Have you even given any consideration as to why recidivism rates are the way they are? You can't just say "oh look at the recidivism rates!!" for proof of your claim.
Have you even given any consideration as to why recidivism rates are the way they are? You can't just say "oh look at the recidivism rates!!" for proof of your claim.
Yeah like maybe jail is an awful abusive place that makes zero attempt at educating or rehabilitating anyone and throws in people convicted of petty theft with murderers.Originally Posted by OctoberT
Ding ding ding.
Hence why recidivism rates decrease when looking at facilities that actually focus on rehabilitation and reintegration back into the community, rather than just kicking people out on their asses with no skills, no treatment, and felonies that prevent them from getting jobs and adequate housing. That's why the recidivism rate is where it's currently at. Not because they're all "psychopaths."
Either way we don't execute people for robbing walmart. There is no absolute like 'oh they didn't kill this person, exonerated of all crimes!' The idea is to oppose KILLING PEOPLE FOR NOTHING WHICH IS ALMOST ALWAYS RACIALLY MOTIVATED. Look at the statistics regarding African American men wrongfully executed.
http://www.truth-out.org/speakout/it...ack-defendants
Plus there are always these little problems with their 'criminal backgrounds':"Black defendants constitute 25% of prisoners incarcerated for rape," according to the Registry, "but 61% of those exonerated for such crimes."
Well, killing people certainly prevents recidivism. Just think of all the people who won't end up back in jail if we just take them out! We could have the prison population at zero within the dcade!
Prime example of what I'm talking about
http://jezebel.com/white-teen-who-al...lac-1793565285
On March 8, an 18-year-old named Breana Harmon Talbott walked into a church in Denison, TX, wearing only her underwear and a shirt, claiming to have escaped three men in ski masks who abducted and raped her. On Wednesday, the local police department announced that they had found Talbott’s allegations to be a hoax.
Look, my original comment was in response to your statement that "a lot of people in Texas are exonerated after having been executed," or something like that (I'm paraphrasing). Your comment is DEMONSTRABLY wrong. I'm not going to debate the death penalty, whether or not it works or is barbaric, or racist, or whatever. Again, I was responding to your ONE BLITHE AND INCORRECT COMMENT.
For what it's worth, I think the death penalty is barbaric and I'm glad I don't have to administer the injection, but some of the people on death row are awful, horrible fuckers and I don't really care if they live or die.
Noob iz good at dishing but canna take it.
No, I think everyone has an issue with you saying that even if someone was wrongfully convicted of murder, it is okay they got the death penalty because they had "long rap sheets" (burglary, etc.) and were "scum" anyways so good riddance.
Happy Birthday! I hid a dead body in your backyard to celebrate. Good luck finding it under the cement. You can only use a stick to look for it.
Yes, that's exactly what I said, and it's fine that people have a problem with that. But extrapolating from my comment and asking, "But what about racism?" "But what about this?" But what about that?" I'm not here to debate every aspect of capital punishment, only to (!) refute Bowie's assertion that "a lot of people in Texas have been exonerated after death," and (2) say that people on death row aren't angels by any stretch, that they have long, violent rap sheets and do not deserve to be out in society... so yes, if they accidentally get killed for a crime they didn't commit, chances are they are scum, anyway, and I won't miss them.
That is all.
Noob iz good at dishing but canna take it.
You refuted her comment with incorrect ones of your own. Makes sense.
At least you're now differentiating your feelings from the facts.
....? Nope.
Dude. The COST of killing these people alone is BARBARIC. Let alone the fact it doesn't deter anyone - DP is meant to be a deterrent - look at you US! What has it deterred? We don't have DP, and we don't spend anywhere NEAR what you spend per prisoner due to this - stats wise, not numbers wise. We also don't have consistent mass killings, spree killings, toddlers shooting others toddlers 'accidentally' etc - it doesn't deter shit. So I don't see what your 'let's kill them' point makes - is it simply for your own emotional payoff? You enjoy seeing people put to death? Because that seems to be all this ever is. An 'eye for an eye'. Pfft. It's CHEAPER to house inmates for their entire lives, than it is to kill them legally - so again, if this is a 'logic' driven thing, you're also way off.
Yep, this is the issue.
Also, blindly labelling everyone on death row as psychopaths, is hilarious. Particularly, coming from someone who clearly lacks empathy or insight.
I think the problem here is that you guys are trying to use facts, logic and morality to discuss the issue, and dolcevita is isn't interested in any of that. She's basing her opinion off of her emotions and isn't interested in a discussion.
I totally kept myself away from this convo the last couple of days because I just wanted to hear Dolce and others out. One thing is clear, we all have our own opinions and beliefs. Though I do not agree with any of Dolce's beliefs, that does not make me or any of my opinions any better in the end.
Dolce, sometimes we just have to step away from a discussion and realize that others are not going to agree with you no matter what.
You said it better than me. I agree with you that no ones opinions are going to change in this instance. However, I also think that this topic isn't something we should step away from. We're literally talking life and death.
I totally agree with you on this and welcome a respectful discussion with all viewpoints.
Absolutely! Nothing will be achieved if both parties don't speak respectfully to each other.I totally agree with you on this and welcome a respectful discussion with all viewpoints.
What, are you suggesting no twat talk? Isn't that what the internet is for?I totally agree with you on this and welcome a respectful discussion with all viewpoints.
Now that I think of it...absolutely!!
It's difficult to remain civil with dissenting opinions when we're speaking about a topic we are passionate about, and especially so when the opposing party is aggressive and/or demeaning. However, we all grow when we work together. No one benefits from attacking one another.
OctoberT wrote: You refuted her comment with incorrect ones of your own. Makes sense.
Which of my comments were incorrect?
DaisyLane wrote: DP is meant to be a deterrent...
No, it's not. It's supposed to be a punishment.
DaisyLane wrote: blindly labelling everyone on death row as psychopaths, is hilarious. Particularly, coming from someone who clearly lacks empathy or insight.
I didn't "blindly" label anyone. I looked up their arrest records, did you? And yes, I have empathy and insight -- for the victims!
TurtlebCrazy wrote: ... facts, logic and morality to discuss the issue, and dolcevita is isn't interested in any of that.
I disagree.
This conversation has veered completely off course and I'm not going to address it any longer. Again, Bowie made the wrong assertion that Texas posthumously exonerates "a lot of" death penalty victims. Then she starts talking about a stupid girl who maliciously accused three fictitious black men of raping her. No one ended up on death row so I'm not sure what she was trying to prove. No one was actually charged with -- or executed for -- a crime. Yes, as others have pointed out, the US has a disproportionate number of prisoners. I'm not arguing that!
I already knew that it's impossible to voice a dissenting opinion here without being called names (face it, you started it) or being accused of lacking empathy, insight, or morals.
Society has some bad eggs and I don't want them walking the same streets as I do.
Noob iz good at dishing but canna take it.
My comment wasn't meant to be offensive. My point was that there's no reason for others to plead their case when you made it clear that you weren't interested in a discussion, which is fine.
Lord, have mercy!
For the last time, my initial comment was a response to Bowie who said, in another thread, "Texas executes a LOT of people who are later exonerated."
That statement is not true.
I responded with, "They might not be guilty of that crime in particular but they have lengthy and often violent criminal records. Not saying that the punishment fits the crime but it's not like Texas is killing productive members of society"
That statement is true.
I am not "pleading a case" or even discussing the death penalty, which, I agree, is fraught with problems. I am simply responding to ONE BLITHE AND INCORRECT STATEMENT ABOUT THE DEATH PENALTY IN TEXAS.
Noob iz good at dishing but canna take it.
Just because you feel that having a lengthy criminal record makes one an incorrigible psychopath doesn't mean that it's a fact. That's the comment I was referring to.
But we are going round and round at this point. You've made it clear that you have your feelings, as do we.
Also, in regards to Bowie's comment, I'm inclined to agree. We do know that Texas is the ececution capital of the free world, so chances are likely that there is at least a handful that are wrongfully executed for a crime they did not commit. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/exec...-innocent#also lists 8 from Texas. Since this is a matter of life or death, I would personally consider 8 to be a lot. Others are free to disagree with me obviously.
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