by looking at that 1 page, it appears that way since there were no assets or revenue in 2011. The only page I saw was through the link posted here, and it was for 2011. If I get a chance I will look into it further to see if there was any activity after 2011.

[ChelseyDawn]

Intelligence has nothing to do with being the victim of a manipulative psychopath. Again, Justdatruth's blog said:
The one trait that now stands out, is how manipulative she was. Her manipulation was so far out there, to this day I can't believe I fell for it. That's the problem with psychopaths, they are masters at manipulation in a way you never experience with normal people. But then again, they are so damn charming, you find yourself forgiving them for their manipulation because they are so irresistible

The last boyfriend I had before I met my husband was like this. SO charming and so likeable. He worked really hard to get me to be his, and once I finally agreed to be in a committed relationship, things started going downhill. Except, he was such a master manipulator that even when he did awful things, he would make it into no-big-deal and make ME feel guilty. I was a very strong-willed and independent woman too, and I had supported myself for the past 10 years, so it's not like I was weak and naive. He managed to alienate me from friends and family and cut down my resources for guidance and help. He cut me down and made me rely on him. He excused away horrible things that no man before or after would EVER have gotten away with. But everytime I was fed up and ready to end the relationship, all was great again...for a time. Thankfully, our relationship was not long-lived. But he cut me down so low, it is amazing. I feel that this is how Jodi treated Travis - a master manipulator to the core!

The guy also would NOT let me go. He had strung on his two other major exes and kept giving me the line that you just don't cut someone out of your life when they've been such an integral part. Which is complete BS. I told him many times to never contact me again, and then he would turn that around on me like I was a horrible person for not forgiving.

Thankfully for me, he wasn't a murderer. AND, doubly thankfully, I met a wonderful man a couple months later who taught me that forgiveness is not the same as allowance, that to forgive him did not necessitate allowing him in my life. But to forgive him for my own well being. Luckily for me, I married this wonderful, awesome man only 7 months later!!! My best decision ever. However, even 2 years into my marriage I would still get random texts from the ex. When I finally responded to tell him that if he ever contacted me again I would file a restraining order, he finally stopped.

I feel great sympathy for Travis because I know how it feels to be the one being manipulated and abused. Unfortunately for him, he didn't get the chance that I got - to move on, improve your life and find real love and meaning and direction in life.

[Strange Dog]

I hope the jury isn't hung because of arguments like these among y'all. It's scary that survey results are consistently 96% - 4%. Looks to me like the 4% get caught up with doubts caused by the DT's smoke and mirrors.

[Morticia]

[QUOTE=VioletPlanet;3379 This has been proven....in court.[/QUOTE]

Actually it has not been proven in court. It's a road that prosecution has chosen not to pursue. It's been implied by some witnesses, that is all.

[Strange Dog]

Post #3858 wasn't directed at the one just above it. I was thinking about the arguments about Travis' responsibility for his death.

[ShellJett]

Did anyone else catch ALV saying that Stabby could not remember details of stabbing because she was in denial? What about her poor hippocampus? No alternate universe? I hope the jury caught that since they had so many questions for the good old Doc about the fog and lost memories.

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

The gun was never conclusively linked to her, and I get why she says TA had a gun. She will never cop to stealing it from Grandpa. She also knew in July 2008 that Flores knew about stolen gun from Grandpa. She stuck with intruder story for a couple of years, so she had time and access to evidence to concoct her story.

I don't think I clearly stated my question. The only scenario that could justify self-defense is shooting to stop him. However, she claims that he threatened her after he was shot and on the floor, hence the stabs and slit throat. Not my rationale, hers. My point is that she claims self-defense, but if he was shot 1st (according to Stabby), he was no longer a threat. She threw in his "fucking kill you bitch" after the shot apparently to justify the stabbing and slit throat. Her whole scenario of the chase and grabbing "his" gun is simply absurd given the time frame of the pictures. I understand your point about shooting a dead or dying man, but I just wonder how she thinks her story furthers her case of self-defense. If she was trying to create a story to avoid the heinous aspect of the murder, she loses the self-defense argument. The pictures and the timeline simply do not support her story, so there has to be a reason for her to want jury to believe gunshot came 1st. The DT fought to keep the killing as being heinous out, so my thinking is that her story is to avoid DP. Who the fuck knows? Just speculating and trying to figure out the angle of her version. Stabby always has an angle. I think the whole killing was premeditated, cruel, heinous, and full of rage. IMO she used the knife to inflict pain and suffering as well as to satisfy her own sick need to be savage. If I am not clear, please let me know and I will try to word this better. Lots of noise in background, hard to get this out right.

Sorry, I misread your post.

Actually it has not been proven in court. It's a road that prosecution has chosen not to pursue. It's been implied by some witnesses, that is all.

And by the Defense no less.

[ChelseyDawn]

The guy also would NOT let me go. He had strung on his two other major exes and kept giving me the line that you just don't cut someone out of your life when they've been such an integral part. Which is complete BS. I told him many times to never contact me again, and then he would turn that around on me like I was a horrible person for not forgiving.

Lame to quote myself...I know.

BUT, I think this is also a characteristic of Jodi. She HATED the fact that Travis didn't want to be her "groupie" anymore. Look at all her exes - they all still hang around and have fairly positive images of her. They are all still in her fan club and she STILL has a level of power over them. I think she believed that Travis seriously wanted her out of his life and he wanted nothing more to do with her and she could NOT handle that. That angered her greatly and she was not about to allow it. She came back that day to prove that she still had power over him - I think she guilted, manipulated and seduced him into sex so that she could prove that she still had control. And then she exercised the final display of control - she took his life.

Ted Bundy, even when he was days away from the electric chair, STILL couldn't manage to divulge the location of many of his victims. He would say that he would and that he wanted to, but then he just couldn't bring himself to. Why? Because then he would give away that ultimate power and possession and he couldn't bring himself to do that even on death's door.

[Peace Corpse]

Actually it has not been proven in court. It's a road that prosecution has chosen not to pursue. It's been implied by some witnesses, that is all.

Juan Martinez covers all the bases as any great prosecutor would. Stalking has not been implied. It has been specifically asked about. Building the true character and circumstances of Jodi Arias must cover all angles . Juan has made that perfectly clear via his questioning of the witnesses who were privy to Jodi and Travis's relationship.

[ShellJett]

I hope the jury isn't hung because of arguments like these among y'all. It's scary that survey results are consistently 96% - 4%. Looks to me like the 4% get caught up with doubts caused by the DT's smoke and mirrors.

If the jury deliberations are anything like this thread we are in for a long wait for the verdict. My impression is that even those who argue about the details seem to think she is guilty, but you never know.

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

Lame to quote myself...I know.

BUT, I think this is also a characteristic of Jodi. She HATED the fact that Travis didn't want to be her "groupie" anymore. Look at all her exes - they all still hang around and have fairly positive images of her. They are all still in her fan club and she STILL has a level of power over them. I think she believed that Travis seriously wanted her out of his life and he wanted nothing more to do with her and she could NOT handle that. That angered her greatly and she was not about to allow it. She came back that day to prove that she still had power over him - I think she guilted, manipulated and seduced him into sex so that she could prove that she still had control. And then she exercised the final display of control - she took his life.

Ted Bundy, even when he was days away from the electric chair, STILL couldn't manage to divulge the location of many of his victims. He would say that he would and that he wanted to, but then he just couldn't bring himself to. Why? Because then he would give away that ultimate power and possession and he couldn't bring himself to do that even on death's door.

I think you have nailed part of it - in her her previous relationships she says she was the one who chose to walk away. TA was the one doing the walking away this time and she wasn't having it.

[wasthinking]

Defunct is my word. Just by looking at that 1 page, it appears that way since there were no assets or revenue in 2011. The only page I saw was through the link posted here, and it was for 2011. If I get a chance I will look into it further to see if there was any activity after 2011.

You mean the one I posted? http://nccsweb.urban.org/orgs/profil...pup=1#overview
I got the impression they use it for education and make sure it doesn't make much profit, or, they literally aren't very succesful.

I hope the jury isn't hung because of arguments like these among y'all. It's scary that survey results are consistently 96% - 4%. Looks to me like the 4% get caught up with doubts caused by the DT's smoke and mirrors.

Heaven help me, I've had that thought myself a few times! If they can get 'believers' arguing shit from the defense, odds are they can get a jury doing the same thing.
"IF" .. analyze something a pathological liar said into circles like there is even a remote possibility what she says should be considered?!

[Peace Corpse]

I hope the jury isn't hung because of arguments like these among y'all. It's scary that survey results are consistently 96% - 4%. Looks to me like the 4% get caught up with doubts caused by the DT's smoke and mirrors.

Jodi Arias deserves life in prison. Preferably death....but let her linger on death row for a long long while. And then her day will come unexpectedly and one can only hope she'll feel the terror, Travis felt.

[lisam2013]

...

[Morticia]

Juan Martinez covers all the bases as any great prosecutor would. Stalking has not been implied. It has been specifically asked about. Building the true character and circumstances of Jodi Arias must cover all angles . Juan has made that perfectly clear via his questioning of the witnesses who were privy to Jodi and Travis's relationship.

Again, not pursued and not proven. I will respectfully agree to disagree.

[ImBatman!]

If I mulitquoted VP's posts it would take up at least a page so to simplify I won't and here is my response to all....

[wasthinking]

Per Dr. Phil (via twitter):

"Rumors that we're paying for Arias family housing etc... are absolutely untrue. I've never met the Arias family, and neither I, nor my production company -- has paid or promised them anything. Robin and I are praying for the Alexander family."

https://twitter.com/DrPhil

thanks, interesting. So where did that originate from in the first place? Didn't creepy Phil deny paying the Anthony's too, then it came out the dirty snake in the grass paid their foundation like that was different.
He can't be trusted!

[Jillee]

If he was so addicted to sex he coulda gotten it anywhere. There are tons of woman out there that are into the freaky deaky. He didn't need Hodi for that.

Nah I'm sure there were other kinky mormons out there TA coulda got his yayas with

If I recall wasn't there a married Mormon woman that he had been talking dirty to. That would have been a perfect win win situation for him.. No strings, nobody would know cuz she wouldn't tell, what could have been better

ETA:

TY Wasthinking agreed!

Ashley Madison!

[ShellJett]

[QUOTE=wasthinking;3379209]You mean the one I posted? http://nccsweb.urban.org/orgs/profil...pup=1#overview
I got the impression they use it for education and make sure it doesn't make much profit, or, they literally aren't very succesful.

Sorry, I looked at the site for Alyce's organization only. Definitely not this one. Sorry for the confusion, and I will look at both before I spout off.

[Wishmich]

I hope the jury isn't hung because of arguments like these among y'all. It's scary that survey results are consistently 96% - 4%. Looks to me like the 4% get caught up with doubts caused by the DT's smoke and mirrors.

Every time I worry about that, I go back to the real evidence and not the smoke and mirrors. I have faith the normal jurors will see the light. When I was on a jury (rape trial) there was a woman who just thought the perp was too good looking and had such a nice wife...he couldn't have done it. Um, we had to pound the evidence in her face and then ask her to respond to it. She couldn't. We convicted the creep.

[lisam2013]

...

[Peace Corpse]

He allowed her to butcher him? It does not matter how many times you repeat this trying to "get your point of view heard" it is wrong. He did not allow her to kill him. Period.

Please read what YOU wrote. "I don't care if he fucked her in all three holes every damn day of the week, she was allowing him to do so and letting him believe she was not only a willing but eager partner. What does any of what he "should have done" or should have seen" have to do with the fact that she butchered him?"

My response was: And he allowed her as well. It takes 2 to participate in a a secretive, unstable, relationship

Please do not take member responses out of context. You are distorting their words. Please be factual.

Isn't that exactly the point you keep trying to shove down everyone's throat over and over ad nauseum? That if he had just not "allowed her into his house" if he had cut off all contact and on and on and on and on. From everything we have read, heard and from his very actions (going to Cancun without her) he was trying to cut off contact with her. He had been to see his bishop if his friends who I find much more credible than Jodi can be believed, he had spoken to friends that this relationship was OVER and he sent a scathing email that his friend Aaron read and asked him are you sure you want to send that? Aren't you afraid she will do something?He was not enough of an asshole I guess and told her to fuck off which maybe he should have done. YOU spend far too much time blaming the victim

But he still let this "sociopath, evil person" ( his words) into his house on June 4, 2008 and stripped naked for her, didn't he? A choice is made between real options and followed by the corresponding action.

I am only responding to those responding or referencing me. If you don't like what I am saying then, please stop responding. This is your choice.

[AlisonL]

If I mulitquoted VP's posts it would take up at least a page so to simplify I won't and here is my response to all....

This. Exactly! Thanks for posting what I'm pretty sure most of us are thinking.

[Peace Corpse]

Again, not pursued and not proven. I will respectfully agree to disagree.

So therefore, the jury should disregard all the stalking testimony by the prosecution witnesses ?