Deorr Kunz Jr (2) Missing Timber Creek Campground at Stone Reservoir Lemhi County

[songbirdsong]

So do you think little Deorr died at home and the camping trip was really a body disposal mission?

I'm still thinking he was never there dead or alive. I think killed elsewhere and "lost in the woods" was a perfect way to divert attention away from where they really put him.

Great-Grandpa and his friend said he was there at the campsite, so I believe he was there and died at some point during the trip. It was July...maybe he got in one of the cars and had a heat stroke. Or he wandered off and they found him dead and panicked.

(I don't know how I missed that it was a great-grandfather, not a grandfather. How old was this guy? Not to be a raging ageist, but who leaves a toddler in the care of someone that old and presumably in ill health? In the woods, no less?)

[TupeloHoney]

Just for reference, here's the article where the PI says he believes Deorr is dead and that there is forensic evidence of his death (he doesn't address it in the link I posted above): http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/2016/...-him/79029498/


Also, the "evidence of his death" could have been found in one of the vehicles ... such as the camper ... not necessarily in the wilderness.

[songbirdsong]

To me it seems strange that someone would be afraid to come forward out of fear of backlash. Retaliation for doing the right thing?

Unless that someone is a family member or close friend of mom/dad who didn't come forward because they wanted to give the parents the benefit of doubt.

Or someone who sold them pot or something.

[Boston Babe 73]

To me it seems strange that someone would be afraid to come forward out of fear of backlash. Retaliation for doing the right thing?

Unless that someone is a family member or close friend of mom/dad who didn't come forward because they wanted to give the parents the benefit of doubt.

Or someone who sold them pot or something.

That's the thing. You mentioned that Great Grandpa and friend said they saw him at the site. I'm saying it happened elsewhere and they're acting as an alibi to keep whichever (or both) Parent is responsible from getting in to trouble. They'd be afraid to come forward because they lied and might be charged as an accessory, right? Makes sense to me.

Although I don't know who these witnesses are, the only people I've seen so far to claim they saw him there were Family members and a Friend.

[songbirdsong]

That's the thing. You mentioned that Great Grandpa and friend said they saw him at the site. I'm saying it happened elsewhere and they're acting as an alibi to keep whichever (or both) Parent is responsible from getting in to trouble. They'd be afraid to come forward because they lied and might be charged as an accessory, right? Makes sense to me.

Although I don't know who these witnesses are, the only people I've seen so far to claim they saw him there were Family members and a Friend.

I guess I could see that happening. When you say elsewhere, do you mean on the same trip, just not at the campsite? Like on the way there? That was supposedly the first time they met the friend. On one hand I would say, why cover for someone you've just met when they were the ones stupid enough to leave him with the sick old man? But then on the other hand, he apparently has something on his record, which might make him paranoid about talking to LE in the first place.

So you could be right. Maybe now that he's lawyered up, he might be willing to make a deal.

[DrMichaelBaden]

What kind of parents would dispose of their sweet baby like trash if it was an accident? I know I would be so devastated that worrying any legal repercussions would pale in comparison to the loss of my child. Ugh.

[Boston Babe 73]

I guess I could see that happening. When you say elsewhere, do you mean on the same trip, just not at the campsite? Like on the way there? That was supposedly the first time they met the friend. On one hand I would say, why cover for someone you've just met when they were the ones stupid enough to leave him with the sick old man? But then on the other hand, he apparently has something on his record, which might make him paranoid about talking to LE in the first place.

So you could be right. Maybe now that he's lawyered up, he might be willing to make a deal.

Elsewhere as in at home.

[TupeloHoney]

What kind of parents would dispose of their sweet baby like trash if it was an accident? I know I would be so devastated that worrying any legal repercussions would pale in comparison to the loss of my child. Ugh.

I definitely don't think it was an "accident" like he tripped and fell down the creek bank and hit his head on a rock but more like what others have mentioned. Maybe they left him in the car to nap while they explored (napping and exploring are both big parts of their stories) and he died of heat stroke ... something that would be considered child cruelty/criminal negligence (or worse). Or maybe he woke up from his nap, got out of the truck and fell in the creek while nobody was around to watch him.

About 10 or 15 years ago in Utah, a dad left his toddler son sleeping in the truck while he went hunting. The boy woke up, wandered into the snowy wilderness and froze to death. The dad was convicted of negligent homicide and later killed himself. It wouldn't surprise me if Jessica and Deorr were aware of that case since they're from a neighboring state.

Jessica has two older children. Their dad has primary custody, and maybe she feared losing them completely.

Maybe they knew he was beyond help and just freaked out.

I don't know. Like you, I can't imagine worrying about legal repercussions at a time like that, but it happens.


And welcome :)

[DrMichaelBaden]

And welcome :)

Thank you

SometimesI compare how I grew up to how I raise my children and wonder if I am way too overprotective.
Better safe than sorry and a kid 6 feet under.

[of_corpse_not]

I definitely don't think it was an "accident" like he tripped and fell down the creek bank and hit his head on a rock but more like what others have mentioned. Maybe they left him in the car to nap while they explored (napping and exploring are both big parts of their stories) and he died of heat stroke ... something that would be considered child cruelty/criminal negligence (or worse). Or maybe he woke up from his nap, got out of the truck and fell in the creek while nobody was around to watch him.

About 10 or 15 years ago in Utah, a dad left his toddler son sleeping in the truck while he went hunting. The boy woke up, wandered into the snowy wilderness and froze to death. The dad was convicted of negligent homicide and later killed himself. It wouldn't surprise me if Jessica and Deorr were aware of that case since they're from a neighboring state.

Jessica has two older children. Their dad has primary custody, and maybe she feared losing them completely.

Maybe they knew he was beyond help and just freaked out.

I don't know. Like you, I can't imagine worrying about legal repercussions at a time like that, but it happens.


And welcome :)

Is that what the movie Angels Crest is based on?

[TupeloHoney]

Is that what the movie Angels Crest is based on?

I don't know for certain, but it sure sounds like the exact same story. Here's a link about the case: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92851

Very sad.

[DrMichaelBaden]

Oh my...I didn't hear about this one. Awful. Sounds like it was guilt and not jail that caused him to kill himself.

[TupeloHoney]

Oh my...I didn't hear about this one. Awful. Sounds like it was guilt and not jail that caused him to kill himself.

Yeah definitely. I didn't mean to make it sound like he killed himself simply because he was convicted, if that's what it sounded like.

I just meant it as an example of an "accident" that might get them convicted and jailed, causing them to freak out and try to cover it up.

[DrMichaelBaden]

The Utah dad....I had to read about it.
It happened in 2000. The man's name was Paul Wayment and his son was Gage.
I read the man who found Gage's body carried it for 2 hours until he collapsed.
This is a very good Pulitzer Prize winning article. I had a lump in my throat by the end:
http://articles.latimes.com/2001/dec/30/news/mn-18995

[Angiebla]

We don't know if it was an accident yet. Even if it was an accident, I feel like the parents tried to pin the whole thing on the great grandpa from the get-go by implying he was the last one watching Deorr. They also blamed an invisible man in a Rubicon.

So much time, energy, and resources were used to look for this child. If they knew where he was the whole time, then they should be prosecuted for something.

[TupeloHoney]

We don't know if it was an accident yet. Even if it was an accident, I feel like the parents tried to pin the whole thing on the great grandpa from the get-go by implying he was the last one watching Deorr. They also blamed an invisible man in a Rubicon.

So much time, energy, and resources were used to look for this child. If they knew where he was the whole time, then they should be prosecuted for something.

I'm in no way suggesting they shouldn't be prosecuted if they are covering something up and have been lying this whole time. And I don't think it's fair to put it on great-grandpa, either.

I know we don't know it was an accident, but we can still discuss scenarios that include accidents, right?



I think it's possible that great-grandpa is the person who has come forward with the "previously withheld" information. (Or maybe another family member who speaks to ggp.)

We know it's not Isaac, because although he cooperated with police, he has refused to speak with the PI, and the new info came from the PI.

[Angiebla]

Isaac did an interview:

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01...disappearance/

I would say he is touched.

[Angiebla]

Letter from the first PI (Vilt) sent to the parents. It was also sent to the Idaho Falls police. It was sent to them in September, but is just now being released to the public.

It looks like he's on the same page as Boston.

[DrMichaelBaden]

Letter from the first PI (Vilt) sent to the parents. It was also sent to the Idaho Falls police. It was sent to them in September, but is just now being released to the public.

It looks like he's on the same page as Boston.

Damm. Epic fail to hire a good PI if you are guilty. If that is the case. Which it probably is.

[TupeloHoney]

After watching Isaac's interview and the interview the PI (Klein, not Vilt) gave in response to Isaac's, I think there's little doubt Deorr was alive on that camping trip at some point.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01...and-interview/

But I'll guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Nic B]

Damm. Epic fail to hire a good PI if you are guilty. If that is the case. Which it probably is.

My guess is he heard about the case and offered, like he said, for free. They said yes because they didn't want to look guilty, but he was asking too many questions and they shut up. Just a guess.

[Boston Babe 73]

I think that when they asked Isaac if he knew who was behind it and his answer was, "I like helping people" it was very telling

[Defy Gravity]

I think that when they asked Isaac if he knew who was behind it and his answer was, "I like helping people" it was very telling

I wouldn't read much into it. The comments say that his IQ level is below 100 and his polygraph results were ruled inconclusive due to his mental state. He might have misunderstood the question. He was very nervous also which can lead one to misunderstand questions.

[Boston Babe 73]

I wouldn't read much into it. The comments say that his IQ level is below 100 and his polygraph results were ruled inconclusive due to his mental state. He might have misunderstood the question. He was very nervous also which can lead one to misunderstand questions.

True. Just found that interesting. Piqued my interest when I heard it because most everything else he answered was pretty straight forward. Lower IQ could also result in more than honest answers. Just... interesting.

[songbirdsong]

True. Just found that interesting. Piqued my interest when I heard it because most everything else he answered was pretty straight forward. Lower IQ could also result in more than honest answers. Just... interesting.

The whole Brendan Dassey thing really highlights the challenges of interviewing someone with a lower IQ. But in this case I don't get the impression anyone in LE was trying to goad Isaac into anything. So I agree...very interesting.

Also I had been really skeptical earlier about why this guy would have been friends with great-grandpa...but now I can kind of see it.