Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[wasthinking]

it could be a reason for appeal but prolly not winnable at all! - but i still can't believe they missed until geffner saw it

I said it early on and got hated on for it. Maybe they do read here lol

[I doubt it]

i wasn't sure if we were still on lions, bears, and tigers



!!!!!lmao!!!!

liars and tigers and bears oh my

[gigiann]

Ditto! :)

^^^^^This^^^^^ They didn't have anyone to refute any of the evidence. JMHO
They even had to give him OJT on how to use a pointer on the computer.

[wasthinking]

I understood jen jen's question to the doc to be: how long would it have taken the brain to be void of blood? the doc's question before answering jenn jenn was: do you mean with all of TA's injuries? jen jen: yes. doc's answer: in a matter of seconds.
did i understand jen jen's question differently?

maybe, but that's my point, it was left unclear! There is no way he died in seconds from bleeding out of all wounds, the hall proves that isn't true. It took more than 1-2 seconds to get down that hall, and get slaughtered there to bleed more. It goes against JMs theory and that he suffered also. If you are dead in one second, appeals don't usually consider that cruel suffering. Doc screwed up a lot imo.

[Harlette]

Even then they didn't catch it, a juror did.

but the juror caught it cuz geffner had just testified to it, which means that wilmont didn't find it when she first (and second) cross examined dr woof - which now the motions made sense the asked geffner to testify to rebutt demarte he got the case file read the autopsy and prolly asked if they had noticed the dura was intact - and wilmont goes running to make another motion so he could rebut dr horn - so i bet that was the first she realized it was in the report - then wasn't gonna bring it up directly to dr woof cuz she knew it had to be a mistake, just based on the autopsy photos - i bet she was pissed the juror asked the question

eta: that was the first thing that jumped out at me when i read the medical examiners report - smh!

[coconut]

but the juror caught it cuz geffner had just testified to it, which means that wilmont didn't find it when she first (and second) cross examined dr woof - which now the motions made sense the asked geffner to testify to rebutt demarte he got the case file read the autopsy and prolly asked if they had noticed the dura was intact - and wilmont goes running to make another motion so he could rebut dr horn - so i bet that was the first she realized it was in the report - then wasn't gonna bring it up directly to dr woof cuz she knew it had to be a mistake, just based on the autopsy photos - i bet she was pissed the juror asked the question

Listen to Geffner's testimony again. The intact dura mater was brought up then on direct. I do agree that Wilma did not want to have to speak to Horn about it. She was either saving it for closing arguments or did not want to mess up the question.

[Harlette]

Listen to Geffner's testimony again. The intact dura mater was brought up then on direct. I do agree that Wilma did not want to have to speak to Horn about it. She was either saving it for closing arguments or did not want to mess up the question.

it was borught up on geffners direct - but wilmont should have found it 4 months ago when she was crossing dr horn - the first time

[gigiann]

sorry but focusing on that is petty to me. One of JMs witnesses did the same thing and no one tried to make it into anything.

WT, I am not focusing on it. I observed it. It made me laugh. I apologize if my observation offended anyone.

[Poppycock]

;/

[MorbidlyLovely]

I think we can all agree that regardless of her specific diagnosis, regardless of which expert you support, that something is deeply wrong with Jodi's mental health. She is not well.

What impact will that have on the trial? Will the jury feel some sympathy for a young female killer who suffers from a disorder? Can they help her, send her to prison where she can get medicine and treatment and maybe some day live a productive life? Or should they kill her?

The defense has benefited from all the mental health discussion. The jury has spent so much time getting to know Jodi in detail. She is a real person to them, and she is sick. Is she a monster the same way we look at a serial killer? Or is she an emotionally immature, lovesick outcast who needs help from our society? If she had counseling and medication in 2007 would there have even been a murder?

Excellent objective points, as usual.

Up until a few days ago, I was leaning WAY towards a hung jury; however, human nature being what it is combined with the horrific nature of the crime, I believe more than 1 juror is probably inclined to believe Jodi is mentally ill and have some sympathy in that direction and will want to punish her, yet spare her life. Coupled with this, as you pointed out, Coconut, that jury had 18 days of Jodi on the stand...and have shared the courtroom with her every single day. On some level, perhaps even subconsciously, I think the defense team played that strategy quite brilliantly. Christ, all of that exposure to the wonky-eyed monster over a months-long period must have some effect on the jurors. Mix it in with all the psychobabble and differing diagnoses being bandied about, and, yes, I can most definitely see at least 1 juror wanting to spare her life.

Once the defense team was successful in getting the lesser charges added to the jury instruction, I've reconsidered my prediction of hung jury and now wouldn't be at all surprised if a verdict of guilty of 2nd degree (with maximum sentence) is the outcome. Wrapping one's mind around such a horrific, senseless killing is difficult. Trying to see into that warped minefield that is Jodi's brain is something most of the population would never be able to do as, thankfully, not many of us think/feel/function like Jodi. I think at least 1 juror would find it much more palatable to believe Jodi was mentally ill and not in control of her actions than, after spending all of this time exposed to her, can accept the fact that she could premeditate something so heinous and carry it out so viciously.

I think the verdict is anybody's guess at this point but, as I said, I certainly won't be shocked if 2nd-degree is read on Judgment Day. Maybe I'm just jaded by the likes of the OJ trial but time will tell (and probably very soon).

Before anyone goes into attack mode or tries to banish me to the JAII site, I'm not saying that's how *I* personally would react if I were a juror, I'm just making an objective statement about the impact I believe all of these fuck-and-awe, smoke-and-mirror tactics might have impacted at least 1 juror. And 1 dissenting juror is sometimes all it takes to throw that proverbial monkey wrench into the mix.

[wasthinking]

but the juror caught it cuz geffner had just testified to it, which means that wilmont didn't find it when she first (and second) cross examined dr woof - which now the motions made sense the asked geffner to testify to rebutt demarte he got the case file read the autopsy and prolly asked if they had noticed the dura was intact - and wilmont goes running to make another motion so he could rebut dr horn - so i bet that was the first she realized it was in the report - then wasn't gonna bring it up directly to dr woof cuz she knew it had to be a mistake, just based on the autopsy photos - i bet she was pissed the juror asked the question

eta: that was the first thing that jumped out at me when i read the medical examiners report - smh!

I can agree w that, see her grinning like a cat with a canary hoping she had a sneak attack. JM goes last .. she just doesn't understand, there are no sneaks left in her bonnet that he can't handle.

He needs to get to the damn premed though and drive it home better. I can puke thinking an idiot can come out of there saying, 'well whine' he didn't prove it'. Like the idiot type that needs a f'ing video of the murder with their HLN and CSI tv brains.

[TMY1]

I understood jen jen's question to the doc to be: how long would it have taken the brain to be void of blood? the doc's question before answering jenn jenn was: do you mean with all of TA's injuries? jen jen: yes. doc's answer: in a matter of seconds.
did i understand jen jen's question differently?

That's the way I understood the question and response as well.

[olgasbunghole]

Originally Posted by olgasbunghole
I understood jen jen's question to the doc to be: how long would it have taken the brain to be void of blood? the doc's question before answering jenn jenn was: do you mean with all of TA's injuries? jen jen: yes. doc's answer: in a matter of seconds.
did i understand jen jen's question differently?

maybe, but that's my point, it was left unclear! There is no way he died in seconds from bleeding out of all wounds, the hall proves that isn't true. It took more than 1-2 seconds to get down that hall, and get slaughtered there to bleed more. It goes against JMs theory and that he suffered also. If you are dead in one second, appeals don't usually consider that cruel suffering. Doc screwed up a lot imo.

I agree, he should have really laid it out in detail for the jury to visualize, but in his defense jen jen was asking a specific question and being bitchy aggressive about the time frame of that one thing. I believe that the jury does see that the bullet came last, due to lack of blood when comparing the throat slashing, which had significante blood due to his beating heart..........as an after thought: I hope those jurors were blessed with common sense!

[TMY1]

WT, I am not focusing on it. I observed it. It made me laugh. I apologize if my observation offended anyone.

That was a hoot!

[wasthinking]

Excellent objective points, as usual.

Up until a few days ago, I was leaning WAY towards a hung jury; however, human nature being what it is combined with the horrific nature of the crime, I believe more than 1 juror is probably inclined to believe Jodi is mentally ill and have some sympathy in that direction and will want to punish her, yet spare her life. Coupled with this, as you pointed out, Coconut, that jury had 18 days of Jodi on the stand...and have shared the courtroom with her every single day. On some level, perhaps even subconsciously, I think the defense team played that strategy quite brilliantly. Christ, all of that exposure to the wonky-eyed monster over a months-long period must have some effect on the jurors. Mix it in with all the psychobabble and differing diagnoses being bandied about, and, yes, I can most definitely see at least 1 juror wanting to spare her life.

Once the defense team was successful in getting the lesser charges added to the jury instruction, I've reconsidered my prediction of hung jury and now wouldn't be at all surprised if a verdict of guilty of 2nd degree (with maximum sentence) is the outcome. Wrapping one's mind around such a horrific, senseless killing is difficult. Trying to see into that warped minefield that is Jodi's brain is something most of the population would never be able to do as, thankfully, not many of us think/feel/function like Jodi. I think at least 1 juror would find it much more palatable to believe Jodi was mentally ill and not in control of her actions than, after spending all of this time exposed to her, can accept the fact that she could premeditate something so heinous and carry it out so viciously.

I think the verdict is anybody's guess at this point but, as I said, I certainly won't be shocked if 2nd-degree is read on Judgment Day. Maybe I'm just jaded by the likes of the OJ trial but time will tell (and probably very soon).

Before anyone goes into attack mode or tries to banish me to the JAII site, I'm not saying that's how *I* personally would react if I were a juror, I'm just making an objective statement about the impact I believe all of these fuck-and-awe, smoke-and-mirror tactics might have impacted at least 1 juror. And 1 dissenting juror is sometimes all it takes to throw that proverbial monkey wrench into the mix.

So true! Hell, killer has followers crying for her! Statistics sugget strong, juries don't put females to death as easily as males. Stats also suggest they don't give the DP if they think the def has a mental illness.

However, if you look at just AZ....

http://www.nlada.org/DMS/Documents/1...hjurors24.html
Since Arizona revamped its law because of a landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling that juries must determine mitigating factors in death penalty cases, Maricopa County juries are voting for death far more often than their peers in four other states affected by the ruling. They are also dishing out death sentences more often than judges did in the past.

Including the jury in the Ahwatukee case, the trial of Wendi Andriano, Valley juries have voted the death penalty for 14 of 18 defendants since Aug. 1, 2002.

That 78 percent rate contrasts sharply with the sentences of Maricopa County Superior Court judges, who imposed death in 15 percent of cases from 1995 to 1999, according to 2002 report by the state Capital Case Commission.

While Arizona legal experts say it still may be premature to determine how the change is working, jurors in the Andriano case told The Arizona Republic that they believe juries should make the choice, even though they felt enormous pressure and anguished over their death penalty verdict.

[wasthinking]

WT, I am not focusing on it. I observed it. It made me laugh. I apologize if my observation offended anyone.

gig, no need to apologize! I wasn't offended at all, I just followed up with fair balance ;) I finally remembered which state witness it was that spill water all over.
That young man with the video of TA and JA. That one where TA was telling his near death experience and 'that blond thing' was in his lap.

[wasthinking]

Perhaps he thinks Travis may have been shot while cornered in the shower. I don't think any jurors believe her story.

I am not as concerned about the male juror I was before, he appeared to be looking at whoever is doing the questioning rather than the defendant. I noticed he had on a wedding band. As did another young male in a hoodie, but not gangsta style, short hair clean cut. I can't really describe the jurors, because I might offend some here with the same features.

One of the women waiting to get in was bf's with ALV's sister, they went to Sunnyslope High School in Phoenix. She said ALV has never been married to a man. Her name has changed though. And she threw it out there to the jury she has two children.

Overall they look pretty average, you would not notice them on the street. Sep maybe a waist length ponytail on an old guy. One kindly looking old man took a nice long gaze around the gallery during a side bar. Can't begin to guess who looks like foreman material!

thanks Poppy for taking the time to report!
hum, didn't someone here say they found her marriage record digging in geneology somewhere or something like that?

[gigiann]

gig, no need to apologize! I wasn't offended at all, I just followed up with fair balance ;) I finally remembered which state witness it was that spill water all over.
That young man with the video of TA and JA. That one where TA was telling his near death experience and 'that blond thing' was in his lap.

You mean that "blonde or white thing" in his lap?

[olgasbunghole]

Originally Posted by olgasbunghole
I understood jen jen's question to the doc to be: how long would it have taken the brain to be void of blood? the doc's question before answering jenn jenn was: do you mean with all of TA's injuries? jen jen: yes. doc's answer: in a matter of seconds.
did i understand jen jen's question differently?

That's the way I understood the question and response as well.

If only we were on the jury

[PopRocks]

I would be surprised with anything less than M1, jodi lied to the jury way too many times to garner much sympathy from them

[wasthinking]

You mean that "blonde or white thing" in his lap?

yes. I'd put an 'e' on blonde but I can't edit, it's late, the brain is numb, I'm tired and lazy .. pick any one you like

I fall into a petty hole ever now and then myself!

[olgasbunghole]

I would be surprised with anything less than M1, jodi lied to the jury way too many times to garner much sympathy from them

me too.

[Jadedmile]

omg Harlette, my reaction was wth, why them, not the family? WTH were potential witnesses doing with all that evidence in their possession?

They are the Gladys Kravits (sp) friends. Demanding love Jode when we do, hate her when we do. Who needs friends like that!

Yeah I thought that was creepy too...!

[Jadedmile]

I don't think there is an email that precedes his dated 5-26-08. If there is it has not been admitted. Even Sky Hughes said they were trying to figure out what caused him to respond as he did in that 5-26 email. But he was killed nine days later on 6-4-08. He threatened to expose her in that email and two days later she stole the gun and planned that fateful trip.
The mystery remains what did she do that caused him to finally figure her out and call her a sociopath?

my theory is it had to be a phone call, something she threatened him with...? Or maybe she stole a bunch of $$$ out of his bank account that Mimi Hall mentioned she'd hacked into, and that was the $ she had to take the sudden trip to kill Travis?!

[Jadedmile]

While the Arias family has not shown a modicum of decorum I still feel sad at that tweet.

Damn it, I do too; I'm a Mom, can't help it...