This is the article that helped clarify all of the other crap.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...y-good/253315/
This is the article that helped clarify all of the other crap.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...y-good/253315/
Almost is NOT brain dead. That would be kind of like being a little bit pregnant. You either are or you are not. Period.Originally Posted by Queena
From my post earlier:
"And let me clarify even further. The respitory system is driven by the brain stem. The rest of the brain could have nothing happening but if the brain stem is still intact it will continue the simple functions. This may be where the confusion is stemming from. For all intents and purposes, the brain will never recover and they will never wake up. But the brain stem is still functioning. They still will never come back."
Just sayin
ETA: This was a follow up to my post explaining that brain dead means no activity and that there is no such thing as "partially brain dead". If the brain stem is still intact they are brain damaged. Not brain dead. But if ONLY the brain stem is functioning.....they won't come back even if not brain dead.
Geez. Exhausting.
Last edited by Boston Babe 73; 12-29-2013 at 06:35 PM.
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
I hope tomorrow the ventilator gets gently turned off and Jahi's family can say goodbye and begin the healing process.
I cannot imagine their pain, or what I would do in the circumstance but I do know that in this case it is time to let her go.
RIP Jahi.
I never try anything, I just do it. Wanna try me?
It is physically impossible for someone who is brain dead to recover. I think the stories you are referring to were cases where the person wasn't tested for brain activity yet, and the doctor was making a prognosis saying the patient MAY be brain dead.
"The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin
Not everyone is retarded. I had this situation happen in my family and the votes were something like 27-1 to pull the fucking plug ASAP.
Ok but if your family member were brain dead, there is no coming back from that.
"The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man" -Charles Darwin
All the cases you have shared through the articles are not people who were declared brain dead. The people in those stories were using coma/vegetative state/brain dead interchangeably and it was incorrect.
It's not that people have almost been declared brain dead. The testing had to occur to see how much brain activity and/or blood flow the patient had. One of the prognosis could be brain death. It could be come or it could be vegetative state, as well. Brain death was just a possibility.
It's no different than finding a mass. You go to the doctor and the doctor says, "this could be cancer, but we need to do a few tests first." You get the tests done and it's just a benign cyst. Tests are complete to rule things out. Have you ever seen R/O on any of your paperwork for tests? That means Rule Out.
This is an excellent article. It's written in a very simplistic way.
The other article you posted and quoted, not so much. I've already touched on the things you quoted in previous posts, but I wanted to respond to some other things in that article, so here they are:
By the 1960s, thanks to significant advances in technology, these kinds of transplants—once a staple of science fiction—had become a practical reality. But to accomplish this morally and legally, a new definition of death, one that enabled the organs to remain viable, had to be created.
This is hog poop. Brain death declarations did not originate because of organ donation. It began because doctors noticed there was a difference between coma patients, vegetative states, and people who had absolutely no brain activity or blood flow to the brain. It was only after the fact that organ donation was a thought. Transplants were already occurring from cardiac dead patients, but they didn’t fare well because of the ischemic time on the organ. It was thought brain dead donor organs would fare better because there would be continuous oxygenation during the placement process (finding a recipient) and less ischemic time. The results are in; brain dead donor organs fare much better!
Yes, organ procurement teams fly on private jets. Not because they think they’re special or want the bragging rights of private jets. It’s because the procurement teams literally fly to the donor hospital city, recover the organ, and fly back to the recipient hospital. There aren’t any fancy dinners or wining and dining going on. There is no site seeing. It’s literally in and out.They and their staffs often fly to organ harvests on private jets. Finder’s fees, in the form of “administrative costs,” are often paid to hospitals.
The finder’s fee statement is disgusting. There are no finder’s fees. The recipient list is governed by UNOS (United Network for Organ Sharing). They are the ones to provide the recipient waiting list once blood type and cross has occurred. When it comes to kidneys and pancreas HLA has to be completed and entered first. The donor hospitals have no idea who is eligible for transplant until UNOS provides the waiting list.
It is the job of organ procurement organizations and their wranglers to talk a family out of the organs belonging to a soon-to-be-dead son, daughter, husband, wife, nephew, niece, or other relative. This must be one of the toughest sales jobs in the world. Distraught parents whose child is dead or dying must be asked to make yet another sacrifice. But it is that very pain and confusion that helps organ procurement organizations ease their way in.
Families are not approached regarding organ donation until death pronouncement has been made and documented in the medical chart. Very rarely a stupid resident or fellow will make an ass out of themselves and mention brain death and organ donation in the same sentence. These kids get beat into submission; that they WILL NOT be the ones to approach a family regarding organ donation.
Being a Coordinator is one of the most rewarding jobs ever. It isn’t always easy. I’ve been called names; I’ve had phones, phone books, chairs, and end tables thrown at me. I’ve been told I’m a vulture and I kill people. Most of the families that did this ended up donating their loved ones organs. By the end of our time together we laughed and cried. To hear the families speak of their loved one and share their stories has always been an honor to me. To know that the families find closure and some happiness in, probably, their darkest hours is commendable. To know they are walking away knowing their loved one “didn’t die in vain” and were going to save multiple lives is a feeling I cannot describe. To see peace on their faces, even through their pain, and to feel their hugs and know they are genuine; it’s an amazing feeling to experience. Donor families will walk out of the hospital knowing their loved one is helping to save lives, creating a legacy that can’t be broken, and knowing ONLY 1% of the population is eligible to do so.
It’s an incredible “sales” job poophead author of this article.
This is misinformation. Clamping the aorta at the beginning of an organ procurement defeats the purpose of a brain dead donor. The aorta is clamped when all organs being recovered for transplant are ready to be removed. There is dissection involved for the first hour or two before cross clamp (clamping the aorta). Once cross clamp occurs preservation fluid is perfused into the body and the donor’s blood is removed. The statement, from the author, that the donor’s blood is left in place is more hog shit.Sometimes the aorta is clamped at the beginning of the harvest, and the blood replaced with a coolant to avoid clots and stabilize temperature. Traditionally, the donor’s blood is simply left in place.
Why would the blood be left? It would coagulate and the organ(s) would become unusable.
LMAO! It’s not hard to pin down. It’s not done because there is no reason to provide anesthetics to a dead person. If anesthetics harm organs why do they give them to people who are alive? Hmmm?The reason for denying beating-heart cadavers anesthetic during the removal of their organs is hard to pin down. (Some experts say it is because anesthetic will harm the organs.)
Yep. The doctor may have discussed the possibility of brain death to the family, but that IS NOT a diagnosis. It's just like getting the worst case scenario so when the results come back and it isn't the worst, you can be pleasantly surprised.
*******
If people don't want a prognosis, stop asking the doctors what they think.
Every time the subject of "brain dead" is debated in the future, I'm going to refer to it as "Beating a dead Jahi".
Local news is reporting the "last hope" NY facility has pulled out:
(Also, mom seems to still be in total denial.)Monday, December 30, 2013 8:33AM
KTVU--McMath's family may file a new appeal in an effort to try to prevent Children's Hospital Oakland from removing the girl from life support at 5 p.m. Monday -- a deadline set by a judge last week.
But at the same time the family was also dealing with the reality that there was nowhere to go for McMath. They learned the night before that a long term care facility in New York had pulled its offer to care for the teen. The New York facility was the family's last option after a hospital in Los Angeles had rescinded its offer to host the child earlier Sunday.
Even though the family was running out of options, members appeared to remain hopeful while they came together to pray at a church in Oakland Sunday.
"And when she does wake up, she's going to shake up a whole lot of people around here who didn't believe what I said," said Nailah Winkfield, McMath's mother.
The church was originally going to host a fundraiser to help with the cost of moving McMath to a new facility, but the event was canceled because the family's online campaign had already raised the needed $20,000.
The family told KTVU that their attorney Chris Dolan may ask a state appeals court to extend the 5 p.m. deadline Monday, but chances of having a judge approve their request were slim if they can not find a new facility for McMath.
http://m.ktvu.com/news/news/local/fa...elocati/ncYD8/
Last edited by *crickets*; 12-30-2013 at 10:05 AM.
total silence from mr. big shot PI atty Dolan. this was his last tweet, yesterday:
he's had his 15 minutes of fame--now back to biz as usual...Christopher Dolan @cbdlaw: Last day to win tickets to @49ers first Santa Clara game with @KNBR. Enter, retweet, & win! http://t.co/Ms8Z9wjxxz...
12/29/13 5:25 PM
Last edited by *crickets*; 12-30-2013 at 10:06 AM.
I'm going to be standing by with a split of Champagne when the clock strikes 5pm to honor Jahi. I would say to send her on her way, but she was gone weeks ago. More of a toast in honor of her finally being laid to rest. Poor girl.
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
Morbid I can't rep you but I really want too!
This reporter is hanging around outside the hospital and snagging family members for statements. He got hold of the stepdad early this AM and tweeted:
Will Tran @KRON4WTran: Just spoke to Jahi Mcmath's step dad. He is still working on finding a third facility to take her. She is brain dead. http://t.co/kvntZNezGz
12/30/13 6:55 AMWill Tran @KRON4WTran: Marvin winkfield says their atty will try to do some court action today to keep Jahi on ventilator after 5pm deadline http://t.co/b3ErwrEsJ0
12/30/13 6:57AMWill Tran @KRON4WTran: Children's hospital Oakland rep. Just told me that as of 945 am they have not been contacted to appear in court for Jahi mcmath case.
12/30/13 12:44 PM
Last edited by *crickets*; 12-30-2013 at 09:55 AM.
Please let her go!! She deserves to go with dignity. This has drug on way to long. I will be so happy when she is allowed to go!
Dear Nailah,
I think God is trying to tell you something. Please listen.
Love,
Nobody important
from court docs: Dr. Paul Fisher's note confirming brain death-
Could not be any more clear-cut than this:
- no electrical brain activity
- no reflexes
- no blood flow
- no respiratory effort
Last edited by *crickets*; 12-30-2013 at 12:33 PM.
I learned a lot from reading this thread, and on my own. How about we just call brain death, death. It's obvious that's what it is, and saying brain death only confuses people. People like me! I know that if I had received a report that said those things, I would understand, or if I didn't I would look it up. I would look up terms like no respitory, no murmer, no corneal reflex. Looking those things up will say that she is in fact dead. Not just brain dead, but dead dead. I get that there's a difference, and I'm so happy that my Mom died from caridiac arrest, and brain death. Otherwise, I could some people not understanding, just as they didn't when my uncle died from the same thing. Brain death, and not cardiac. For the longest, my Aunt and Grandma thought that my cousin "killed" my uncle by taking him off the machine. Frankly, her Mom shouldn't have left it up to her, but I digress.
Summary? There's not a flicker of life left in the child, and she needs to be buried. I would say put to rest, but she's been resting for the past couple of weeks now. If what they say is true, then her soul probably isn't at peace because of her family. I bet if they told them that way they would understand.
Dolan just tweeted this:
(TRO=temporary restraining order)Christopher Dolan @cbdlaw: We have extension of TRO until January 7:00 thank you Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12/30/13 7:08 PM
KQED News Staff and Wires -- December 30, 2013
Update: 4:18 p.m. ABC7News Bay Area is reporting that the judge has extended the temporary restraining order until 5 p.m. on Jan. 7.
Update: 3:50 p.m. Jahi McMath's uncle, Omari Sealey, made a brief statement this afternoon. He said a facility in New York has agreed to take Jahi and that the family has contracted with an air ambulance company to transport her door to door. However, he said that the hospital is not cooperating and that the family was asking Judge Evelio Grillo to extend a restraining order against the hospital, so that it will not disconnect the ventilator allowing her to breathe past a 5 p.m. deadline. Sealey also said a motion in federal court has been filed.
Sealey said the family has video of Jahi moving when her mother speaks.
http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/1...medium=twitter
Last edited by *crickets*; 12-30-2013 at 03:30 PM.
jesus fucking christ.
* wow you truly are the sterial cunt here are yo not.I fuckin hate you cunt* - Loonywop
★ take the sig down ★ - Loonywop
Seriously? So all of a sudden the (imaginary)LTC has agreed to take her? Who the fuck is this judge? Allowing the Family to keep doing this? This is disgusting. There's having trouble accepting your Daughter is dead. And then there is using her dead body as a spectacle. Family just lost HUGE points with me.
You can take those Fleets and shove them up your ass
I guess they showed the judge proof that they have a facility that will take her and have arranged transport. They have raised $25,000 on the GoFundMe account and we know there are (Christian) doctors willing to back them up.
Still no word on trache/g-tube issue. I guess they could transport her without them if the other facility agrees to it.
Sigh. This is getting old.
Poor sweet jahi. I'm so sorry angel.
...so they'll transport her to this Christian facility and the Christian doctors will hold hands and pray with the family at Jahi's bedside for a few days, until she develops pneumonia +/or a UTI and then sepsis, and then she will earn her angel wings and fly home to be with Jesus.
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