The Trayvon Martin discussion

[tinker]

There is no doubt this is tragic...and there is no doubt that if George had stayed in his car, Trayvon would be alive. George made bad decisions that night. So did the kid.

But there is one thing I can't get out of my mind. When I watched the tape of George back at the scene with the police, giving his version of the altercation. He stated that while Trayvon was beating him, he (George) was screaming Help, Help Help. When George made that statement, he had no way of knowing that people on the phone with 911 were recording the screams. So...to me, it WAS George screaming. Trayvon was not beaten up, he didn't need to scream for help because at that moment, he was on top being the aggressor. The star witness today even said....Oh..I figured it was "just" a fight. Totally no big deal, nothing out of the norm for this kid to engage in fisticuffs.

This whole case just makes me sick. Zimmerman was profiling this kid based on previous crimes in the area. They both screwed up..it cost this kid his life, and likely it will cost George his as well. Not literally...but you can bet he wishes he could take that whole night back.

PS: Miss Rachel doesn't want to come back tomorrow. Do you suppose she will? She doesn't seem to be pushed around easily.

[bowieluva]

I just fail to see how someone confronting a person who is stalking them is 'to blame' as well for anything that happened.

[Freethinker]

He dragged that out on purpose, he knew she did not want to come back, what would happen if she did not come back?

You are way off base with this. Not only does she have 2 more hours, I think they mentioned tapes, but I don't know of what. Then, she gets a recross too.

How is she off base with her statement? She's saying that the girl thought this would all be wrapped up today but the attorney deliberately dragged out the examination with very tangentially related questions in order to prolong her stay and hopefully break her down.

This is just a specific technique he is using, prosecutors use it too.

So, the girl wanted to go home. West did go slow, but that's his way, along with dealing with this type of witness does not equal dragging things out on purpose with "tangentially" related questions.. There is to be 2 more hours of whatever, then a recross. Just how fast was this lawyer to go?

[Ian 1]

Here you are. I found you guys at last. My world is limited to the JA case. I don't understand this one at all and it seems to have taken place in a part of the universe that I have passed through but never really stopped to try and figure out nor understand. I may have to qualify for the space program before I can get back there.

Why do so many of these people have names with French articles. What's with the "La's" and the "Le's" in front of their names?

I'll lurk and learn. Be patient with me. I promise to not get in the way.

Whenever it is decided to resume the JA case, I'm heading back to Phoenix.

[bowieluva]

So, the girl wanted to go home. West did go slow, but that's his way, along with dealing with this type of witness does not equal dragging things out on purpose with "tangentially" related questions.. There is to be 2 more hours of whatever, then a recross. Just how fast was this lawyer to go?

She was likely told to expect one day of testimony, and the Defense went as long as possible to wear her down and out. Again, this is not a case where I am critiquing the defense's trial style, I'm just saying yes, it was done on purpose, and the statement isn't 'off base' because that's not what 'off base' means. A lot of your posts kind of indicate that expressions and vocabulary confuse you.

[Live2Love]

There is no doubt this is tragic...and there is no doubt that if George had stayed in his car, Trayvon would be alive. George made bad decisions that night. So did the kid.

But there is one thing I can't get out of my mind. When I watched the tape of George back at the scene with the police, giving his version of the altercation. He stated that while Trayvon was beating him, he (George) was screaming Help, Help Help. When George made that statement, he had no way of knowing that people on the phone with 911 were recording the screams. So...to me, it WAS George screaming. Trayvon was not beaten up, he didn't need to scream for help because at that moment, he was on top being the aggressor. The star witness today even said....Oh..I figured it was "just" a fight. Totally no big deal, nothing out of the norm for this kid to engage in fisticuffs.

This whole case just makes me sick. Zimmerman was profiling this kid based on previous crimes in the area. They both screwed up..it cost this kid his life, and likely it will cost George his as well. Not literally...but you can bet he wishes he could take that whole night back.

PS: Miss Rachel doesn't want to come back tomorrow. Do you suppose she will? She doesn't seem to be pushed around easily.

And what about the neighbors who came outside immediately after the shooting? You don't think it's possible that someone mentioned they heard someone yelling for help?

[animosity]

There is no doubt this is tragic...and there is no doubt that if George had stayed in his car, Trayvon would be alive. George made bad decisions that night. So did the kid.

But there is one thing I can't get out of my mind. When I watched the tape of George back at the scene with the police, giving his version of the altercation. He stated that while Trayvon was beating him, he (George) was screaming Help, Help Help. When George made that statement, he had no way of knowing that people on the phone with 911 were recording the screams. So...to me, it WAS George screaming. Trayvon was not beaten up, he didn't need to scream for help because at that moment, he was on top being the aggressor. The star witness today even said....Oh..I figured it was "just" a fight. Totally no big deal, nothing out of the norm for this kid to engage in fisticuffs.

This whole case just makes me sick. Zimmerman was profiling this kid based on previous crimes in the area. They both screwed up..it cost this kid his life, and likely it will cost George his as well. Not literally...but you can bet he wishes he could take that whole night back.

PS: Miss Rachel doesn't want to come back tomorrow. Do you suppose she will? She doesn't seem to be pushed around easily.

i don't see what bad decisions trayvon made. can you please list them? if trayvon had none of zimmerman's dna on him, nor did he have any visible injuries save for a bullet hole, doesn't that disprove that he attacked zimmerman?

[Chauncy]

i don't see what bad decisions trayvon made. can you please list them? if trayvon had none of zimmerman's dna on him, nor did he have any visible injuries save for a bullet hole, doesn't that disprove that he attacked zimmerman?

I believe she is saying that he shouldn't have been wearing a hoodie.

[tinker]

And what about the neighbors who came outside immediately after the shooting? You don't think it's possible that someone mentioned they heard someone yelling for help?

Anything is possible...But Trayvon wasn't beaten up, his only injury was one gunshot. So, screaming for help while getting a beating makes more sense than screaming for help while giving one. It's hard to use common sense when emotions are so high, but my common sense tells me that George was screaming. I don't think "who" was screaming really has anything to do with his guilt or innocence though. It's my belief that George used deadly force when he didn't have to and should go to prison for killing Trayvon.

I live in a state that just passed conceal/carry. This kind of shit is going to happen more and more as everyone thinks it's OK to pack heat. Teenagers won't be allowed to have a legal gun, only nut-job adults that think they are Rambo and feel empowered. Count on it.

[Freethinker]

Think what you want Bow. I'd like to know why I'm basically the only one you feel you have to reprimand because my every word doesn't bow to your interpretations.
Again, the defense did not purposely drag things out. It went very slow, yes. But you are carrying my remark beyond what it was meant to be.
I don't know what your meaning for "off base" is unless you mean a foot off base at a baseball game. Yup, I bet that's what you think.

[Ian 1]

but i bet after everything she said - like she was talking to trayvon and she heard him say to zimmerman - why are you following me? and zimmerman said - watch you doing here - i bet the only clip they play is when she said trayvon said he was being followed, she asked what did he look like, and he said "some creepy cracker"

I haven't experienced much about the culture, but I've heard things. I don't know that if I was in that poor kid's situation, I wouldn't have said the same thing. And I'm an old white guy!

[wasthinking]

There is no doubt this is tragic...and there is no doubt that if George had stayed in his car, Trayvon would be alive. George made bad decisions that night. So did the kid.

But there is one thing I can't get out of my mind. When I watched the tape of George back at the scene with the police, giving his version of the altercation. He stated that while Trayvon was beating him, he (George) was screaming Help, Help Help. When George made that statement, he had no way of knowing that people on the phone with 911 were recording the screams. So...to me, it WAS George screaming. Trayvon was not beaten up, he didn't need to scream for help because at that moment, he was on top being the aggressor. The star witness today even said....Oh..I figured it was "just" a fight. Totally no big deal, nothing out of the norm for this kid to engage in fisticuffs.
This whole case just makes me sick. Zimmerman was profiling this kid based on previous crimes in the area. They both screwed up..it cost this kid his life, and likely it will cost George his as well. Not literally...but you can bet he wishes he could take that whole night back.

PS: Miss Rachel doesn't want to come back tomorrow. Do you suppose she will? She doesn't seem to be pushed around easily.

Your bias is trying to lie to put words in her mouth.

ya the black teen really screwed up.. Damn, first he has the nerve to leave the fucking house, then go buy candy ...... and his worse mistake ...
try to make it back home before some vigilante mental case chases him down and kills him.

[Ron_NYC]

Anything is possible...But Trayvon wasn't beaten up, his only injury was one gunshot. So, screaming for help while getting a beating makes more sense than screaming for help while giving one. It's hard to use common sense when emotions are so high, but my common sense tells me that George was screaming. I don't think "who" was screaming really has anything to do with his guilt or innocence though. It's my belief that George used deadly force when he didn't have to and should go to prison for killing Trayvon.

I live in a state that just passed conceal/carry. This kind of shit is going to happen more and more as everyone thinks it's OK to pack heat. Teenagers won't be allowed to have a legal gun, only nut-job adults that think they are Rambo and feel empowered. Count on it.

Maybe screaming cause someone is coming at you with a gun?

All these carrying and 'stand-your-ground' laws are fucking scary.

I haven't experienced much about the culture, but I've heard things. I don't know that if I was in that poor kid's situation, I wouldn't have said the same thing. And I'm an old white guy!

[Harlette]

Just tuned into Nancy Disgrace. Bombshell tonight. Did Trayvon call him a 'creepyass.....cracker' or a creepy.....asscracker'?

well that ruins all those "conservatives" screaming right now saying all pro trayvon news show will cover up his racial slurs

[Live2Love]

Anything is possible...But Trayvon wasn't beaten up, his only injury was one gunshot. So, screaming for help while getting a beating makes more sense than screaming for help while giving one. It's hard to use common sense when emotions are so high, but my common sense tells me that George was screaming. I don't think "who" was screaming really has anything to do with his guilt or innocence though. It's my belief that George used deadly force when he didn't have to and should go to prison for killing Trayvon.

I live in a state that just passed conceal/carry. This kind of shit is going to happen more and more as everyone thinks it's OK to pack heat. Teenagers won't be allowed to have a legal gun, only nut-job adults that think they are Rambo and feel empowered. Count on it.

Well if I were in a truffle with someone who had a gun and I were unarmed I would probably be screaming for help. Even if I weren't being immediately injured. Also, the fact that Rachael(sp?) said Trayvon said "get off me" corroborates that, at least in my eyes. So it could go both ways. I've really pretty much given up ever finding out who was screaming because there's no way for us to know. I live in a concealed carry state and while of course there are going to be those who want to play captain save-a-hoe, that kind of stuff doesn't happen much here. Even if it is a clear case of self defense they will take your gun, detain you, and collect evidence for an investigation. You will go to court to try to clear your name.

[bowieluva]

Think what you want Bow. I'd like to know why I'm basically the only one you feel you have to reprimand because my every word doesn't bow to your interpretations.
Again, the defense did not purposely drag things out. It went very slow, yes. But you are carrying my remark beyond what it was meant to be.
I don't know what your meaning for "off base" is unless you mean a foot off base at a baseball game. Yup, I bet that's what you think.

I don't think you speak English very well. None of this makes much sense and the stuff that does sort of make sense is still being used improperly.

[wasthinking]

Anything is possible...But Trayvon wasn't beaten up, his only injury was one gunshot. So, screaming for help while getting a beating makes more sense than screaming for help while giving one. It's hard to use common sense when emotions are so high, but my common sense tells me that George was screaming. I don't think "who" was screaming really has anything to do with his guilt or innocence though. It's my belief that George used deadly force when he didn't have to and should go to prison for killing Trayvon.

I live in a state that just passed conceal/carry. This kind of shit is going to happen more and more as everyone thinks it's OK to pack heat. Teenagers won't be allowed to have a legal gun, only nut-job adults that think they are Rambo and feel empowered. Count on it.

Tell me, how does this goofy logic work when Georgy claims he was being smothered? Is he captain of the ventriloquist team for you too?
That explains why he had no arms or hands himself that entire time ... he's just a dummy.

[Harlette]

There is no doubt this is tragic...and there is no doubt that if George had stayed in his car, Trayvon would be alive. George made bad decisions that night. So did the kid.

But there is one thing I can't get out of my mind. When I watched the tape of George back at the scene with the police, giving his version of the altercation. He stated that while Trayvon was beating him, he (George) was screaming Help, Help Help. When George made that statement, he had no way of knowing that people on the phone with 911 were recording the screams. So...to me, it WAS George screaming. Trayvon was not beaten up, he didn't need to scream for help because at that moment, he was on top being the aggressor. The star witness today even said....Oh..I figured it was "just" a fight. Totally no big deal, nothing out of the norm for this kid to engage in fisticuffs.

This whole case just makes me sick. Zimmerman was profiling this kid based on previous crimes in the area. They both screwed up..it cost this kid his life, and likely it will cost George his as well. Not literally...but you can bet he wishes he could take that whole night back.

PS: Miss Rachel doesn't want to come back tomorrow. Do you suppose she will? She doesn't seem to be pushed around easily.

um that would be the witness "john" and he retracted all those statements when he went to the prosecutors office saying he didn't know who was yelling and couldn't really tell if any one was throwing punches, and every one went out to the scene and talked to zimmerman and took pics of him and the body, so there was more than enuf time for GZ to know what they said - plus he wasn't held in jail overnight he was released and came home and went back to the police department b4 the renactment so that gave him more than enuff time to talk to all the witnesses

[Harlette]

i don't see what bad decisions trayvon made. can you please list them? if trayvon had none of zimmerman's dna on him, nor did he have any visible injuries save for a bullet hole, doesn't that disprove that he attacked zimmerman?

haven't you read comments in other places??? geez!! its trayvons fault because he did not run fast enuff so zimmerman wouldn't be able to catch him and shoot him!! perfectly logical :facepalm:

[gypsy1197]

Hey, Ian. Glad you found us. I think, for some reason, a lot of French settled in that area way back when.

I remember the day this happened. I wasn't surprised. George was the aggressor, imo. And I'm confident in my opinion.

[bowieluva]

Also, can you imagine what would have happened if he did run? Then it would have validated George's assertion that he was 'suspicious' or up to something. Nothing implies guilt like running.

Ironically, George got his ass beat by someone who could legitimately claim they were 'standing their ground'.

[Harlette]

Anything is possible...But Trayvon wasn't beaten up, his only injury was one gunshot. So, screaming for help while getting a beating makes more sense than screaming for help while giving one. It's hard to use common sense when emotions are so high, but my common sense tells me that George was screaming. I don't think "who" was screaming really has anything to do with his guilt or innocence though. It's my belief that George used deadly force when he didn't have to and should go to prison for killing Trayvon.

I live in a state that just passed conceal/carry. This kind of shit is going to happen more and more as everyone thinks it's OK to pack heat. Teenagers won't be allowed to have a legal gun, only nut-job adults that think they are Rambo and feel empowered. Count on it.

but - if you read geories initial statements he claimed trayvon had covered his mouth while he was punching him and banging his head in the ground, sooooooo....... how could it be zimmerman screaming??

[wasthinking]

Ms.Rachel Jeantel‏@MsRachel_9413 Apr
@IyanlaVanzant by watching ur show today I'm bless for my daddy every day for stand by my side

Ms.Rachel Jeantel‏@MsRachel_9417 Apr
My mama back thank u god

Ms.Rachel Jeantel‏@MsRachel_9427 Mar
Lord if I'm still alive after this I swear I will be in church when I have time

Ms.Rachel Jeantel‏@MsRachel_947 Apr
Lord if u help me pass this test I will be in church every Sunday early too

Ms.Rachel Jeantel‏@MsRachel_947 Apr
Fuck #fcat dat shit suck last year I miss over of one point to pass n I fail dat was some bull shit

[ImBatman!]

Well if I were in a truffle with someone who had a gun and I were unarmed I would probably be screaming for help. Even if I weren't being immediately injured. Also, the fact that Rachael(sp?) said Trayvon said "get off me" corroborates that, at least in my eyes. So it could go both ways. I've really pretty much given up ever finding out who was screaming because there's no way for us to know. I live in a concealed carry state and while of course there are going to be those who want to play captain save-a-hoe, that kind of stuff doesn't happen much here. Even if it is a clear case of self defense they will take your gun, detain you, and collect evidence for an investigation. You will go to court to try to clear your name.

The save-a-hoe rarely happens here. You hardly ever hear of folks using a concealed weapon. That could just be because the gangs do most of the killing or the news rarely reports about a law abiding citizen using their firearm.

[Ian 1]

Hey, Ian. Glad you found us. I think, for some reason, a lot of French settled in that area way back when.

I remember the day this happened. I wasn't surprised. George was the aggressor, imo. And I'm confident in my opinion.

Seems like he was the guy with the gun and the attitude. The kid had a pack of Skittles and a soda.