Yes! I acknowledge what you are saying! Very much! What I am expressing is, that Travis is still dead, and that 'Jodi' still killed him! How, pray tell, do you chose a certain 'bottle of wine over' that?Originally Posted by Ron_NYC
Yes! I acknowledge what you are saying! Very much! What I am expressing is, that Travis is still dead, and that 'Jodi' still killed him! How, pray tell, do you chose a certain 'bottle of wine over' that?
Autopsy report
http://cnninsession.files.wordpress....visautopsy.pdf
Police reports
http://morbitbuzz.blogspot.com/2013/...arias.html?m=1
Last edited by snowfallsoon; 03-17-2013 at 06:32 PM.
I hate seeing beautiful people behind bars.
Same here crickets, I am tired and cranky. Will start watching when JM does cross.
Last edited by snowfallsoon; 03-17-2013 at 06:40 PM.
I disagree.
Let's figure out what reasonable doubt is first. It's not "beyond any and all possible doubt". If there is a logical doubt that cannot be overcome by the evidence, then they cannot convict.
First degree murder needs premeditation. And you're right; the gas cans alone may not be sufficient evidence (although I disagree) to over-come the doubt that Jodi may just have been being cautious for ANY number of reasons.
However....
1. Why lie about having a third gas can?
2. Why try to cover up the fact that you have a third gas can?
Give me a logical reason why Jodi would lie about the third gas can. There isn't a good reason. So right there, we have over-come the potential doubt about why she has so many gas cans.
Let's play devil's advocate and say that ok, she lied because she didn't want to cast more suspicion on herself.
BUT, there are other issues here besides three gas cans. So let's look at the other points of pre-meditation:
1. Travis texts her and calls her a sociopath. He is furious with her for whatever reason.
a. This provides motive.
2. A gun is stolen from her grandfather's home a week before the murder.
a. This gun also happens to be the same caliber weapon used in the murder.
3. Jodi has a business meeting to go to, and a new guy to hook up with.
a. This provides her with an excuse to go out of town.
4. Jodi decides not to drive her own car.
a. She goes 90 miles away to rent a car.
b. She says she does this to save money. (I have no idea how that is remotely logical, but whatever).
c. She asks for a car that does not stand out so much.
1. She claims this is to prevent cops from pulling her over.
5. At some point, Jodi decides to go from platinum blonde to brunette.
a. The timing is in question -- but it's still something to think about.
6. Jodi goes to borrow gas cans from a friend.
a. Again, she says this is to save money.
1. She fills up in CA, which is immensely expensive, and she knows this.
7. Jodi buys a gas can.
a. Jodi says she returned the gas can.
1. There is no record of a return at Walmart.
2. If Juan Martinez is correct, not only did she keep it, she filled it up a few days later.
8. Jodi makes plans to meet with Travis.
a. She does not tell anyone else (as far as I can recall) that she is going there.
9. Jodi has receipts for every place she's been to -- except Arizona.
10. Jodi arrives very early in the morning.
a. It could just be because she drove all night.
1. Or it could be that she arrived at that time because she knew she would not be seen.
11. The attack itself.
a. Travis is dead within two minutes of the last photo of him alive.
1. How did the weapons get in there?
1a. Jodi has a story -- but is it believable in any form?
Long post is long, but you see the point (and I may have missed a few, even). Take one little piece of evidence by itself, you do not necessarily prove intent. But you add all the pieces up, and you have to say...."Is it logical and within the bounds of reason to dismiss all this evidence to say that she did NOT premeditate the murder of Travis Alexander?"
Reasonable doubt does not mean "any and all doubt". People doubt the moon landing. They doubt who killed JFK. They doubt 9/11 even happened. Just because there is doubt doesn't mean it's logical.
Jodi is either the most unfortunate victim of circumstances in the history of ever....or she's guilty as sin. Based on every other piece of evidence we've seen, including her police interrogation and even her own testimony, I am comfortable that there is no reasonable doubt that she did in fact premeditate and carry out Travis's murder.
hi cricket,
I disagree. Circumstantial - Think of it as a daisy chain
gas cans is planning ahead + stolen gun planning ahead aka premed weapon plan + covering up trip to AZ + murder admission, links to destroy evidence + lying + forcing albi trail with more lying and cover up.
IOWs, connect the dots common sense big picture not isolated stand alone incidents.
"Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are" --- Benjamin Franklin
Obviously, we are familiar with this list. And I grant you that all of them are highly suspicious, especially as a group. I personally think that she planned ahead to kill him.
But you could also say that nothing on that list specifically points to her going there with the goal of killing him, beyond a reasonable doubt. IF they matched the gun, then I would say yes. If they found the knife and a receipt for its purchase, I would say yes, she obtained these weapons and brought them there to kill him. But the list of premediation could just be a crazy, confused woman melting down mentally over an ex-boyfriend on a trip to see Ryan Burns. Maybe she was ashamed to admit she still wanted to see Travis and tried to cover her tracks in her own crazy mind. Not likely but certainly possible.
We can talk cover-up all day long. We can say she planned to hide her presence in Arizona, that is obvious. But maybe she just went to his house not planning to kill him, but to rough him up? What if she planned to tie him up and threaten him with a gun? That is not premeditated murder. At what point did she decide to kill him, was her life in danger, and did she have the option to retreat?
This is where her own words could hang her. She talked about going into the closet, and having a moment. She decided to go for the gun when running was an option. This was on direct, Nurmi was leading her through the killing, and it sounded to me like in her own words she admitted she had time to reflect and still went for the gun. That moment sounds like stronger proof of premeditated murder than anything the state has presented so far (with the exception of the autopsy & crime scene photos). If she formed the intent to kill at that point when he was not even in the room with her, that is enough for me.
Yes, I see what you are getting at, coconut.
If you focus on just ONE piece of the circumstantial evidence (like the gas cans), then no. that alone is not enough to prove premeditation beyond a reasonable doubt. It could just be an odd coincidence.
If everything else in this case pointed away from Stabby, except that she carried around some gas cans, then it could just be an odd coincidence. No premed, no DP.
But it is NOT just one coincidence, is it? It is a long list of them:
The "burglary" at the grandparents where the same caliber gun is stolen a week earlier.
The bizarre circumstance of the burglary itself.
The rental car (when she owns a car).
Driving 100 miles to rent the rental car.
Not wanting a red rental car.
Her license plate being tampered with/upside down.
Asking in advance to borrow gas cans.
Borrowing gas cans.
Buying another gas can.
Saying you are using the gas cans to save money, but then filling them up in CA where gas is more expensive.
Was allegedly not planning to visit Travis on this trip, then changed her mind.
Does not tell Ryan or anyone she is planning a detour.
Never getting any gas in AZ.
Losing phone charger right before entering AZ.
Phone runs out of juice right before entering AZ.
Does not park in Travis' driveway.
She and Travis just happen to decide to try bondage that day.
They just happen to use a big knife to cut the rope.
The knife happens to get left in the bathroom.
They just happen to choose that afternoon to do the Calvin Klein shower photo shoot.
She just happens to drop the camera during the photo shoot, enraging Travis.
Travis just happens to have a gun that he has told nobody about except her.
The gun only has 6 bullets (or less).
The gun is the same caliber as the gun stolen from her grandparents.
She happens to be able to outrun Travis to grab the gun.
The gun happens to be loaded with all the bullets Travis owned.
When the gun does not stop him, she is able to instantly find a knife, which just happens to be in the bathroom or very close by.
Travis is killed elsewhere, then dragged back to the shower and washed off
Despite being "in a fog", she remembers to use the gas from the gas cans in her car to fill her tank before leaving AZ
She just happens to find the phone charger just before she leaves AZ.
Now we have not ONE coincidence, now there is a very long list of coincidences. Far too many to be believable as coincidences. When you add them all together, I think there is no question that this was all planned out carefully in advance. The jury will think so too.
There is not (nor will there be) one single piece of evidence that proves premeditation beyond a reasonable doubt. It will be many pieces added together.
When you add to that the fact that Jodi is being caught in lies (like about the 3rd gas can), which will clearly demonstrate to the jury that she was willing to look THEM right in the face with extreme sincerity and tell THEM bald faced lies. The judge will instruct the jury that if they find Jodi lacks credibility, they do not have to believe any of her testimony.
I think both premeditation and cruelty will be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.
Quick note - I think 1 of the gas cans OG gave her had gas in it already. Explains the 2.77 gals. she put in after she filled the 2others. I have a gas can that always has gas in it (for lawnmower, snowblower, etc.). That explains why she didn't put 5 gals. in 3rd. That's all I got for tonight. I am thoroughly Jodified.
ron pssssst - don't forget about her dirty feet
You can't tell in that video!ron pssssst - don't forget about her dirty feet
Has anyone figured out what Ron_NYC's alias on 'jodiariasisinnocent.com' is yet???
You make excellent points, that is a compelling summary. But I see a big difference between covering your tracks and premeditated murder. Martinez can prove that she didn't want anybody to think she was in Arizona. Does that prove premeditated murder? Not for me, especially given her erratic and extreme behavioral history. She might have been intending to commit a crime like vandalize his house, or beat him up, but does not show intent to commit murder. She had many oppotunities to kill him but chose not to.
Was she lying in wait to ambush him? Did she kill him anonymously? Why did she risk leaving her DNA & fingerprints? Was she wearing rubber gloves? If she had latex gloves in her car, then I would say yes, premditated murder.
Actually, stealing a gun in a fake burglary and taking it to Arizona with her proves premeditation all by itself.
What other reason would there be not only to TAKE the gun with her to AZ (no gold panning trip safety here), but to stage a fake burglary and STEAL the gun?? If it was for safety or some other legitimate reason, she could have asked to borrow it.
The fact the Stabby (or anyone else) can come up with some totally ridiculous scenario to explain her actions as innocent does not equal "reasonable doubt". The thing about "reasonable doubt" is..... it HAS to be REASONABLE.
Were you crying when you were stabbing him? --SuperJuan Martinez
Nobody believes a word out of your mouth. Why do you keep talking? -- ABC Interviewer to JA
So she is nearsighted and needs glasses for distance. At 32 or whatever she is she could either keep them on or take them off to read... either would work. If she's a -2.25 or a -2.50, there's no way she would pass a drivers test and she said she hadn't worn glasses before? What world was she living in? It varies a little state by state as to what is legal to drive but here it's at least 20/40 in your good eye to have unrestricted driving (meaning u can drive during the day or at night). That's generally about a -1.00 or around that. If she is a -2.25 or -2.50, now I understand where this so called FOG came from. Geeze we could have solved the whole issue had she been wearing a pair of glasses when she murdered him! Her brain wouldn't have been scrambled and we could have gotten the real story
Thank you
Wow, FINALLY a discussion of the real issue at stake here! I'm loving this!
IMO the point where Martinez tipped the scale towards proving premeditation was the day he questioned Jodi about how she claimed she stepped on the closet shef to retrieve the gun as Travis was chasing her. Martinez showed the jury clearly how the shelf would have collapsed, therefore it could not have happened as she described. Therefore she must have had the gun with her that day...add that to the fact that a gun of the same caliber was 'stolen' from her grandparents shortly beforehand, equals she brought said gun with her to Mesa, as part of a premeditated murder plan. That, for me, was the 'smoking gun' moment.
Yes! Exactly.
Were you crying when you were stabbing him? --SuperJuan Martinez
Nobody believes a word out of your mouth. Why do you keep talking? -- ABC Interviewer to JA
I don't even know where to start!!! Totally apathy for what is going on!
Is that a real site? Ha.
I don't think she's innocent.
Oh wow. It's real alright.
The moment when I became convinced that Jodi planned his murder was in listening to her leave the "voicemail" for Travis, on his machine, as she was driving on to Utah.....after she had slaughtered him. There is no way in hell she could have made that up on the fly. That was rehearsed. Her voice is cool, calm. She does not falter in her speech, at all, as she talks about how she's sorry she missed him and blah blah blah. It is cold and calculated. She knew exactly what she was doing. That call was not conducive to the state of mind she claims she was in. It IS right in line with premediated murder, though.
Just an aside...premeditation can happen in a minute! Even if all this planning stuff before the killing happened doesn't wash she still had a minute to make her choice. JMHO.
I hadn't thought of it before, but that is an excellent point.
Were you crying when you were stabbing him? --SuperJuan Martinez
Nobody believes a word out of your mouth. Why do you keep talking? -- ABC Interviewer to JA
Now we're talking. Her behavior directly related to the murder weapons is where the money is for the prosecution. I wish they would focus more energy on that. There is an indirect link between her and a (we don't know if it's the) .25 gun. Is that conclusive enough for you to convict for premeditated murder?
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