Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death

[smashie]

Lol, that question makes more sense.

I don't know the answer. My guess would be yes.



Sorry about your uncle.

Rigor mortis sets in at some point, and then goes away.

From wikipedia:
Rigor mortis (Latin: rigor "stiffness", mortis "of death") is one of the recognizable signs of death, caused by chemical changes in the muscles after death, causing the limbs of the corpse to become stiff and difficult to move or manipulate.[1] In humans, it commences after about three to four hours, reaches maximum stiffness after 12 hours, and gradually dissipates until approximately 48 to 60 hours after death.[2]

Yeah... My communication skills tonight are lacking... Sorry

[morbidT]

Wow! I have always wanted to sit in on an autopsy and experience it first hand. I'm sure your job is amazing and stressful!

I don't work in the morgue anymore. I actually really liked it. I know that sounds horrible. It was so interesting though. I did the same thing every day, but each case was different. I really didn't have any stress from it either. That probably sounds horrible, too. I didn't perform ME cases, though. I performed "natural" cases. So, if someone died in the hospital that wasn't an ME case. The ME office was across the street from the hospital and I became friends with the staff over there. They use to call me and tell me to come over to see the cool stuff.

[Harlette]

I think the middle guy is infamous matt. Google his name and images. He twitters and used to chat with google+. He recently made his google+ private. It had one comment that he was anxious to be able to have social networking again and would be happy when the mess he is involved with is over and he said if you know me, you know what Im talking about. PM me and Ill tell you the twitter name. I think he googles his name and nicknames periodically and then makes them private if someone catches on. I posted before about him with a pic and the next day his google+ became private so I don't want to put it in a public forum.

i don't think thats matt - his pic is posted in here a few times from his myspace b4 he deleted it (some one hacked it and posted his phone number a few months ago) - and every one in that pic is wearing t shirts from PPL and mario is travis' friend from PPL- i don't think he was involved w/ that -

as far as him saying the mess he is involved in??? he shoulda thought of that b4 he posted he would lie for her on that crazy jodi site - and told so many stories he had to get a Public defender - but i bet we see him soon on the stand as a witness talking about their super secret magazine code

[Harlette]

matt

[twisted-texan]

I can tell you this...the five people mentioned most often in this thread are: Jodi, Travis, Martinez, Nurmi, and Ron.

So true!!

[Wishmich]

The last photo of Travis was taken when he was SITTING DOWN in the shower [as per Flores]. That is the position he was in when Arias administered the first blow to the heart. It was probably here that he tried to fight her off, hence the defensive wounds to his hands. Travis then stumbled or crawled to the sink where he coughed up blood. Arias then stabbed him to the head and back. He probably tried to defend himself here as well. He then turned and made his way to the door, collapsed and crawled to get away from her. She pulled his head back while he was on all fours and slit his throat, nearly decapitated him.

Arias probably coached Travis to sit down, so he would be even more vulnerable. She wanted him to bleed out in the shower. In other words, to put it bluntly "no mess, no fuss". BUT, she did not count on the fact that he would defend himself and get out. She now had to fight him to the death, otherwise, if he lived to tell, she would be behind bars. He got out, weak, wet and bleeding. He needed to get to his feet, but could not, due to slipping from a combination of water and blood pumping out of his chest wound and mouth. The only way he was able to get to his feet was to grab onto something and pull himself up. THE SINK. Whilst on his feet, she STABBED HIM IN THE BACK AND HEAD. He turned and ?ran?, collapsing halfway, she pulled his head back and slit his throat.

As he lay dying [or dead] she shot him in the head.

Her desire was to KILL him. The only problem came when she saw he did not die with the first chest stab.

Arias' goal was to plan and execute the perfect, premeditated murder. She would go to his house, soften him up, get him in the shower with water running, coerce him to sit and stab him in the heart. She hoped he would bleed out and die in the shower cubicle, that way the running water would have cleaned his body from dna, bodily fluids, etc. She would then leave immediately and get on with her alibi building ? calling and leaving texts.

She DID NOT COUNT ON TRAVIS GETTING UP AFTER THE FIRST STAB WOUND.

I hope this helps put things in perspective for those who asked. Travis posed willingly in the shower. Arias is not superwoman and in no way could she focus a camera [in one hand] whilst holding a knife/gun [in the other].

Hi, everyone. First post here and I, too, cannot get this case out of my mind. In all my limited free time, I try to envision what happened exactly because it obviously doesn't fit with what Jodi said. I agree with the above scenario with just one slightly different take.

I think she had the knife duct taped to her somewhere that he could not see. She was flipping out; talking "stalkerish" while he was sitting in the shower and taking the last photo. I felt she was going to MAKE him listen to her and he knew this time was different; hence, the odd look on his face. Then I think part of her story is true. I think she pulled out the knife and simultaneously when he saw it, he went to grab it(perhaps linebacker style) and she stabbed him ; and that's when she dropped the camera. I think as he was trying to get away, stopped at the sink, fell and crawled down the hallway, she was repeatedly stabbing him in the back. It appeared he had many more stab wounds to the back than to the front, so I think any reasonable person would determine that he was getting away from the attack, not moving into it as she claims.

It's really hard for me to believe he would say "kill you bitch". I think his only concern was trying to stay alive and would not have wasted strength on speaking. Anyway, I am so grateful to be able to say all this to someone! It's been so frustrating to not be able to discuss it with anyone. This murder haunts me. Thank you all for having me!

[bryanwasdrunk]

LOL, I know why she said she blacked out.

One theory of burglary JM gave in the evidentiary hearing involved the defensive wounds on TA's hands. Obviously he was alive when she cut through his hands, and even if TA invited her into his home she was no longer welcome at that point. By having the blackout, she can say she didn't know she wasn't welcome at that point, and therefore didn't have the mens rea for committing burglary, and therefore not guilty of burglary and finally not guilty of felony murder.

ETA:
JM made a strong point in cross examination on the last day about her taking the gun she said belonged to Travis Alexander and disposing of it. I think he's getting his alternate theory of burglary together.

[Poppycock]

And one of them is a successful limelight seeker ~ kudos Ron.

Really just wanted to ask this, did Jodi take a deliberate pic of Travis dead in the shower or is that a crime scene photo i am thinking of?

[dianalyn]

Welcome Sweetharmony!
I love your thoughts and think you are right on with many of them. I do not think that Travis was in love with Jodi. I think she killed that. I think maybe at the beginning he really did kind of fall for her. But her game playing and manipulations turned him off. I think he didn't know how to deny the sexual attraction though. I think a lot of people who go into a relationship a virgin and that relationship isn't a good one, don't know how to get out. They are attached in that deep way that your "first" can only claim in your life.
I also think that with most of what she has said if you turn it from her thinking/feeling/saying it, that the words or feelings came from Travis. I think she made him suffer at the end. I think she did hear him scream out that he couldn't feel his legs. I wonder if he also told her he was getting cold as he bled out and she continued to stab him? I think she is a cold hearted bitch.
Someone else said something about dying with your eyes open. No, not all people die with their eyes open. Some close them. I don't know what the ration is, I just know that some die with them open and some die with them close. I thought we had all heard that one of the autopsy photos (one we haven't seen - the whole of Travis' face), that his eyes are open. (I do not think I want to see that one, the one of his mouth was hard enough IMHO).

No, I don't want to see anything like that either, if it is ever posted please a HUGE warning, it would give me nightmares.
If Jodi would have held out and not had sex with Travis do you think he would have had more respect for her? Would she have been a more acceptable candidate for his future wife ?
Did the very thing she was using to entrap him turn into the thing that let him know she was not "the one"?

Also, during her breakdown yesterday when Martinez is saying "Didn't you say that he was the mean, horrible man" she broke in and said, he wasn't horrible. Do you think she at all was finally feeling something for Travis instead of just for Jodi?

[bryanwasdrunk]

Ron, GG saw your troll over on the state page. Those guys are kinda cray-cray. They're not gonna have to go on suicide watch if she walks, Jodi's gonna have to grow eyes in the back of her head.

[Ron_NYC]

Ron, GG saw your troll over on the state page. Those guys are kinda cray-cray. They're not gonna have to go on suicide watch if she walks, Jodi's gonna have to grow eyes in the back of her head.

[dianalyn]

Also from HLN- the court reporter- I love his voice- http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/03...er?hpt=hln10_1

[Monkey King]

Hey folks! "Another Newbie" here. Just dropping in to say HELLO and look forward to posting with you.

[Msmichie]

No, I don't want to see anything like that either, if it is ever posted please a HUGE warning, it would give me nightmares.
If Jodi would have held out and not had sex with Travis do you think he would have had more respect for her? Would she have been a more acceptable candidate for his future wife ?
Did the very thing she was using to entrap him turn into the thing that let him know she was not "the one"?

Also, during her breakdown yesterday when Martinez is saying "Didn't you say that he was the mean, horrible man" she broke in and said, he wasn't horrible. Do you think she at all was finally feeling something for Travis instead of just for Jodi?

Honestly, I do think that to some degree. That if she hadn't introduced him to oral and anal and KY.. she would have had a better chance. BUT, I also think that she was so nutso that he was already starting to see the "real Jodi" and she used her body and sex to try to seduce him into loving her. Let's be honest here. He was really trying to live a moral, christian life. His faith said that sex before marriage is wrong - I am sure part of that belief is that the person you give yourself to is considered your spouse in some religions and if you don't marry that person and have sex with others, then with all of the others you are committing adultery. I grew up in a very strict christian home and this was what I learned growing up.
Travis was trying to be a better man. Trying to live up to the "laws" of his religion. Jodi knew those laws and I do think she is the one who told him that anal and oral were not sex, so they could do that. I think Travis knew that that was really not true, but I don't know many men who would see a woman standing naked in front of them and walk away. Especially one who swallows and is into anal, (like Jodi obviously was). That is a lot of men's dream. It's like living a porno.
I think he treated her badly because he wanted her to go away and she wouldn't. Every time he thought he was through with her - and we have evidence he told her a couple of times to stay away from him - she would suck him back in, needing help or using sex.
I also think Travis did want a "pure" girl. Jodi hadn't been pure for a long time, she was into freaky things. She was willing to be tied up, have anal sex, swallow during oral, dress up, and stoke his fantasies. These are all things that a "good Christian girl" wouldn't do. (at least in my religion.) She would never be those things that he really wanted or needed. He couldn't trust her, he didn't believe her and she wasn't good for him. I think he wanted his money back that she owed him and I think that's why he stayed in touch with her. Not to mention his religion thinks highly of forgiveness.
Unfortunately, their paths crossed. This was never going to end well. If she hadn't killed him she would have continued to stalk him unless he moved and ceased all contact with her. But he couldn't just move houses, he would have to move states and disappear from the places she knew about. Hell, she sent his grandmother flowers and his family an 18 page letter. She set her sights on him and she wasn't going to let go. It was her or no one.
I would love to think that for a second when she admitted to Martinez that Travis wasn't horrible that she really believed it. That for once since this whole nightmare happened she actually felt something for what she did to Travis, but I don't know if I can believe it. Jodi only cares about Jodi. Her tears and emotions are all about her and what she's going through now... not Travis. If she truly had loved Travis she would never have allowed her DT to drag him through the mud the way she has. He did nothing to her other than not love her the way she wanted. He didn't deserve to be killed for not wanting to marry her nor does he deserve to be dragged through the mud in this case just to save her sorry butt.
I do think he would want her to admit her sins and repent and ask God for forgiveness like his religion, (and hers too at one point), says they should. But she won't. Not publicly. Maybe she has done it in private, but saving her butt is more important than doing right by Travis.

[Msmichie]

Hey folks! "Another Newbie" here. Just dropping in to say HELLO and look forward to posting with you.

Hi Monkey King, welcome!

[Ron_NYC]

Hey folks! "Another Newbie" here. Just dropping in to say HELLO and look forward to posting with you.

Sir, I doubt you are royalty.

[NCBlonde]

I am the one who speculated that she closed his eyes. It appears that his eyes are closed in the crime scene pics I've seen. (I could be wrong though.) As for the autopsy photos, I've never seen one of his face. But, the examiner could have opened them, right?

Doesn't really matter...I was just speculating is all...this was nothing that she admitted to.

ETA: yes, people do die with their eyes open. They call it the "death stare." It's very disturbing. :(





I can see points on both sides of this.
Just wanted to say how much I appreciate everyone respecting each others' opinions and discussing it like adults. Well done.

ETA: I just poured myself a glass of wine! Cheers!

Yeah in autopsies, they do check all body areas and note if there were any abnormalities, eyes included. I recall from the ME's report that the eyes had "no lesions" and something else, which I don't recall. So if the eyes were closed, he definitely opened them.

Two questions:

How do you account for the fact that the first stab to the heart was described as being from an upward angle rather than a downward angle by the ME?

How could she get a nice clean stab straight into his chest when he was sitting with his knees bent (which would block her access) plus his arms and shoulders up above the knees, possibly crossed over his knees?


Those two things are the reason I question that there is definitive PROOF that this first stab was when he was sitting in the shower.

I don't think the chest wound to the heart is inconsistent with his sitting in the shower. Jodi herself said she was crouched down by the shower. And if that's the case, she would be somewhat on the same level as Travis. If the picture is taken while he's sitting, that's confirmed because the picture is straight on and not looking down on him.

I would assume that when she pulled the knife -- if he was sitting in the shower, he tried to stand up. Staying seated would leave him in the most vulnerable position.

If he stands up quicker, even by a little bit, and she jammed the knife straight on, it would go in with a slight upward trajectory. For the record, I am watching the ME on cross right now and he said it was straight on. Wilmott tried to say it's upward. ME said IF it was upward, it was very slight. That to me is consisted with her pulling the knife while crouched and he is sitting and starting to get up.

My uncle passed away last year from cancer and he had the death stare... We tried to close his eyes and they wouldn't close! It was the creepiest thing. I'm not sure if you could open them. I'm sure you could slightly but if he had rigamortis (sp?), it would probably be hard. Now I wonder?

Yeah, the ME's report said that rigor mortis had passed, i.e. Travis' body was no longer in RM, not stiff. So, it's possible the eyes were opened or closed post-mortem.

[NCBlonde]

Sir, I doubt you are royalty.

[Metis212]

Overall Martinez receives a B for his examination of JA. Why didn't he get a mock-up of the wall with the palm print and show how the blood would come from her ring finger? He got stuck in the "when did he shave" whirlpool because Jodi was hiding something. I still believe JA had a fresh Brazilian wax and was too sensitive to receive oral sex. But if she admitted getting waxed, it would be another premeditated factor. The demonstration was brilliant because the forensic evidence doesn't support TA being in that position. Had he been in that position, the bullet would have gone straight thru his skull rather than a diagonal downward direction. This case is sooooo interesting because there is so much information to wade thru and decide what is important. No way did they prove self defense- she ran down that hall and could have run out of the house. No wet naked man is going to chase a dressed woman outside.

Speaking of TA in the shower, did anyone notice that his robe was still hanging up next to the shower in the crime scene pics? If he was the aggressor, he most likely would have put it on. If the first stabs were to his chest, he would not have had the consciousness to grab it. He was too busy trying to get away.

Two minutes of intense searing pain is enough to convict Murder 1, I think. Two minutes is along time to die.

[Monkey King]

And your opinion matters to me...WHY?

Nice to meet you~

[Monkey King]

Oh, and Ron...NYC~

I'm also from NYC- the Bronx.

[jingles]

JM still has his rebuttal case to put on to refute her claims, present evidence, and then the all important closing argument. The judge may also allow him re-cross, after Nurmi's re-direct.

And he did, in his case, show photos of the bloody wall and the palm print, and later confronted her with that evidence when cross examining her. She, of course, claimed "foggy moment" and couldn't explain how it got there, but the evidence speaks for itself; the jury gets it. He also played her interview with Det. Flores during which he confronted her with that evidence. No one is saying that she was bleeding from her (supposedly) broken left ring finger, if that's what you're saying, so I'm not sure where you got that info.

[Monkey King]

And your opinion matters to me...WHY?

Nice to meet you~

This message was for Ron~

[Monkey King]

JM still has his rebuttal case to put on to refute her claims, present evidence, and then the all important closing argument. The judge may also allow him re-cross, after Nurmi's re-direct.

And he did, in his case, show photos of the bloody wall and the palm print, and later confronted her with that evidence when cross examining her. She, of course, claimed "foggy moment" and couldn't explain how it got there, but the evidence speaks for itself; the jury gets it. He also played her interview with Det. Flores during which he confronted her with that evidence. No one is saying that she was bleeding from her (supposedly) broken left ring finger, if that's what you're saying, so I'm not sure where you got that info.

I agree. JM proved his case.

Now it's up to that skeeve Nurmi to best serve his client by attempting to get the jury to give her live in prison instead of dragging the jurors through more of his open ended, lost in space, nose picking dialog.

[Ian 1]

The neck strap was found still sealed in a bag in the camera bag. That makes no sense to me as a camera owner. The neck strap is important so photographers don't drop the camera. Was it so new, that the strap wasn't assembled yet? Why the hurry to use it without the strap? It literally takes 2 seconds to attach to the camera. It amkes me wonder about the used duct tape found at the scene. Did she tape the camera to her hand?

Also, the pic where he is naked on the bed with his hand up with 2 fingers up like a weird peace sign? It looks like something is in his hand...the remote for the camera maybe?

The hand gesture in Travis last nude shot on the bed is a 'double bird.' Jodi said he flipped her one when she drove away in March 2008 when she finally left Mesa on her strategic retreat to Yreka. Travis probably didn't do it then but Jodi Arias couldn't resist incorporating it into her story so she transferred the detail from the bedroom on June 4, 2008, and placed it in the story about leaving. She does it all the time with many details. That's how she avoids telling the truth by not lying. I've said it before, Jodi Arias never tells the truth. She is either lying or she is not lying is the best you can say about her.