Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death

[wasthinking]

PULEASE!!!

Asking for donations? She has free legal, public def. I think the Feds should investigate this group.

[Brillig]

Asking for donations? She has free legal, public def. I think the Feds should investigate this group.

Art supplies cost money! And special food!

Sheesh.....

[poppym]

Asking for donations? She has free legal, public def. I think the Feds should investigate this group.

Big Fat Yes! I am perplexed as to why JAII are suddenly showing up 2nd or 3rd in my google search for 'Jodi Arias- video- last 24hrs'??? Link does not take you to a video? Just to their site!

[loonywop]

yea it was meant to a comment from NG blonde...hit the wrong button.I don't know where we would be without you policing my posts Justice.Thanks

[AnnieBelle]

Now we're talking. Her behavior directly related to the murder weapons is where the money is for the prosecution. I wish they would focus more energy on that. There is an indirect link between her and a (we don't know if it's the) .25 gun. Is that conclusive enough for you to convict for premeditated murder?

They haven't recovered the actual murder weapon....that is the only way they could conclusively tie in the stolen gun with Travis' murder. But it is highly suspicious, for sure. If that was the sole piece of evidence, it wouldn't be enough. Added to all of the other evidence, it's more than enough to tip that scale.

[Morticia]

Another anti-Stabby video. Yay!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNdE3iTRNpk

[Harlette]

Asking for donations? She has free legal, public def. I think the Feds should investigate this group.

would be kinda hard if they are in pakistan, but she does need money on her books for advil and razor blades

[wasthinking]

would be kinda hard if they are in pakistan, but she does need money on her books for advil and razor blades

If I am understanding it correctly, there is a long arm to Pak's but, the site is connected in Utah, that would be a US jurisdiction for scams.

[AgathaAppleswine]

You make excellent points, that is a compelling summary. But I see a big difference between covering your tracks and premeditated murder. Martinez can prove that she didn't want anybody to think she was in Arizona. Does that prove premeditated murder? Not for me, especially given her erratic and extreme behavioral history. She might have been intending to commit a crime like vandalize his house, or beat him up, but does not show intent to commit murder. She had many oppotunities to kill him but chose not to.

Was she lying in wait to ambush him? Did she kill him anonymously? Why did she risk leaving her DNA & fingerprints? Was she wearing rubber gloves? If she had latex gloves in her car, then I would say yes, premditated murder.

You missed the broad strokes of my post.

You point out doubts, as if any and all doubt are reasonable. When you look at that list, and you offer the alternate options, are they truly reasonable?

Who would go through all the effort of changing hair color, stealing a gun, covering their tracks to their destination, keeping said destination a Super Secret, and decide that hey, they're just going to go there to scare someone? Especially if your intended victim is left able to talk about what you did to them?

As others have pointed out, premeditation can actually happen in a second anyway. Say she did go there to just scare him. She decided at some point to stab him 28 times, slit his throat and shoot him. That was a conscious choice that she made. Premeditation, through and through.

The last paragraph of yours is...odd. Why would you presume that just because someone commits premeditated murder that they would be able to predict and/or prevent something from tying them to the crime, or that they would have/carry/use gloves.

By your standards, no one ever actually commits premeditated murder, because obviously they would be more careful to not leave evidence behind. And obviously they would share their plans with someone. And be way more obvious about it all being premeditated. Or something.

Reasonable doubt does not mean "no doubt", nor does it mean "anything you can come up with" doubt. :p

We'll obviously have to agree to disagree on this matter. I just can't wrap my head around your thought process. :-D

[wasthinking]

http://www.azcourts.gov/Portals/23/p...CR060295AP.pdf

Interesting appeal to read if you have spare time. Death penalty reduced to LWOP

I believe the aggravators for Arias case are gratuitous and cruel.

[loonywop]

I alway's wondered about this text and what led up to it .I agree with you also if I want to sever ties don't go back and involve her with buying your car.Sell it to anyone else.

As a group, I hope at this point we can move past a couple of things. We already know: Jodi is a liar and none of her testimony is reliable. Martinez has an will impeach her further as a witness. We already know she is guilty of murder. She has admitted it on the stand, said she did something terrible and should be punished. Her own defense expert witness has called her the perpetrator of a horrible violent crime. While it's fun to talk about that stuff, there is not a lot of relevance to the verdict and punishment at this point. From their questions, the jury was not impressed by her story.

We need to move on and focus on the elments of premeditation, and if they can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in the court. The gas cans have some importance here, but I don't see them as central to convincing the jury. What solid evidence (beyond circumstantial) have you seen of premeditation that has been presented so far? Is it enough for you to convict with a death penalty sentence?

I will start. This text message jumps out at me, sent from Travis to Jodi and mentioned earlier in the thread. It speaks to the motive behind the murder:



Travis hits Jodi with the truth, and many threats. Threats of exposing her and exposing her lies. To a narcissist like Jodi, obsessed with her image, this must have been a worst case scenario. Worlds are colliding, all of her scams will be made known. Instead of facing that, or not caring (was it really a big deal?), she formed a plan to kill him. As a side point, I can't understand why Travis wouldn't just cut off all contact with her (the car?) if he saw so many red flags and feared for his own safety.

[wasthinking]

Big Fat Yes! I am perplexed as to why JAII are suddenly showing up 2nd or 3rd in my google search for 'Jodi Arias- video- last 24hrs'??? Link does not take you to a video? Just to their site!

I heard also that if Matt steps foot in AZ he is going to be charged. I wonder if because it involves across states, if that would make it a felony charge.
Sure am glad I'm not the liar Matt sitting in a big pile of shit!

[coconut]

A parody of the defense strategy:

This is Dr. Richard Samuels dictating, patient (correction, inmate) assessment notes for Jodi Ann Arias.

On April 22, 2011, I visited with Ms. Arias in the Maricopa County jail for 15 minutes. This was my eleventh visit out of a planned twelve paid visits. Over the few hours I have come to know Ms. Arias, I began to suspect she could bend the truth. So at this point I really had to start asking hard questions about how stressful it was to stab that man so many times.

Ms. Arias states that she is in top physical condition, working out everyday and happy and well-adjusted in jail. She is well-liked by the other girls and very popular for her artwork and singing skills. She says she likes to give and is therefore never short of companionship from women with short haircuts. She does complain of some loneliness at shower time, but is sleeping well and seems unburdened.

I tore a page out of the DSM IV manual for "Transient Global Amnesia" and handed it to Ms Arias, instructing her to memorize it and put it under her pillow so it could magically seep into her dreams. I read along from my copy and we reviewed together this horrible disease that affects 0.000037% of the population. I asked Ms. Arias if she had any of the symptoms of Transient Global Amnesia? She said she could not remember if she did. She is a fast learner.

We also reviewed all the factors that cause this awful condition. Hot water? Check. Sex? Check. Stabbing? Check. Emotional stress? Check. This patient has all the classic signs and symptoms of Transient Global Amnesia which proves that this crime was not planned.

I have also reviewed her journals. I had my assistant read them and summarize them for me, as follows: Stabucks. Travis. Mormon stuff. Witchcraft. Guys cheating on her. That's pretty much it. No violence.

In my paid professional opinion, Jodi Arias caught the Transient Global Amnesia from stabbing Travis Alexander and she is therefore not guilty. That will be $12,500, plus travel expenses and a set of Pirelli tires for my Audi.

[Brillig]

http://www.azcourts.gov/Portals/23/p...CR060295AP.pdf

Interesting appeal to read if you have spare time. Death penalty reduced to LWOP

I believe the aggravators for Arias case are gratuitous and cruel.

I believe I read that only cruel was left as an aggravator?

Not sure why gratuitous would have been eliminated, does anyone know?

[loonywop]

beats the hell out of talking about her glasses .or if she's allowed pencils or pens.lifetime tv wants to know.,,,,hows that?

Seriously! All you guys who have been arguing back and forth for two days about what type of knife she used, what length blade, what type blade etc. etc. etc.--WHY? WHO CARES?? WHAT DOES IT MATTER???

[wasthinking]

I believe I read that only cruel was left as an aggravator?

Not sure why gratuitous would have been eliminated, does anyone know?

Thanks for the correction, I had forgotten we can thank Dr Horn for that elimination!

Dr. Horne opined
that the two fatal wounds occurred last in the sequence. Based on this evidence, there is no
showing that the defendant continued to injure the victim after she had fatally wounded him.

[loonywop]

correct crickets

k

Things she did to cover up, after the murder have nothing to do with premeditation to commit the murder.

[Brillig]

Thanks for the correction, I had forgotten we can thank Dr Horn for that elimination!

Dr. Horne opined
that the two fatal wounds occurred last in the sequence. Based on this evidence, there is no
showing that the defendant continued to injure the victim after she had fatally wounded him.

Thank you for the info.

(But how annoying)

28 stab wounds isn't gratuitous?!?!?!?!

They are only counting the throat slashing and the gun shot wound?

[loonywop]

the one I can't answer is "I'm gonna fuck this guy and then kill him".I'm fucking a soon to be dead man.....

Obviously, we are familiar with this list. And I grant you that all of them are highly suspicious, especially as a group. I personally think that she planned ahead to kill him.

But you could also say that nothing on that list specifically points to her going there with the goal of killing him, beyond a reasonable doubt. IF they matched the gun, then I would say yes. If they found the knife and a receipt for its purchase, I would say yes, she obtained these weapons and brought them there to kill him. But the list of premediation could just be a crazy, confused woman melting down mentally over an ex-boyfriend on a trip to see Ryan Burns. Maybe she was ashamed to admit she still wanted to see Travis and tried to cover her tracks in her own crazy mind. Not likely but certainly possible.

We can talk cover-up all day long. We can say she planned to hide her presence in Arizona, that is obvious. But maybe she just went to his house not planning to kill him, but to rough him up? What if she planned to tie him up and threaten him with a gun? That is not premeditated murder. At what point did she decide to kill him, was her life in danger, and did she have the option to retreat?

This is where her own words could hang her. She talked about going into the closet, and having a moment. She decided to go for the gun when running was an option. This was on direct, Nurmi was leading her through the killing, and it sounded to me like in her own words she admitted she had time to reflect and still went for the gun. That moment sounds like stronger proof of premeditated murder than anything the state has presented so far (with the exception of the autopsy & crime scene photos). If she formed the intent to kill at that point when he was not even in the room with her, that is enough for me.

[loonywop]

maybe she took the gun everytime she went on a road trip and put it back when she got home only this time she couldn't return it.

Actually, stealing a gun in a fake burglary and taking it to Arizona with her proves premeditation all by itself.

What other reason would there be not only to TAKE the gun with her to AZ (no gold panning trip safety here), but to stage a fake burglary and STEAL the gun?? If it was for safety or some other legitimate reason, she could have asked to borrow it.

The fact the Stabby (or anyone else) can come up with some totally ridiculous scenario to explain her actions as innocent does not equal "reasonable doubt". The thing about "reasonable doubt" is..... it HAS to be REASONABLE.

[bryanwasdrunk]

Let's assume a few things:

1. She had three gas cans.
2. She lied about having the third can.
3. All three purchases in Salt Lake City were for gas.
4. She did not return the third gas can.
5. She lied about returning the third can.
6. All of this has been or will be proven in open court.

Do any of those things prove premeditation beyond a reasonable doubt? No. They strongly suggest planning a crime but I would consider it circumstantial evidence. Her explanations are not credible but you can't send someone to death row for lying about a gas can. It proves she is lying but she lies about everything all the time. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Having three gas cans could just as easily mean she was planning a long trip to go see Travis (not to kill him, just to see him). 2 or 3 cans who cares? It is suspicous but not conclusive. We need a real smoking gun. Like a burnt up gas can with some Travis DNA and a Starbucks cup with Strawberry residue.

The smoking gun is that guns ( and knives, but particularly guns ) don't materialize from thin air. Her lie about Travis owning a gun is completely without foundation, but in the mind of a juror it might still be plausible. Evidence directly implicating her in the burglary at the grandparents house puts a .25 caliber gun in her hand right before sneaking off to murder TA. I posted earlier that JM in his cross examinations of JA and Daryl Brewer hinted that he might have something regarding some of the other items that were stolen. Something like that should remove all plausibility from the assertion that Travis was killed with his own gun.

Also keep in mind that premeditation doesn't put her on death row. Cruel, heinous, and depraved murder does. The defensive wounds on Travis' hands show prove that he suffered during the attack, and this gives the probable cause for the finding of cruelty. Even without premeditation, felony murder is on the table because Travis was murdered during the course of a burglary. If you 100% believe Jodi's own testimony, she's guilty of killing Travis during the course of a burglary. This nullifies her justification defense and she's still facing the death penalty because she's convicted of first degree murder and Travis still suffered during her attack.

The jury instructions are going to be interesting to read, but I don't think it will even allow the logical possibility to acquit or even find Jodi guilty of a lesser charge. It will come down to mitigators and aggravators in the penalty phase and how the Jury feels about sending Jodi to the happy hunting ground.

[bryanwasdrunk]

Not me. I pull out and blast chicks in the face when I'm done.

Make sure you throw candy at her afterwards. She testified that she prefers toblerone after getting male ejaculate in her face.

[loonywop]

I asked a lawyer buddy of mine this exact sceanario.He answered it this way.Your walking down the street and it's raining you walk into a bar.You know it's raining OR your sitting in a bar and someone walks in and they are wet with an unbrella,you assume it's raining ...........he say's it's the same thing.you can assume something without having hardcore proof and it is reasonible to assume it's truth without let's say finding the actual gun.

Now we're talking. Her behavior directly related to the murder weapons is where the money is for the prosecution. I wish they would focus more energy on that. There is an indirect link between her and a (we don't know if it's the) .25 gun. Is that conclusive enough for you to convict for premeditated murder?

[loonywop]

that's why you heard flight and fear.

"She had time to reflect" = 1 minute or less= premeditation.

[Kdon]

Wasthinking...

I heard also that if Matt steps foot in AZ he is going to be charged. I wonder if because it involves across states, if that would make it a felony charge.
Sure am glad I'm not the liar Matt sitting in a big pile of shit!

I missed the story on that. Was he lying about the magazine thing?