I see Juan being a little less aggressive when he crosses the good doctor. One approach might be asking him hypothetical questions about "acute stress" going through the minds of violent murder victims at the time of their demise. It would be very interesting getting him to associate the acute stress to PTSS. Except in the case of poor Travis - he didn't get the chance to experience the "post" part.
I agree. And she doesn't make the type of responses I would expect from an abused woman. She acts one way with the defense and she's a totally different person with Martinez.Originally Posted by queenaevadamthng
Last edited by snowfallsoon; 03-15-2013 at 05:56 AM.
Couldn't agree more, on all counts. The second he made the brain/computer analogy I thought of our girl! And yesterday's "affect-less" Jodi, the blank stare, the lack of "verbage," a far cry from last week's snarky, dueling wise ass/know it all who felt self confident enough to think she could take on JM.
Well of course. I mean, why would anything think that someone who had just been stabbed 29 times, shot in the face and had their throat slit, would be dead? I'm sure he was just taking a bloody nap, curled up in the shower.
Honestly, the omelet I had for breakfast had a higher IQ than everyone on that other site combined.
I'm going to disagree, to a point. Clearly she's no Einstein, but she is clever. She planned out the murder enough that she did those things like getting the gas cans so that she didn't have to stop in AZ, or putting the license plate upside down so it couldn't be easily read. I certainly believe that once Doc and Nurmi told her that her new defense would be PTSD-related, she read up on it and educated herself to the point where she would pass the tests. Or perhaps even the doctor talked to her prior to the tests and told her what symptoms she would be showing IF she had PTSD. I think she was well-prepared.
"Well, it's YOUR fog..." - J. Martinez
Jodi did try to hone the blank stare the last day she was on the stand. It was a little late though. She also worked hard on the blank stare when Doc was on the stand.
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." D. Moynihan
See my profile page for the location of my "Dear Diary" posts in the Jodi thread. http://mydeathspace.com/vb/member.php?82091-Justice11
I don't get the point he is trying to make.Is he saying she was in a fog after the murder,or been is a fog for a long time .Also she said she shot him first but ME says he was shot last.She is lying.
Hmmm..it looks like I suffer from a MAJOR case of PTSD. I scored 20. I'm amazed I haven't killed anyone in a fog yet. Maybe I did and I just don't remember...
Hmmmm.. Art..bad? Yes. but she can draw. I did not find her singing mediocre. I couldn't believe it was that good actually. The girl can carry a tune. Not amazing by any means but good and most of all....creepy. Re: intelligence : 18 days on the stand being questioned and grilled to the bone...some slip ups, no doubt...but she kept her game going with only a handful of mistakes...and by that I mean cracks in armor. I cannot under estimate someone like that . She makes Casey Anthony look like an amateur. Perhaps, I mean criminal intelligence....
I have to disagree. : ) Juan Martinez is Juan Martinez, no kid gloves for anyone. This hired gun is in for a treat.
I wonder if JM has his expert watching her on this trial for observation. It's great he has the weekend with half this guys nonsense ton the table to prepare.
This guy can't say two words on his own without reading, and JM is a human computer in his head. This should be one hell of a cross.
THE FOG... MY GOD, THE FOG! Sooo sick of hearing about her stupid fog that conveniently occurs when it's to her advantage. The jury has to be feeling the same, right?! Can someone fill me in on what the reaction from the jury and Travis's family were yesterday during this BS? Sorry if I missed this already!
Some have said his last moments involved movement of some kind, thus the final shot. This is possible after death. I have actually seen this. Years ago, I worked in a nursing home, the woman died while I was tending to her. We laid her on the bed to be pronounced. Even after no breaths nor heartbeat, this lady rigidly kept sitting up!! Spooky to say the least.
Well, whatever approach Juan chooses - when he's finished with him the good doctor will end up being a much better witness for the prosecution than he was for the defense.I have to disagree. : ) Juan Martinez is Juan Martinez, no kid gloves for anyone. This hired gun is in for a treat.
Beth Karas InSession ?13 hours ago
The judge will hold a hearing at 12:30 pm ET/9:30 am in Phoenix to take testimony from Dr. Samuels. The jury will not be present but our cameras will. So tune in tomorrow on HLN.
[QUOTING NCBLOND NCBLONDE: I'm going to disagree, to a point. Clearly she's no Einstein, but she is clever. She planned out the murder enough that she did those things like getting the gas cans so that she didn't have to stop in AZ, or putting the license plate upside down so it couldn't be easily read. I certainly believe that once Doc and Nurmi told her that her new defense would be PTSD-related, she read up on it and educated herself to the point where she would pass the tests. Or perhaps even the doctor talked to her prior to the tests and told her what symptoms she would be showing IF she had PTSD. I think she was well-prepared."Well, it's YOUR fog..." - J. Martinez]
But think about it for it sec...if she was ago damn smart why would she test to pull the upside down plate trick if anything she called attention to herself. Why go thru the trouble of borrowing gas cans, again leaving history trail. There are enough remote places to buy gas cans and pay cash for them that no one would even think of looking. Why fake a burglary to steal a gun? If you were going to fake an intrusion or scuffle things wouldn't have been so neat and orderly in the closet. A truly intelligent sociopath knows 1st don't involve other ppl, 2nd don't leave any kind of history trail that can be linked to the crime, 3rd and most important be completely inconspicuous. So no I really don't think that she a highly evolved criminal mastermind. If you want one to compare her to check out Isreal Keyes. He flew under the radar for years and no one will ever know what all he did.
I thought the doctor was pretty good. He has taught before, and I can see why. He explained the brain and functions of such and such, IMO, pretty well. It was good enough I understood what he meant. I think he knows his stuff. If he didn't, JM would have had him thrown as an expert witness right off the bat.
His testimony had nothing to do with the verdict she is going to get. His testimony was so the jury wouldn't give her death.
I know doctors like to put a name or explanation to why people do the things they do. IMO, I think sometimes...people do things because they want to do it-and they like to do it. I just don't think every bad thing a person does has a name/reason for it. If that's the case, then nobody will ever have to take any responsibility for the actions they do.
I suspect the medical community is somewhat like this-----You can look at something and call it something, and 100 of your co-workers could look at the same thing, and everybody calls it something different.
In my own non-medical opinion....Jodi planned and wanted to kill Travis. She hated Travis. She had sex with Travis that day knowing what she planned to do later. She drove 1000 miles knowing what she planned to do. She probably thought about killing months before she actually did, but something she read or heard made it a concrete plan. She was probably laughing/taunting at him the whole time she was stabbing him. She enjoyed it. To her, it was probably better than sex.
I keep hearing about Snow White regarding the DV "expert." Can someone expound on that?
I agree that he looks like a Searcy but for some reason he reminds me of one of Snow White's dwarfs. Ironically it is the dwarf "Doc" that he reminds me most of. It's also funny that their exert witness on domestic violence believes that Snow White was an abused woman.
Also, I heard somewhere that if the DT doesn't fulfill their duty to show some kind of self defense, the judge can take it off the table at the time of deliberations. Is that true?
Exactly what I'm thinking. The defense has seemingly given up on getting her off and is focusing on saving her life since thats all they can do at this point. They know the self defense BS isn't flying with this jury and are trying to invoke sympathy with this PTSD crap.
Like someone said yesterday, she's like someone who kills their parents and then complains because they're an orphan!
-"Dick"
I hope the jury is as offended as I am with him using our great Service Men and Women and Police officers to try and explain this sociopath.This guy said his (total?) orientation towards the world is from a "clinician's perspective." That is a brazen insult that does violence to honorable members of the profession where he claims to occupy a place. He then compounds it in his primitive, professionally illiterate attempts to obliterate the distinction between Ms. Jodi Ann Arias and members of our Military and our Peace Officers in whom we have invested our Honor. The only thing he demonstrates is that he has failed to grasp the moral and ethical differences between the actions of a Jodi Arias and our soldiers and our peace officers. Our society does not give policemen, soldiers and our executioners permission to kill. Their mandate is to protect our society and to maintain order within it. To defend if from those who would reduce it to a state of chaos or to destroy it! It is a heavy burden we place upon these individuals when we equip and dispatch them to perform a duty for society that may require that they end the life of another person or even give up their own. If, and when taking the life of another becomes essential in carrying out that duty, we extend to them, in advance, exemption from prosecution under our Law. That's called a 'just' war, a 'justified' killing and it is done in our name. These individuals often suffer personal consequences, (e.g. PTSD) from what they are compelled to do at our behest. There are myriad examples where members of our military or police have taken the life of a person in circumstances, during and after their time of active service, that do not fall under that narrow legal exemption and they are prosecuted under the Law. Some are acquitted at trial for the simple reason that their actions can be connected to the weight of that burden carried over from the earlier obligation that society has imposed upon them. It appears to me that that is the essence of a PTSD defense.
Looking at the world from the perspective of a 'clinician' does not exempt any practitioner from the obligation to perceive that moral distinction. Not when we have grappled with it for centuries, (and still do) in refining it and crafting laws and establishing institutions (the Courts) that express it. Any attempt to place Ms. Jodi Ann Arias and her actions under that protective umbrella we raise over the heads of those who serve society is ethical nonsense and moral bankruptcy. Her offence was intended and carried out to only serve her own personal demons and for her own selfish ends and no other purpose. This 'clinician' is demonstrating one thing only. He is a cynical manipulator of the 'system' devoid of any moral sense. There are eminent practitioners of his 'profession' who would drum him out of their fraternity. He has defined the search for Justice that is going on in that courtroom as a hearing on nothing more than a prolonged and complicated process to secure a licence, with retroactive application to June 4, 2008, granting Jodi Ann Arias permission to murder Travis Alexander. We don't give that to anybody--ever.
I hope the members of the Jury get it. This is just another effort to confound their good judgement by subjecting them to meaningless, jargon-filled babble. Not unlike what Jodi Arias has been doing for the past eighteen days, except it is a little more polished. There is more at stake here than the pathetic, lethal existence of Jodi Arias.
I'll quit now.
Last edited by Ian 1; 03-15-2013 at 08:30 AM.
"Of all the emotions, the most dangerous emotion is love." P.D James
"Do you not realize, my son, with how little wisdom this world is run?" Baron von Oxenstiema"
Tawnidilly on the job for us again! Thanks
As long as it's not "manscaping" we should be safe, JM will take care of him on cross.
We don't know the actual reason for putting the plate upside down, but we can theorize.
1. She was afraid of being caught on camera, either at a toll or a gas station or something of the sort, and she thought putting the plate upside would make it harder to read.
2. She did it in case any of the neighbors saw her hauling her bloody stuff to the car and took down the plate out of suspicion.
3. She wanted to call attention to the plate on purpose. Remember she got stopped in Utah. Neither of Travis' roommates was home during the day after the murder, until evening, so they likely wouldn't have found his body till then, at the earliest (which if course it turns out 5 days went by, not just 1). If the body is found on the 5th, well Jodi is in Utah and she has proof, i.e. an alibi. The cop stopped her, there was proof she was in Utah. What better alibi than a police officer saying she was in Utah at the time the body was discovered? Of course that point was moot because of the bloody palm print (which she tried to explain away), and the camera photos (which she thought she erased).
We don't really know and we probably never will.
Why borrow gas cans? So there wouldn't be a record of her buying them. But she must've discovered that 2 cans wasn't going to be enough, so she had to take a chance. I'm sure she never thought they would connect the gas cans to Darryl, and I don't really know how they did, but they did. Sure she could've wandered off the trail to someplace out of the way to purchase gas, but she was all about planning. If she took a specific route, also, they could have checked surveillance cameras at various places along that route. Sure it would take time to go through them, but depending on the "remoteness" of the area, there may not be tons of gas stations to choose from.
Why fake the burglary for the gun? Well, she needed a weapon, and it was much more risky to borrow one or try and buy one. As far as the robbery scene looking less than impressive, I agree. But, the thing is, not everyone who robs completely turns a place upside down. If you have something in mind (which many robbers do), you go in and get what you were looking for -- something of value that can be sold, money laying around, or weapons if that's what you're looking for. I have to figure she did not know much about guns at all, so that's why she took such a small caliber, also it was palm-sized so easy to conceal. She probably didn't realize that it wouldn't get the job done.
Keep in mind too, that if you're robbing a place, you perhaps don't want the robbery to be obvious right away, giving you time to get away and unload any items of value before it's discovered. It's not like people take inventory of every item they have when they come and go from their home, so they might not notice cash has gone missing or the dvd player is gone, for hours, or longer.
As for what I bolded, I believe she did just that, or was trying to. She was trying to involve as few people as possible. But, she had to get the gas cans without having a record of the purchase and she needed someone to get her to the rental car place. But she told those people she was taking a routine road trip, which she was apparently known to do, so they probably didn't think anything of it, until afterwards.
She also tried not to leave a history trail and probably would've gotten away with it if not for the camera photos and palm print. She did try to erase the photos and she thought they were gone. She either scooped up the camera accidentally or threw it in the washer on purpose, figuring it would be too ruined to retrieve anything. She tried to explain away the dna and palm print because she was there many times and would've naturally left dna behind.
And I do think she believed she was being inconspicuous. She rented a car so that hers wouldn't be spotted. She purposely asked for something that wouldn't stand out. She showed up in the middle of the night, when 1 roommate was not there and the other would be sleeping and never know she was there. She planned out the visit to Ryan Burns to show she was "over" Travis. Remember she told Martinez that it was okay for her to be macking on Ryan because "I'm single" at that point. She was trying to show that she wasn't interested/obsessed with Travis because she was involved with Ryan now.
IF she dyed her hair specifically for the trip --which of course has been debated -- she was trying to not stand out with her platinum blonde hair should any of the neighbors see her.
I personally haven't said, and don't believe, that she is a criminal mastermind. I do feel that she was clever and planned a lot out. There were too problems for her.
1. She wasn't as clever as she thought she was.
2. She was tripped up because things didn't go as planned. Travis didn't die easily. He put up a struggle for his life. Everything else was in her control -- the planning and premeditation, and the aftermath of the murder with her trip to Utah and going back to work as normal.
"Well, it's YOUR fog..." - J. Martinez
This doctor bs is horseshit. It's not rationalizing nor gaining sympathy points for the killer. I hate how this doctor jargon is used to make excuses... This bitch got PSTD (yeah, that's how my mom said it;) from murdering Travis.
Someone mentioned where/how the killer unloaded the rest of the crap she stole from grannie; I liked that comment and I wish they could get og or perjurer to admit killer dumped the crap on them...
I think that has been her goal all along.
Offered to plea bargain TWICE
Eyeballs the jury to say 2-3 times how she doesn't believe anyone should be killed. Which she thinks is her clever smarter than everyone suggestive magic.
Sends that idiot Donovan out to say, she knows she should be punished but not the DP
While all the while slaughter the victim again to claim self defense.
What do you mean-was stuff stolen from JA's grandmother?
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