Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death

[morbidT]

The blackness under his buttocks looks too big to be a drain. Notice how the pool is expanded under him towards the shower back wall, towards his other leg ( which is not shown). If she stabbed him in the back, you would not see blood running down this chest. Also underneath his leg you see lighter reddish discoloration. Could be blood mixed with water. If this picture was accidentally taken right after she stabbed him once or twice in the back, then there would not be a great deal of blood yet.

I see a drain. Most definitely a drain. The blackness under his butt is his body's shadow on the drain. I've often thought the drain cover may be tilted, but it is not blood. How could she stab him in the back if he is sitting against the shower wall? And, even if he was stabbed in the back, there would be blood wash. He had enough solid tissue, on his back, for it to bleed pretty good (if he were already stabbed in the back). Not like the adipose tissue he had on his gut.

[wasthinking]

Sorry but this is simply not true. They do not let their threads run to hundreds of pages. The attitudes displayed here on this subject are embarassing. The graciousness with which the court observer in question has treated this subject (reposts) is head and shoulders above what I have seen here. You might spend a llittle time on Websleuths before spouting off.

Huh? you are here complaining about here? Does it really matter in the big picture of a MURDER of an innocent man where what information comes from? Aren't you happy just to get any facts? Is there some glory flag some need for themselves vs supporting the family by letting the true facts be shared wherever they can be?

[Peace Corpse]

I see a drain. Most definitely a drain. The blackness under his butt is his body's shadow on the drain. I've often thought the drain cover may be tilted, but it is not blood. How could she stab him in the back if he is sitting against the shower wall? And, even if he was stabbed in the back, there would be blood wash. He had enough solid tissue, on his back, for it to bleed pretty good (if he were already stabbed in the back). Not like the adipose tissue he had on his gut.

I don't see the shadow....I see expanded darkness of some kind under his rear end. The drain does not look tilted in the photo of the shower after his body was removed. If he was standing with his back to her, she could have stabbed him and then he slid down the side to get away. At least one of his arms is up in the air in this photo. Oh well, only Jodi knows for sure....

[poppym]

I see a drain. Most definitely a drain. The blackness under his butt is his body's shadow on the drain. I've often thought the drain cover may be tilted, but it is not blood. How could she stab him in the back if he is sitting against the shower wall? And, even if he was stabbed in the back, there would be blood wash. He had enough solid tissue, on his back, for it to bleed pretty good (if he were already stabbed in the back). Not like the adipose tissue he had on his gut.

It is a shadow. It's so dark because there is no flash used in the photogragh! I believe her when she says that this was an accidental shot. She would have been preparing to injure him at this point (had to be)! Remember how indignant she was with Juan about this photo? "Well it certainly wasn't intentional!" Good photographers don't cut heads off! She sure turned out to be a pretty bad snapper!!

[Peace Corpse]

But who's to say that Travis was really into Anal anyway. These are Jodi's stories, remember. She is sticking to her story that he liked anal so much so it fits with his "like" of little boys...

Good point. However, his texts and the phone sex calls seem to indicate that he was into it.

[wasthinking]

Yes! I want to do all the Jury questions at least. I only stopped because it's the very wee hours here and time for a sleepy tea-bag. But it's not tedious. She is quite a fascination! More to come before Wednesday!!

I agree, it isn't really her, she does fascinate me. Sometimes I actually forget to listen and end up just watching her moves closely. Oh btw, to the jury, yes yes yes! I agree, they were the first to get to her!
I even caught her voice shaking and she was stuttering around. Loved seeing its possible. There's an old vid if you haven't seen it that is interesting. Just go to the end guy to save time but I enjoyed this self professed narcissist display. Especially how he explains what starts his rage. http://youtu.be/SG4c97xXx84?t=38m17s

Its really Nurmi that I find hard to get through. I'll dig around and see if I have others. I'll just make a mini list to save on not posting singles. If I duplicate, please ignore and toss them out and don't hit me. lol

[denn]

On another note, I feel if I have so many questions as to how she initially attacked him (her story is not believable to me one iota!), how does the jury form a clear picture of how he was initially attacked, if I am having problems with it myself??

If she did start attacking him in the shower, that evidence was washed away when she turned the shower on after stuffing his body in it. My idea still holds that I think she got him at the sink, when he was drying his hair, or maybe when he was trying to get up from the shower to get out. It was a surprise attack. Gun was last resort. I just feel that casing feel close to where the gun was used. I find it difficult to believe someone would kick it and with the fact there had to be blood all over that floor, that no sides show blood.

[Sweetharmony]

Yes, he will bring witness on in his rebuttal stage. I haven't found a complete list but I know he has a shrink coming in [to counter her experts probably].
Matt has never been called yet so Juan wouldn't need to reserve anything on him. Matt is on the DEF lists. I think what you see with JM bringing him up is .. he is warning the DEF, bring him on and aon cross exam, I will smash him to pieces.
It could even be worse, they, meaning LE / State might have a big cloud over Matt's head. If he comes in, he is going to be damned. Meaning, his own life hell potential. Obstruction of justice? Perjury? Shit, don't think they couldn't go so far as to make his life hell outside this case and have LE [on Jodi's testimony] searching his house for unregistered guns. All I can say is if I was Matt, I'd have contacted an atty long ago! He has more worries imo than lying for Jodi at this point.

Apologies if someone has already addressed this - I'm still trying to catch up! Matt McCartney does have a lawyer - she was Jodi's original lawyer and had to withdraw from the case because of a conflict of interest - because McCartney was her client! When she was allowed to withdraw as Jodi's lawyer Nurmi tried to get off the case aalso but was not allowed to because of the additional delay it would have caused and the trial had already been delayed a few times. That's part of the reason it has been years between the crime and the trial.

[denn]

The initial part of my post above was this: A commentator made a comment that Martinez rarely gets to ask killers questions because most do not take the stand.

[morbidT]

I don't see the shadow....I see expanded darkness of some kind under his rear end. The drain does not look tilted in the photo of the shower after his body was removed. If he was standing with his back to her, she could have stabbed him and then he slid down the side to get away. At least one of his arms is up in the air in this photo. Oh well, only Jodi knows for sure....

Yes, the darkness emanating from his gooch is the shower drain. It isn't tilted in the pic after his body was removed is because there is no uneven weight on it to tilt it. If that pic was taken after he was stabbed with his back to her, I have a lot more reason to believe their would be blood wash. And more of it. All over the shower. His arm isn't raised in the pic, he's crossing his arms around his knees.

You are 100% correct on only Jodi knows for sure. That's the unfortunate thing.

It is a shadow. It's so dark because there is no flash used in the photogragh! I believe her when she says that this was an accidental shot. She would have been preparing to injure him at this point (had to be)! Remember how indignant she was with Juan about this photo? "Well it certainly wasn't intentional!" Good photographers don't cut heads off! She sure turned out to be a pretty bad snapper!!

I do to.

[denn]

poppym OOPS, I had a multi quote stuck in there yet and it landed in with you. Sorry, it was unintentional lol

I have a question for anyone out there that has her eyesight. If you are nearsighted, would you be able to see what was supposedly the pedo pic at your feet?
Im the opposite, farsighted so can't try it out. would her distance vision 2.0 / 2.5 or whatever she said it was still be able to actually see pics on the floor?

OMG - that is such a GOOD question!!

[Peace Corpse]

I doubt he'd be just sitting there once he was stabbed. As soon as she started stabbing him his instincts would be to get the Hell out of the corner she'd put him in. Fight or flight would have kicked in and he wouldn't be sitting. And the stab wounds to his back were horrendous gaping wounds. There would be loads of blood by then streaming down behind him in the shower. The water pressure was poor in the upstairs part of the house. I just can't see how it's possible.

He could have slid down to get away from her at this second. The camera is only capturing a second of time. Perhaps his arm is above his head blocking her threats. We don't know how many stab wounds she inflicted at once. Perhaps she stabbed him once or twice in the back first. The back stab wounds were not that deep. Anyway, who knows for sure. I am just saying that it looks to me that there is something under his buttocks other than the drain.

[wasthinking]

Well, I have seen the retina images of her kneeling. She is holding the camera. So, no timer. Wished someone could magnify the image of that reflection. Her hair is tied on each side of her head. She had braids, so she did not undo them. She tied them on each side to form a knot.

Sorry denn, no offense intended, but I don't go for junk science or salaciousness with no value to it. All they are playing with anyway is 5th generation copies. If it had any forensic value, you'd see it used by law enforcement, you don't. Courts would never allow such nonsense.

[Jadedmile]

I think this conversation is CRITICAL! Jodi did something SPECIFIC that pushed Travis to say that's it, he's done with her for good. I am willing to bet that the day these texts were sent was the day she decided to follow through with thoughts she had already had about killing him. And Facebook messages were involved, sent by Travis to Jodi about whatever had happened to make him say she was a sociopath and the worst thing that had ever happened to him. That's the key right there. The Facebook messages. I wonder why JM hasn't been able to get his hands on them!?!?

I think she tried to blackmail him with sex pics, videos, or taped conversations that she threatened to send to his bishop and friends in the church, or at PPL. It would have hurt him to the core to know she would tempt him, seduce him, and then use it as a weapon to betray him to the people who actually mattered to him. She has always used sex as a weapon IMHO.

my thoughts EXACTLY! N in that one I think he meant to type "shamed," not "scammed." She was totally threatening to blackmail him!

[wasthinking]

Apologies if someone has already addressed this - I'm still trying to catch up! Matt McCartney does have a lawyer - she was Jodi's original lawyer and had to withdraw from the case because of a conflict of interest - because McCartney was her client! When she was allowed to withdraw as Jodi's lawyer Nurmi tried to get off the case aalso but was not allowed to because of the additional delay it would have caused and the trial had already been delayed a few times. That's part of the reason it has been years between the crime and the trial.

I don't see how that could be possible. How would Matt, living in California qualify for an Arizona Public Defender?
The court records do not state who Victoria Washington had a conflict of interest regarding so I don't see how anyone could tag it to Matt with any support as a fact. I didnt find any criminal case on record in AZ with Victoria representing Matt either. Additionally, Matt was known since the beginning of Nurmi and Washington's representation so she wouldn't have waited to make a motion on conflict of interest.
Nurmi requested off because, he had left the PD's office to start a private practice and the PD office withdrew all their support and funds. That is why the judge ordered them to pay Nurmi and put back all the support / cooperation for her def.

[poppym]

I agree, it isn't really her, she does fascinate me. Sometimes I actually forget to listen and end up just watching her moves closely. Oh btw, to the jury, yes yes yes! I agree, they were the first to get to her!
I even caught her voice shaking and she was stuttering around. Loved seeing its possible. There's an old vid if you haven't seen it that is interesting. Just go to the end guy to save time but I enjoyed this self professed narcissist display. Especially how he explains what starts his rage. http://youtu.be/SG4c97xXx84?t=38m17s

Its really Nurmi that I find hard to get through. I'll dig around and see if I have others. I'll just make a mini list to save on not posting singles. If I duplicate, please ignore and toss them out and don't hit me. lol

Hey thanks so much for the Narcissists Doc! I will watch tomorrow (or today I mean). Nurmi has a very unfortunate style (unless it's deliberate)! Still think she might try to overturn her conviction via ineffective counsel.

[wasthinking]

Hey thanks so much for the Narcissists Doc! I will watch tomorrow (or today I mean). Nurmi has a very unfortunate style (unless it's deliberate)! Still think she might try to overturn her conviction via ineffective counsel.

She will indeed try it, its standard appeal stuff. But it will be denied on that one. I've read some appeals for AZ and most of those ineffective counsels are blowing smoke and denied. I should have kept the one where the damn atty even dozed off in court once! lmao and that was denied.
Just my opinion but I think he's dragging it out on purpose. For the reasons I stated earlier and, for his own pocket. Hell, at the rate he goes, he is earning double that 225.00 hr if not more. What advertsiing huh? Any sucker dumb enough to get a quote from him better triple it the hourly rate.

Maybe you should give me a few numbers to work on so we aren't duplicating efforts? I'll copy the numbers you posted tonight too so I don't go for those. Are you numbering them from 46 where the court started I think, or going by 1 on? The few I had were because I was going back and matching up her story on direct vs cross versions kind of thing.

[Jillee]

He could have slid down to get away from her at this second. The camera is only capturing a second of time. Perhaps his arm is above his head blocking her threats. We don't know how many stab wounds she inflicted at once. Perhaps she stabbed him once or twice in the back first. The back stab wounds were not that deep. Anyway, who knows for sure. I am just saying that it looks to me that there is something under his buttocks other than the drain.

I think if that were the case, Martinez would have been all over it like a white on rice. It would be additional proof that she stabbed him first and she couldn't claim that the gun was first. imo

[wasthinking]

Yes, the darkness emanating from his gooch is the shower drain. It isn't tilted in the pic after his body was removed is because there is no uneven weight on it to tilt it. If that pic was taken after he was stabbed with his back to her, I have a lot more reason to believe their would be blood wash. And more of it. All over the shower. His arm isn't raised in the pic, he's crossing his arms around his knees.

You are 100% correct on only Jodi knows for sure. That's the unfortunate thing.




I do to.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to morbidT again.

Some where around there is a pic of just the empty shower with a clear capture of just the drain. Maybe tawnidilly? or HLN. I agree its just the drain so I'm not hunting it down.

[morbidT]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to morbidT again.

Some where around there is a pic of just the empty shower with a clear capture of just the drain. Maybe tawnidilly? or HLN. I agree its just the drain so I'm not hunting it down.

Yeah, I've seen the pics. It's definitely a drain. I'm not hunting it down, either. Ain't nobody got time for dat.

[wasthinking]

Yeah, I've seen the pics. It's definitely a drain. I'm not hunting it down, either. Ain't nobody got time for dat.

DEF tried to motion against ref to Travis as the victim. They lost, DENIED.
DEF tried to get a protective order preventing HLN from calling him a victim, they lost.

Day 28 57:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpIB0...ature=youtu.be

I just have to share my happy dance. In the last few days HLN called him a victim and listen to JM, stick that pin under killers nails warms my heart. Bring me some more Juan Martinez!

Martinez: Objection. ' the question was ... not whether or not she spoke with the VICTIM'

[loonywop]

Random and delayed, but didn't Travis' family say something about the ribbons being his "second-favorite" color? That's weird. What was his favorite color?

that and who has a second favorite color?

[poppym]

She will indeed try it, its standard appeal stuff. But it will be denied on that one. I've read some appeals for AZ and most of those ineffective counsels are blowing smoke and denied. I should have kept the one where the damn atty even dozed off in court once! lmao and that was denied.
Just my opinion but I think he's dragging it out on purpose. For the reasons I stated earlier and, for his own pocket. Hell, at the rate he goes, he is earning double that 225.00 hr if not more. What advertsiing huh? Any sucker dumb enough to get a quote from him better triple it the hourly rate.

Maybe you should give me a few numbers to work on so we aren't duplicating efforts? I'll copy the numbers you posted tonight too so I don't go for those. Are you numbering them from 46 where the court started I think, or going by 1 on? The few I had were because I was going back and matching up her story on direct vs cross versions kind of thing.

Well we could do it this way perhaps? I was using bermstalkers excellent list of Jury question: http://mydeathspace.com/vb/showthrea...t=#post3345942, specifically looking for freudian slips, e.g. when she says something truthful by mistake! She knows that the Jury have the ultimate power over her, which is why she is so rattled by their questions. The questions clearly demonstrate that they are on to her, and because of this, she isn't on her game. Anyway, I got up to question number 77 from bermstalker's list and can continue with that. You have covered Q109 on that list "where I was standing" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lymxsMGQDnY At 56:48. There could be a list of inconsistent testimony, which will certainly cross over with some of jury questions. Direct versus cross would be very interesting! I noticed that loads! What do you think?

[poppym]

DEF tried to motion against ref to Travis as the victim. They lost, DENIED.
DEF tried to get a protective order preventing HLN from calling him a victim, they lost.

Day 28 57:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpIB0...ature=youtu.be

I just have to share my happy dance. In the last few days HLN called him a victim and listen to JM, stick that pin under killers nails warms my heart. Bring me some more Juan Martinez!

Martinez: Objection. ' the question was ... not whether or not she spoke with the VICTIM'

I will need to find you all the place where Jennifer Willmott called Travis the 'VICTIM'! Very early days, I'll go looking! But minutes later she objected to Juan saying 'the Murder'! Too funny!

[wasthinking]

Well we could do it this way perhaps? I was using bermstalkers excellent list of Jury question: http://mydeathspace.com/vb/showthrea...t=#post3345942, specifically looking for freudian slips, e.g. when she says something truthful by mistake! She knows that the Jury have the ultimate power over her, which is why she is so rattled by their questions. The questions clearly demonstrate that they are on to her, and because of this, she isn't on her game. Anyway, I got up to question number 77 from bermstalker's list and can continue with that. You have covered Q109 on that list "where I was standing" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lymxsMGQDnY At 56:48. There could be a list of inconsistent testimony, which will certainly cross over with some of jury questions. Direct versus cross would be very interesting! I noticed that loads! What do you think?

I'm in :) Thanks for berms list! You are right, they kind of are two different animals.
okay, I'll go on with my slow crawl across direct and cross hunts. I haven't made a list, just notes when I hear something that bothers me. But I will try to develop them into one.
I'll keep berm's and your lists, and when I see things, toss them to you with links and times in the format you've got for us already.