Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[royals02]

I was thinking about all the testimony yesterday regarding "cheating" and "deception"...I believe Travis and JA were free to date who ever they wanted because they weren't a "couple". JA made sure to know who Travis was involved with by invading his email, myspace, text msgs, etc....and JA also made sure that Travis knew who and when SHE went out with other men....its possible his only concern with her dating others is that she might contract an STD and pass it on to him

[Freethinker]

Since the tapes were revealed last night, I hope we've softened our feelings for her mother. I doubt if she's there for the sole reason of supporting Jodi. 1st the public expects it. She'd be damned if she didn't show. I also wonder if she's there to hear what she has to say. Thinking back to the day she and her sister sort of giggled with Jodi's bantering with JM, could that have really been, a reaction to OMG, listen to what she's doing? They knew Jodi was flakey, but were probably surprised at what she was doing, almost in disbelief.
I'm sure not everyone has softened since the showing of the film clip, but that was an eye opener to me that it would not be a "I don't believe my daughter could do this" thing. She was surprisingly candid about things very early on. We did not previously know this.

[AgathaAppleswine]

And you haven't spoken or engaged with Travis either . I have never implied that I can know what I cannot know. I only know...based on solid proven evidence by the detectives and the prosecution, Sir Juan...that Travis continued a secret sexual relationship with his known stalker till the end. This is not an opinion but FACT. See my many previous posts as to why Travis MAY have risked his life this way. If you don't agree, OK.... But please do more research and try and be more objective. This is not about , you, me, us. This is about understanding....so as to prevent this type of crime from happening again. It's about being knowingly aware of seriously unhealthy signs in people we have yet still...CHOSEN to engage with. Hopefully, during and after this trial, "NO I will not engage. I refuse to be lied to, manipulated or seduced. I will not! " becomes an anthem.

What I'm saying is that you only know Jodi's side of the story. You don't know Travis's. I have pointed out that there are numerous, reasonable explanations for Travis's continued relationship with Jodi. If you have done any research into male abuse victims and male stalking victims, you would see the pattern that Travis displayed is not all that unusual for someone who is in an abusive, stalking relationship.

The highlights of the research for you:

--Many victims of abuse, regardless of gender, worry that their abuser will harm themselves. (Jodi likes to threaten suicide, doesn't she?)
--Many victims of abuse stay in a relationship because they think that the person will change.
--In the case of male victims of abuse, they will often stay because the abuse is not always physical, so they do not recognize or understand that the behavior exhibited is abuse.
--Many men fear seeking help because of what you keep repeating over and over -- disbelief and scorn that a man could be abused and/or stalked, and somehow not be able to get away.
--Many abuse victims attempt to leave an average of seven times before they are successful at breaking off the relationship. Despite what you keep repeating over and over, it's not that easy to just get away from an abuser or stalker.
--Leaving an abuser increases the chance for a violent confrontation. It is the most dangerous time for an abuse victim. More women of DV are killed in their attempts to leave their abuser than any other time. Male abuse victims that are murdered by females are far less common, but they do occur.

As a man, Travis would have faced countless difficulties in accessing help for abuse or stalking. According to my Google-fu skillz, According to the NVAW survey, slightly more than half of female stalking victims reported their stalking to the police (2). Overall, only 13% of female stalking victims reported that their cases were criminally prosecuted. Police were more likely to arrest a stalker when the victim was a woman (2). Police were also more likely to refer female than male victims to victim service agencies for support and counseling (2). http://www.musc.edu/vawprevention/re...stalking.shtml

Here are a list of reasons why abuse victims may not leave: http://www.cobar.org/index.cfm/ID/21090 Note that not all of the reasons listed apply to every single case of abuse. These are just the many, many reasons why victims don't always leave.

One link I found even talked about "Sex as a reward, sex withheld as punishment". If the man is good, and does what his abuser wants, he will be rewarded with sex. If he displeases his abuser, sex will be withheld. The same website even talked about how men can be victims of rape. They may not want sex, but they end up having it just to appease their abuser.

One link from the UK had victim statements. I think there were like 9 of them. At least five of those cases, the woman turned the male in for abuse, even though he had never attacked her. In at least three cases, the male was attacked physically, and pushed the female away, and was arrested for abuse.

I could tell you more, but you can google as well as I can.

That is the one key that people should understand here: We don't know what form of coercion Stabby was using on Travis. Sex as a reward seems very likely. She could have threatened him with the phone sex tape. She could have threatened to turn him in for abuse. She may have said that she would tell people that he raped her.

FWIW, I did find it immensely frustrating to find resources for male victims. Most pages are geared towards women. Another reason why many males don't seek help is because they don't know where to go...and they may not even recognize abuse for what it is.

One last thing: Travis did tell a friend about Jodi. And the friend didn't think Jodi was a big threat. It's not his fault about Travis's death, but it just shows you that Travis may have been looking for assistance, and was told not to worry about it. He may have felt that if he approached law enforcement, they would have just thought he was crazy.

So anyways, I posted some stuff for people to read about abuse in case you're too lazy to look it up yourself. If you still have questions, I suggest you just trot out into the Interwebs and look for information on abuse. The stories will sicken you, and hopefully make you think twice before you judge an abuse victim.

[Doll-Face]

I think he was trying to keep her at arms length until she paid back the money she owed him. He should have taken the monetary loss and chalked it up as lesson learned, but money was of high importance to him.

This has always been my belief...as to why he kept her around, or even let her in on that last fateful night/day. The promise of money owed.

[Sylvian]

Found this piece on the interwebs:

"please know that I'm not assuming that you're still pursuing me or that you see as some kind of prize that you're striving for. We rarely talk outside of PPl events, and I am fully aware that you have a life completely outside the realm of "Jodi" which involves a blossoming business, a large social circle and network of people, and most likely many other female interests as well"

Realm of Jodi?! Egotistical much?!

[AgathaAppleswine]

Realm of Jodi?! Egotistical much?!

That entire quote threw me. But it just shows what a little hussy she is. I'm seriously thinking of printing a pictue of Stabby, just so I can throw darts at it.

[AgathaAppleswine]

Since the tapes were revealed last night, I hope we've softened our feelings for her mother. I doubt if she's there for the sole reason of supporting Jodi. 1st the public expects it. She'd be damned if she didn't show. I also wonder if she's there to hear what she has to say. Thinking back to the day she and her sister sort of giggled with Jodi's bantering with JM, could that have really been, a reaction to OMG, listen to what she's doing? They knew Jodi was flakey, but were probably surprised at what she was doing, almost in disbelief.
I'm sure not everyone has softened since the showing of the film clip, but that was an eye opener to me that it would not be a "I don't believe my daughter could do this" thing. She was surprisingly candid about things very early on. We did not previously know this.

I would have softened towards the mother. Except she started wearing a purple domestic violence ribbon, right? I doubt she did that to honor Travis.

There are times when I feel sorry for her family, and I even understand their need to show support for Jodi. I just don't get good vibes from her mom. I suspect that a lot of Jodi's issues solidified because of her mother's behavior.

[Sylvian]

I might be a bit cynical but I don't buy Jodi's mothers tears in that video. Especially in light of her actions in court.

Her father seemed the most genuine.

[Freethinker]

I would have softened towards the mother. Except she started wearing a purple domestic violence ribbon, right? I doubt she did that to honor Travis.

There are times when I feel sorry for her family, and I even understand their need to show support for Jodi. I just don't get good vibes from her mom. I suspect that a lot of Jodi's issues solidified because of her mother's behavior.

All we know is she supposedly used a spoon. Hell, I used a spoon.

[Freethinker]

I might be a bit cynical but I don't buy Jodi's mothers tears in that video. Especially in light of her actions in court.

Her father seemed the most genuine.

I didn't pay attention to tears or not, but that was a startling revelation instead of saying "I don't know how she could act so normal"

[Freethinker]

I didn't pay attention to tears or not, but that was a startling revelation instead of saying "I don't know how she could act so normal"

I misquoted myself , she didn't say my daughter couldn't have done such a thing.

[faq_q]

ALV's voice was disturbing me today on the stand! She has a soft dulcet tone, and is very aware of how to inflect in public speaking! What was not so worrying was the constant "stay on track" reminders from Willmott!
I have no doubt she is aware of the facts of Domestic Violence, but she is LESS aware of the Jodi facts and it shows!

I think JW could be guilty of leading for pretty much all of her questions to ALV.

With all due respect, I don't get why you keep beating this dead horse. No one will ever know why Travis made the choices he did.....he is not here for any of us to question. As they say in town meetings....I make a motion to moooooooove this "did Travis invite his ultimate fate?" along. Second? Do I hear a second?? Please??!!

2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th.....etc! I do not want to see this thread shut down again.

What the fuck?

"Dr. Drew I just wanted to hug that juror to let her know that everybody out there supports her." Hello!!!?? McFly!!!

That juror almost destroyed the fucking trial after 3 months and ignored the judge's instructions!!! Crazy fool almost caused a mistrial and gave a killer grounds for appeal. How about a nice big GTFO!!!

This is precisely why I bet Juror #5 does not make an appearance before the end of the trial. If for some reason her being ejected could be blamed on a lesser charge for Stabby or a DP for the prosecution. If it were me, I wouldn't talk to the media before the verdict.

TY--- this is even more revealing {found on that same web site}
http://media2.abc15.com/html/pdf/Juror5.pdf

Thanks Cocopop...good find!

[poppym]

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...y-in-hot-water

Thanks for this Alison! Very interesting! Makes me think that Juror #5 may have been pro-defense if she was signalling to Stabby! DT might have shot themselves in the foot while aiming for a mistrial!

[AgathaAppleswine]

All we know is she supposedly used a spoon. Hell, I used a spoon.

I know. But I get weird creepy vibes from her mom. Not so much from the dad. The mom makes me uncomfortable.

[Sylvian]

I didn't pay attention to tears or not, but that was a startling revelation instead of saying "I don't know how she could act so normal"

Yes! something everyone has wondered.

[ImBatman!]

What I'm saying is that you only know Jodi's side of the story. You don't know Travis's. I have pointed out that there are numerous, reasonable explanations for Travis's continued relationship with Jodi. If you have done any research into male abuse victims and male stalking victims, you would see the pattern that Travis displayed is not all that unusual for someone who is in an abusive, stalking relationship.

The highlights of the research for you:

--Many victims of abuse, regardless of gender, worry that their abuser will harm themselves. (Jodi likes to threaten suicide, doesn't she?)
--Many victims of abuse stay in a relationship because they think that the person will change.
--In the case of male victims of abuse, they will often stay because the abuse is not always physical, so they do not recognize or understand that the behavior exhibited is abuse.
--Many men fear seeking help because of what you keep repeating over and over -- disbelief and scorn that a man could be abused and/or stalked, and somehow not be able to get away.
--Many abuse victims attempt to leave an average of seven times before they are successful at breaking off the relationship. Despite what you keep repeating over and over, it's not that easy to just get away from an abuser or stalker.
--Leaving an abuser increases the chance for a violent confrontation. It is the most dangerous time for an abuse victim. More women of DV are killed in their attempts to leave their abuser than any other time. Male abuse victims that are murdered by females are far less common, but they do occur.

As a man, Travis would have faced countless difficulties in accessing help for abuse or stalking. According to my Google-fu skillz, According to the NVAW survey, slightly more than half of female stalking victims reported their stalking to the police (2). Overall, only 13% of female stalking victims reported that their cases were criminally prosecuted. Police were more likely to arrest a stalker when the victim was a woman (2). Police were also more likely to refer female than male victims to victim service agencies for support and counseling (2). http://www.musc.edu/vawprevention/re...stalking.shtml

Here are a list of reasons why abuse victims may not leave: http://www.cobar.org/index.cfm/ID/21090 Note that not all of the reasons listed apply to every single case of abuse. These are just the many, many reasons why victims don't always leave.

One link I found even talked about "Sex as a reward, sex withheld as punishment". If the man is good, and does what his abuser wants, he will be rewarded with sex. If he displeases his abuser, sex will be withheld. The same website even talked about how men can be victims of rape. They may not want sex, but they end up having it just to appease their abuser.

One link from the UK had victim statements. I think there were like 9 of them. At least five of those cases, the woman turned the male in for abuse, even though he had never attacked her. In at least three cases, the male was attacked physically, and pushed the female away, and was arrested for abuse.

I could tell you more, but you can google as well as I can.

That is the one key that people should understand here: We don't know what form of coercion Stabby was using on Travis. Sex as a reward seems very likely. She could have threatened him with the phone sex tape. She could have threatened to turn him in for abuse. She may have said that she would tell people that he raped her.

FWIW, I did find it immensely frustrating to find resources for male victims. Most pages are geared towards women. Another reason why many males don't seek help is because they don't know where to go...and they may not even recognize abuse for what it is.

One last thing: Travis did tell a friend about Jodi. And the friend didn't think Jodi was a big threat. It's not his fault about Travis's death, but it just shows you that Travis may have been looking for assistance, and was told not to worry about it. He may have felt that if he approached law enforcement, they would have just thought he was crazy.

So anyways, I posted some stuff for people to read about abuse in case you're too lazy to look it up yourself. If you still have questions, I suggest you just trot out into the Interwebs and look for information on abuse. The stories will sicken you, and hopefully make you think twice before you judge an abuse victim.

Thank you soooo much for the great information!!!

[wasthinking]

Am I the first to admit, I cried when I watched the parents

I don't care if they are jerks today, watching them get the news was heartbreaking.

[faq_q]

Just an FYI, I checked the court calendar this morning and I don't see trial tomorrow nor does it show for Monday. This is never going to end if we can't have a consistent week of trial.

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

I didn't have time to watch that whole video. She shoved paper down her pants, but what was on it?

The female Detective in the interrogation tapes had given JA a pad of paper to write a letter (?!) to TA's family, and when JA realizes the pen had left impressions of her handwriting in the pad, she ripped those pages off! I'm dying to know wtf she wrote?!

Nothing, she removed paper from the pad a few pages under the first, like she was hoping no one could tell she'd taken any. She'd already spent a night in jail and likely knew she was limited as o what she could have access to. She obvious had no idea she was being video taped. The paper it looked like she might have written on the detectives photo copied. If she's written anything on the paper she shoved in her pants they would have copied that as well.

Mom and Dad Arias interview snippets. All we have until they release more

Paging David Lohr - STAT!

Interesting. I wonder if the poor mom will be demonized a little less now. Some of the comments at her were ruthless.

I can't imagine what it would be like if my child was responsible for slaughtering another human being and facing the death penalty. It's got to be excruciatingly painful. I hate to blame the family for what is evil in Jodi. I think the dad has the right idea by not being in court and supporting Stabby. He can't be all bad. Now her mother....I don't know what to make of her. I know I don't like her, but I can't necessarily blame her for Stabby's actions.

Since the tapes were revealed last night, I hope we've softened our feelings for her mother. I doubt if she's there for the sole reason of supporting Jodi. 1st the public expects it. She'd be damned if she didn't show. I also wonder if she's there to hear what she has to say. Thinking back to the day she and her sister sort of giggled with Jodi's bantering with JM, could that have really been, a reaction to OMG, listen to what she's doing? They knew Jodi was flakey, but were probably surprised at what she was doing, almost in disbelief.
I'm sure not everyone has softened since the showing of the film clip, but that was an eye opener to me that it would not be a "I don't believe my daughter could do this" thing. She was surprisingly candid about things very early on. We did not previously know this.

I get that vibe also Annie..it seems like that is what JA's mother's lack of decorum in the courtroom is all about, dissing the Alexander family. It seems like any normal person in Mama A's predicament would display a little more humility considering that she reared the monster that killed someone so savagely.

I can feel sympathy for a parent whose child has done something so awful. It must be a terrible position to be in. I started out having sympathy for Mrs. Arias, but her behavior in the courtroom has been so offensive and disrespectful, to the court itself, to the Alexander family, and even to her own daughter. She has lost my sympathy with her antics.

I would have softened towards the mother. Except she started wearing a purple domestic violence ribbon, right? I doubt she did that to honor Travis.

There are times when I feel sorry for her family, and I even understand their need to show support for Jodi. I just don't get good vibes from her mom. I suspect that a lot of Jodi's issues solidified because of her mother's behavior.

I know. But I get weird creepy vibes from her mom. Not so much from the dad. The mom makes me uncomfortable.

Between the court room behavior and Mama Arias trying to sell the forged (by her daughter, in her cell) pedo letters to the National Enquirer and the DV ribbons that appeared only when Alyce appeared on the stand to complete Stabby's tangled web of lies I'm short on sympathy for Mama Arias. Especially after watching that short snippet of her interview. Can only imagine what's on the rest of that tape

I found her Dad's affect blunted, like Stabby's. Hard to say hough because the clip was so short.

I wonder why Jodi steals pens. Are they for Ebay art, magazine codes, or what?

Stabby always wants what she can't have.

This whole thing gets weirder every day. Anyone notice ALaV is more reserved today?

It'll be interesting to see Alyce's demeanor today after Mama and Papa Arias's interview tapes were released. Stabby's too.

Being called a doll is definitely abuse since a doll is something you undress and play with.

Show us on the doll where the bad man touched you. Still waiting for Alyce to bring out the doll

Why the hell would ask jodi for $4000? Jodi didn't have tjat kind of $$ and Travis knew that. Did she owe him $$? Travis knew plenty of other people in a better position to help if he needed it. Do we know for sure he asked as a loan? None of that sounds quite right to me. Does anyone have more info on this?

he wanted his money from selling her the car

The car thing was when she was moving back to CA and it was 6k, the 4k possibly could be money he asked for her to pay back after he lent her for her move from CA to Mesa?

The girl in Jon Dixon's profile pic looks an awful lot like Jodi with braids, now that's really creepy!

Creeeepy!

Found this piece on the interwebs:

"please know that I'm not assuming that you're still pursuing me or that you see as some kind of prize that you're striving for. We rarely talk outside of PPl events, and I am fully aware that you have a life completely outside the realm of "Jodi" which involves a blossoming business, a large social circle and network of people, and most likely many other female interests as well"

If that doesn't say it all then I don't know what does.

[sheesh]

Arias' father tells Flores, "She was a strange person after she left the house; she just kind of got a little strange."

"Sometimes she'd call real sweet, and 10 minutes later, she'd call in a rage, you know, just screaming at my wife. She did that over the last year and a half."


"How could somebody ... you say she did this ... how could she come back and just be normal?" sobbed Arias' mother.

"Jodi has mental problems. Jodi would freak out all the time."

"I had quite a few of her friends call me and tell me that I needed to get her some help. One called me in the middle of the night and told me that she needed help," she said.


Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...#ixzz2PPkO8xmK

[qtkitycat]

Found this piece on the interwebs:

"please know that I'm not assuming that you're still pursuing me or that you see as some kind of prize that you're striving for. We rarely talk outside of PPl events, and I am fully aware that you have a life completely outside the realm of "Jodi" which involves a blossoming business, a large social circle and network of people, and most likely many other female interests as well"

Is this part of JA's email to Abe??

[wasthinking]

Arias' father tells Flores, "She was a strange person after she left the house; she just kind of got a little strange."

"Sometimes she'd call real sweet, and 10 minutes later, she'd call in a rage, you know, just screaming at my wife. She did that over the last year and a half."


"How could somebody ... you say she did this ... how could she come back and just be normal?" sobbed Arias' mother.

"Jodi has mental problems. Jodi would freak out all the time."

"I had quite a few of her friends call me and tell me that I needed to get her some help. One called me in the middle of the night and told me that she needed help," she said.


Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...#ixzz2PPkO8xmK

something sounds off in Dad's words. First 'strange when she left the house'... that was 10 yrs before! Then he says the last 1 1/2 yrs. These two don't jive.

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

something sounds off in Dad's words. First 'strange when she left the house'... that was 10 yrs before! Then he says the last 1 1/2 yrs. These two don't jive.

"Sometimes she'd call real sweet, and 10 minutes later, she'd call in a rage, you know, just screaming at my wife. She did that over the last year and a half."

I think he means what he said - in the last year and a half she would call Mama Arias in a rage.


Just saw a new clip of Papa Arias on CNN. More revealing than the first. When Stabby quit her job the day before she was arrested Papa asked her why she was running.

[Jem]

Napoleon had a facebook!

https://www.facebook.com/napoleon.alexander.3

Anyone know what happened to the dog after Travis died? I've missed all the testimony to do with the defence's current witness so this is the most interesting question to me right now.

[TC1234]

something sounds off in Dad's words. First 'strange when she left the house'... that was 10 yrs before! Then he says the last 1 1/2 yrs. These two don't jive.

I think he's saying she's been "strange" for a long time. But in the year and a half before the interview, she was going back and forth between acting sweet and being in a rage.

I work with someone like this, he can have a very vicious argument with someone that includes name calling and pure nastiness. Then, within a half hour he will speak to them like nothings wrong and the prior argument never happened. It's very bizarre.