Redundant?Originally Posted by hamdinger125
Redundant?
I just think it's a shame that parent's of kids like Kendrick Johnson and Trayvon Martin have to resort to protesting and stirring up the media just to get a proper investigation into the death of their children. It doesn't matter if it's in Georgia, Florida or any state. A parent should not have to put their dead child's face on a poster with Emmett Till just to get the sheriff's and school to tell them what they know about the strange death of their boy. This new investigation may not reveal any new evidence of foul play in Kendrick's death but I sure hope it will prompt changes in the way the sheriff's office and school officials handle to any future tragedies, especially in the way they respond to the grieving families.
arlen, texas.
Yeah, I know.
Touching the gun with their bare hands. Those cops ain't right.
(sorry; off-topic. I just love King of the Hill)
I think they said there were four cameras in the gym in the CNN interview but none of them are angled to show the corner where the wrestling mats were. CNN joined in the lawsuit to have the tapes released. I did think it was odd how the sheriff was friendly and welcoming to their reporter until he found out they were there to ask him questions about Kendrick Johnson and he said they had to leave, he was not going to discuss that. When the reporter asked him why, the sheriff just told him because I don't want to! That small interaction did lead me to believe that they in some way screwed up in the investigation and he probably knows it. imo
i didn't see it either until your post, i had to go back and look again.
Uggh. This case is a complete inter-departmental shitfight. Hope this wasn't posted already. Will replace with something else if it has ...
http://m.cbsnews.com/fullstory.rbml?...&videofeed=999
Kendrick Johnson Update: Conflicting accounts of what happened to Ga. teen's organs after gym-mat death November 04, 2013 by CBNews.com
Kendrick Johnson / CBS Atlanta Updated 2:20 p.m. EST (CBS) - On January 11, 2013, 17-year-old Kendrick Johnson was found dead inside a rolled-up wrestling mat in his Valdosta, Ga. high school gym. Authorities called his death a freak accident, saying he fell head-first into an upright mat and became trapped. The case was closed, but Johnson's family insists he was killed. A federal prosecutor has announced he is reopening the case. But the mystery of how Johnson died is only one part of this bizarre story.
When a judge agreed to exhume Johnson's body over the summer, a private pathologist not only determined he died of blunt force trauma to his neck, but also that his organs were missing and his body had been stuffed with newspaper. How and why did this happen? Who is responsible? And could the strange state of the body affect further investigation of Johnson's death? It turns out, the answers to these questions are far from clear.
Despite some media reports that only two entities had custody of Kendrick's body after his death, CBS News' Crimesider has confirmed at least four entities - the Valdosta-Lowndes Regional Crime Laboratory, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI), a third-party transport company, and the Harrington Funeral Home - handled the teen's body.
On Jan. 11, the day the body was found, Lowndes County Coroner Bill Watson contacted Steve Owens from Owens Transport Company to conduct the removal and transport of Johnson's body to the Valdosta-Lowndes Regional Crime Laboratory, according to recently unsealed files pertaining to the investigation. The body would be stored in a cooler there until the GBI was ready to receive it to conduct the autopsy.
Three days later, on Jan. 14, Johnson's body was released again to Steve Owens for transport to the GBI in Macon, Ga., for the autopsy. Sherry Lang, a spokesperson for the GBI, told Crimesider that after the autopsy was conducted, during which the organs were removed, the organs were returned to the body. "When the body left the GBI, it had the organs with it," Lang said.
The GBI released the body to Owens Transport, which then transported the body directly to the funeral home, according to William Carter, the Lowndes County Deputy Coroner. Crimesider reached out to Steve Owens, of Owens Transport, and left several messages which were not returned. Crimesider also reached out to the Harrington Funeral Home, which directed all questions regarding the case to their attorney, Roy Copeland.
In a statement in response to "several inquiries" about the case, Copeland wrote that when the funeral home received the body, the organs had been removed. The statement cites a quote from Lowndes County Coroner Bill Watson who says: "In this case, the Viscera, which is the internal organs, were not sent back with the body for disposition. It was confirmed by Mr. Bryan, (a death investigator with the crime lab), who was present at the autopsy, that the viscera were disposed of due to decomposition of the same.'"
When contacted by Crimesider on Friday, Lowndes County Coroner Bill Watson first claimed he has no idea what happened to Johnson's organs. "I don't know anything about that," Watson said. "What difference does it make? What does it matter to the case?" When pressed, Watson confirmed that he stands by his statement to the funeral home that Rodney Bryan, a death investigator with the GBI, told him via telephone that the viscera were disposed of during the autopsy due to decomposition.
Crimesider reached Rodney Bryan via telephone Monday and attempted to question him about the alleged disposal of Johnson's organs, but he hung up on us. Dr. Gregory Schmunk, the president of the National Association of Medical Examiners and chief medical examiner for Polk County in Des Moines, Iowa, told Crimesider he "very much doubts" the organs were disposed of during the autopsy.
"It's very unusual for the medical examiner to have done that," Schmunk said. "I have spoken with people involved [in the case] and I really don't think this happened at the medical examiner's office." Sherry Lang, spokesperson for the GBI, told Crimesider on Monday that Watson's "accounting of the conversation with Mr. Bryan is inaccurate and incorrect." She said Bryan was talking about "vitrious," fluid of the eye, and not "viscera," internal organs.
The written statement from Roy Copeland, on behalf of the funeral home, went on to justify the business's use of newspaper to stuff the body, saying it is in conformity with burial protocol. Despite Copeland's assertion, Sharon Gee, Vice-President of the American Society of Embalmers says, stuffing a body with newspaper is "not common practice at all."Gee said she has never heard of newspaper being used for that purpose.
Complete coverage of the Kendrick Johnson case on Crimesider
Last edited by blighted star; 11-04-2013 at 11:38 PM.
It's such a shame that they are all in CYA mode right now. It seems like everybody has lawyered up.at least four entities - the Valdosta-Lowndes Regional Crime Laboratory, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI), a third-party transport company, and the Harrington Funeral Home - handled the teen's body.
Maybe newspapers being stuffed into a dead body are common in the "death" community, but as a parent....geez, that's one heartbreak on top of a heartbreak. Can you just imagine the pain of losing your child, burying him, only to have his body dug up and find it was stuffed with newspapers?
Another horrifying thought- just the fact that official people that WORK for the people can't tell you what in the hell happened to his organs. Where did they go? If you are throwing away somebody's organs...shouldn't you at least have some type of record for that?
From everything I've read- I still do not think Kendrick was murdered. I think it was some crazy accident. I really do understand why the parents are asking for a reinvestigation, tho. All these officials sound like a bunch of idiots. At the very least- not very good at keeping/recording records.
This was not in response to you and your name was not mentioned. Why so defensive?
Because you've gotten snotty with me for mentioning it in other threads, dumbass.This was not in response to you and your name was not mentioned. Why so defensive?
But you like to forget things a lot, so...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...llied-boy.html
EXCLUSIVE - Gym mat boy's father points finger at football teammate: Claims son who mysteriously died was 'bullied by another teen'
(Nov. 4, 2013) The family of the promising black teenager who was mysteriously found dead stuffed in a wrestling mat in a high school gym today claims his son was bullied by another boy after they had a fight on a school bus.
Kenneth Johnson told MailOnline that he's convinced that the death of his 17-year-old son Kendrick Johnson on January 11 was "planned."
The shocking death of Kendrick in Lowndes County, Georgia was initially ruled accidental by the local sheriff's office. But last Thursday - more than six months after his death and following huge pressure from the family and their supporters - U.S. Attorney for Middle Georgia Michael Moore agreed to hold a formal review of the case.
He said if he uncovers sufficient evidence to warrant a criminal civil rights investigation into the death he will ask the FBI to conduct it.
"See, so much of this is the sheriff and the good ol' boy system," Mr Johnson said. "But they ran up on the wrong family. They can?t put no fear in us and I've never been afraid of a man in my life."
The 17-year-old's body was found stuck in an upright mat that had been rolled up and propped upright behind bleachers in the school gym the morning after his parents had reported him missing.
The sheriff has said he believes Johnson became trapped trying to retrieve a shoe that fell into the center of the mat.
A Georgia Bureau of Investigation medical examiner concluded that he died from positional asphyxia, meaning his body got stuck in a position in which he couldn't breathe.
Johnson's family had his body exhumed over the summer so they could get a second opinion from a private pathologist.
Dr. William R. Anderson issued a report in August saying he detected hemorrhaging on the right side of Johnson's neck. He concluded the teenager died from blunt force trauma near his carotid artery and that the fatal blow appeared to be non-accidental.
Spurred on by last week's developments - just a month after a civil rights investigation into the death was turned down by the Justice Department - Mr Johnson said: "Everyone who is involved in my son's killing, everyone who is involved in the cover-up, they need to go to prison."
Kendrick's death has attracted national headlines because of the bizarre manner in which he was was found dead and the troubling questions raised by the family about the investigation.
Now MailOnline can reveal that Kendrick was involved in an incident with a football team mate in 2011 which involved the police.
Police have said they have looked into the incident in connection with Kendrick's death and have cleared the individual of any involvement.
But the family hope the U.S. Attorney will look again at the confrontation when reviewing the case.
Kendrick was a freshman player when he was traveling home with a defeated varsity team on the same bus.
On the back of the bus one of the senior players on the team allegedly picked a fight with Kendrick, known as "K.J." to his friends. The player, who MailOnline is not naming, was trading barbs with Johnson about each other's mothers - when the younger freshmen seemed to outwit the varsity player.
"They start saying mama jokes and my son got the best of him with the jokes and he came at him and tried to put him in a headlock, and my son got away from him and he put it to him real good," said Mr Johnson.
According to one of Kendrick's best friends the attack was unprovoked. "This kid came out of nowhere," Rickey Giddens, 17, told MailOnline about the "real big" unidentified boy.
"The kid just wanted to fight Kendrick and he was like 'I don't know you, so why you want to fight me for?' It shocked me."
"My son was the first one to whoop him," said Mr Johnson, who is being represented by Benjamin Crump, the civil rights attorney who became a national name as the lawyer for Trayvon Martin's family.
"He whooped him. My son stood his ground and stopped him. But this guy here is a bully."
After the two were separated, the elder student was turned over to his parents while Kendrick was forced to ride home in a police cruiser.
"They were already separated because the other kid went with his parents," Mr Johnson said. "So why couldn?t Kendrick ride in the back of the bus?"
According to Kendrick's family, the teenager decided to quit the team after the incident.
Lt. Stryde Jones of the Lowndes County Sheriff?s Department told MailOnline that Johnson did ride home in the front of the police cruiser with the team-assigned deputy.
He added that the police viewed it only as a "shoving match" that didn't require any further action from them but the school did suspend each student for five days.
Lt. Jones told MailOnline that the police are also aware of the family's claims that Kendrick's death was somehow linked to the humiliation of the older boy.
"We questioned every name that was presented to us," Lt. Jones said, pointing to the four month-long investigation which included "many hours of police work, forensics and joint efforts by multiple agencies."
Lt. Jones acknowledged that the department did make attempts to question the boy in the wake of Johnson's death.
"We tried to interview them but he preferred through his parents not to make a statement," he told MailOnline. "That's when we verified attendance records and we checked the video. We determined that he was not involved in the incident."
And he wasn't spotted on video surveillance footage shot at the gym at the time when Kendrick was last seen.
"The video has been looked at and he was not around the gym ... Every person that was identified to use we located and interviewed."
According to Mr Johnson, the alleged bully's father has ties to law enforcement.
Lt. Jones acknowledged the father of the boy in question is an official but not with the sheriff's department. "He's not connected to local law enforcement." He wouldn't confirm if the father was with the FBI and there's been no suggestion he's been involved in the case or the investigation.
Lt. Jones said the sheriff?s department would "welcome" any information that would pinpoint foul play.
But he claims the findings in the evidence point to a tragic accident.
"We worked with reliable information but not one witness that we talked to indicated any foul play," he said. "There were many rumors, speculation and innuendo but nothing we could be able to substantiate."
When a MailOnline reporter approached Lowndes High School Vikings football coach Randy MacPherson about the initial scuffle, which was apparently caught on a video recording, he referred comments to the Board of Education.
"Who told you about a scuffle," he said outside his home in the gated community a few miles from the high school. "You're going to have to talk to the superintendent."
The Lowndes County Board of Education refused to discuss anything regarding Kendrick's case.
Kendrick's mother Jacquelyn Johnson, a bus driver for the Lowndes County School system for 11 years, has spent the months since her son's death protesting in front of Voldasta courthouse, holding a handmaid sign with scotch-taped pictures of her son, pleading for justice.
Heartbroken, she speaks of her son?s dreams of taking care of his family by earning a scholarship to play for the University of Florida. "He had big dreams," she said. "He wanted to graduate and play for the Gators. We knew he was going to make it.
"He used to come and tell us, 'You all ain't going to have to worry about working no more. I'm going to take care of you.' He had heart."
Kendrick's friend Rickey Giddens said Kendrick was extremely shy and quite possibly the last person who would invite confrontation. "It stunned all of us. Like 'why him?' He's one of the quietest; a lot of people may not like us but we kept asking, 'why him?'
He said Kendrick was also a top athlete among his peers. "He was one of the best," Giddens said. "He was so good in football that the coaches were afraid he would hurt someone because he hit so hard."
As far back as 8th grade, Kendrick's power inflicted a concussion against another player, he said.
"All he cared about was math and football, that was K.J.'s world," Giddens said.
Continued ...
The first autopsy conducted by the county coroner seemed to dismiss any foul play with "no significant injuries identified."
In June the family exhumed Johnson's body and hired an independent pathologist to see if their doubts were merited.
Compounding the family's grief was the grisly discovery that the teenager's organs had been removed, destroyed and replaced with newspaper.
"That was worse than the first funeral," Kendrick's mother Jacquelyn said. "It was like K.J. died all over again."
An independent autopsy was performed by Dr. William Anderson whose report discovered "findings not consistent with positional asphyxia" and that there was "unexplained, apparent non-accidental blunt force trauma" to Johnson?s right neck.
An extremely disturbing picture of Kendrick's bloated and bloodied face after his death have fueled cries of injustice.
Kendrick was discovered when two students noticed his socked feet popping out of one of the vertically stowed wrestling mats where students would stash clothes and personal items to avoid paying locker fees.
The mats themselves stand six-foot tall and Kendrick Johnson was 5-feet-10 - this fact alone has been troubling for the boy's parents and friends to understand.
"How in a room full of people could he go and get his shoes but gets stuck and nobody sees him until the next day?" Mrs Johnson said. "Kendrick's 5-foot-10 and you couldn't have gotten stuck because if his arms were suspended going into the mat to reach for the shoes that would mean the rest of his body would be sticking up.
"He would come out in the [other] end. It's crazy what they're saying."
Kendrick's father has also been very vocal as to how Kendrick, who's shoulders measure 19 inches across, could have fit in the mat when the opening is usually 14-and-a half inches across.
Motion-sensored surveillance footage released last week shows Kendrick walking through the corridor of Lowndes High School?s old gym at around 1 pm on January 10 along with at least one other student who enters the gym ahead of Kendrick.
It is only partial footage, however, and the parents are still waiting for the release of even more footage - about 1,900 hours - going back to when Kendrick went missing.
That evening basketball teams and the school?s color guard were both captured on camera practicing. That evening Kendrick's family filed a missing person's report.
"I was out of town to pick up a truck, an 18-wheeler, and Kendrick was excited to see the truck," Said Mr Johnson.
On his way home from Pennsylvania, Mr Johnson said he received a call from his wife at 9.30pm asking him "Have you heard form Kendrick?"
"I said, 'No I ain't heard from him,'"
The boy's mother called the school and Kendrick?s friends to determine if Kendrick was present at a basketball game and nobody knew where he was.
"At this point she tells me, "call the police," because Kendrick has never done this in his whole life.
"Kendrick always calls; he always lets someone know where he is. We ain't never had a problem."
Mrs Johnson said: "If he don't call me he's going to call his sister or his brother. He knew he'd be in trouble if he didn't."
It wasn't until January 11 that the gruesome discovery of Kendrick's body was made at 10.30am.
Shoes found near the body were splattered with red, but the authorities said this wasn't blood and didn't collect them as evidence.
Responding cops cordoned off the gym investigators found two specks of blood.
"Nothing was done with K.J's body," Lt. Stryde Jones told MailOnline. "He wasn?t moved. He wasn't examined until the coroner arrived."
According to the Lt. Jones, the students were questioned and the following morning's physical education class was as well. Two blood samples were discovered and tagged at the scene.
While one of them turned out to be a bloody tissue discarded in a bathroom nearby, another was found on a wall nearby Kendrick's body and the testing was inconclusive.
"The forensic testing doesn't support a fight," Lt. Jones said. "Blood was found in the bathroom and the other was from an unknown source."
Pressed about whether that blood sample could return a hit back to another student who could have valuable information about Kendrick's death, Lt. Jones said they "still have the DNA sample" but the chances of determining who it belongs to was slim. "It's a school of 3,000," he said.
Whatever the truth is that can explain Kendrick's most mysterious of deaths, everyone agrees that the rampant speculation needs to be put to rest - not least the under fire Sheriff's office.
"There's no truth to any cover-up," Lt Jones told MailOnline. "You'd have to have the GBI, the Voldasta Crime Lab, the Medical Examiner all collaborating to cover this up. I think it's impossible for that to occur.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...llied-boy.html
Wait wait wait....a fight for reals started over "yo mama" jokes?! Holy shit
FINALLY! I do feel sorry for this kid that's getting blamed, though, but at least the family is actually talking about a murderer now.
So, dad says KJ put a whooping on the bully on the bus and he was taught to fight (I read that in an article up thread). KJ's best friend said he was too shy to fight. The football coaches were worried he was going to hurt someone from his tackles. He caused an injury to a football player in jr high.
But someone stuffed him in a mat.
Also, are we to believe this alleged perp decided the best way to get rid of KJ was to show up at a school he no longer attends, with thousands of students and cameras everywhere, cross his fingers that K would be alone, and then quickly kill him during a tiny window of time before students started filling up the gym? Riiiight.
Oh yeah! I forgot the older kid would have graduated as he was a senior when the bus fight occurred. Thanks for reminding me of that.
Unnnnlessss, the father is alluding to the older kid having someone do it for him. The father did say it was "planned."
It was midgets. Racist midgets from Virginia.
Wait....I thought Ninja wore all black guys?
http://m.cbsnews.com/fullstory.rbml?...&videofeed=999
Kendrick Johnson Update: Ga. Sec. of State investigating funeral home that handled teen's remains after gym-mat death November 05, 2013 by CBNews.com
Kendrick Johnson / CBS Atlanta Updated 1:54 p.m. EST
(CBS) - The Georgia Secretary of State is investigating the funeral home that handled the remains of a Georgia teen found dead inside a rolled-up wrestling mat in his high school gym, according to a spokesperson for Secretary of State Brian Kemp. Cody Whitlock said the office of the Secretary of State could not comment further due to its ongoing investigation into the Harrington Funeral Home in Valdosta, Ga. It is unclear when the probe began. "It's an administrative agency. When matters are raised concerning any industry that they regulate, they clearly have an obligation to investigate," Roy Copeland, the attorney for the funeral home, told Crimesider Tuesday when contacted for a comment.
"I think they're just doing their job," Copeland said. The attorney went on to say he learned of the investigation "two or three weeks ago."
Authorities initially called Kendrick Johnson's death a freak accident, saying he fell head-first into an upright gym mat and became trapped. The case was closed, but Johnson's family insisted he was killed. When a judge agreed to exhume Johnson's body over the summer, a private pathologist not only determined he died of blunt force trauma to the neck, but also that his organs were missing and his body had been stuffed with newspaper. How and why this happened is unclear, and a federal prosecutor announced last week that he is reopening the case. Despite some media reports that only two entities had custody of Kendrick's body after his death, Crimesider has confirmed at least four entities - the Valdosta-Lowndes Regional Crime Laboratory, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI), a third-party transport company, and the Harrington Funeral Home - handled the teen's body. Crimesider reached three of these entities and received some conflicting accounts. The company that transported Johnson's body did not respond to multiple requests for an interview.
On Friday, Harrington Funeral Home directed us to their attorney, Roy Copeland, who referred us to a previously released statement on the case. In it, Copeland wrote that when the funeral home received Johnson's body, the organs had already been removed. The statement quotes Lowndes County Coroner Bill Watson as saying: "In this case, the Viscera, which is the internal organs, were not sent back with the body for disposition. It was confirmed by Mr. Bryan, (a death investigator with the crime lab), who was present at the autopsy, that the viscera were disposed of due to decomposition of the same.'" When contacted by Crimesider on Friday, coroner Watson first said he has no idea what happened to Johnson's organs. "I don't know anything about that," Watson said. "What difference does it make? What does it matter to the case?" When pressed, Watson confirmed that he informed the funeral home that Rodney Bryan, a death investigator with the GBI, told him via telephone that the viscera were disposed of during the autopsy due to decomposition. Crimesider reached Rodney Bryan via telephone Monday and attempted to question him about the alleged disposal of Johnson's organs; he hung up on us. Sherry Lang, spokesperson for the GBI, told Crimesider on Monday that Watson's "accounting of the conversation with Mr. Bryan is inaccurate and incorrect." She said Bryan was talking about "vitreous" fluid of the eye, and not "viscera," internal organs. Lang said that in "every single autopsy [conducted at the GBI], the internal organs are returned to the body cavity."
Asked on Tuesday about the GBI's explanation, funeral home attorney Roy Copeland told Crimesider "not only did the coroner" [hear Mr. Ryan say 'viscera']..."Mr. Harrington was on that call as well." In addition to addressing the issue of the deceased's organs, Copeland's earlier written statement on behalf of Harrington Funeral Home justifies its use of newspaper to stuff Johnson's body, saying it is in conformity with burial protocol. "It has been suggested that the material used by Mr. Harrington was neither proper, respectable or in conformity with burial protocol," the statement reads. "For those who have drawn such conclusions, it is apparent they have not taken an opportunity to review the means and manner in which decomposed bodies must be prepared for burial." Crimesider contacted four experts in an effort to understand the "means and manner" in which decomposed bodies are prepared for burial, all of whom said it is not common for newspaper to be used during embalming. Among them, Sharon Gee, Vice-President of the American Society of Embalmers (ASE), said that stuffing a body with newspaper is "not common practice at all." She said she has never heard of newspaper being used for that purpose. Melissa Johnson Williams, Executive Director of the ASE, told Crimesider, "Generally speaking, we try and use cotton [to stuff the body if needed]." She said "it would not be standard practice" to stuff a body cavity with newspaper.
Complete coverage of the Kendrick Johnson case on Crimesider
Lol at "finally". Your complaint is the complete opposite of the Valdosta local's complaintsThe most common gripe from those using such words as "knee grow" is that Kendrick's Dad has been naming names & making accusations of murder from day one & he should SHUT THE FUCK UP (to put it more politely than the racially affronted posters).
I notice it's a UK publication running the first mention of the bullying in the media?? We don't really think Mr Johnson went all this time, & sat in the heat through all that protesting without ever attempting to share these details with local media? If anyone does think that? Don't. The story in that article is pretty much what I read on topix & have been fruitlessly searching for over the last few days. It's been circulating for a long time & according to locals it's repeated at every opportunity - they know because they're near the rallies or know someone who was & it gets around town on the grapevine. We don't hear it til someone finds it on topix or it's published by the media. For some reason, in this case, that didn't happen until overseas media picked up the story.
& before I'm mistaken for someone who's firmly in the "all the evidence points to murder" camp, the red stuff on those grey/brown?? sneakers really looks like paint to me (- although there's also a finer spray/mark that looks iffier, which is exactly why they should've bagged everything, it's not like they found him in a squat with 4ft of garbage on the floors)
But then again ...
Ignore the autopsies, ignore the stupid stories about the sheriff'son etcetc, ignore all of it & focus on this -
We still haven't had an explanation for the non-saturated shoe. That one detail, far more than any autopsy finding, is going to be the biggest problem LE has. The pathology sites I posted earlier (who had extensive experience with darker skin pigment) made it pretty clear that differentiating between post-mortem staining/lividity & peri-mortem bruising is difficult in all patients, but moreso in those with darker skin. In some instances it's not possible to tell the difference. There is research into previously unknown changes that are present only in bruising, but it's possible there'll never be a real answer in this case.
The shoes are a different matter though.
If there was no body fluid-saturated shoe at the scene, the scenario LE propose is impossible - you guys do get that don't you?
Even if Kendrick had the tiny feet of an exceptionally delicate little girl, his shoes could not have been beneath him in a space with a 14.5 inch diameter without being saturated by blood, body fluids & vomit. Even if the shoe/s magically remained pristine within the confined space beneath Kendrick & the 14.5 inch diameter floor inside the mat, (& they couldn't, so this is hypothetical,), they should've had splashes of fluids hit them when the mat was moved & "blood, vomit & dreadlocks splashed out".
Given the description of what happened when the mat was moved, we could even expect to see "wipe marks" if his saturated dreadlocks came into contact with the shoe/s as everything fell out. It beggars belief that the shoe in the pic came through unscathed not once, but twice (1.sitting under KJ for hours 2. when the mat was moved & everything splashed) & it destoys the entire scenario.
- if it's clean, it wasn't beneath him.
- if it wasn't beneath him, he can't have been reaching for it.
- if he wasn't reaching for it he had no reason to be in the mat voluntarily.
The rest of the story doesn't swing me either way, but this has got me stuck. I know there's quite a few people who are adamant LE got it right & I'm happy to join you if this clean shoe can be explained. So far, as far as I can see, the only way that shoe doesn't destroy the LE scenario is if there's a photo of the other shoe from that pair & it is saturated??
Last edited by blighted star; 11-05-2013 at 11:09 PM.
Sorry guys, one more question ...
All the vids in the gym, the pix of the mats, they all show polished floor right up to each wall. So what's with the dirty old concrete floors in these shoe & clothing pix? In the pic of the unidentified shoe, the floor looks recently washed down too (could be old concrete though)??
Is it normal for one corner to be concrete in the gym area? I thought that was usually in change rooms, locker rooms, showers etc? All the areas I can find in pics seem to show the polished wood is flush with the wall?
(but obviously my experience of U.S school gyms is somewhat limited)
ETA huh? It's like a spot the difference game
I scoffed at a comment I saw claiming the old gym was torn down soon after - maybe it was given a new floor & the walls were painted over? Maybe it's simply a different corner? I is conFUSED!!!
Last edited by blighted star; 08-14-2018 at 01:43 AM. Reason: Seriously annoying use of emojis
Different corners
If it hadn't been for Cotton-Eye Joe
I'd been married long time ago
Lol at "finally". Your complaint is the complete opposite of the Valdosta local's complaints
I notice it's a UK publication running the first mention of the bullying in the media?? We don't really think Mr Johnson went all this time, & sat in the heat through all that protesting without ever attempting to share these details with local media? If anyone does think that? Don't. The story in that article is pretty much what I read on topix & have been fruitlessly searching for over the last few days. It's been circulating for a long time & according to locals it's repeated at every opportunity - they know because they're near the rallies or know someone who was & it gets around town on the grapevine. We don't hear it til someone finds it on topix or it's published by the media. For some reason, in this case, that didn't happen until overseas media picked up the story.
& before I'm mistaken for someone who's firmly in the "all the evidence points to murder" camp, the red stuff on those grey/brown?? sneakers really looks like paint to me (- although there's also a finer spray/mark that looks iffier, which is exactly why they should've bagged everything, it's not like they found him in a squat with 4ft of garbage on the floors)
But then again ...
Ignore the autopsies, ignore the stupid stories about the sheriff'son etcetc, ignore all of it & focus on this -
We still haven't had an explanation for the non-saturated shoe. That one detail, far more than any autopsy finding, is going to be the biggest problem LE has. The pathology sites I posted earlier (who had extensive experience with darker skin pigment) made it pretty clear that differentiating between post-mortem staining/lividity & peri-mortem bruising is difficult in all patients, but moreso in those with darker skin. In some instances it's not possible to tell the difference. There is research into previously unknown changes that are present only in bruising, but it's possible there'll never be a real answer in this case.
The shoes are a different matter though.
If there was no body fluid-saturated shoe at the scene, the scenario LE propose is impossible - you guys do get that don't you?
Even if Kendrick had the tiny feet of an exceptionally delicate little girl, his shoes could not have been beneath him in a space with a 14.5 inch diameter without being saturated by blood, body fluids & vomit. Even if the shoe/s magically remained pristine within the confined space beneath Kendrick & the 14.5 inch diameter floor inside the mat, (& they couldn't, so this is hypothetical,), they should've had splashes of fluids hit them when the mat was moved & "blood, vomit & dreadlocks splashed out".
Given the description of what happened when the mat was moved, we could even expect to see "wipe marks" if his saturated dreadlocks came into contact with the shoe/s as everything fell out. It beggars belief that the shoe in the pic came through unscathed not once, but twice (1.sitting under KJ for hours 2. when the mat was moved & everything splashed) & it destoys the entire scenario.
- if it's clean, it wasn't beneath him.
- if it wasn't beneath him, he can't have been reaching for it.
- if he wasn't reaching for it he had no reason to be in the mat voluntarily.
The rest of the story doesn't swing me either way, but this has got me stuck. I know there's quite a few people who are adamant LE got it right & I'm happy to join you if this clean shoe can be explained. So far, as far as I can see, the only way that shoe doesn't destroy the LE scenario is if there's a photo of the other shoe from that pair & it is saturated??
Local gossip and people posting on a Topix forum is far from being on CNN and national newspapers and other media outlets talking about a murderer. From the sounds of it, from what I'm gathering from your post, is he has named several people?
I didn't see your post regarding the difference between "post-mortem staining/lividity & peri-mortem bruising," but I would like to read it. I mentioned how difficult it is to differentiate several pages back. There is only a handful of forensic pathologists, in the U.S., that are considered experts in determining the difference. The findings are in the tissue under the skin. (not saying you said otherwise, just expanding on your comment)
One thing I have kept in mind is the scene was compromised from the get go. When KJ was found. We don't know what the students and teaching staff touched or moved. We don't have pictures of where things were when he was found, before people started touching things.
The shoe could have been by his body the whole time and fell when he was moved. I'm not saying that is what happened, I'm saying it is a possibility. He reached down for the shoe and placed it between his body and the mat. I don't know.
I can't remember what the placement was of both his arms. Were both arms found above his head?
There are things about the case that I question, but none of the things that have me scratching my head make me question whether it is murder vs. cover up vs. accident.
I came upon this thread trying to understand better what the circumstances were. Based on other sites, media, etc I was leaning strongly towards foul play. After reading this thread to this point, I'm leaning more towards accident.Lol at "finally". Your complaint is the complete opposite of the Valdosta local's complaints
I notice it's a UK publication running the first mention of the bullying in the media?? We don't really think Mr Johnson went all this time, & sat in the heat through all that protesting without ever attempting to share these details with local media? If anyone does think that? Don't. The story in that article is pretty much what I read on topix & have been fruitlessly searching for over the last few days. It's been circulating for a long time & according to locals it's repeated at every opportunity - they know because they're near the rallies or know someone who was & it gets around town on the grapevine. We don't hear it til someone finds it on topix or it's published by the media. For some reason, in this case, that didn't happen until overseas media picked up the story.
& before I'm mistaken for someone who's firmly in the "all the evidence points to murder" camp, the red stuff on those grey/brown?? sneakers really looks like paint to me (- although there's also a finer spray/mark that looks iffier, which is exactly why they should've bagged everything, it's not like they found him in a squat with 4ft of garbage on the floors)
But then again ...
Ignore the autopsies, ignore the stupid stories about the sheriff'son etcetc, ignore all of it & focus on this -
We still haven't had an explanation for the non-saturated shoe. That one detail, far more than any autopsy finding, is going to be the biggest problem LE has. The pathology sites I posted earlier (who had extensive experience with darker skin pigment) made it pretty clear that differentiating between post-mortem staining/lividity & peri-mortem bruising is difficult in all patients, but moreso in those with darker skin. In some instances it's not possible to tell the difference. There is research into previously unknown changes that are present only in bruising, but it's possible there'll never be a real answer in this case.
The shoes are a different matter though.
If there was no body fluid-saturated shoe at the scene, the scenario LE propose is impossible - you guys do get that don't you?
Even if Kendrick had the tiny feet of an exceptionally delicate little girl, his shoes could not have been beneath him in a space with a 14.5 inch diameter without being saturated by blood, body fluids & vomit. Even if the shoe/s magically remained pristine within the confined space beneath Kendrick & the 14.5 inch diameter floor inside the mat, (& they couldn't, so this is hypothetical,), they should've had splashes of fluids hit them when the mat was moved & "blood, vomit & dreadlocks splashed out".
Given the description of what happened when the mat was moved, we could even expect to see "wipe marks" if his saturated dreadlocks came into contact with the shoe/s as everything fell out. It beggars belief that the shoe in the pic came through unscathed not once, but twice (1.sitting under KJ for hours 2. when the mat was moved & everything splashed) & it destoys the entire scenario.
- if it's clean, it wasn't beneath him.
- if it wasn't beneath him, he can't have been reaching for it.
- if he wasn't reaching for it he had no reason to be in the mat voluntarily.
The rest of the story doesn't swing me either way, but this has got me stuck. I know there's quite a few people who are adamant LE got it right & I'm happy to join you if this clean shoe can be explained. So far, as far as I can see, the only way that shoe doesn't destroy the LE scenario is if there's a photo of the other shoe from that pair & it is saturated??
Teens do really "dumb" things, and think they are invincible. KJ may have assumed he could reach down and get the shoe. It wasn't necessarily on the floor. The matts were horizontal when he put the shoe in before the holidays, upright after. Maybe he didn't fall, but intentionally went in, hooking his feet, with shoes on, at the top. Maybe even grabbed the black shoe with the other hand, brought it up to his chest, started to back up... Realized he was stuck... lost his toe hold, etc, etc
The picture of the shoe in the bloody spot almost points to no cover-up, in my mind. As for who would benefit most from a cover up... The school. Someone knew the kids walked on and sat on these matts.
My 2 cents - A noob to mds and this thread :-)
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
