City of Detroit shuts off water to thousands of delinquent residents - Protest ensues.

[Shins]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ater/12734925/

Bankruptcy judge tells Detroit to address water shutoffs

DETROIT ? The city's program to cut off water to residents who have not paid their bills has given the city a bad reputation in the eyes of the world, bankruptcy Judge Steven Rhodes said as he used his courtroom to demand that Detroit better address the problem.

Detroit's bankruptcy hearings took a detour Tuesday into public policy as Rhodes, the judge overseeing the city's historic bankruptcy filing, has become all too familiar with many of the city's problems. He acknowledged being unsure whether it was within his authority to deal with the water shutoff issue.

On Wednesday, the first day of hearings over legal issues with Detroit's bankruptcy restructuring plan, Rhodes questioned a firefighters union that wants to block the city from imposing a new pension plan for active employees. A five-week trial on the city's debt-cutting plan of adjustment starts Aug. 14.

The city cut off water to thousands of residents in recent months, part of a program launched in the fall to go after unpaid bills after years of lax enforcement.


"Your residential shutoff program has caused not only a lot of anger in the city and also a lot of hardship," Rhodes told Darryl Latimer, deputy director of the water department. The other issue: "It's caused a lot of bad publicity for the city it doesn't need right now."

He told water officials to be back in court Monday to update him on city initiatives to help residents in arrears keep their water on.

Failure to collect undermines the financial stability of the water department and forces higher rates on customers who pay, water officials have said. The city also is stepping up collections against commercial customers.

Many residents who receive shutoff notices do not contact the city for help in paying their bills, Latimer said. He acknowledged the department does not have the staff to visit those people before contractors are sent out to disconnect water service.

The average Detroit water bill is $40 to $70 a month, and the average delinquency is 90 to 120 days, Latimer said. A bill of $150 or more that is 60 days past due will trigger a water shutoff.

Rhodes said the city needs to create a "much more aggressive plan" to inform residents about overdue bills, payment plans and financial help.

Emergency manager Kevyn Orr's office had no immediate comment Tuesday.

Activists have fought the shutoff program, prompting condemnation of the city's effort as a human rights violation by a United Nations commission and criticism from politicians. Mayor Mike Duggan, who doesn't have control over the water department, has said the shutoffs were handled poorly and should have come with more public notice and information.

Detroit filed for bankruptcy protection a year ago, citing debts and projected long-term liabilities of $18 billion.

[Shins]

This protest put my building on lockdown today.

I'm interested to know what people think about this. I'm a pretty progressive thinker, but I'm not in agreement with this protest. Our water rates aren't that expensive.

If their argument is that water is a human right and these people should have it regardless of payment, then why is anyone paying for it?

[Boston Babe 73]

This protest put my building on lockdown today.

I'm interested to know what people think about this. I'm a pretty progressive thinker, but I'm not in agreement with this protest. Our water rates aren't that expensive.

If their argument is that water is a human right and these people should have it regardless of payment, then why is anyone paying for it?

I'm not there or in the thick of it, but my first thought is that yes water is essential to live. But nobody is forcing them to go without water. It's not like every water source is being blockaded so people dehydrate. A water bill pays for the maintenance of the infrastructure that brings the water in to your home. People still have to be paid to maintain it. You're paying for the convenience to turn on your faucet and have it flow out. And it's not that expensive.

Simple enough. If you don't want to pay for that convenience, you're welcome to go out and find your own water source.

[Miller22]

I don't agree. I remember shortly after we moved into this house J was in charge of our water/trash bill. Well, he forgot to pay and we got a shut off notice. That was after 1 month. We had to pay - why shouldn't they? The company rep is right, not paying impacts other customers.

Being 60-90 days behind and expecting free services isn't right. I don't know about Detroit, but every major city I've lived in has assistance programs. You mag have to do a little leg work, but assistance is out there (I've been in the position of needing it so I speak from experience, bug again don't know about Detroit.). The rep also stated many customers never contacted thes company to discuss their bill. This to me shows either shame because they can't pay and don't want to admit it, or feeling like its OK to duck out on bills.

Water being shut off sucks. Any utility does. But if you don't communicate then that's on you.

[Boston Babe 73]

Arguing that having water magically appear in your pipes for free as a "Human Right" sort of reminds me of this kid

[Shins]

Arguing that having water magically appear in your pipes for free as a "Human Right" sort of reminds me of this kid

OH MY GOD YOU READ MY MIND.


This was the exact approach and meme that came to mind.

You're paying for the convenience of water coming into your home. Legally they can't shut it off if you pay ANYTHING towards it monthly... even $10. So all this is telling me is that people just don't want to pay for water. Well, I don't either... but I like having clean water to shit in, and don't really fancy the idea of taking my bucket down to the rouge river.

[Boston Babe 73]

I can sympathize with the dire position that some people are in, but protesting first world problems just makes us as a nation look dumb to the rest of the world. We have much bigger problems to be fighting against. And just like Miller said, it saddles the rest of the people who are paying their water bill with the burden. And it put you out by forcing your building in to lock down.

I don't get how those folks don't understand that it costs money to purify and deliver water directly to a home and why there needs to be some kind of compensation for it. But hey..... Whatever lol.

[emmieslost]

i would gladly pay for water so that someone in need, who cannot afford it, can still have access to clean, safe water. but that's me.

people need access to clean water. it's a public safety issue.

[Shins]

i would gladly pay for water so that someone in need, who cannot afford it, can still have access to clean, safe water. but that's me.

people need access to clean water. it's a public safety issue.

I totally agree, but there are assistance programs in place. And like I mentioned before, if you even pay $10 towards your bill they legally can't shut it off. If these people can't afford $10 a month then I don't know how they have the house in the first place.

[Shins]

http:/http://www.freep.com/article/2...S01/307180148/

Mark Ruffalo is havin none of that.

[Miller22]

http:/http://www.freep.com/article/2...S01/307180148/

Mark Ruffalo is havin none of that.

Tax wall street? Well, I'm sure they pay their water bill sooooo....?

[emmieslost]

Tax wall street? Well, I'm sure they pay their water bill sooooo....?

there are plenty of corporations that may pay their water bill but aren't paying taxes, or are paying a very small percentage. not just corporations, but wealthy people. shit, i keep forgetting that corporations ARE people.

also, that link doesn't work so i'm not sure exactly what you're referencing. nor am i familiar with freep.com. but i'm all about taxing the rich and doing something extreme about the wealth inequality in this country.

[Nic B]

And I'm waiting for the people protesting to start saying "What's next? We have to start paying for air to breathe?!?"

[Shins]

there are plenty of corporations that may pay their water bill but aren't paying taxes, or are paying a very small percentage. not just corporations, but wealthy people. shit, i keep forgetting that corporations ARE people.

also, that link doesn't work so i'm not sure exactly what you're referencing. nor am i familiar with freep.com. but i'm all about taxing the rich and doing something extreme about the wealth inequality in this country.

Freep.com is the Detroit Freepress. Not sure why that link isn't working.

Same info: http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...s+-+MLive.com)

[Miller22]

there are plenty of corporations that may pay their water bill but aren't paying taxes, or are paying a very small percentage. not just corporations, but wealthy people. shit, i keep forgetting that corporations ARE people.

also, that link doesn't work so i'm not sure exactly what you're referencing. nor am i familiar with freep.com. but i'm all about taxing the rich and doing something extreme about the wealth inequality in this country.

Link didn't work for me but I goggled ruffalo and detroit water. Basically, he joined the protest. Which, ok sure. But basically they're saying "Turn on our water, Tax Wall Street." I suppose I'm missing the connection.

I get taxing corporations and the rich to close the large gap, but how about "Pay your bill, get your water turned back on."

Per Shins, there are already services available for people who need assistance. One article states that some 17,000 customers are working with the water company because they can not pay their bill. These people seem to be saying "Tax wall street and give us free water!" Um, no. Water, brought to your home, is not a right. That's not how it works. There are resources for water and places you can go to take showers, use the bathroom ect. You have to be resourceful, but there are. It very much appears that those protesting simply do not wish to seek out available resources or aide, or even just contact the water company to discuss options. They just want free water. That's not right.

[Miller22]

Thats my issue too. You can get 10 dollars from somewhere - even standing on the corner with a sign. So they just opted to not psy, not try and expected it. They also didn't utilize programs available. So, no, no sympathy from me.

[marycontrary]

My water service is taxed to pay for a sewer project to bring up to federal standards an older part of the city that lets rain water runoff enter the sewer system. Even if I do not use any water, my bill is $35 for the sewer issue. Water is getting expensive here and the utility also provides gas. If your bill isn't paid, both water and gas is cut off. They won't cut the gas if below freezing, but the water gets cut year round. If they shut off your services, they paint a big blue X on the curb in front of your house in paint that never wears off. Makes traveling through the neighborhoods interesting.

[Nic B]

I pay my water bill and I would be pissed if my rates went up because other people didn't want to pay and expect it for free. It either costs money for everyone, or is free for everyone. What makes these people, who are angry their water was shut off due to non-payment, so special? It's just like any other bill you have: pay it or you lose it.

[Shins]

I pay my water bill and I would be pissed if my rates went up because other people didn't want to pay and expect it for free. It either costs money for everyone, or is free for everyone. What makes these people, who are angry their water was shut off due to non-payment, so special? It's just like any other bill you have: pay it or you lose it.

They already have gone up because of the people who don't/can't pay. Which makes it harder for people like me. I can afford my bills now, but will I be able to if they increase again?

I get your sympathy for these people, Emily. But the fact of the matter is that if their argument is that it's a human right, then can I just decide to stop paying my bill because it's my right? No. I can afford to pay my bills, not everyone elses.

[missbad]

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm getting this, water and sewage to your home is just like any other utility such as power, gas, and whatnot. Your paying to have some one deliver it to your house, it's a conveince to have it all right done before it gets to your sink, toilet, shower, whatever. Someone else is doing all the work for you. That's not a right that's a service.

[neenerneener]

Fuck that. Pay your bills.

[bermstalker]

I don't pay water at all. I have a well.

I think cutting somebody's services off depends on how far behind they are. A month or so....NO. Things happen sometimes that prevents somebody from paying right away.when my brother died- we were stretched to the limit with money.

There are medical/hardship extensions you can get on all your services. If you are 5 or 6 mths behind and you don't have some kind of extension filed- I believe you are just ignoring your bill.

[Nic B]

Some companies are willing to work with you and some just don't care. Years ago when I lived with a bunch of roommates, each of us were in charge of one bill. Say, I was in charge of cable, so I would gather everyone's portion of the bill and send out the check. One guy I lived with for a while was in charge of our electricity bill, and when we thought he was paying the bill by sending his check, after taking our portions, he really wasn't. He all of a sudden moved out, and shortly after we got a our electricity bill saying we were way past due and they would shut us off in 3 days if we didn't pay the $1,300.00 bill. I called them and explained the situation, said we could pay $1,000.00 now and the rest in a week. They refused, flat out said they need $1,300.00 in 3 days or it was shut off. I hate SMUD.

[Shins]

You have no not pay your water bill for like a year before they'll shut it off. The average bill that's delinquent is between $500-$600 dollars.

The problem with just billing people until they pay is that, they won't ever. Especially once it gets to a ridiculous point. Then the rate gets increased for everyone because the service still needs to be funded.

[puzzld]

You have no not pay your water bill for like a year before they'll shut it off. The average bill that's delinquent is between $500-$600 dollars.

The problem with just billing people until they pay is that, they won't ever. Especially once it gets to a ridiculous point. Then the rate gets increased for everyone because the service still needs to be funded.

10-15 days here. They also stop picking up your garbage.