Last edited by daisylane; 10-23-2016 at 04:54 PM.
Originally Posted by Lazarus
How your reputation is still in the green is beyond me.
Maybe you are right and it is required for safety. After all, here in Australia, indigenous Australians account for 3% of the population but 28% of the prison population are indigenous.
I am a respected senior member who posts some inconvenient truths. I am the Al Gore of race relations.
You haven't provided any argument as to why we should have a treaty, who the treaty would be between or the contents of any such treaty.
Do you really think following me around this site, makes me want to discuss anything with you? I learnt the first time we spoke not to bother, or you just end up falling back on insults - not productive or useful.
It's a bit embarrassing really, death2me.
Let's recap what happened. Town with out of control indigenous crime. Indigenous boy steals bike. White man fed up with justice system and indigenous community failing to fix issue takes matters into his own hands, kills the criminal. White man now at the hands of the justice system. Indigenous community takes matters into own hands and riots, damaging other people's property and Government property while claiming this little darling didn't do nothing. Some indigenous person/s burn down a house. All of this is the fault of white people.
Tell me more, the logic is strong.
Happy to discuss it maturely if you stop crying racist at every opportunity. I am genuinely curious because I have heard many calls from indigeous people for a treaty but as far as I can see it would never work.
I've told you many times, cease talking to me. Cease replying to my old posts. I offered you to PM, to stop this shit all over the site, but somehow you couldn't. My small mind doesn't grasp that one.
Also, why, would anyone try to discuss anything with you? You just posted a gif no one in their right mind would use. You demean everyone. You say I'm not intelligent and have a tiny female brain, so stop trying to talk to me if I'm such an idiot.
Simple. Goodbye.
Tiny female brain? When did I say that? Now you are resorting to cries of sexism.
(Yes I already know, it's too long, but there's way too much bullshit published in Australia & it has to be countered where possible)
You don't actually know anyone in Kalgoorlie, do you? & you don't actually know any Aboriginal people in real life.
So let's recap ACCURATELY.
A town out of control with CRIME - that happens when you arrest scapegoats & leave criminals to keep doing their thing. It's not Aboriginal crime, it's just crime - in a town so racist that it's white criminals only have to accuse "the abo scum" once, to have 3/4 of their "decent Aussie" neighbours baying for the blood of Aboriginal children.
This is a town where "anti-crime" facebook groups with over 15K members each - including police & teachers at local schools, have regularly posted death threats against Black kids & no-one condemned it, but many supported.
- a town whose white residents see an Aboriginal kid with a bike & automatically see an Aboriginal kid with a STOLEN bike.
Elijah himself spent unnecessary hours in a police cell because police assumed a bike HE PAID FOR was stolen.
It's a town whose white population demands that people who see Aboriginal kids with dirt bikes should "mow them down". Where white adults threatened to fill local mineshafts with the bodies of Aboriginal kids.
A town where people have posted pix of Aboriginal kids WITH THEIR OWN BIKES, lied the bikes were stolen from them or a friends & asked people to run them down on sight. This is a town where people EAGERLY AGREE TO DO THAT because they accept accusations against Aboriginal kids unquestioningly.
It's a town where " decent Aussies" have acted on these threats & demands for years.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...9a7a57a005c024
It's a town where white criminals have a free ticket to steal because they have ready-made scapegoats & no-one ever doubts that a crime committed in Kalgoorlie has an Aboriginal face behind it.
It's a town where crimes against Aboriginal victims are under-investigated, or never investigated at all.
It's a town where the old racist joke about the slur word for Aboriginal people: "Why are Aboriginals called boongs - because that's the sound they make when they bounce off your bullbar" - isn't a joke, it's a fucking pastime.
One of the cops who kicked 16 yr old John Pat to death was from Kalgoorlie. Racism in that town, & a lot of WA, is ingrained, full of violent hate & sometimes lethal. It's always been that way
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/I...brm_jpp/2.html
Elijah isn't even the first young member of his family to die this way. His own cousin was mowed down by a ute on the main street of Kalgoorlie 9 yrs ago. Despite many witnesses & CCTV the length of the street, police "claim" they were unable to identify the vehicle. A white man was hastily flown out of town though - as were the family & teenage sons of the known racist who killed Elijah.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2...lie-teen-death
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-10-0...hit-run/685664
Elijah was a boy who saved & bought 3 bikes of his own - & had each of them stolen from him.
He was a shy kid who then saved up for parts & built another by hand - & had that bike stolen from him too.
He was a boy, who like many other Aboriginal boys in Kalgoorlie & WA, was hunted down, chased far OFF ROAD into a safe area used for play by local children & mowed down by a racist in the dry creek bed of Gribble Creek
(& where Gribble Creek got it's name is a story of WA racism itself. http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/214694405?)
Police insisted there was "no racist aspect to the crime" within hours. & now they call it alleged "manslaughter", not murder - of course. It's very, very rare for a white Australian to be charged with murder when the victim is Aboriginal. It's just as rare to see a conviction or adequate sentence & if you believe otherwise I'd like you to list 10 cases in the 228yrs since invasion justifying your position.
In Elijah's case police initially claimed the bike was "stolen" & "registered" to the ute owner. Days later this changed to "subject to a theft report" & "connected" to the ute owner.
There's been nothing but defence of this man from white Australians & his "right" to recover his stolen property by any means necessary.
But Elijah had 4 bikes of his own stolen & someone in Kalgoorlie has them. They're unregistered dirt bikes, often traded secondhand, so ownership is difficult to establish quickly. This killer has teenage sons of his own & now police have very distinctly changed their wording re the ownership & status of the bike Elijah was killed for.
A lot of local mob in Kalgoorlie say Elijah was on his own bike. & they say he didn't steal it - that it was given to him at the reserve & he just happened to be the unlucky one riding it when this violent man deliberately drove his 4wd into a known local play area to hunt down Aboriginal kids - as white Kalgoorlie locals have done many times before AND SINCE.
White "Aussies" in 4wds have also been driving off-road & terrorising mourners at the vigil nightly, despite a police presence. Police do as much to stop it as they did to stop the vehicular assaults against Aboriginal kids prior to Elijah's death ie. NOTHING. The only reason they acknowledged the attack in this instance is the fact a journalist witnessed it & approached them for comment
https://mobile.twitter.com/AllanJCla...43984655462400
cont'd
You mention the arson attack on the killer's home. That fire destroyed the home of a much loved Black pastor. The killer was renting it from him. The entire Aboriginal community knew this & NO-ONE wanted that house touched. Even if anyone had been so overcome with anger that they attacked a house belonging ton someone they respect & care about, it would've happened the night of the riot, not 2 weeks later when everyone had calmed down - everyone except the local racists that is - they never stopped their threats & taunts & "somehow" they knew about the fire within minutes & were on-scene, circling in their 4wds & yelling threats. They were active online too. Threatening the local Aboriginal community with violence, saying bikers were en-route to Kalgoorlie, throwing around comments like "if I was "indigenous" I wouldn't be caught on the street tonight".
While the fire was still burning Elijah's dad's home was raided by police & everyone was locked outside on the street during this night of heightened threats. Everyone except one of Elijah's 10yr old siblings who was locked in the house with police & questioned FOR HOURS, without an adult for support, while his family waited helplessly on the footpath, held back by other police.
But you didn't see THAT reported anywhere, did you?
& the riot? You have no clue how it even started. People were already upset because police NEVER cordoned off the crime scene. Even in a DEFINITE accident on a busy highway, the scene is closed off for hours if there's been a fatality. That NEVER happened in this case. They let it get trampled before they could conduct a proper investigation & before any independent pix could be taken. Why? Maybe it has something to do with the FACT that every other vehicular assault in Kalgoorlie has involved 2 or 3 4wds working together to corner kids?
Adding more insult to injury, at the courthouse people were assured this man would face justice. Understandably, after the failure to even question the man responsible for the death of Elijah's cousin, people wanted to SEE this actually happening & they were assured they would be allowed access to the public gallery - a privilege the friends & family of white victims expect without question.
But at the last minute, despite the crowd being well-behaved, the doors were deliberately slammed & locked in the faces of his cousins, school friends & acquaintances & they were then verbally provoked by some police. This is standard police behaviour in WA. Mob there are used to it & know how to shrug it off but on this occasion grieving people were very understandably pushed beyond the brink. (& for some context here, I've personally seen WA Police troll their own official FB pages to try to provoke trouble at planned vigils for Elijah in other WA towns. The posts were immediately removed when WAPolice head office were alerted via twitter -whether that was because they didn't condone it, or because they didn't want this practice known publicly, I can't say, but I'm favouring the latter given the WA Police Commissioner's recent remarks blaming vandalism at Kalgoorlie High on bad Aboriginal parenting. Australians like you jumped on board to say his comments were justified. & then it emerged the accused boy is a white Aussie. If he hadn't been caught, every Aboriginal kid in that school would've been blamed AS PER FUCKING USUAL.
Your incarceration stats are misleading too.
In WA the Aboriginal incarceration rate is NINE TIMES the rate of apartheid era South Africa.
In the Northern Territory NINETY EIGHT PER CENT of juvenile detainees are Aboriginal.
The stats are well over 50% in EVERY STATE
Your own govt accepts that the numbers are UNJUSTIFIABLY disproportionate but ask an Aussie like you & they'll be utterly convinced it's due to the inherent criminality of Blackfullas. You'll tell us systemic racism doesn't exist, that Australia never had slavery, that "the Blacks here don't know how good they've got it" so "you people just don't understand what REAL racism" looks like.
I say it looks like a nation that's too blind to recognise modern lynching when it's happening on their own watch
3mths before Elijah
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/re...d-hit-and-run/
A month before Elijah
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...f489763d059cc1
After Elijah
(9News had to delete some of the comments from "decent Aussies" saying this child basically deserved summary execution too)
https://m.facebook.com/9NewsPerth/ph...029133/?type=3
Threats to murder Aboriginal kids in Kununurra after Elijah.
http://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/nitv-news...ions-kununurra
Know why WA Police rarely even acknowledge all of these attacks? Because they don't just condone it, they do it too.
This young man wasn't suspected of anything other than being Aboriginal in public on a WA street.
http://indymedia.org.au/justice-for-...ort-group.html
http://thestringer.com.au/national-d...0#.WA2mG9Y7Zct
There's a gun enthusiast saying in parts of Australia - "why waste ammo when you've got a 1 tonne bullet".
There aren't many police shootings in WA.
White property has ALWAYS been more important than Aboriginal lives in Australia, & theft & property damage will always be a bigger public concern in WA than Aboriginal kids having one of the highest suicide rates in the world (something that was rare in Aboriginal communities until very, very recently)
http://www.abc.net.au/kimberley/topi...uicide/?page=1
Basically, like the vast majority of Australians, you don't know shit when it comes to Aboriginal subjects, & you can't have logic without knowledge.
Last edited by blighted star; 10-23-2016 at 10:13 PM.
Aussie MDS members, if you want to justify murder & assault on Aboriginal kids, don't PM me. Do it here in the thread
You're a fucking BOSSSSSSSS.
No shit!!! That was AWESOME!!!
No problem.
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SuntoryBoss said:
Yesterday 09:56 PM
Your post regarding Kalgoorlie
Which city do you live in?
I live in regional Australia. We have a lot of aboriginals here and the vast majority of property crime is committed by aboriginals. Mostly youths break and entering, stealing cars, bikes, anything they can get their hands on.
These are not crimes committed by whites and framed on aboriginals. Community members and shops regulalry post camera footage of these criminals caught in action.
The police catch the criminals, prosecute them, they get a slap on the wrist and back on the street quickly. Meanwhile a hard working person has lost their hard earned car.
This happens every night here. The situation is out of control. People talk about vigilantism and I have no doubt it will occur soon and some aboriginal kid will end up dead. A lot of people in this town will be secretly happy. The aboriginal community will be sad. Suddenly they will care about this kid. They didn't care when he was stealing and hurting people but when he is hurt himself they will suddenly care.
Ughhh. You obviously live in one of the many areas where we fail to provide any social supports/or say we do, and don't really.
I'm not blind, this does happen, but as you can see above - it goes both ways, I don't need to reiterate what Blighted said - did you read it?
This is a cycle. A cycle due to the parents getting minimal/no welfare support (the Aboriginal welfare 'step up' is a fallacy - and i'm unbiased on that, as I work in welfare and want everyone to be able to access assistance) - that won't change until government does. I'd bet though, your electorate keeps voting in the right, which means your Aboriginal community will continue to get less and less support, perpetuating the very cycle 'you' hate. If the parents have no supports, then how do they actually know how to educate and guide their children?
I read a 'nice' story the other day about a remote community building a church out of 'junk and rubbish' - that was meant to be a happy news story! ... yet we have 4 churches every 2 blocks in Sydney, funded not by 'junk', but by $$.
You cant displace people, introduce alcohol, break the families up, teach them Christianity, then fail to provide any supports later on - of COURSE it's spiralling. And funding just KEEPS getting CUT. Housing alone, not just ATSI housing, has lost THAT MUCH funding, you basically have to have 12 children and be a single mother to get anywhere at this point. Metal Health funding? Cut! Remote communities assistance? CUT!
SO, until supports are in place, real supports, nothing will change, and the little dudes will keep stealing bikes. Want to change it? Take a young fella under your wing, teach him social skills, how to work with you, mentor him.. you might see a drastic change as he grows up - but how often is that something you see? Ever?
It's very easy to complain, how about try doing something about it? Why not put together a youth group for them, spend $50 of your own money to rent out a basketball court for an hour? Because you don't want to spend your $50? Exactly the issue.
Older retired tradesmen could show these kids how to fix/make things, it would benefit them both, but as there's no funding for that either, it won't happen. I have many ideas, but people only care about their $$.
Go!
Care to share some actual statistics to back up your claims?
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
Read above, could have some relevant stats, but I suspect they referenced the 'Daily Wire' in the above too (referenced in another thread - right wing propaganda site), so this is probably from the same place. You'll note these kind of 'stats' etc are always backed up by the few right wing sites around.
We just had a census, and have many actual studies on this that could be sited. Lets see.
What statistics would you like?
http://mypolice.qld.gov.au/farnorth/...aches-october/
60 vehicles stolen in roughly three weeks. Of course it doesn't report the race of the thieves because apparently that would be racist. But jump on any of the crime facebook groups for regional areas with a higher population of aboriginals and you will see the race responsible for the majority of this crime.
It won't let me post links. But in the Cairns area there were 60 cars stolen in the last 3 weeks. This is an area with around 150, 000 people. You can verify this on the Queensland Police website.
Now of course they refuse to report the race of the perpetrators because some people would claim it is racist but you are welcome to join the crime groups for any of these areas and see that the vast majority is aboriginal youths.
The Queensland Police Service website is a right wing site?
In 2012-13 the Aus Gov spent 30.3 billion dollars on Aboriginals. That was 6.1% of total govt expenditure on a group that comprises 3% of the population. Expenditure on aboriginals was 2.08 times that of expenditure on non Aboriginals. So would you still like to argue there isn't enough funding for aboriginals?
As a tax payer that is 6% of the money I pay in taxes every year going to support aboriginal people who are not contributing to society. Roughly $2000 of my hard earned pay last year was given to someone just because they are aboriginal and on welfare. Now you want me to give them an extra $50 to play basketball? You've got to be joking right?
The responsibility for these children does not lie on tax payers continuing to hand them money. Go to any community with a significant aboriginal population and see that money wasted on booze. Tax payers dollars pissed all over the local park. The aboriginal elders need to take responsibility, teach the youger generation some better behaviours and help them to be functioning members of society.
Being from Queensland, this all makes sense. QLD is the new TAS, and yes, I would say the police swing right - due to the states voting record, even just this year.
This is like someone form Texas coming on and writing about all the 'African American kids being thugs' - you take it with a grain of salt due to where they are from, and the influences around them.
I've spent a LOT of time in QLD for work, and I'm sorry, but I was right - there IS minimal supports. Cairns/Darwin are basically the same on that too.
We will NOT sell you alcohol anymore (the drug they got Aboriginal people addicted to on purpose to make the easily manoeuvred), so now they sniff petrol. Then they try to block petrol sales. LOL.
How about putting in place a program for change? Education? Housing? Health? Aboriginal health stats vs 'white' are horrendous.
Here's the stats, from a viable source. when you're ready to use studies/unbiased sources/ hit me - I like this conversation as it helps create change and understand from both sides. You saw above I actually do understand where you're coming from.
You simply paste the damn links, stop that.
(control + c is copy, control + v is paste)
http://www.healthinfonet.ecu.edu.au/...-facts/summary
Some snippets (the ref numbers can be clicked if you open the link above):
"Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are much more likely than non-Indigenous people to die before they are old [14][15]. The most recent estimates from the ABS show that an Indigenous boy born in 2010-2012 was likely to live to 69 years, about 10 years less than a non-Indigenous boy (who could expect to live to 80 years) (Figure 2) [15]. An Indigenous girl born in 2010-2012 is likely to live to 74 years, which is almost 10 years less than a non-Indigenous girl (who is likely to live to 83 years).
Babies born to Indigenous women are almost twice as likely to die in their first year as those born to non-Indigenous women [14]. In 2012-2014, of the Indigenous infant mortality rates for NSW, Qld, WA, SA and the NT, the highest were in the NT and lowest in NSW.
he term ?social and emotional wellbeing? relates to a person's overall social, emotional, psychological (mental), spiritual and cultural wellbeing. Factors that are important to social and emotional wellbeing include a person's:
-connection to country
-spirituality and ancestry (family history)
-relationships with family members and friends (kinship)
-connection to community [2].
Social and emotional wellbeing is considered to be much broader than mental health. Mental health describes how a person thinks and feels, and how they cope with and take part in everyday life. It is often seen, incorrectly, as simply the absence of a mental illness.
Many things can influence a person's social and emotional wellbeing, including:
-discrimination and racism
-physical health problems
-child removals and unresolved trauma
-violence and family violence
-death of family members or friends
-substance and/or alcohol use
-social and economic factors (education, employment, income, housing) [5].
Measuring social and emotional wellbeing is difficult, but it usually relies on self-reported feelings (like happiness or calmness) or 'stressors' (stressful events in a person's life).
Injury can include both physical harm and non-physical harm (for example, metal or emotional), [60] but in public health terms, injury generally refers to physical harm to a person's body [61] including:
-assault
-self-harm
-environmental injuries (e.g. being bitten by a dog or being poisoned by inhaling poisonous fumes)
-falls
-transport accidents [60].
Everyday life situations for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people can affect the types of injuries and the frequency of injuries experienced. Some factors that can increase the risk of injury include:
-disruption to culture
-socioeconomic disadvantage [60]
-living in rural and remote locations (including increased use of roads)
-risky behaviour
-limited access to health services and support services [62].
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people were more likely than other Australians to be admitted to hospital for injuries in 2013-14 [52]. Injury was the second most common reason for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander hospital admissions. The main causes of Indigenous injury-related hospital admissions were medical complications, falls and assault.
Australia's Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people?s health continues to improve slowly although they are still not as healthy as non-Indigenous people overall. The reasons why the health of Indigenous people is worse than for non-Indigenous people are complex, but represent a combination of general factors (like education, employment, income and socioeconomic status) and health sector factors (like not having access to culturally appropriate services or support).
Within the health sector, there is a need for:
-more health advancement programs
-better identification of health conditions before they become serious
-more primary health care services that are accessible to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people
-greater cultural competence of service providers.
Making and combining these changes are important to the long term future for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and for strengthening strategies to improve health outcomes."
Read my above response to see where that money goes - it's paying off the injuries, disease and illness that the government created.
It's not progressing anything, it's trying to fix mistakes of the past, and that's not even working.
This might give you some perspective, I'd bet this is the kind of thing your neighbours still discuss, this was in 1984, -
And this fun fact:
Aboriginals were not considered citizens of Australia until 1967, and some were regulated under Flora and Fauna Law. The federal constitution, written in 1900, explicitly stated that Aboriginals would not be counted in any state or federal census. Queensland was the last state in Australia to grant state voting rights to Aboriginals in 1965; Aboriginals in the Northern Territory were considered ?wards of the state? and were not allowed to vote in federal elections unless they were ex-servicemen up until 1962. Voting and citizenship rights for Aboriginals were written into the constitution with a 1967 referendum, which also removed discriminatory references to Aboriginals from the Constitution and gave Parliament the power to make laws pertaining to Indigenous Peoples (previous to that, state governments had total law-making power over Aborigines). The referendum set a voting record, with 90.77 percent of the entire population voting in favor of it. Interestingly, the highest percentage of ?no? votes were recorded in territories with the highest Aboriginal populations, suggesting that anti-Indigenous racism was still rampant in many areas of Australia (since the passage of the Race Discrimination Act in 1975, 10,5000 complaints have been filed with the government, with more than 3,500 of those coming from Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders). However, though voting is mandatory for all Australian citizens, voting was not made compulsory for Aborigines until 1983. Queensland has lagged behind in many Indigenous rights laws ? Queensland Aborigines could be forced to live on reserves until 1971, and could not own their own property until 1975. In 1959, Aboriginals became eligible to receive pensions and maternity leave, but only if they were not ?nomadic or primitive,? and often group payments were made to reserves or missions rather than individuals or communities. Though many of these discriminatory laws were changed in the 1960s and 1970s, others were being created ? legislation created in the 1970s requires that the estate of an Aboriginal who dies without leaving a will should be automatically put in the hands of a public trustee, rather than granted to the next of kin as is the case with non-Aboriginals. The Law Reform Committee recommended that this law be changed in 2008, and the Department of Indigenous Affairs confirmed in 2012 that they are ?considering it.? Also contentious is New South Wales? Flora and Fauna Law under the National Parks and Wildlife Act. This law claims that the majority of Aboriginal artifacts are ?property of the crown,? and claims jurisdiction over all Aboriginal heritage and culture.
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