Jacob and Sarah (2 & 3) missing, but paranoid schizophrenic mother Catherine Hoggle says they are safe

[Monter]

You're right, Monter. You're the all supreme knowing when it comes to schizophrenia and parenting and no one should question that ever, and your sarcasm should be seen as nothing but gleaming knowledge and experience always. Anyone who contests you and thinks your opinion is off is just a know nothing ass talker. :smite:





You're so mature.

Thanks for taking the liberty to defriend me on facebook over this. Hats off to you.

You are quite bent and venomous about this arent you?
I explained I want no part of your garbage. I meant it. The internet is not that serious worth getting upset over.

[Shins]

You are quite bent and venomous about this arent you?
I explained I want no part of your garbage. I meant it. The internet is not that serious worth getting upset over.

Yeah, I am. Because I'm totally floored by you. I've already asked you to review my posts and point out exactly where I was being some huge snarky asshole to you, prior to you smiting me and telling me I had no idea wtf I was talking about. Which you still haven't done. So far the only garbage I'm seeing here is your delusional tantrum.

It's awesome how I can debate with other people and you're always in my corner, but the second I question a comment you make you lose your fucking shit and go on a smite/insult/fb defriend spree. Holy Alice in fucking Wonderland.

[Nic B]

You're right, Monter. You're the all supreme knowing when it comes to schizophrenia and parenting and no one should question that ever, and your sarcasm should be seen as nothing but gleaming knowledge and experience always. Anyone who contests you and thinks your opinion is off is just a know nothing ass talker. :smite:





You're so mature.

Thanks for taking the liberty to defriend me on facebook over this. Hats off to you.

Oooh, shit just got real!

Can't we all just get along? Now e-hug and make up you two!

[UncomfortablyNumb]

DAYUM. I love both of you and I do see both sides of the fence.

I'll use me as an example..I have BPD, I love my kids and would never harm them. HOWEVER, my son has serious emotional problems...which he came by from me, as his dad has no mental illness. If I would have known what I know now about my mental illness, I would have thought twice about having children, knowing that they could possibly deal with a life long battle of depression and frequent thoughts of suicide, even on medication. Knowing that my son is going to deal his whole life battling mental illness, because of me, absolutely kills me. I definitely see where monter is coming from, based upon my own situation.

Also, just for the sake of conversation, I had a shitty ass childhood as well. My mom was very self-centered and didn't give 2 fucks about me or what I witnessed her doing. She has no mental health issues. Sometimes people are just fucking assholes and they can't think about anyone but themselves.

[Shins]

DAYUM. I love both of you and I do see both sides of the fence.

I'll use me as an example..I have BPD, I love my kids and would never harm them. HOWEVER, my son has serious emotional problems...which he came by from me, as his dad has no mental illness. If I would have known what I know now about my mental illness, I would have thought twice about having children, knowing that they could possibly deal with a life long battle of depression and frequent thoughts of suicide, even on medication. Knowing that my son is going to deal his whole life battling mental illness, because of me, absolutely kills me. I definitely see where monter is coming from, based upon my own situation.

Also, just for the sake of conversation, I had a shitty ass childhood as well. My mom was very self-centered and didn't give 2 fucks about me or what I witnessed her doing. She has no mental health issues. Sometimes people are just fucking assholes and they can't think about anyone but themselves.

Sorry to hear that, UN. I respect the idea of considering these things before having children. I had an issue with mocking the idea of schizo's having kids, like they're all some child torturers and killers, since that's not the experience I had.

In your defense, I wouldn't beat yourself up too bad about it. There are people who have no known issues who have children with mental issues, or genetic issues, etc. It's just life and the game is mostly about how you cope. It's really obvious that you love your kids and put them as a first priority, so BPD aside, you're already a better parent than many.

Like I said, if we all sat back and calculated the reasons why people shouldnt have kids, we wouldnt have any more kids. We just need to learn how to manage.

Keep in mind this is just me talking out of my ass.

[Monter]

Yeah, I am. Because I'm totally floored by you. I've already asked you to review my posts and point out exactly where I was being some huge snarky asshole to you, prior to you smiting me and telling me I had no idea wtf I was talking about. Which you still haven't done. So far the only garbage I'm seeing here is your delusional tantrum.

It's awesome how I can debate with other people and you're always in my corner, but the second I question a comment you make you lose your fucking shit and go on a smite/insult/fb defriend spree. Holy Alice in fucking Wonderland.

I have been here long enough to understand that no one wants to see 12 pages of dragged out reposting of shit. I get told Im wrong a lot. I got told Im wrong here in this situation. I have a problem with how you went about it. Yes, there is a personal point to this ( not solely) - it absolutely caused such a heated response. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me or questioning me. Your being "surprised at me" for saying such a thing, which was based out of my experience- came off completely condescending and dismissive.

[animosity]

I have been here long enough to understand that no one wants to see 12 pages of dragged out reposting of shit. I get told Im wrong a lot. I got told Im wrong here in this situation. I have a problem with how you went about it. Yes, there is a personal point to this ( not solely) - it absolutely caused such a heated response. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me or questioning me. Your being "surprised at me" for saying such a thing, which was based out of my experience- came off completely condescending and dismissive.

except for me. i could read this shit until next tuesday. that's an entire week. carry on.

[Shins]

I have been here long enough to understand that no one wants to see 12 pages of dragged out reposting of shit. I get told Im wrong a lot. I got told Im wrong here in this situation. I have a problem with how you went about it. Yes, there is a personal point to this ( not solely) - it absolutely caused such a heated response. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me or questioning me. Your being "surprised at me" for saying such a thing, which was based out of my experience- came off completely condescending and dismissive.

Seeing that we've been friend on this site for like, 2yrs now, you should know when I'm being condescending and dismissive. I'm pretty direct in that regard. I'm sorry if me telling you I was surprised by you, when I was actually surprised by you, was offensive. I have no idea on what planet that could be offensive, but I guess it's yours.

[UncomfortablyNumb]

except for me. i could read this shit until next tuesday. that's an entire week. carry on.

Pot stirrer.



I can watch this shit for days except for when it's 2 people that I respect and adore. If one of them wants to duke it out with someone I don't care for, I'm good with that. Ha.

[Angiebla]

Shins, it sounds to me like your uncle had a very mild or less obvious case of schizophrenia. Not all cases are like your uncle's.

I only know one person whose parent has schizophrenia, she also has MS. Her mom has been in a group home most of her life, and she lived with my SIL for several years. She has tried to kill herself numerous times. She's been in and out of the hospital. The whole situation is very sad.

[Boston Babe 73]

Shins, it sounds to me like your uncle had a very mild or less obvious case of schizophrenia. Not all cases are like your uncle's.

I only know one person whose parent has schizophrenia, she also has MS. Her mom has been in a group home most of her life, and she lived with my SIL for several years. She has tried to kill herself numerous times. She's been in and out of the hospital. The whole situation is very sad.

Agreed. There are varying degrees of mental illness and each individual is different in how they are able to manage it and how crippling it is. This Woman obviously had no control over it and by the looks of it, her kids paid the price for that. At the end of the day, nobody wants to see children suffer because of someone else's problems.

[Shins]

Yeah, his case was totally mild, considering he heard voices that eventually led him to kill himself. Totes not that serious.

[Angiebla]

Yeah, his case was totally mild, considering he heard voices that eventually led him to kill himself. Totes not that serious.

Well then I don't see the point you are trying to make. How could a person hearing voices telling them to kill themselves possibly make a good parent? If they cant care for themselves properly, how could they care for a child?

[Shins]

Well then I don't see the point you are trying to make. How could a person hearing voices telling them to kill themselves possibly make a good parent? If they cant care for themselves properly, how could they care for a child?

Maybe you should go back on all the posts where I've already discussed this in detail...

My point is managing your illness or problem. People who are schizophrenic can make just as good of parents as anyone else with a mental illness, or addiciton, or problem that impairs them. They're not all just a bunch of psychotic fucks who mind fuck their kids and/or kill them. Just because my uncle killed himself because of his illness doesn't make him a bad parent. His kids didn't know about his diagnosis until after he was dead, when they were looking for how/why he would possibly do this. Because he managed his illness and kept it away from his kids. It wasn't until they were all grown and moved away that he started to let go.

[Angiebla]

Maybe you should go back on all the posts where I've already discussed this in detail...

My point is managing your illness or problem. People who are schizophrenic can make just as good of parents as anyone else with a mental illness, or addiciton, or problem that impairs them. They're not all just a bunch of psychotic fucks who mind fuck their kids and/or kill them. Just because my uncle killed himself because of his illness doesn't make him a bad parent. His kids didn't know about his diagnosis until after he was dead, when they were looking for how/why he would possibly do this. Because he managed his illness and kept it away from his kids. It wasn't until they were all grown and moved away that he started to let go.

I do not think schizophrenics are bad people. I think they aren't in control of their own thoughts. Their delusions consume them. They literally cannot tell the difference between reality and fantasy. I feel very bad for them.

[bowieluva]

I do not think schizophrenics are bad people. I think they aren't in control of their own thoughts. Their delusions consume them. They literally cannot tell the difference between reality and fantasy. I feel very bad for them.

If they are unmedicated.

There are also many layers and levels and types of schizophrenia.

[Angiebla]

If they are unmedicated.

There are also many layers and levels and types of schizophrenia.

I agree that there are variations of the disease. Medication does not work for every case.

[Monter]

I agree that there are variations of the disease. Medication does not work for every case.

It is one of the hardest diseases to effectively medicate.
Look at what some poor people go through when they have no other options and get put on Clozaril.
Even then, some still have breakthrough symptoms.
Every case is different, absolutely.

[Monter]

Well then I don't see the point you are trying to make. How could a person hearing voices telling them to kill themselves possibly make a good parent? If they cant care for themselves properly, how could they care for a child?

I owe you rep.

[bermstalker]

Charges against Catherine Hoggle — the mentally ill Montgomery County mother whose toddlers remain missing — should be dropped because detectives improperly interrogated her inside a state psychiatric hospital this month, an attorney for Hoggle asserted in court papers filed late Tuesday.

The attorney, David Felsen, said that during an interrogation inside the Clifton T. Perkins Hospital Center, investigators told Hoggle that she could not call a lawyer. The detectives’ intentions were “to confuse, intimidate, frighten and substantially impair Catherine Hoggle,” Felsen wrote.http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...453_story.html

[animosity]

so, is she on the meds yet? seriously.

[Queena]

Sad to say, but I don't think those babies are alive. It's been over a month. If someone had them, wouldn't they come forward? This reminds me of the little boy that went missing here in Illinois after his Mom committed suicide. I don't think they've found him either.

[PeaceBeWithMe]

She had a hearing today. Insists, if they let her out, she'll take them to the kids cuz they're "alive".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...2d5_story.html

A Montgomery County judge denied prosecutors’ request Thursday to allow Catherine Hoggle – the mentally ill mother linked to the disappearance of her two young children – to be temporarily released from a psychiatric hospital because Hoggle has indicated that she wants to take police to the children.

District Judge Eugene Wolfe said he was not convinced that Hoggle was mentally competent enough for such a venture.

The emotional hearing, attended by Hoggle’s family members, who have been searching for the children for two months, was the first time Hoggle has appeared in person in court since her Sept. 12 arrest. The 27-year-old did not look at her family members.

Absolutely.

Bet they're just riding around Yosemite on the back on a unicorn right now.

Nutter.

[Nic B]

Why don't they just humor her and agree to let her lead them to the kids? She may lead them to their bodies. It couldn't hurt; they do that with other murderers. Of course, keep her cuffed and with lots of other cops around, I don't mean just let her go free.

[queenaevadamthng]

I was thinking that too. Humor the woman.