Was Sarah Widmer (24) killed by Newlywed Husband?

[Pheara]

[quote author=soultosqueeze link=topic=19147.msg1623012#msg1623012 date=1273801352]
http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/crime/medical-expert-says-drowning-victim-did-not-have-seizuer-704119.html

Just found this news article.  Weird that her body was dry if she supposedly drowned in the tub.  I am looking for the 911 call now.
[/quote]


The 911 call: http://www.wlwt.com/download/2009/0323/18994386.mp3

[AngelineLynn]

In saying the body was dry, was her hair dry also?

[azkarisma]

[quote author=AngelineLynn link=topic=19147.msg1623997#msg1623997 date=1273901053]
In saying the body was dry, was her hair dry also?
[/quote]

I've been reading the live blog of the trial, and every witness so far has said that while her body was dry, her hair was wet.

R.I.P. Sarah.

[poppy213]

Marking my spot.

[portia]

marking.

i'm pretty sure in the 911 recording, he says that he's already drained the tub and has attempted CPR before calling 911. 

my husband flips out on me all the time because i fall asleep in the tub.  i asked him yesterday what he would do if he came in and i was face down in the water, and he said his first reaction would probably be to pull the drain.

[azkarisma]

[quote author=portia link=topic=19147.msg1624107#msg1624107 date=1273921002]
my husband flips out on me all the time because i fall asleep in the tub.  i asked him yesterday what he would do if he came in and i was face down in the water, and he said his first reaction would probably be to pull the drain.
[/quote]

What's interesting is that in the testimony of some of the expert witnesses in the 1st trial, they were saying that the brain's need for oxygen is so great, the will to breathe is so great -- that if you did fall asleep in the tub, as soon as you inhaled water, you would essentially be jolted awake.  If you are a person with normal physical and mental abilities, most people would be able to get their faces up out of the water at that time.

Now this might not be the case if your were under the influence of a central nervous system depressant (some legal/illegal drugs or alcohol), but toxicology reports on Sarah Widmer only showed caffeine in her system.. nothing else.  Also might not be the case if someone/something was holding you down.

There is a theory that Sarah could have had a seizure.  If I remember correctly, there's nothing in her medical records about a seizure disorder, and no one had ever observed her having a seizure.  But a seizure would be another one of those things that might prevent you from being able to get your face up out of the water if you slipped under.

I have another thought in my head about this, but it is very obscure.  I have narcolepsy, which is a sleep disorder.  The brain and body are out of sync, and one wants to sleep when the other does not.  One of the symptoms of narcolepsy is a condition called cataplexy, which is essentially when the brain shuts off the body's muscles -- kind of like sleep paralysis, where people wake up and can't move.  In cataplexy, you're awake when the brain decides to do this.  Very inconvenient.  Cataplexy is terrifying when you don't know what's happening to you, and still scary when you do.

Anyway.. the records show that Sarah took naps during the day at work and her husband claims she had fallen asleep in the tub before.  Excessive daytime sleepiness could be a symptom of narcolepsy (medical records don't show this diagnosis for Sarah).  If she had an episode of cataplexy in the tub, that could have rendered her fully awake but unable to control her own muscles.  One reason I don't take baths anymore.

Of course I could be putting way too much thought into this case in order to avoid doing my laundry..

[nestlequikie]

[quote author=Pheara link=topic=19147.msg1621696#msg1621696 date=1273679138]
Widmer's retrial is today. They are doing the live blog in the courtroom again for anyone interested.

http://livewire.wlwt.com/Event/Ryan_Widmer_Trial_Day_12

Says day 12 on link but that is including the jury selection.
[/quote]

Pheara -  Thanks SO much for posting this again!!   

I would have been bummed if I missed it this time after 'reading through' the last trial.

[TheFavoriteDaughter]

Wow, I just came across this. I feel like the prosecutions evidence is circumstantial. My tub dries within 2 minutes. If he did CPR before calling 911, that could've taken between a couple minutes, than the call was a couple minutes, and than it took 6 minutes to get there. So she could have been out of the tub for like 10 to 15  minutes. And if she was under a fan or air conditioning vent.... That just all seems like common sense to consider all of that. Why didn't they?

Like someone else said, bruising can occur post mortem within a short time frame.
I just don't know if I was on a jury if I could convict beyond a reasonable doubt.

[poppy213]

A couple of things stand out to me.

* She had been complaining to friends/co-workers of feeling ill.
* Bruise on forehead area  (slip in tub and landed face first under spout?  Position he says he found her in.)
* He said he was downstairs watching the pre-game on t.v, police say it was turned off and not on the right channel.

Where is a good psychic when you need them? :lol:

[beli]

Cataplexy. So thats what that scary ass thing is called. Its only happened twice in my life but it scared me so bad.

[Bella]

[quote author=beli link=topic=19147.msg1624404#msg1624404 date=1273967719]
Cataplexy. So thats what that scary ass thing is called. Its only happened twice in my life but it scared me so bad.
[/quote]


Cataplexy can also be present as a side effect of SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome.  :2huh:

[Monter]

[quote author=GothaBella link=topic=19147.msg1624412#msg1624412 date=1273970137]

Cataplexy can also be present as a side effect of SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome.  :2huh:
[/quote]
Very rare- much more so with an older class of antidepressants called tricyclics

[Bella]

[quote author=Monter link=topic=19147.msg1624414#msg1624414 date=1273970412]
Very rare- much more so with an older class of antidepressants called tricyclics
[/quote]

Thank you! I'm having a day here.  :2shocked:

[beli]

Really? I was switching meds around the time.  I think I switch three times in the time period from the first one and second. First happened in 2002 and again later that year. I think I was on zoloft, then prozac, then lexopro. I dont really remember. Are those related to that?

[TheFavoriteDaughter]

Ok, on the watching the sports thing. Maybe he had just changed the channel and turned it off. It's completely possible he forgot he did that once he found her dead.

[azkarisma]

[quote author=beli link=topic=19147.msg1624457#msg1624457 date=1273974306]
Really? I was switching meds around the time.  I think I switch three times in the time period from the first one and second. First happened in 2002 and again later that year. I think I was on zoloft, then prozac, then lexopro. I dont really remember. Are those related to that?
[/quote]

Beli all of those medications are antidepressants in a class called SSRIs.  Cataplexy can appear as a "transient" symptom of SSRI discontinuation syndrome.  ("transient" meaning that it's not a true ongoing medical condition, but it can appear during that time when a person is tapering off their SSRI antidepressants)  For other people it can be a true ongoing medical condition, but that is very rare.

I think what Monter is maybe reading is that in that second case (true ongoing condition) it used to be treated with an older class of antidepressants called tricyclics, but nowadays is treated with SSRIs or SNRIs.

I'm so sorry that you had to experience it, even twice. It's very frightening. I have collapsed on concrete and stairs, fallen face forward at the dinner table in a restaurant, slumped over behind the wheel.. all of that before I was diagnosed. Now I am on an SNRI and very rarely have any episodes.

[Monter]

[quote author=azkarisma link=topic=19147.msg1624574#msg1624574 date=1273987155]
Beli all of those medications are antidepressants in a class called SSRIs.  Cataplexy can appear as a "transient" symptom of SSRI discontinuation syndrome.  ("transient" meaning that it's not a true ongoing medical condition, but it can appear during that time when a person is tapering off their SSRI antidepressants)  For other people it can be a true ongoing medical condition, but that is very rare.

I think what Monter is maybe reading is that in that second case (true ongoing condition) it used to be treated with an older class of antidepressants called tricyclics, but nowadays is treated with SSRIs or SNRIs.

I'm so sorry that you had to experience it, even twice. It's very frightening. I have collapsed on concrete and stairs, fallen face forward at the dinner table in a restaurant, slumped over behind the wheel.. all of that before I was diagnosed. Now I am on an SNRI and very rarely have any episodes.




[/quote]
Here's the journal article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18753005
Exacerbation of cataplexy following gradual withdrawal of antidepressants: manifestation of probable protracted rebound cataplexy.
CONCLUSIONS: Patients gradually withdrawn from antidepressants experienced a significant increase in cataplexy, but eventually returned to their baseline frequency, comparable to previously untreated control patients. Compared to SSRIs, discontinuation from TCAs was associated with a greater increase in cataplexy attacks.

[soultosqueeze]

[quote author=poppy213 link=topic=19147.msg1624396#msg1624396 date=1273966253]
A couple of things stand out to me.

* She had been complaining to friends/co-workers of feeling ill.
* Bruise on forehead area  (slip in tub and landed face first under spout?  Position he says he found her in.)
* He said he was downstairs watching the pre-game on t.v, police say it was turned off and not on the right channel.

Where is a good psychic when you need them? :lol:
[/quote]

Hmm..  If she slipped and fell in the tub, do you think he would hear her fall?  Unless he had the game blasting..  But I think it's weird that they are trying to say she fell asleep in the tub but she was face down.  I know that when I take a tubby, I wouldn't be laying face down.  He wasn't watching the right channel?  did they hit the previous button on the remote?  Sometimes i like to channel surf

[TheFavoriteDaughter]

[quote author=soultosqueeze link=topic=19147.msg1626505#msg1626505 date=1274197834]
Hmm..  If she slipped and fell in the tub, do you think he would hear her fall?  Unless he had the game blasting..  But I think it's weird that they are trying to say she fell asleep in the tub but she was face down.  I know that when I take a tubby, I wouldn't be laying face down.  He wasn't watching the right channel?  did they hit the previous button on the remote?  Sometimes i like to channel surf
[/quote]

Yeah, all this. This all can either be seen as circumstantial or damning.

[nestlequikie]

[quote author=TheFavoriteDaughter link=topic=19147.msg1626541#msg1626541 date=1274199800]
Yeah, all this. This all can either be seen as circumstantial or damning.
[/quote]

Jury is now deliberating!!!

[soultosqueeze]

[quote author=nestlequikie link=topic=19147.msg1633981#msg1633981 date=1274900513]
Jury is now deliberating!!!
[/quote]

ahhh!  keep us posted!   

[azkarisma]

The jury went home at 6:30 pm Eastern tonight, and will be back to deliberations at 9 am tomorrow.

Inside Edition did a story about the trial last night:  http://www.insideedition.com/news/45...-his-wife.aspx

Did Ryan Widmer drown his wife Sarah while she was taking a bath? The newlywed begs for mercy as he stands accused of murdering his pretty wife of just four months.

"I loved my wife. I did not hurt her! If I had an answer, I would give the answer to what happened to her. I can't," said Widmer.

This is what was said in the 911 call he made the night she died.

Ryan Widmer to 911 Operator: "She fell asleep in the bathtub, I think. I was downstairs. I just came up here and she was laying face down in the bathtub."

So did Widmer's wife really fall asleep in the bathtub as he claims in the 911 call?

On part of the tape, Widmer can be heard breathing, as if he's performing mouth-to-mouth on his wife. The problem is, cops say it very much sounds like he's faking it, and just breathing into the phone.

Cops placed Widmer under arrest and charged him with murder.

Exhibit A is the bathtub. It was carried into court for the trial. The tub had black marks from fingerprint dust from the investigation. It also showed ominous streaks prosecutors claim were made by Sarah as she fought for her life.

Reporter Rich Jaffe is covering the trial for WKRC-TV Cincinnatti.

"That's supposed to be the smoking gun here, and it's not," said Rich Jaffe.

Jaffee continued, "The evidence experts cannot testify who made those track when they were made. It could have been any number of people for any number of reasons slid their hands down the bathtub," said Jaffe.

Widmer's attorneys say he had no motive to kill Sarah. Friends testified they were a happy loving couple. Even the lead investigator admits, he could find no motive, stating that they could not verify that Sarah had a boyfriend, or that Ryan had a girlfriend.

"There has never been any testimony about violence between the two of them. About problems. About fear," said Jaffe.

But prosecutors say they found evidence on Widmer's personal computer that he regularly visited a porn website for swingers.

"Ryan was on that web site a number of times, including the weekend before Sarah died," stated prosecutor Rachel Hutzel

Their theory is that Sarah found out, they fought, and he drowned her.

On the witness stand the coroner testified he found bruising on Sarah's neck that indicated she had been strangled.

And what about the husband's claim that his wife drowned after she fell asleep in the bathtub?

The coroner said he researched the claim and could not find a single documented case of that ever happening. He also said Sarah Widmer was healthy and there was no reason why she would suddenly drop dead. He ruled the case a homicide.

This is actually Widmer's 2nd trial. In 2009 He was found guilty of Sarah's murder. That verdict was thrown out after at least jurors admitted testing their own theories in their bathrooms at home.

This time, the bath sits right by the jury box as a new jury decides whether Ryan Widmer is a loving husband or a cold-blooded killer.

[TheFavoriteDaughter]

I still wonder if she fell and hit her head.

[soultosqueeze]

[quote author=TheFavoriteDaughter link=topic=19147.msg1634367#msg1634367 date=1274930346]
I still wonder if she fell and hit her head.
[/quote]

It just seems so unlikely.  I wish I could hear all of the evidence.

[nestlequikie]

[quote author=soultosqueeze link=topic=19147.msg1634582#msg1634582 date=1274970492]
It just seems so unlikely.  I wish I could hear all of the evidence.
[/quote]

The jury is still deliberating!