Jahi McMath (13) died for real five years after she was declared brain dead following surgery complications

[kevansvault]

Will she actually decompose while she is still hooked up or actually start to breakdown?? That thought horrifies me!

As long as she's breathing she will not decompose. She can, however, develop pressure sores from the pressure on dependent parts of her body (legs, arms, shoulders, back) and those areas may get infected and stink to high heaven. This family is so horribly ignorant of their loved one's condition, it's disgusting. Seriously. Yes, miracles happen. But given the circumstances that led to how Jahi got this way, the likelihood is nonexistent. We're talking like 0.000001%

I read earlier in this thread that while she was in the hospital, they didn't refer to her by her name? That they called her "the cadaver" or whatever? I'd chew the shit out of any staff member...even my own coworkers...who ever dared do that. While someone is in your care it is your job to do exactly that: CARE. Not using a patient's name and calling someone "the organ donor in 2, or the cadaver in 349 should automatically get you kicked in your fucking teeth if you are anywhere that someone can overhear you.


As far as how she ended up in that state, let me be clear: I would sue the holy fucking piss out of the doctor/dentist/hospital where that happened to my child. This never should have happened, period. Having worked with sedated patients for almost 20 years, this is so goddamn easily preventable and that should scare you. A $200 piece of equipment that those of us in EMS have been using since the 1980s was all that was needed to keep this from happening - a pulse oximeter. It shows the amount of oxygen present on the red blood cell and when the saturation becomes too low (below 90% in most normal people) then you can apply supplemental oxygen or begin to assist their respirations with a BVM (bag/valve mask).

[White trash bitchy blonde]

The court docs referred to the child as 'the body'. They used her name in the beginning of course of the docs but then said things like 'the body has to be transported' etc.

While I would have had a hard time with that wording also, I think they are trying to make them understand that this child is deceased and not alive. Im sure it's not easy to her but they are very in denial.

[Boston Babe 73]

Bodies of the brain-dead have been maintained on respirators for months or, in rare cases, years. However, once cessation of all brain activity is confirmed, there is no recovery, Rebecca S. Dresser, professor of law and ethics in medicine at Washington University in St. Louis,*told The Times.

Dresser also served on a presidential bioethics council that in 2008 reaffirmed "whole-brain death" as legal death.Brain cells die without blood flow and*autopsies in such cases*have shown the brain liquefies.*In the court declaration filed by Flori, she said any measures to help Jahi will only slow post-mortem deterioration. Jahi's body is also unable to regulate her temperature and "blankets are needed to maintain a temperature of greater than 35 degrees Celsius (95 degrees Fahrenheit).""The additional medical interventions Petitioner proposes are unprecedented. They simply will not bring her back to life nor enable others to do so," according to the declaration.
http://touch.latimes.com/#story/la-m...ting-20140108/

[*crickets*]

It's gone beyond creepy to horrifying. I keep picturing her semi-decomposed body suddenly lurching to life like in the old Frankenstein movies, sitting bolt upright in bed, then shuffling aimlessly around like the zombies in TWD.

The liquified brain is what really gets to me. Blerghhh.

[neenerneener]

As long as she's breathing she will not decompose. She can, however, develop pressure sores from the pressure on dependent parts of her body (legs, arms, shoulders, back) and those areas may get infected and stink to high heaven. This family is so horribly ignorant of their loved one's condition, it's disgusting. Seriously. Yes, miracles happen. But given the circumstances that led to how Jahi got this way, the likelihood is nonexistent. We're talking like 0.000001%

I read earlier in this thread that while she was in the hospital, they didn't refer to her by her name? That they called her "the cadaver" or whatever? I'd chew the shit out of any staff member...even my own coworkers...who ever dared do that. While someone is in your care it is your job to do exactly that: CARE. Not using a patient's name and calling someone "the organ donor in 2, or the cadaver in 349 should automatically get you kicked in your fucking teeth if you are anywhere that someone can overhear you.


As far as how she ended up in that state, let me be clear: I would sue the holy fucking piss out of the doctor/dentist/hospital where that happened to my child. This never should have happened, period. Having worked with sedated patients for almost 20 years, this is so goddamn easily preventable and that should scare you. A $200 piece of equipment that those of us in EMS have been using since the 1980s was all that was needed to keep this from happening - a pulse oximeter. It shows the amount of oxygen present on the red blood cell and when the saturation becomes too low (below 90% in most normal people) then you can apply supplemental oxygen or begin to assist their respirations with a BVM (bag/valve mask).

the problem was that she was hemorrhaging. she was bleeding out so there was no blood to take oxygen to her brain. and I'm sure she had a pulse ox on right after surgery. come on now.

I agree with you about the way they were referring to her as *the body* all the time in front of the family. very rude. even though she's dead, still rude.

[gypsy1197]

My heart goes out to Jahi, even if it is just the shell of her. Brain dead is dead. I know it's hard to "pull the plug" on a loved one, but please. Stop the foolishness.

If someone has had throat surgery, do you really think they would want to eat solid food? No, I don't think so. I don't know what actually happened to cause her to bleed like that, but it happened. Botched surgery? Maybe. Maybe not. We'll never know.

For the sake of the little girl, let her go. Anything from here on out is only going to be really really difficult to watch. God bless Jahi and her family.

[emmieslost]

the problem was that she was hemorrhaging. she was bleeding out so there was no blood to take oxygen to her brain. and I'm sure she had a pulse ox on right after surgery. come on now.

I agree with you about the way they were referring to her as *the body* all the time in front of the family. very rude. even though she's dead, still rude.

i'm sure someone put a pulseoximeter on her a minimum of every shift change at the hospital. i wonder what her vitals signs are.

[*crickets*]

She was in the PICU when this happened, so she had continuous pulse oximetry.

[White trash bitchy blonde]

What happens when your brain liquifies? Does your skull kind of sink in? Does fluid seep thru the ears or nose or whatever?



Ewww.

[White trash bitchy blonde]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefactive_necrosis

Again.....ewwwwwww.

[bete noire]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefactive_necrosis

Again.....ewwwwwww.

Well, I learned something new today - that I'd rather not know. Yikes.

Using the ventilator, how long can a dead person be kept "alive"? Weeks, months, (God forbid) years!?

[Boston Babe 73]

Here's a creepy thought. What if her heart already stopped and they kept a charade up to collect more money? They DID say that she had deteriorated badly and couldn't do the surgeries and then days later they were able to? They have her in an undisclosed location and won't release photos of her. Meanwhile she's been mummified and being kept in an attic somewhere......

Sorry....just my "movie plot" mind running away with me.

[dream]

*SIGH* Everytime I see the thread, I expect news of her "passing".

[Feetprints]

*SIGH* Everytime I see the thread, I expect news of her "passing".

Same here. And thanks for that link, Vern. Really helps with my diet.

[puzzld]

For weeks, the nation has watched as the family of Jahi McMath, the girl declared brain dead after a routine tonsillectomy at Children's Hospital and Research Center Oakland, begged to have her remain on life support. A few days ago, she was finally moved to a new facility.

While tragic for the McMath family, there's another tragedy in this story and that's the negative publicity for Children's Hospital and Research Center Oakland, a place my family and I have come to know too well. As the mother of a developmentally delayed child, I've spent more time than I'd like within the walls of that hospital.

Imagine taking your 1-year-old to the pediatrician for a flu shot and leaving with the news that his head size had jumped so significantly there is suspicion of a brain tumor. That's what happened to me. Shocked and terrified at what lay ahead, I scheduled an MRI for my son a week later at Children's Hospital and Research Center Oakland. It was the longest week imaginable. I cried when the kids went to bed, I Googled incessantly-- I basically spent seven days barely going through the motions of daily life.

On the day of the MRI my husband and I took our fasting and grouchy son to Children's Hospital. Although he had a cold the week prior and was already much better, he was deemed too congested to be safely placed under anesthesia. While grateful for the caution of the staff, I was devastated. I didn't want to wait any longer to find out if our son had a brain tumor.

The strain of the wait had taken its toll, and as I dissolved into a puddle and my husband sat with his head in his hands, we were given another option. If he did truly have a brain tumor, the staff wanted to move quickly. While it wouldn't be a complete scan, they offered us the choice to place him in the MRI tube awake with me on top holding him down. We would not be able to see every detail, but if a mass was there, it would be detected. We still would have to return for the complete scan, but the hospital staff was providing us knowledge and empathy. At that moment, that was a huge gift to our family.

Minutes later, my wide-awake son was restrained and strapped onto a wooden board. With a cage over his face, they attached an angled mirror to it so his eyes could meet mine during the procedure. As I started to cry, the nurses surrounding the MRI machine hugged me and told me to be strong, that he needed to look at me to stay calm, then they slid us both into a pediatric-sized MRI tube.

It was loud. And tight. His sobbing eyes locked onto mine for six minutes as I lay over him and tried to smile. I told him everything was going to be OK.

By the time the restraints were removed, the doctors already were telling us that while we needed to come back to be 100 percent certain, his initial scan was clear. The staff at Children's Hospital and Research Center Oakland took care of our son, and our family.

When you have a child who may be sick, there is a certain strength you find within yourself. You experience sights and sounds that will be imprinted in your memory forever. As a resident of Oakland, many of these occurrences have happened to me at this hospital.

I've sat and listened to the sound of an MRI machine beep for over an hour as it takes photos of my son's brain while sitting alongside the parents of a seventeen-year-old waiting to see how far his cancer had spread. I've waited for my son to come out of surgery while watching a little girl who had come in to get the port in her heart checked play.

I sang along with tears in my eyes as four nurses, a surgeon and an anesthesiologist all wearing surgical masks sang "Row, Row, Row Your Boat" in an effort to comfort my son as he fought and squirmed against being put under before a surgery.

I've been brought juice boxes and crackers and Kleenex by nurses just coming by to check on me as I wait for test results.

I've sat next to hospital beds in recovery rooms waiting for my son to wake up as nurses pile my bag with hand-knit hats, homemade pillowcases and stuffed animals to take home with me.

When a scheduling nurse felt our surgery time was too late and too long for an infant to fast, my son was bumped to the top of the schedule -- not because I asked, but because a thoughtful nurse thought it was best.

The people who work in this hospital are angels and heroes to many, many families like mine. Children's Hospital and Research Center in Oakland distributed 139 million dollars of charity care and benefits in 2012. Seventy-five percent of the pediatricians working at the hospital are on the "Best Doctors in America" list. Lives are literally being saved every day at this hospital.

As Jahi McMath's family tweets about being "free" from Children's Hospital and Research Center Oakland, the hospital and it's staff is bound by laws, forced to stay silent as a smear campaign and likely a lawsuit ensues.

The story of what happened to Jahi is unimaginable and devastating. However there are countless positive stories unfolding in that hospital every day, just as it's been for the past 100 years. That shouldn't be forgotten, regardless of any tweets or statements a lawyyer makes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/todays...b_4568882.html

[TupeloHoney]

The article below includes some cute pics of Jahi with her friends, which is nice ... but the rest of it just makes me really sad.

When I was 12, two girls I had been friends with my whole life, both 14, were in car accident on the way home from our church youth group ice skating party. Both were severely injured -- one far worse than the other.

When we went to visit them in the hospital, nobody told me I was there to say goodbye to one of them. A couple of days later when they took her off the ventilator, I was devastated, and I felt betrayed that my parents weren't more honest with me about the situation (especially when my 15-year-old sister told me she had known the truth). In retrospect, I know they meant no harm but just weren't sure how to handle it.

But I can't believe this school is encouraging these kids to choose "spirituality over science." Regardless of the fact most of the students are Christian -- being spiritual doesn't mean you ignore science! I don't expect them to explain it to the little bitty ones ... but the kids Jahi's age? Her girlfriends? I just feel so much pain for them knowing how they're going to feel when their fantasy of Jahi "coming back" crumbles to pieces.



(Video of Jahi's little brother and one of her friends at the link.)

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local...239629891.html

Friends Believe Jahi McMath, "Quiet Leader," is Alive

(Jan. 10, 2014) Though a death certificate has been issued for Jahi McMath, many of the 13-year-old Oakland girl's classmates still believe the "quiet leader" who laughed at jokes that weren't funny will one day return to school -- if they just pray hard enough.

"The school told us that she's not officially dead yet," said Dymond Allen, one of Jahi's friends at EC Reems Academy of Technology and Arts in East Oakland. "And we should keep her in our prayers. I still hope. And God has the last say-so."

The academy's chief operating officer Lisa Blair said she has tried to honor Jahi's family's wishes by telling students that their classmate may still be alive, even though doctors say she is legally and clinically dead.
The students responded with an outpouring of faith.

"Most kids are Christian here," Blair said, "and they believe that if you continue praying, there's always a possibility. The students understand the debate. They're just choosing spirituality over science."

Blair visited Children's Hospital Oakland on Jan. 5, just after Jahi's family won a court battle to keep the girl on life support and transfer her elsewhere. Blair said she "saw something? on that visit that made her believe Jahi, a quiet student who was recently elected to be a judge on student council, was not truly dead.

On Thursday, about 250 of Blair's students donned purple T-shirts emblazoned with the words "#TeamJahi" and "Keep Calm, Pray On."

Parents were given the opportunity to have their child "opt out" of the event, but the vast majority did not, because most of them know her, Blair added.

Jahi has been part of the school's "extended" family for more than a decade. Jahi's older sister, Jabria Milsap, now 20, graduated in 2009 as valedictorian. Her brother, Jose Llamas, is now in fourth grade at the school. Jahi's younger sister, Jordyn Johnson, is in kindergarten.

Jahi's case has ignited a furious national debate about patient rights and the definition of "brain death," which is considered "true death" by state law.

She was declared brain dead Dec. 12, three days after suffering complications from surgery to help her sleep apnea. Her mother, Latasha "Nailah" Winkfield, said she believes in God and that as long as her daughter's heart is beating -- even if it is with the aid of a machine -- then Jahi is alive.

Her family fought for the right to keep her on life support, and was eventually allowed to move Jahi to an undisclosed Catholic facility that the coroner's spokesman said is "out of state."

The family's attorney says she is now receiving nutrition through tubes, despite medical testimony filed (PDF) in court that most of Jahi's bodily functions have ceased.

Bioethicists, scientists, lawyers, doctors, religious leaders and others continue to argue the legal, medical and ethical aspects of her condition.

The ongoing debate prompted Blair to help her pupils discuss opposing perspectives.

The point was "to teach students to make informed decisions, to debate the scientific and social perspectives," Blair explained.

One parent, who asked not to be identified, said that while her daughters both believe that Jahi might recover, she is a "realist" who, if she bases "everything on science," believes that "Jahi has passed on."

Still, she acknowledged that it's very hard telling her daughters that, and because she, too, is spiritual and believes "in the power of prayer" And that those prayers might just "turn this around for the good and Jahi will be back with her family and friends."

As Jahi's friends pray, they are trying to bring back a girl who dreamed of becoming a cheerleader but was a quiet sort of leader. She was recently appointed as student government poll, and often helped her friends without attracting a lot of attention.

Jose, Jahi's 10-year-old brother, said his sister "did everything for me."

"She washed my plate. She washed my clothes," he said.

Another good friend, Quiela Temple, said Jahi "laughed a lot, making others laugh more ... even when the joke wasn't funny."

Quiela and her sister, Quianni, were among a few friends Jahi invited to the Santa Cruz Boardwalk and a hotel sleepover in October, when she celebrated her 13th birthday.

Jahi's friends hope that if they pray hard enough she'll get to celebrate her 14th.

"I don't think she passed away," Dymond said. "I just hope my friend gets better and comes back to school."

[puzzld]

What an excellent way to destroy a child's faith in God.

I can't even. Pray that God holds Jahi in his hand and relieve her suffering if you like, but this?

[dianalyn]

Ok I have a question that I hope someone can answer Her body is being kept alive by machines, something is pumping her heart, pushing her lungs go in and out but I do not understand how they can give her nutrition? Even if you give her nutrients through an IV, don't you need the brain to tell those where to go? I hope it is not a dumb question but the mechanics of this and WHY they would want to do this to their child is awful

[Boston Babe 73]

But I can't believe this school is encouraging these kids to choose "spirituality over science." Regardless of the fact most of the students are Christian -- being spiritual doesn't mean you ignore science! I don't expect them to explain it to the little bitty ones ... but the kids Jahi's age? Her girlfriends? I just feel so much pain for them knowing how they're going to feel when their fantasy of Jahi "coming back" crumbles to pieces

Okay..to each their own. But you know what totally blows my mind about these schools that teach creation over science? That they're using technology created by science to do it. While kids are on their smart phones and go home to their XBox. I guess they deny science only when it's convenient.....

[neenerneener]

This catholic organization believes that she is dead: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local...239314591.html

even the Vatican recognizes science and brain death as being valid. dafuq is wrong with Jahi family?

[TupeloHoney]

What an excellent way to destroy a child's faith in God.

I can't even. Pray that God holds Jahi in his hand and relieve her suffering if you like, but this?

I was born and raised in the Bible Belt, and I can't imagine something like this going on at any of the schools I attended. Seriously.

(BTW I couldn't rep you for posting that editorial from the mom about the hospital. The story about the doctors singing to the little boy brought tears to my eyes.)

Ok I have a question that I hope someone can answer Her body is being kept alive by machines, something is pumping her heart, pushing her lungs go in and out but I do not understand how they can give her nutrition? Even if you give her nutrients through an IV, don't you need the brain to tell those where to go? I hope it is not a dumb question but the mechanics of this and WHY they would want to do this to their child is awful

I have zero medical expertise, so I'm probably not the best person to answer this, but I can't imagine that her digestive system is functioning after reading that report about the gut sloughing and all that. People with more knowledge than I have said on other sites that the stuff she gets through the feeding tube will either just go "straight through her" or just blow her up (not literally).

Okay..to each their own. But you know what totally blows my mind about these schools that teach creation over science? That they're using technology created by science to do it. While kids are on their smart phones and go home to their XBox. I guess they deny science only when it's convenient.....

I'm confused (not that it's your fault). Do you mean Jahi's school? It's not a Christian school, it's a public charter school: http://ecreemsacademy.org/m/content.cfm?subpage=234927

[Boston Babe 73]

I'm confused (not that it's your fault). Do you mean Jahi's school? It's not a Christian school, it's a public charter school: http://ecreemsacademy.org/m/content.cfm?subpage=234927

No, not her school in particular, although I think what they're doing in this case is wrong. But it reminded me of those schools that are staunchly teaching AGAINST Science. They teach that the world is only a few thousand years old, that dinosaurs existed with people and teach the kids when people question this to say "Were you there?" It's diabolical.

[Boston Babe 73]

Fourth-grade science test

The question was spotted in the wild by a Reddit user in April 2013 when they heard their own kid use it in response to a question about dinosaurs. It was eventually tracked down to a "science test" given to children at the Blue Ridge Christian Academy.[6][7]*The final question of the quiz was "The next time someone says the earth is billions (or millions) of years old, what can you say?" with apparently full marks given for responding "were you there" (no penalties for a lack of question mark, though).Again, Ken Ham lost his shit over this, as the test (and presumably the use of the "were you there" line) was tracked down to Answers in Genesis.[8][9]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/How_do_...e_you_there%3F

[Angiebla]

This catholic organization believes that she is dead: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local...239314591.html

even the Vatican recognizes science and brain death as being valid. dafuq is wrong with Jahi family?

I went to a Catholic gradeschool and high school. I was never taught that spirituality trumped science when it came to a person's health.

[Monter]

I went to a Catholic gradeschool and high school. I was never taught that spirituality trumped science when it came to a person's health.

Yeah Catholics, as many faults as we have, are pro science.
There was an interview with a high ranking priest affiliated with the vatican. Dude is an astrophysicist and said basically that science and faith go together- one does not disprove the other, but rather work together.
I absolutely believe that.