Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death

[ChelseyDawn]

Keep going. He talks about the sections of autolyzed brain tissue in the report. Autolyzed means liquid or soft.

Not to mention that he did the autopsy more than 4 and a half YEARS ago! The guy is allowed to correct himself and review his notes - it doesn't make him incompetent at all. He said that he has done hundreds and hundreds of autopsies - I'm sure he has done a hundred or more since Travis. Trying to remember something you did at your job nearly 5 years later...yikes! To us we think, "how could you forget something like that?!?" But the ME does these things on a regular basis. No wonder he needs to look back at his report as a reminder. Heck, I can't even remember which floor of my companies building I was on five years ago - was it the 8th or 9th??? So, I'd cut the guy some slack.

Zeebee - I'm gonna throw the word autolyzed out at random points this week just to seem smarter! "Oh hello husband-of-mine, tonight we are having autolyzed soup, following by some berries drizzled with autolyzed custard sauce." (Sounds less tasty when you consider the original use for the word...ughhhh).

[ChelseyDawn]

Someone here at MDS has this in their siggy. (Sory, can't remember who, or else I'd give credit.)

"You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
― Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Love this.

ETA: it is Monter that has this in their siggy. :)

Except I can't hear that quote without thinking of Romney in the presidential debate. "Mr. President, you're entitled to your own plane and your own (something), but you are not entitled to your own facts." Like Romney or not, that line made me laugh. I didn't know it was so similar to one that already existed! Thanks for sharing!

[Harlette]

Defense cross:
http://youtu.be/1tZKYBlfkxI?t=2h35m29s

Q: And we know that people who have had injuries to their brains um, depending on the section of the brain, they're not always incapacitated, isn't that true?
Dr. Horn: Uh, for the most part if you have a bullet pass through the brain, um you're not going to be standing, you're not going to be functioning. Um you're going to fall and like I said earlier on direct, it may not be immediately fatal. In fact it likely wasn't, passing through the frontal area of the brain, especially it's not as vital, they're all vital structures but it's not as vital as the brain stem or the back parts of the brain.
Q: Well just so we're clear you don't actually have any medical evidence of it passing through the brain, right?
Dr. Horn: It had to have passed through the brain
Q: You don't have any medical evidence of that do you?
Dr. Horn: I do, the skull is perforated where the brain is, so it had to have passed through the brain.
Q: Well
Dr. Horn: The brain is there
Q: But you have no idea, you have no medical evidence of how far or what part of the brain exactly it would of hit, right?
Dr. Horn: It would have passed through the right frontal lobe
Q: Uh um
Dr. Horn: I just don't have any evidence of hemorrhage now because of decomposition. But it had to have passed through the brain because the part of the skull that was injured. The brain in a young person especially, is flush against that structure
Q: Um uh
Dr. Horn: The brain occupies the entire skull, so to have a hole in the skull here and exit in here, it has to pass through the brain.
Q: Well the exits, there's no exit.
Dr. Horn: The exit from the skull cavity into the face.
Q: uh ha.. so but but what you're saying though, you have no idea how where that bullet might have hit, it could have just grazed the tip of the brain, right?
Dr. Horn: No, it had to have passed through the right frontal lobe of the brain. Based on where these holes in the skull are
Q: And you're sur
Dr. Horn: There's no way it could have avoided the brain.
Q: Ok, and you're sure of that?
Dr. Horn: Yes!
Q: Um ... what I was talking about earlier was that with brain injuries. I'm mean we've all heard the stories of people, the person who had the arrow stuck through went through his skull and hit his brain. Or the person who had um a, I don't know if it was an arrow or what but goes through the brain and these people are coming to the ER.
Dr. Horn: Right
Q: You've heard those stories, right?
Dr. Horn: Those are different.
Q: Ok.. but those are people who have had brain injuries, right?
Dr. Horn: Not with projectiles
Q: ok
Dr. Horn: With firearms, you don't just have an arrow or an object passing through the head, with the firearm you also have gas and you have an expancel cavity, that damages the brain as it goes through it. So you can shoot an arrow through the brain, its a much lower velocity projectile and will not cause a large temporary cavity to open up in the brain tissue, like a projectile would, like a firearm projectile would.
Q: So those don't cause as much damage as a bullet does?
Dr. Horn: That's right
Q: But you didn't see any damage
Dr. Horn: I couldn't
Q: Even in your slices right?
Dr. Horn: Right, I could not document the damage because of the decomposition

[ChelseyDawn]

Yes know all that. I don't think they would ever intentionally help her, but thank goodness what we heard from that misconducted hearing wasn't before the jury.
Not that the def won't find a way to use it in front of the jury if he can. That is when it could be unintentionally damaging.

You do know, Nurmi slapped her and Chris with another subpoena for this misconduct motion he has active. I think it will land where his other ones did, in the denied round file .
Half of me loved hearing Chris call Nurmi a liar right out in court! lmao But, the other half goes into worry, we don't want a mistrial because of an angry hot head. He has a right to be angry. I just worry it could end up another Unintentional mistake. Nurmi is desperate and the law gives too much rope to his kind imo.

Chris Hughes could call him any name he wants and it wouldn't cause a mistrial - especially since he is not in front of the jury. Mistrial is only when something is very damaging to the case to the degree that justice may be prevented. The mistrial their seeking for right now is for prosecutorial misconduct, so it is only if JM did something to damage the case. Also, in legal definitions it says that it has to be "intentional" or that he would have known better. So, they are definitely going for a long-shot because nothing I've heard so far has proven JM did anything wrong. I think they are hoping that JM told Sky that CreepyGus was on the witness list and that he wasn't supposed to share that info since it hadn't been made public yet. I agree that this mistrial seems like another shot in the dark and is most likely to get thrown out. But I guess their job is to try anyways...

[Harlette]

Redirect:
http://youtu.be/1tZKYBlfkxI?t=2h48m6s

Q: Sir, in terms of the sequencing of the wounds, do you remember having an interview with this individual, sitting here with the glassed, do you remember having an interview with him?
Dr. Horn: Vaguely, I do remember the defense interview
Q: You were interviewed regards to this case, right?
Dr. Horn: Yes
Q: And you have a copy of that interview, don't you?
Dr. Horn: I do
Q: And you were asked about the sequencing of these injuries, weren't you?
Dr. Horn: Yes
Objection leading
Sustained
Q: Alright did you talk to them about the sequencing of the injuries?
Dr. Horn: Yes
Q: And at anytime did you stop the interview and say no I don't want to talk to you about the sequencing of the injuries?
Dr. Horn: No
Q: And were you asked about the sequencing of the injuries?
Dr. Horn: Yes
Q: And what did you tell them during that interview that you had with them?
Dr. Horn: Uh that I felt that the gunshot wound may have been last but in any event um the gunshot wound and the wounds to the neck would have come after the defensive wounds of the hands.
Q: And is that what you told us today?
Dr. Horn: Yes

[Harlette]

http://youtu.be/1tZKYBlfkxI?t=2h56m59s

Q: The issue of the gunshot wound. Did the gunshot wound go to the.. go through the frontal lobe or not?
Dr. Horn: It did
Q: If it goes through the frontal lobe, what does the human body do when a gunshot goes through a frontal lobe?
Dr. Horn: Well there's a shock delivered to the entire brain as a projectile is passing through, so its not just like an arrow or a nail. You've also got expansing expanding gases, you've got a tumbling projectile, so generally you're going to have a shock situation, neurologic shock and those people are incapacitated.
Q: And that gunshot wound that we're talking about, did it go through the mouth or not?
Dr. Horn: It goes above the mouth, thats in the sinus structure, so bleeding out of the mouth is certainly possible.
Q: And it ended up in the left cheek
Dr. Horn: chee
Q: correct?
Dr. Horn: Yes
Q: The distance of the gunshot wound, you said it was in-determined, right?
Dr. Horn: yes
Q: Wha and that's based on the fact that you don't see any stippling there, right?
Dr. Horn: That's right
Q: And in-determined to you in this case, what's the, if its in-determined, I know what the word means, but how far away, can you give us any parameters as soever as to how far or how close the gunshot was?
Dr. Horn: Again I'm not a ballistics expert, but generally speaking from most firearms its going to be a minimum distance of a couple of feet, at least.
Q: Ok and this gunshot wound, was there hemorrhage, hemorrhaging that was associated with it on the path that it traveled?
Dr. Horn: Ah in the scalp and in the cheek area, there is some hemorrhage, there is no hemorrhage detected in the skull itself.
Q: And what does that mean to you, in terms of the sequencing, whether or not the person was alive or not alive, if there is no blood there?
Dr. Horn: If there's less blood, it may mean that the other injuries proceeded that and there was just less bleeding, because there was less blood to come out of the body.
Q: Could this person have been dead at the time that the gunshot wound was inflicted.
Dr. Horn: That's possible, yes
Q: And in terms of what an individual may have said or didn't say, you did indicate that your report does indicate that Detective Flores at the autopsy right?
Dr. Horn: Yes
Q: Does it have an MD at the end of his name, maybe I missed that?
Dr. Horn: No
Q: So in terms of, this individual Detective Flores what he may or may not have said, you have any idea where he gained his knowledge?
Dr. Horn: I don't, no
Q: But your knowledge is based on what you saw when, at the autopsy, your schooling, and anything else that was provided to you, right?
Dr. Horn: Yes
Q: I don't have anything else thank you

[zeebee]

The ME misspoke. He corrected himself when he looked at his report. I don't see it as a big deal. He was under a lot of pressure.

The part of the brain that was damaged is the part that the bullet went through. Not the entire brain. He was referring to the front part having damage.

This is the last I will comment on the ME and his testimony about the brain. I can't understand why it is difficult for others to understand what he said.

Exactly. Thank you. I am also done talking about this.

[ChelseyDawn]

Defense cross:
http://youtu.be/1tZKYBlfkxI?t=2h35m29s

Q: And we know that people who have had injuries to their brains um, depending on the section of the brain, they're not always incapacitated, isn't that true?
Dr. Horn: Uh, for the most part if you have a bullet pass through the brain, um you're not going to be standing, you're not going to be functioning. Um you're going to fall and like I said earlier on direct, it may not be immediately fatal. In fact it likely wasn't, passing through the frontal area of the brain, especially it's not as vital, they're all vital structures but it's not as vital as the brain stem or the back parts of the brain.
Q: Well just so we're clear you don't actually have any medical evidence of it passing through the brain, right?
Dr. Horn: It had to have passed through the brain
Q: You don't have any medical evidence of that do you?
Dr. Horn: I do, the skull is perforated where the brain is, so it had to have passed through the brain.
Q: Well
Dr. Horn: The brain is there
Q: But you have no idea, you have no medical evidence of how far or what part of the brain exactly it would of hit, right?
Dr. Horn: It would have passed through the right frontal lobe
Q: Uh um
Dr. Horn: I just don't have any evidence of hemorrhage now because of decomposition. But it had to have passed through the brain because the part of the skull that was injured. The brain in a young person especially, is flush against that structure
Q: Um uh
Dr. Horn: The brain occupies the entire skull, so to have a hole in the skull here and exit in here, it has to pass through the brain.
Q: Well the exits, there's no exit.
Dr. Horn: The exit from the skull cavity into the face.
Q: uh ha.. so but but what you're saying though, you have no idea how where that bullet might have hit, it could have just grazed the tip of the brain, right?
Dr. Horn: No, it had to have passed through the right frontal lobe of the brain. Based on where these holes in the skull are
Q: And you're sur
Dr. Horn: There's no way it could have avoided the brain.
Q: Ok, and you're sure of that?
Dr. Horn: Yes!
Q: Um ... what I was talking about earlier was that with brain injuries. I'm mean we've all heard the stories of people, the person who had the arrow stuck through went through his skull and hit his brain. Or the person who had um a, I don't know if it was an arrow or what but goes through the brain and these people are coming to the ER.
Dr. Horn: Right
Q: You've heard those stories, right?
Dr. Horn: Those are different.
Q: Ok.. but those are people who have had brain injuries, right?
Dr. Horn: Not with projectiles
Q: ok
Dr. Horn: With firearms, you don't just have an arrow or an object passing through the head, with the firearm you also have gas and you have an expancel cavity, that damages the brain as it goes through it. So you can shoot an arrow through the brain, its a much lower velocity projectile and will not cause a large temporary cavity to open up in the brain tissue, like a projectile would, like a firearm projectile would.
Q: So those don't cause as much damage as a bullet does?
Dr. Horn: That's right
Q: But you didn't see any damage
Dr. Horn: I couldn't
Q: Even in your slices right?
Dr. Horn: Right, I could not document the damage because of the decomposition

Sigh...WHY are we debating this? Does this change the facts or what happened in this case? Nope. My guess is, the jury is well over this, just like all the rest of us are. Let's find a new topic. Here are some options... Topic #1: "Sooooo, did you see the meat curtains on that psycho?!?!" Or how about Topic #2: "I'll take Douche Canoes for 100 Bob." Or topic number 3: "Men who would lie to protect psycho-killers".
AAAAAAAAND.....GO!!!

[ChelseyDawn]

Defense cross:
http://youtu.be/1tZKYBlfkxI?t=2h35m29s

Q: And we know that people who have had injuries to their brains um, depending on the section of the brain, they're not always incapacitated, isn't that true?
Dr. Horn: Uh, for the most part if you have a bullet pass through the brain, um you're not going to be standing, you're not going to be functioning. Um you're going to fall and like I said earlier on direct, it may not be immediately fatal. In fact it likely wasn't, passing through the frontal area of the brain, especially it's not as vital, they're all vital structures but it's not as vital as the brain stem or the back parts of the brain.
Q: Well just so we're clear you don't actually have any medical evidence of it passing through the brain, right?
Dr. Horn: It had to have passed through the brain
Q: You don't have any medical evidence of that do you?
Dr. Horn: I do, the skull is perforated where the brain is, so it had to have passed through the brain.
Q: Well
Dr. Horn: The brain is there
Q: But you have no idea, you have no medical evidence of how far or what part of the brain exactly it would of hit, right?
Dr. Horn: It would have passed through the right frontal lobe
Q: Uh um
Dr. Horn: I just don't have any evidence of hemorrhage now because of decomposition. But it had to have passed through the brain because the part of the skull that was injured. The brain in a young person especially, is flush against that structure
Q: Um uh
Dr. Horn: The brain occupies the entire skull, so to have a hole in the skull here and exit in here, it has to pass through the brain.
Q: Well the exits, there's no exit.
Dr. Horn: The exit from the skull cavity into the face.
Q: uh ha.. so but but what you're saying though, you have no idea how where that bullet might have hit, it could have just grazed the tip of the brain, right?
Dr. Horn: No, it had to have passed through the right frontal lobe of the brain. Based on where these holes in the skull are
Q: And you're sur
Dr. Horn: There's no way it could have avoided the brain.
Q: Ok, and you're sure of that?
Dr. Horn: Yes!
Q: Um ... what I was talking about earlier was that with brain injuries. I'm mean we've all heard the stories of people, the person who had the arrow stuck through went through his skull and hit his brain. Or the person who had um a, I don't know if it was an arrow or what but goes through the brain and these people are coming to the ER.
Dr. Horn: Right
Q: You've heard those stories, right?
Dr. Horn: Those are different.
Q: Ok.. but those are people who have had brain injuries, right?
Dr. Horn: Not with projectiles
Q: ok
Dr. Horn: With firearms, you don't just have an arrow or an object passing through the head, with the firearm you also have gas and you have an expancel cavity, that damages the brain as it goes through it. So you can shoot an arrow through the brain, its a much lower velocity projectile and will not cause a large temporary cavity to open up in the brain tissue, like a projectile would, like a firearm projectile would.
Q: So those don't cause as much damage as a bullet does?
Dr. Horn: That's right
Q: But you didn't see any damage
Dr. Horn: I couldn't
Q: Even in your slices right?
Dr. Horn: Right, I could not document the damage because of the decomposition

Sigh...WHY are we debating this? Does this change the facts or what happened in this case? Nope. My guess is, the jury is well over this, just like all the rest of us are. Let's find a new topic. Here are some options... Topic #1: "Sooooo, did you see the meat curtains on that psycho?!?!" Or how about Topic #2: "I'll take Douche Canoes for 100 Bob." Or topic number 3: "Men who would lie to protect psycho-killers".
AAAAAAAAND.....GO!!!

[zeebee]

Not to mention that he did the autopsy more than 4 and a half YEARS ago! The guy is allowed to correct himself and review his notes - it doesn't make him incompetent at all. He said that he has done hundreds and hundreds of autopsies - I'm sure he has done a hundred or more since Travis. Trying to remember something you did at your job nearly 5 years later...yikes! To us we think, "how could you forget something like that?!?" But the ME does these things on a regular basis. No wonder he needs to look back at his report as a reminder. Heck, I can't even remember which floor of my companies building I was on five years ago - was it the 8th or 9th??? So, I'd cut the guy some slack.

Zeebee - I'm gonna throw the word autolyzed out at random points this week just to seem smarter! "Oh hello husband-of-mine, tonight we are having autolyzed soup, following by some berries drizzled with autolyzed custard sauce." (Sounds less tasty when you consider the original use for the word...ughhhh).

A ha ha ha ha! You have to do this! (and report back what happens)

[Msmichie]

Exactly. Thank you. I am also done talking about this.

Don't blame you. Been watching that exchange for a bit and no matter what you say you will continue to be wrong. In the end I really don't think it's as big of a deal as wasthinking is trying to make it out to be. I think the ME was credible and I think the jury will understand that Travis is not the only autopsy he's done in the last 4 + years.

[ChelseyDawn]

Sigh...WHY are we debating this? Does this change the facts or what happened in this case? Nope. My guess is, the jury is well over this, just like all the rest of us are. Let's find a new topic. Here are some options... Topic #1: "Sooooo, did you see the meat curtains on that psycho?!?!" Or how about Topic #2: "I'll take Douche Canoes for 100 Bob." Or topic number 3: "Men who would lie to protect psycho-killers".
AAAAAAAAND.....GO!!!

Harlette - Just FYI, I'm not frustrated with you!!! I didn't realize you posted this to give corrected information. I'm just frustrated that we are debating this for no reason. You're freaking fabulous!!

[Justice11]

Chris Hughes could call him any name he wants and it wouldn't cause a mistrial - especially since he is not in front of the jury. Mistrial is only when something is very damaging to the case to the degree that justice may be prevented. The mistrial their seeking for right now is for prosecutorial misconduct, so it is only if JM did something to damage the case. Also, in legal definitions it says that it has to be "intentional" or that he would have known better. So, they are definitely going for a long-shot because nothing I've heard so far has proven JM did anything wrong. I think they are hoping that JM told Sky that CreepyGus was on the witness list and that he wasn't supposed to share that info since it hadn't been made public yet. I agree that this mistrial seems like another shot in the dark and is most likely to get thrown out. But I guess their job is to try anyways...

I think you are right.
However, Sky was not on any witness list. So, if Martinez called her to inquire about Searcy, there is no misconduct.

[ChelseyDawn]

A ha ha ha ha! You have to do this! (and report back what happens)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to zeebee again.

And yes, I for sure will. Actually I can see his expression now - the scrunched eyebrows, the cocked head, the confused look. Come to think of it, his "you're odd and I'm confused again" face is very similar to the faces my dogs make when I talk to them. Hmmmm maybe I should only talk to myself from now on - at least the voices in my head all understand me!!!

[Justice11]

Harlette - Just FYI, I'm not frustrated with you!!! I didn't realize you posted this to give corrected information. I'm just frustrated that we are debating this for no reason. You're freaking fabulous!!

AGREE!!!!

Thank you Harlette for posting the transcript. You friggen rock!
I don't have the patience that you have.

[ChelseyDawn]

I think you are right.
However, Sky was not on any witness list. So, if Martinez called her to inquire about Searcy, there is no misconduct.

Ummmmmm, Justice, I just might love you. Just a little...is that awkward? Ummmm....don't tell my husband k???

[Harlette]

Harlette - Just FYI, I'm not frustrated with you!!! I didn't realize you posted this to give corrected information. I'm just frustrated that we are debating this for no reason. You're freaking fabulous!!

ty!!! now i must eat a cookie - all that cutting and pasting wore me out!

[DiaDeLosMuertos]

I don't understand the arguing of semantics either. I forget what happened hours ago let alone 5 years ago.

I can't wait to see Monday. How many more days do you guys think we have until murder day? I now we still have the recording to hear too. I want to get the show on the road and stop taking baby steps down jodi lane.

[Harlette]

AGREE!!!!

Thank you Harlette for posting the transcript. You friggen rock!
I don't have the patience that you have.

[ChelseyDawn]

[wasthinking]

Look at that stack or court records from the hearing he is holding.

http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/...02/09/1905101/

[Justice11]

Ummmmmm, Justice, I just might love you. Just a little...is that awkward? Ummmm....don't tell my husband k???

Love you right back!!

[Justice11]

I don't understand the arguing of semantics either. I forget what happened hours ago let alone 5 years ago.

I can't wait to see Monday. How many more days do you guys think we have until murder day? I now we still have the recording to hear too. I want to get the show on the road and stop taking baby steps down jodi lane.

I have a bad feeling Wurmi is going to take alllll next week. I think he will time it so that he finishes on Thursday, with Jodi weeping on the stand, hoping the jury will feel sorry for her over the following three days.

I look forward to the cross by Martinez. Duh, we are all excited about that.

But, what really gets me excited is thinking about the closing argument that Martinez will give! I bet he knocks everyone's socks off!!!!

[Shahoolie11]

RANDOM ALERT: Can I just say I 'LOL' every time I see the key words associated with this thread.....mainly "Saucer-Sized Nipples". LMAO!!!!!

[DiaDeLosMuertos]

I hope so. I hope he has some bombs to drop! One where the world (ok mds) all goes "WHOA!!" At the same time.