Julie Mott (25) died from Cystic Fibrosis and her remains were stolen from the funeral home

[marshmallow]

I should clarify. If her family didn't request her jewelry be removed before cremation then it really isn't missing as in 'stolen' missing. I left my Mother's jewelry on when she was cremated. She never went anywhere without the appropriate matching jewelry so I figured she should have it for that trip too. Shirley girl went with her favorite god awful tacky earrings, necklace, and bracelet.

This story's self-made martyr doesn't know the specifics because it was none of his bee's flippin wax. He isn't family or close friend so the family owes him diddly poop in way of explanations or say.

I guess conspiracy is a good enough word to use in terms of a cover up by the funeral home but I still don't think her body was stolen. I don't think the police are being paid off to focus on the dude yelling "me me me look at meeeee" and waving his arms. I think she was taken for cremation and whoever took her to the crematory at the wrong time isn't going to speak up. I just don't see a police + family + creepy funeral home guy all ganging up on the poor innocent long ago boyfriend she had no romantic ties to. To be blunt(er).. he's not that important.

I wonder how often something like this happens. Misplacing or cremating wrongly (?) must happen from time to time.

Ah, thanks Berm. I had read the exact opposite. Maybe what I read was just one crematory's policy.

Also, Bill had made a comment that they hadn't prepped her for cremation or "returned her belongings" to the family, so I guess he thought they would remove the jewelry before cremation.

[morbidT]

OK. I recently came across this case. Heartbroken/bill is a convenient scapegoat for MP Norths lack of security. Here is what isn't being discussed and why there are probably 100 suspects from at least the last 5 years.
Employees; current and past. This includes mortuary students who are required to perform embalming and funeral directing cases at a funeral home to get their license. These particular students have a provisional license which allows them to practice. There is often no expectation that the student will stay at the funeral home after licensing. That's a hand full of people right there who have had access to the funeral home.

Mortuary service employees. Other funeral homes use these as well. As far as mission park, the vast majority of their embalmings (and first calls) are done by various contracted mortuary services who service multiple funeral homes and often have after hours access. These bodies are often delivered overnight when the funeral home is empty. These employees are funeral directors, provisional students, students with no provisional, and people with no funeral education whatsoever but just work as drivers. In 5 years that could be 100 people right there. Or anyone they shared the information with.

Students from the mortuary school. These are students who in their first or second semester are rotated through local funeral home for first hand experience. Potentially a hundred. Considering most wash out.

All of these people would have back door access. As far as mission park north, the embalming room code may be given out to anyone of the aforementioned people so they can get in and out while helping. Well at MP North that same code is also the alarm and code used on all padlocked doors. This is the more likely scenario. Who actually believes someone walked in broad day with a body unseen?

So the reality is this - security at mp north was/is compromised heavily and by not making these details public, and using a scapegoat the funeral home can save face.

I hope this can get linked to the facebook page as I don't use it and the family should know the root cause of this issue instead of being led to a scapegoat.

This makes an excellent point. A perspective that I don't think any of us thought of before.

In this case, when a body is being transported from the funeral home to a crematory owned by that same funeral home (rather than being transported from hospital to morgue or some other location to the morgue), wouldn't a funeral home employee transport the body? I didn't think a funeral home would pay an outside company to move bodies when they already have employees and the proper vehicles with which to do it.

I honestly don't know. I only dealt with pick-ups from my facility (which was hospital based) which were almost always funeral homes. I assumed they were transporting the deceased to their facility for "prep" for cremation or viewing. My facility had an incinerator on the premises, but, I think, it was only used for body donations (when they were done with it), unclaimed bodies (there is a ceremony each year where urns are buried), babies (for parents who could not afford any type of services), and research animals. I don't think it was contracted with any other facility as a "crematorium" where a body would be transported to a funeral home for services and transported back to my facility for cremation and then transported back to the funeral home. Clear as mud? I was only in the pathology department though, so I'm not sure.

From the sounds of rg90's post, people with a van may be contracted to transport from funeral homes to crematoriums and back to the funeral home. I can see this happening. Especially if it is a busy funeral home. It's probably cheaper to "outsource" transportation, particularly in the over night hours, than to pay employees. I'm pretty sure that's why some coroner's offices were doing it until so many screw ups forced them to hire employees to do it.

[bryanwasdrunk]

OK. I recently came across this case. Heartbroken/bill is a convenient scapegoat for MP Norths lack of security. Here is what isn't being discussed and why there are probably 100 suspects from at least the last 5 years.
Employees; current and past. This includes mortuary students who are required to perform embalming and funeral directing cases at a funeral home to get their license. These particular students have a provisional license which allows them to practice. There is often no expectation that the student will stay at the funeral home after licensing. That's a hand full of people right there who have had access to the funeral home.

Mortuary service employees. Other funeral homes use these as well. As far as mission park, the vast majority of their embalmings (and first calls) are done by various contracted mortuary services who service multiple funeral homes and often have after hours access. These bodies are often delivered overnight when the funeral home is empty. These employees are funeral directors, provisional students, students with no provisional, and people with no funeral education whatsoever but just work as drivers. In 5 years that could be 100 people right there. Or anyone they shared the information with.

Students from the mortuary school. These are students who in their first or second semester are rotated through local funeral home for first hand experience. Potentially a hundred. Considering most wash out.

All of these people would have back door access. As far as mission park north, the embalming room code may be given out to anyone of the aforementioned people so they can get in and out while helping. Well at MP North that same code is also the alarm and code used on all padlocked doors. This is the more likely scenario. Who actually believes someone walked in broad day with a body unseen?

So the reality is this - security at mp north was/is compromised heavily and by not making these details public, and using a scapegoat the funeral home can save face.

I hope this can get linked to the facebook page as I don't use it and the family should know the root cause of this issue instead of being led to a scapegoat.

Yeahbut,
the casket was damaged because it was opened without an allen wrench, to me this rules out an honest mistake unless the funeral home intentionally staged a crime scene to shift blame.

[Key West Digger]

Yeahbut,
the casket was damaged because it was opened without an allen wrench, to me this rules out an honest mistake unless the funeral home intentionally staged a crime scene to shift blame.

That isn't entirely true, only 'sealed' caskets require a hex key which are usually metal. Under the EPA guidelines metal caskets cannot be cremated only wood caskets. Wood caskets, especially those used for cremations, have a thumb latches.

[Olivia]

That isn't entirely true, only 'sealed' caskets require a hex key which are usually metal. Under the EPA guidelines metal caskets cannot be cremated only wood caskets. Wood caskets, especially those used for cremations, have a thumb latches.

You should call Dick Tips and find out what the news is, funeral director to funeral director.

[Key West Digger]

You should call Dick Tips and find out what the news is, funeral director to funeral director.

Hahahaha. That would be the shortest conversation I've ever had.

[Boston Babe 73]

Hahahaha. That would be the shortest conversation I've ever had.

[TupeloHoney]

That isn't entirely true, only 'sealed' caskets require a hex key which are usually metal. Under the EPA guidelines metal caskets cannot be cremated only wood caskets. Wood caskets, especially those used for cremations, have a thumb latches.

She was still in a "service coffin." I guess is what you call it ... one that is used over and over during funerals for those who are to be cremated, and then the deceased is moved to a different coffin for cremation?

[Key West Digger]

She was still in a "service coffin." I guess is what you call it ... one that is used over and over during funerals for those who are to be cremated, and then the deceased is moved to a different coffin for cremation?

This is a ceremonial/rental casket. It's a wood casket exterior with a cremation insert container (which also creates the interior dressing) that is removed after the viewing.

[TupeloHoney]

This is a ceremonial/rental casket. It's a wood casket exterior with a cremation insert container (which also creates the interior dressing) that is removed after the viewing.

With that side door on there, wouldn't it be easier to remove a body from one of those caskets than a regular burial casket? Is the insert container pretty sturdy?

[retortman]

I have experience as a crematory operator and I can shed some light on confusion here. The casket Tupelohoney linkeed is a temporary casket. One or more ends is made to open so that an insert, in which the deceased is placed can be removed. This insert is part of the cremation container, only missing the lid. It is made of cardboard, or plywood (or a mixture of both). It's called a cremation tray, and yes it's made to support the same weight the casket can. Also, METAL jewelry is NOT cremated. Typically metal objects are undesirable to cremate period. Superficial metal medical devices and for sure radioactive metal devices are removed. Implants, iv lines even and other internal implants are not. Precious metals such as those used in jewelry (gold/silver)will melt in the retort (cremation machine), usually around 1000 deg f. They then become part of the retorts "refractory" brick liner, which costs literally tens of thousands of dollars to replace. Molten metal has a cooling effect on the brick which encourages cracking. This lining cracks/degrades with use anyways so a crematory is very particular to protecting it's investment.
There are only TWO legitimate options for metal jewelry and cremation -- One is to remove the jewelry prior to cremation, and give it back to the family, or place the jewelry with/in the cremated remains. The other very rare (at least for real jewelry) option is to have the jewelry "destroyed" i.e we don't want it back. Many times it's recommended to place "costume" jewelry with the deceased in order to avoid accidents/incidents with the real jewelry.

Don't let anyone tell you your loved ones precious metals will be "burned" with them.. a retort operates at 1500-2000 deg F; not near enough to "burn" any metal you would find on ones person. Either ask for it back/with the cremains or tell them to keep it (destroy).

Also, bodies CAN be cremated in metal, typically steel caskets with the top removed, although it's highly undesirable as it ties up the retort for a day; you can't remove it until it's cooled all the way off as any metal in the retort get's red hot.

The jewelry is either with a family affiliate, a funeral home employee, or the individual(s) responsible for the missing body. But that seems to be the least concern right now...

[morbidT]

That isn't entirely true, only 'sealed' caskets require a hex key which are usually metal. Under the EPA guidelines metal caskets cannot be cremated only wood caskets. Wood caskets, especially those used for cremations, have a thumb latches.

This is good info!

I have experience as a crematory operator and I can shed some light on confusion here. The casket Tupelohoney linkeed is a temporary casket. One or more ends is made to open so that an insert, in which the deceased is placed can be removed. This insert is part of the cremation container, only missing the lid. It is made of cardboard, or plywood (or a mixture of both). It's called a cremation tray, and yes it's made to support the same weight the casket can. Also, METAL jewelry is NOT cremated. Typically metal objects are undesirable to cremate period. Superficial metal medical devices and for sure radioactive metal devices are removed. Implants, iv lines even and other internal implants are not. Precious metals such as those used in jewelry (gold/silver)will melt in the retort (cremation machine), usually around 1000 deg f. They then become part of the retorts "refractory" brick liner, which costs literally tens of thousands of dollars to replace. Molten metal has a cooling effect on the brick which encourages cracking. This lining cracks/degrades with use anyways so a crematory is very particular to protecting it's investment.
There are only TWO legitimate options for metal jewelry and cremation -- One is to remove the jewelry prior to cremation, and give it back to the family, or place the jewelry with/in the cremated remains. The other very rare (at least for real jewelry) option is to have the jewelry "destroyed" i.e we don't want it back. Many times it's recommended to place "costume" jewelry with the deceased in order to avoid accidents/incidents with the real jewelry.

Don't let anyone tell you your loved ones precious metals will be "burned" with them.. a retort operates at 1500-2000 deg F; not near enough to "burn" any metal you would find on ones person. Either ask for it back/with the cremains or tell them to keep it (destroy).

Also, bodies CAN be cremated in metal, typically steel caskets with the top removed, although it's highly undesirable as it ties up the retort for a day; you can't remove it until it's cooled all the way off as any metal in the retort get's red hot.

The jewelry is either with a family affiliate, a funeral home employee, or the individual(s) responsible for the missing body. But that seems to be the least concern right now...

This is also good info!





****

Also, if the reusable casket shell thingy has been used previously, it is possible it was damaged PRIOR to Julie being placed in it and only found once her body was lost/missing.

[TupeloHoney]

Also, if the reusable casket shell thingy has been used previously, it is possible it was damaged PRIOR to Julie being placed in it and only found once her body was lost/missing.

I'm under the impression that the casket was damaged badly enough that it would have been obvious if it were already damaged during the service.

I have experience as a crematory operator and I can shed some light on confusion here. The casket Tupelohoney linkeed is a temporary casket. One or more ends is made to open so that an insert, in which the deceased is placed can be removed. This insert is part of the cremation container, only missing the lid. It is made of cardboard, or plywood (or a mixture of both). It's called a cremation tray, and yes it's made to support the same weight the casket can. Also, METAL jewelry is NOT cremated. Typically metal objects are undesirable to cremate period. Superficial metal medical devices and for sure radioactive metal devices are removed. Implants, iv lines even and other internal implants are not. Precious metals such as those used in jewelry (gold/silver)will melt in the retort (cremation machine), usually around 1000 deg f. They then become part of the retorts "refractory" brick liner, which costs literally tens of thousands of dollars to replace. Molten metal has a cooling effect on the brick which encourages cracking. This lining cracks/degrades with use anyways so a crematory is very particular to protecting it's investment.
There are only TWO legitimate options for metal jewelry and cremation -- One is to remove the jewelry prior to cremation, and give it back to the family, or place the jewelry with/in the cremated remains. The other very rare (at least for real jewelry) option is to have the jewelry "destroyed" i.e we don't want it back. Many times it's recommended to place "costume" jewelry with the deceased in order to avoid accidents/incidents with the real jewelry.

Don't let anyone tell you your loved ones precious metals will be "burned" with them.. a retort operates at 1500-2000 deg F; not near enough to "burn" any metal you would find on ones person. Either ask for it back/with the cremains or tell them to keep it (destroy).

Also, bodies CAN be cremated in metal, typically steel caskets with the top removed, although it's highly undesirable as it ties up the retort for a day; you can't remove it until it's cooled all the way off as any metal in the retort get's red hot.

The jewelry is either with a family affiliate, a funeral home employee, or the individual(s) responsible for the missing body. But that seems to be the least concern right now...

Welcome, and thanks for chiming in!

I agree that the jewelry is the least of their concerns now. I think Julie's brother said it was inexpensive jewelry, likely for the reason you mentioned ... avoiding accidental loss of valuable or sentimental jewelry.

I mentioned the jewelry because a certain "obsessed man" has been quite fixated on it, repeatedly telling us she hadn't been prepped for cremation (and her belongings not returned to the family) when the body disappeared. There's only one way he could possibly know that, seems to me.









I still don't think this was an "accidental" cremation. I just can't understand why the funeral home would go through so much trouble to cover up something like that. It's not like they cremated someone who wasn't supposed to be cremated. I'm sure the family would be upset if there was a mix-up and her cremains were lost or misplaced, but it seems it would be a lot easier for the funeral home to admit that to the family immediately rather than letting this turn into an international news story. It wouldn't even had made the local paper.

Only about 24 hours passed between the funeral and the time she was reported missing ... if she were cremated within that short window of time, the funeral home/crematory knows it ... and not just the person who transported her. The person who operates the cremation chamber would surely know, too.

I also believe Jon when he says, due to the logistics of it all, they know it was not an accidental or early cremation. The family has no agenda to protect the funeral home's reputation, and I think if they thought there was even a small chance that's what happened, they would say so.

Just my very humble opinion, as always.

[BeachGirl]

It seems that the only mistake the funeral home could've made w Julie's cremation, is perhaps cremating her too early. But even then, it would've only been one day early. Even if they had, or if somehow they had cremated 2 people on the same day and then couldn't remember which ashes belonged to which person, they could've just put the undetermined ashes into separate urns and given them out and the families weren't going to inspect the ashes to see if they were really Julie. Another question I have, is that isn't the clothing removed before they do cremation? Wouldn't someone have removed her clothing first? It seems impossible that someone could have accidently cremated her in an improper fashion. I'm sure that young people's remains are more difficult for morticians and such to deal with, because they still have youth and beauty and its obvious they haven't lived a full life before passing. Whoever would've dealt w her remains would have done it very consciously. Do we have the details of how badly her casket was damaged? Also, the question has been asked, how could someone have stolen her in broad day light? I don't think she was stolen in broad daylight. The funeral home seems to think the crime occurred between 130 and 430, but couldn't someone have slipped in through one of the very many doors and hidden some where and waited for the last staff to leave and then snuck her out much later, when it was dark out?

[retortman]

Those caskets have hex key locks on them as well... That being said in my experience those locks are not used very often until actual transport or a closed casket service. They aren't always in the best condition either. As long as they are presentable if something is mechanically improper it will probably slide. Clothing is not removed unless all or some is specifically requested to be removed by the family, and many things that might go into the casket at a service can be cremated as well.
According to rg90 the funeral home is serviced by a mortuary service. These are usually 24/7 outfits contracted out to allow the funeral home staff to focus on selling services and conducting services, instead of having to step out of the office to do pickups, embalming's, etc. A timeframe of 130-430 was given, but really the time frame is from 130 to whenever the first employee returned to work.

[BeachGirl]

Still, any mess up from the funeral home, could've easily been covered up. All they had to do was get some ashes from somewhere, put them in an urn and no one would've been the wiser. The home has gotten negative publicity from all of this and has probably lost business. I know I would never consider using them, regardless of who is to blame for her body being missing. But, what I'm saying is, I don't think the funeral home specifically misplaced Julie. It does seem that she was stolen. Now, its still the responsibility of the home to have better security, and to have prevented her from being stolen in the first place, but still, the funeral home has not gained from any of this publicity. They would have gained from covering this up if it had been their specific mistake. I do think the SAPD and other investigators should have been able to solve this by now.

[strozzapreti]

I still don't think this was an "accidental" cremation. I just can't understand why the funeral home would go through so much trouble to cover up something like that. It's not like they cremated someone who wasn't supposed to be cremated. I'm sure the family would be upset if there was a mix-up and her cremains were lost or misplaced, but it seems it would be a lot easier for the funeral home to admit that to the family immediately rather than letting this turn into an international news story. It wouldn't even had made the local paper.

This. So much. That's exactly why I think that it's not an accident or mix-up with the funeral home. It doesn't make sense for them to continue to cover it up. Losing a body is far worse for their reputation than cremating someone a day earlier than planned and/or losing the cremains. If you remove that as an option, the only other possibilities are that either an employee, a random opportunist, or heartbroken took her. I think in all probability that the person who actually knew her and has demonstrated their mental health issues quite extensively in here, as well as their anger at/issues with basically anyone in her life that was not them, has far more motive and is far more likely to have done in than the others.

There is only one thing that makes me doubt whether or not he did it, and that is the question of his intellectual capability to carry it all out. The funny thing is, that if he had planned it in advance, I don't think there is any way he could have gotten away with it. He would have given himself away and made mistakes. I think it was a spur of the moment decision based on chance opportunity, and that it's only pure luck that he didn't get caught in the act or leave more evidence behind. I also think his ego won't let him just let it go if he did do it. I think as much as he doesn't want to get caught or be punished, he also needs everyone else to know that he did it, because it makes him feel superior, and he wants them to know he "won" whatever contest he has going on in his head over who loved Julie the most. So, he won't come out and admit that he did it or return her, but he also wants to remain on the radar as a suspect, because otherwise he won't feel like he won. They have to know, or at least suspect, so he can feel superior for actually pulling it off and not getting caught.

[Megarama]

One would think she'd be smelling a bit ripe by now...

[morbidT]

I think it's possible there's more going on with the funeral than we know. Someone here posted court records involving the funeral home and it's not a pretty track record. I think it's possible their operations procedures has some major flaws (they obviously can't keep a body secure). There's other articles on this site in regards to funeral homes that have been busted for charging families for cremation and burials only to throw the bodies in a pile "out back." The professional organization(s) that license funeral homes should be performing a very meticulous audit of their procedures. Law Enforcement wouldn't necessarily be aware of funeral home procedures.

I don't think the funeral home meant for it to become a sensational story. Someone noticed Julie's body was "gone" and flipped a lid. It's like someone yelled "FIRE" and everyone started scrambling yelling "FIRE" only to find out someone was just smoking a cigarette, but it was too late. By then everyone thinks there was an actual fire. I think the potential cover-up comes from the funeral home not following procedures set forth by their licensing board and they are doing everything possible not to be caught.

I'm really 50/50 on whether or not it was a body snatcher or the funeral home did something with the body. Although, I believe 100% the funeral home is responsible because the body went "missing" under their watch.

[strmmrgrrl]

I'm really 50/50 on whether or not it was a body snatcher or the funeral home did something with the body. Although, I believe 100% the funeral home is responsible because the body went "missing" under their watch.

And THIS is what I've think people have lost sight of. As much of a tool bag her ex may be, I think people's emotions are clouding their judgement. Even if he DID take her body, the funeral home is still responsible in some respect. This is a funeral, not a parking garage. You don't get to hang a sign that says "We're not responsible for lost personal items" when those "personal items" is your deceased family member

[strozzapreti]

And THIS is what I've think people have lost sight of. As much of a tool bag her ex may be, I think people's emotions are clouding their judgement. Even if he DID take her body, the funeral home is still responsible in some respect. This is a funeral, not a parking garage. You don't get to hang a sign that says "We're not responsible for lost personal items" when those "personal items" is your deceased family member

I don't think people have lost sight of that at all. I am too lazy to go back and read through the posts, but I'm positive that I, and most of the other people who suspect he could have possibly taken her, have all acknowledged that the funeral home is still at fault in some way.

[strmmrgrrl]

I don't think people have lost sight of that at all. I am too lazy to go back and read through the posts, but I'm positive that I, and most of the other people who suspect he could have possibly taken her, have all acknowledged that the funeral home is still at fault in some way.

For the most part but it isn't always mentioned. However I think her family has completely exonerated the Funeral Home when they should be held accountable no matter what you believe. And I truly feel for them, I do. But even if they truly believe that asshole took her, why are they not pissed with the FH for being so lax that he was given the opportunity.

[Boston Babe 73]

I think it's possible there's more going on with the funeral than we know. Someone here posted court records involving the funeral home and it's not a pretty track record. I think it's possible their operations procedures has some major flaws (they obviously can't keep a body secure). There's other articles on this site in regards to funeral homes that have been busted for charging families for cremation and burials only to throw the bodies in a pile "out back." The professional organization(s) that license funeral homes should be performing a very meticulous audit of their procedures. Law Enforcement wouldn't necessarily be aware of funeral home procedures.

I don't think the funeral home meant for it to become a sensational story. Someone noticed Julie's body was "gone" and flipped a lid. It's like someone yelled "FIRE" and everyone started scrambling yelling "FIRE" only to find out someone was just smoking a cigarette, but it was too late. By then everyone thinks there was an actual fire. I think the potential cover-up comes from the funeral home not following procedures set forth by their licensing board and they are doing everything possible not to be caught.

I'm really 50/50 on whether or not it was a body snatcher or the funeral home did something with the body. Although, I believe 100% the funeral home is responsible because the body went "missing" under their watch.

Ol Tips' motto, "The deceased never leaves our care".

Shouldn't that go without saying? Unless you feel the need to say that because you suck at it

[emylou]

Ol Tips' motto, "The deceased never leaves our care".

Shouldn't that go without saying? Unless you feel the need to say that because you suck at it

yeah that's right! He's not running a freaking day care centre.
If the funeral home can't find little Bobby Jr he definitely ain't outside playing on the monkey bars.

[TupeloHoney]

I'm in a mad rush, so I'm not gonna mess with a big multi-quote. I'm also still loaded up on cold meds, but I will do my best to be at least slightly coherent.

A few things:

Julie's brother said the family regrets using the funeral home. And, judging by a conversation between Jon and Bill and this thread, unpleasant words were exchanged between Dick Tips and the family at one of the searches. So I don't think it's safe to assume everything is hunky-dory between them. But it seems the family is satisfied with evidence collected by police that shows this was not an accidental/early cremation.

I think most people here agree the funeral home is responsible for not keeping their building and its contents secure, but we still want to figure out what happened as a result of that.



The lawsuits: Berm gave a really good explanation for what some of that stuff likely means. Bill gave no explanation, he just wanted to shock everyone with the volume of it. "Look at all these lawsuits, ERMAHGERD!"

But it's funny ... he offered no explanation for what any of it meant. Notice he didn't say, "OMG look how many times they've lost bodies or misplaced cremains!" Or, "Look at all the accidental cremations!" I wonder why that is, haha.



Crematory laws all over the country have changed drastically since the Tri-State Crematory insanity. It's been mentioned a few times in this thread, but it is a very extreme case unlike anything else that's ever happened. I don't think it's a good comparison here. Ray Brent Marsh is a very disturbed individual (he claims he has mercury poisoning from the crematory, I dunno).



As far as the funeral home having a knee-jerk reaction to the missing body and immediately reporting her missing ... the police didn't announce to the public for three or four days that Julie's body was missing from the funeral home. So even if the funeral home had a knee-jerk reaction, I'm comfortable saying the police did not.


That's all for now :)