I stand corrected by Jodi herself! (At first I had agreed with another poster that Jodi had used that opportunity to show her easy-going side, but in re-thinking it, I thought she was probably caught off guard and actually regretted laughing.)Originally Posted by Sneakers the Wonder Dog
You would really let a verdict of 12 determine Travis is a piece of shit in your mind?
How sad!
"Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are" --- Benjamin Franklin
Jodi somehow distracts Travis while he's in the shower, either by dropping the camera (and he leans forward to catch it) or by asking him to stand up. As he's trying to get up, she pulls the knife from her pants pocket and stabs him a couple of times in the chest and stomach.
I believe the "body slam" story she has is based on their initial struggle. Travis fights with her as he staggers out of the shower, and she stabs him a couple more times in the chest, and I suspect that at least one of the defensive wounds was received at that time. He knocks her to the floor, maybe even knocks the knife from her hand, or she slips on water and blood. She goes down, giving Travis an opening to try to flee.
He stumbles towards the counter to get his balance. He's not thinking clearly because he's already feeling effects of blood loss and shock and fiery pain. He coughs up blood. Jodi stabs his back. He struggles down the hallway, using the wall for support. Jodi is following. She kicks his legs out from under him and he falls. She stomps on him as he struggles to get away. They end up at the end of the hall.
If we believe Nurmi's version, Travis is on the floor, face-up, weakly raising his hand to ward off Jodi's final and terrible assault. (An alternative would be that the stomach wounds your question was about were inflicted here). Travis maybe rolls onto his side to get away, or he's staring up at her as she brings that knife across his throat. (If we are to believe that Travis is alive in the photo where he's on the floor with his head and shoulder slightly raised up).
After she's done stabbing him, she drags him across the floor, where the final photo is accidentally snapped. She lays him on the bathroom floor, and takes a few moments to rest. That's when Travis lets out a final rattle; either it's his last gasp of air as he dies, or the air left in his lungs is finally released. Maybe his body even twitches as the brain suffers from the final stages of oxygen deprivation.
She panicked and furious, and grabs the gun to shoot him.
Then, finally, Jodi is free. She has killed the thing that holds her back. She has destroyed the thing that makes her ill.
One of the most striking things in the last few moments of Juan's rebuttal closing is that he says that Jodi can't stay away from Travis. Did anyone else see the look on her face when he said that?
Oh that is really creepy! That appears very intentional to me and with the head shake even more so.
"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves" .. Confucius
"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation " ...... Henry David Thoreau
I had quoted a post, but I realised I'd seen so many similar posts, ranging in severity from outright attack & accusation, to mild rebuke, that it'd be unfair to single out just one & impossible to cover all. Most of what I'm referring too happened 24hrs ago, & because it's Coconut everyone's probably kissed, hugged banana's & made up & fallen out anew several times more since. But, also because it's Coconut, chances are, this post will be relevant again now, or sometime very soon.
Sooo...
Geez guys, an IMPARTIAL observer CAN be critical of the prosecution AND point out the defenses strong points (& vice versa, which Coconut DOES do) without it having ANY bearing on their belief in the defendants innocence or guilt. That's what you're supposed to do if you're on a jury, aren't you? That's how our system works & I thought that was how your's did too. If you form an opinion that's weighted heavily for one side, it can skew your view of some evidence.
These commnts about the 12yr old girl conversation are a good example . If the victim in this case looked like Gus, or Dr G, or Dr S, or even Nurmi himself, do you think you'd be as quick to scoff & say it wasn't his fault, she MADE him do it or would you be all "see! see! I knew it! you can tell he's a sick, sleazy old and/ or fat fuck just by LOOKING at him". Coconut is doing what is supposed to be done - an OBJECTIVE appraisal of the evidence.
If it wasn't possible, or reasonable to expect a person to do that, even in a case where conviction is pretty much a foregone conclusion, then juror's wouldn't be asked if they're able to put their emotions aside & consider the case objectively. If you consistently score one side 100% & the other 0%, then you have lost your objectivity. & to those here that have said "I HATE her" & have openly stated they have no objectivity anymore when it comes to JA, that's fine - because you've made your position clear.
But calling Coconut a secret JAII member, & a "Jodi is innocent" believer simply for trying to be objective is wrong. I mean shit guys, Martinez would be picking the crap out of his case, just like Coconut is doing, in order to perfect it! There's a very small group of posters here who have tried to add an objective voice to this thread for visitors & future readers, because this IS the only place that allows open discussion of arguments for & against on each point put forward in this case. & if no-one here has the guts to stick their neck out & speak against the group voice , this becomes yet ANOTHER cheer squad for one side or the other. There's nothing wrong with Travis' support sites. They are a good & necessary thing & it would be a sad world if such sites didn't multiply & flourish. But MDS is not one of those sites. This thread is just one of thousands here. MDS was here long before this trial & will be around long after. This thread was created to discuss the case, not to create a cheer squad for either side.
Despite the huge notice at the start of this thread re just because someone holds a different view to yours doesn't make theirs wrong, we frequently have people being called trolls or secret Jodi supporters when they do try to be objective. That is the reason so many people are afraid to post, it's why this thread ALWAYS has at least 3 or 4 times as many lurking as it does posting 24/7. It's the reason so many posters have left, never to return, and, hearteningly, it seems it's also the reason reps take an astronomical leap upwards when someone works up the guts to stick their neck out. Speaking against the group voice here might draw a lot of heavy criticism in the thread - but it seems there's a much, much bigger voice speaking only through reps.
Please people, stop calling anyone who tries to be objective a Jodi supporter. Unless you're very superstitious, you must realise that speaking objectively about the defense in an online forum is NOT going to set Jodi free. As Coconut & others have pointed out SO MANY times, there is a shitload of OTHER evidence against her. Discussing the few teensy positives the defense has to work with WILL NOT JINX JUAN & SET JODI FREE, acting like it will lessens the credibility of this whole thread, & you've all come up with some amazinv arguments over the last few months. Don't lose sight of the big picture & condemn fellow posters to LWOP in a JAII facility for conceding one of the few real arguments this defense can use. Cos Coconut's said it too just not in the same words- but there aint many straws left to clutch. Debating points on MDS CANNOT set Jodi free.
June 7 2008 was a Friday.
"Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are" --- Benjamin Franklin
What was it? She did a lot of retelling and negative head shaking and I don't want to watch her again. Please tell/refresh
"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves" .. Confucius
"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation " ...... Henry David Thoreau
Snipped for length.
Whether Travis was in fact a pedophile or not has no bearing on the case. It's not a defense. It's a way to muddy the waters and to assassinate Travis's character.
I agree, Travis talking about a twelve-year-old girl having her first orgasm was gross. Being gross or a douche or even a player does not actually grant Jodi the right to kill.
By talking about the pedophile accusations (that are unsubstantiated, save for the clumsy, bored-sounding Travis trying to be sexy), you give it credence, and further erode Travis's character.
He liked her just fine for his outlet to slaughter a dead man and cash the checks for doing it. He is as much a con as JA.
For months he relished in his commitment to support a liar and degrade a man with his own lies. Then methodically began trying to distance from JA, which is really from his own actions!
Now he wants to back off the spotlight he created himself -- secondary gain .. private practice.
I said before, anyone looking for this pig's help better have a lot of money! He'll drone every move and word out for his own gain.
"Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are" --- Benjamin Franklin
It was near the end of Juan's rebuttal closing statements. Look at her reactions to Juan from about minute 59 through 1:03
I don't know whether I'm more disturbed by the hateful expression on her face, or the distaste on her face when Juan dared to suggest that she wanted Travis.
[QUOTE=wasthinking;3409911]June 7 2008 was a Friday.[/QUOTE
Actually, June 7th was a Saturday.
I Feel More Like I Do Now Than When I Got Here
ITA. He is totally devoid of ethics which is why I despise him. I found him repugnant in his direct exam of that creature with a tone that was intimate and creepy. He crossed the line defaming Travis' s name every day that he took the floor in the courtroom. His frivolous motions cost the state time and money. He is as vile as his client and will be forever tainted by his association with her due to his tactics. Putting her o n the stand for as long as he did was a very strategic blunder too (thank God)
"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves" .. Confucius
"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation " ...... Henry David Thoreau
OMG LOL --- I missed that one!!!!don't forget "sucCAME"! she thought this was the past tense of succumb. lmao!
Ha! I just got done telling my son that today! He said he thought so, too. How funny.
i think that is just a nervous tick she has
[QUOTE=Morticia;3409929]thanks, yup, I got the day of the week wrong. However, my point was .......Nurmi said she returned it on the 9th.. Nurmi is wrong. The rental was returned on the 7th. Doesn't he know this is a serious case ;)June 7 2008 was a Friday.[/QUOTE
Actually, June 7th was a Saturday.
"Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are" --- Benjamin Franklin
Thank you. I do remember that look and when I watched it again just now the word that came to my mind was hateful.
Then I see that is what you wrote above. She truly is a frightening creature. So much so that I never refer to her by her first name as it gives her a humanity that she does not possess .... her behavior the final two days in the courtroom show her further unraveling and it is scary that she in no way resembles the girl in the tv interviews. Her voice is different, her face is different .... She is most unattractive and hard and disturbing.
"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves" .. Confucius
"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation " ...... Henry David Thoreau
[QUOTE=wasthinking;3409942]Makes me wonder if he's deliberately creating grounds for appeal. Between making a fuss about the Walmart store, saying TA was shot in his left temple, and getting the date of the car rental return wrong, it sure looks like a lot of errors in a death penalty case that even us hacks on a forum can see.
I Feel More Like I Do Now Than When I Got Here
I think she hates him. And she seems to get off on these immature gestures like when she was doing the finger.
I am so tired of her face.
"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves" .. Confucius
"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation " ...... Henry David Thoreau
Not to beat a dead horse here, but I guess I still don't understand Nurmi telling the jury he doesn't like Jodi. He has spent the last four months telling them Jodi was a battered woman, she had to kill someone in a fight for her life, she suffered PTSD, she has been incarcerated for almost five years, she's being falsely accused of premeditated murder, and she's been publicly called a stalker, manipulator and a liar. Nurmi is claiming she is not a liar, but is a victim, and that her story is true. I've tried to factor in the explanation of others that Nurmi was likely talking to undecided jurors, or basing his statement on juror questions. These are all good answers, and I take them to mean that there may be a juror or two who might not be convinced that the evidence adds up to premeditated murder, yet they don't like Jodi... and now they have her very own attorney showing them that he still did the right thing (defended an innocent person) despite his negative feelings about her, and they can follow his example and disregard their dislike for her and defend her in the jury room. But here's what I don't understand: If Nurmi believes (or is advocating as if he believes) that Jodi is telling the truth, what's not to like about her? How, exactly, is she unlikeable? The only way a juror would dislike her after knowing her these four short months is if they don't believe her. Nurmi claims to believe her, but he's also confessing that he doesn't like her. Yet, if she's telling the truth (which he says she is), then she's not unlikeable at all, but pitiable and deserving of sympathy. Who dislikes a true victim, especially when knowing them only a short time? The defense team hasn't named anything unlikeable about Jodi that Nurmi could be referring to. She would only be unlikeable if Juan is right about her. I just do not understand Nurmi's strategy. (I wish I could be more articulate in asking this. I should have gone to college...)
LOL heehee at least I am not the only one! Everytime I hear it, it grabs my attention from something else I might be doing and I laugh. Kurt Nurmi -- Burt N Ernie!!
I loved when JM slipped in she couldn't be trusted about a child's care. After all these months, it is still fascinating to me to be able to watch a psychopath, how controlled she can be will simmering below the surface. I've learned a few things from the opportunity to watch her up close. One thing was her own reaction when JM put up her bank statement, her subtle reaction told me there was more there she was worried about. Watch her there too, she was looking down, so I look down, and there it was, the tire repair was not for TA's funeral.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFPJl-xXZ2Q
46:05
"Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are" --- Benjamin Franklin
I think you articulated your points very well. As prior posters have noted he seems to be muddying the waters so to speak to create grounds for appeal. Your points are excellent.
"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves" .. Confucius
"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation " ...... Henry David Thoreau
I had quoted a post, but I realised I'd seen so many similar posts, ranging in severity from outright attack & accusation, to mild rebuke, that it'd be unfair to single out just one & impossible to cover all. Most of what I'm referring too happened 24hrs ago, & because it's Coconut everyone's probably kissed, hugged banana's & made up & fallen out anew several times more since. But, also because it's Coconut, chances are, this post will be relevant again now, or sometime very soon.
Sooo...
Geez guys, an IMPARTIAL observer CAN be critical of the prosecution AND point out the defenses strong points (& vice versa, which Coconut DOES do) without it having ANY bearing on their belief in the defendants innocence or guilt. That's what you're supposed to do if you're on a jury, aren't you? That's how our system works & I thought that was how your's did too. If you form an opinion that's weighted heavily for one side, it can skew your view of some evidence.
These commnts about the 12yr old girl conversation are a good example . If the victim in this case looked like Gus, or Dr G, or Dr S, or even Nurmi himself, do you think you'd be as quick to scoff & say it wasn't his fault, she MADE him do it or would you be all "see! see! I knew it! you can tell he's a sick, sleazy old and/ or fat fuck just by LOOKING at him". Coconut is doing what is supposed to be done - an OBJECTIVE appraisal of the evidence.
If it wasn't possible, or reasonable to expect a person to do that, even in a case where conviction is pretty much a foregone conclusion, then juror's wouldn't be asked if they're able to put their emotions aside & consider the case objectively. If you consistently score one side 100% & the other 0%, then you have lost your objectivity. & to those here that have said "I HATE her" & have openly stated they have no objectivity anymore when it comes to JA, that's fine - because you've made your position clear.
But calling Coconut a secret JAII member, & a "Jodi is innocent" believer simply for trying to be objective is wrong. I mean shit guys, Martinez would be picking the crap out of his case, just like Coconut is doing, in order to perfect it! There's a very small group of posters here who have tried to add an objective voice to this thread for visitors & future readers, because this IS the only place that allows open discussion of arguments for & against on each point put forward in this case. & if no-one here has the guts to stick their neck out & speak against the group voice , this becomes yet ANOTHER cheer squad for one side or the other. There's nothing wrong with Travis' support sites. They are a good & necessary thing & it would be a sad world if such sites didn't multiply & flourish. But MDS is not one of those sites. This thread is just one of thousands here. MDS was here long before this trial & will be around long after. This thread was created to discuss the case, not to create a cheer squad for either side.
Despite the huge notice at the start of this thread re just because someone holds a different view to yours doesn't make theirs wrong, we frequently have people being called trolls or secret Jodi supporters when they do try to be objective. That is the reason so many people are afraid to post, it's why this thread ALWAYS has at least 3 or 4 times as many lurking as it does posting 24/7. It's the reason so many posters have left, never to return, and, hearteningly, it seems it's also the reason reps take an astronomical leap upwards when someone works up the guts to stick their neck out. Speaking against the group voice here might draw a lot of heavy criticism in the thread - but it seems there's a much, much bigger voice speaking only through reps.
Please people, stop calling anyone who tries to be objective a Jodi supporter. Unless you're very superstitious, you must realise that speaking objectively about the defense in an online forum is NOT going to set Jodi free. As Coconut & others have pointed out SO MANY times, there is a shitload of OTHER evidence against her. Discussing the few teensy positives the defense has to work with WILL NOT JINX JUAN & SET JODI FREE, acting like it will lessens the credibility of this whole thread, & you've all come up with some amazinv arguments over the last few months. Don't lose sight of the big picture & condemn fellow posters to LWOP in a JAII facility for conceding one of the few real arguments this defense can use. Cos Coconut's said it too just not in the same words- but there aint many straws left to clutch. Debating points on MDS CANNOT set Jodi free.
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