Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[poppym]

Whether or not the mistake was Dr. Horn's or Flores', I personally MUCH prefer it to be Flores' mistake over Dr. Horn's. Horn's testimony is critical to the case. The jury would easier forgive Flores for a mistake like this than they would forgive Dr. Horn. If they had Flores take the fall, then it was for good reason. Or, Flores was the one who goofed. Either way, Flores had to own that one.

I agree with this! If you're talking about the wounds and the manner of death, it's much more important for the ME to be credible than the lead Det, on that subject anyway! In the trial itself, Flores was only challenged by the Def regarding his comments in 2009 deposition and interview with 48hrs (re: gunshot first). But I thought JM did a good job of cleaning up when he asked Flores on re-cross if he was required to be an expert in the sequence of wounds, and had an MD after his name.

Wasn't it John Kerry who famously said "I was in favor of that, until I was against it" or something like that? Same with the lovely Dr. 'I would never say that' Horne.

After that 2009 hearing where Det. Flores testified under oath that it was Dr. Horne's opinion the GSW might have been first and TA might have been conscious after the GSW, with Juan Martinez there representing the state and offering no objections to the testimony, the judge issued a ruling. (Judge Sally Duncan, who was handling the case at that time.) It said: 'The State presented evidence that the victim, Travis Alexander, was first shot on the right side of the head with a .25 caliber handgun and that bullet lodged in his left cheek. This wound was not fatal and may or may not have rendered the victim unconscious. The victim did not remain unconscious based on the infliction of other wounds and the location of blood-spatter evidence in the bathroom sink and blood in the hallway."

The prosecution's original position was GSW first, based on Dr. Horne's opinions and the blood evidence, later changed to GSW last. Why? Who knows...maybe after Jodi came up with her self-defense story? But yes, Horne's opinion did change from 'GSW could have been first' to 'GSW had to be last and I would never have said otherwise, oh and BTW I have no idea what that Detective was talking about, I don't recall EVER having a conversation with him about this case.'

As you've said in a later post than this one, the ME wouldn't put in his report a speculative sequence of inflicted wounds, and isn't expected to. If I'm not mistaken, the sequence has importance regarding the Death Penalty. The prosecution contended that shooting TA after he was dead was heinous, cruel and unusual, and cited it as a reason for putting the Death Penalty on the table. Could be why they changed course, and is probably, most certainly why the Defense want to assert that the gunshot came first. Why the sequence of horror makes any difference, is beyond me.

The defense wants Geffner to testify now about TA's brain function after the gun shot based on Stabby's lies.

4/27/2013 NOT - Notice - Party (001) 4/29/2013
NOTE: NOTICE OF ADDITIONAL TESTIMONY RE: SURREBUTTAL WITNESS

Geffner wants to play ME now. The defense ,jmo, knows based on the previous jury questions that her goose is cooked.

Do a little dance, make a little noise, get down tonight!

I think she has always been able to talk her way out of anything. She may have BPD, but I think she also has sociopathic traits, if she isn't a straight up psychopath.

One of the things that has always bothered me (and fascinated me!) is how easily she lies and how convincing she is. The lies may be obvious (in that they could not possibly be true) but she tells them very well and with great confidence.

I was initially attracted to this case because of the 48 Hours episode. She lied so convincingly in that episode, but it was very clear from the evidence that she was lying.

I think she has been used to doing this, probably her whole life. She thought that she could talk her way out of this one too.

Like in this example where she says she received death threats in Jail through notes hidden in books. She then says she destroys them, and Maureen Maher says, "Don't you think it might have been important to hold onto them?"
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50139242n
Preposterous story, delivered with articulate conviction!

We know what Nurmi was trying to imply about Dr Horn. Det Flores isn't the first to be wrong on theory about how/why a victim was murdered and he won't be the last.

The defense had an opportunity to call Dr Horn at that very same hearing and at subsequent hearings. They didn't. Know why? Because it suited their purpose not to!

The defense has also had 4 1/2 yrs to have another ME give a different opinion yet...they didn't. Know why? They were afraid of finding out Dr Horn is right.

Now in their desperation they want Geffner, a PHD, not an MD and certainly not one who has performed 5 or 6 thousand autopsies to testify based on Stabby's lies about the sequence of the wounds.

Agree! 100%

Can we say that Jodi Arias formed a 'contingent' premeditation? Something like, (1)"If he takes me back, I won't kill him; or, (2) If he fails to take me back, I will kill him." Does being prepared indicate premeditation? Does that compare to the hold-up artist who walks into the store with a gun with the intention to only (1) rob, but is also prepared to (2) shoot if he encounters resistance?

I've heard this a theory, but personally, I don't believe this was her plan. I think her intention was to 'move on', 'end the problem' of Travis! How dare Travis not want her! I don't think her ego could bare the audacity of his rejection. I've said this before but, better for her that she kills him, than he rejects her.

Holy fuck. She hacked his email and forwarded all of the ones from women (regardless of content) to herself!

I fail to see what kind of legal reason would keep this sort of evidence out of the prosecutions case! Mega important I would think!

[coconut]

Coconut!!! Why you so angry tonight muffin?? Don't be that way! This trial has got your nipple in a ringer lately!

Ok, my thoughts on Skye and Chris Hughes. I like hearing what they have to say. It puts pieces of the puzzle together for me. At least we're getting more information. I'm all for them going on whatever show they want to. Yes, Skye seems like a busybody, but usually nosy people get good info. I don't mind that at all. It's sure helpful. We wouldn't know this stuff unless they were there telling it to us.

Ok, now Abe. Abe's a good guy. We have a mutual friend. He's got a serious gift of gab and really should think about radio or TV. (More money in TV Abe, just in case you're reading) I think that's why Dr. Drew keeps calling him on. He doesn't call Dr. Drew, ever! They call him. Most of the time he just calls in because it's too much trouble and time to go all the way down to their studio- even tho they send a driver. Dr. Drew likes him. I wouldn't be surprised if he became a regular on that show. He talks fast, doesn't stutter, is kinda funny, why not?

Not angry, just riled up! I'm working up a good rage for trial day tomorrow

I know it seems like The Hughes are filling in some gaps with their info. How very "helpful" of them right? But they are telling us what they want us to hear - their info is slanted, and they are very goal oriented in what they want us to think about them, Jodi, and Travis. They are very calculated and political, acting like they are on the moral high ground all the time. There is a reason why they are on TV now, I think they waited until they thought the trial was won for the prosecution to start the promotional efforts. I find going on tv in a situation like this completely unbecoming. It feeds into the "trial as entertainment" mentality that should be beneath those involved in the case who claim to care about the victim. HLN is nothing more than a fart in the wind of justice.

With Abe too, I just don't see any reason for him to be on television. He went on one date with Jodi and now he's on tv a couple times a week talking about it? Is that really how you want to be known to the world? 15 minutes of fame is not worth the association with this clusterfuck! Run in the other direction.

[M Joy]

Pace yourself coconut. It's gonna be a long day tomorrow!

I think Chris and Sky's subpoenas were recently lifted.

Abe has natural talent. I kinda like him

[*crickets*]

Do a little dance, make a little noise, get down tonight!

That would be Do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight!

Wee lassie.

[AgathaAppleswine]

Not angry, just riled up! I'm working up a good rage for trial day tomorrow

I know it seems like The Hughes are filling in some gaps with their info. How very "helpful" of them right? But they are telling us what they want us to hear - their info is slanted, and they are very goal oriented in what they want us to think about them, Jodi, and Travis. They are very calculated and political, acting like they are on the moral high ground all the time. There is a reason why they are on TV now, I think they waited until they thought the trial was won for the prosecution to start the promotional efforts. I find going on tv in a situation like this completely unbecoming. It feeds into the "trial as entertainment" mentality that should be beneath those involved in the case who claim to care about the victim. HLN is nothing more than a fart in the wind of justice.

With Abe too, I just don't see any reason for him to be on television. He went on one date with Jodi and now he's on tv a couple times a week talking about it? Is that really how you want to be known to the world? 15 minutes of fame is not worth the association with this clusterfuck! Run in the other direction.

I know, right? How dare they try to give Travis a voice, and try to show him in a different light than Jodi has. Which is quite clearly, not slanted. Am I right? No????

Come on, if Travis had no one standing up for him in this way, you'd probably be jumping up and down and pointing out how he had no friends, and how no one would say a nice word about him, and so what Jodi said must be true.

[nicola]

I'm not sure if this has been said and I apologize if I have missed it.
I watched Dr Horne's testimony again along with his latest testimony from the other day and noticed he changed his answers concerning the photo of Jodi's foot and Travis in the background bleeding. He was asked by the DT on day 3 if someone with their throat cut could lift their head up a bit and raise an arm and he said it was not impossible. Yet at the end of his testimony the other day he said it wasn't possible that someone could lift their head this way. I think Jodi was dragging Travis in this picture and knocked the camera which then took the photo. Has any one else thought this or was it said by Martinez it could possibly be this scenario? Maybe I missed it, Thanks. I haven't posted in a firum before, hopefully this is in the right place!

[coconut]

I know, right? How dare they try to give Travis a voice, and try to show him in a different light than Jodi has. Which is quite clearly, not slanted. Am I right? No????

Come on, if Travis had no one standing up for him in this way, you'd probably be jumping up and down and pointing out how he had no friends, and how no one would say a nice word about him, and so what Jodi said must be true.

Travis doesn't need anyone to stand up for him, does he? The trial has brought out the facts for everyone to evaluate and draw our own conclusions, if our conclusions matter. We did not know him in any meaningful way, and when the trial is over our thoughts will turn to other pursuits. His family and friends knew him and can memorialize him in their own way. He was not a public figure and any "public opinion" of him will be fleeting and meaningless, especially if it is formed on HLN shows.

[gigiann]

Posted by imbatman:
Originally Posted by ImBatman! Even if and this is a big IF Travis did say "kill you bitch" it was most likely a spontaneous utterance due to being shot in the head. Just throwin that out there.

----------

I know if someone shot me in the head....if I could say anything at all....it would definitely include "kill you bitch"!

[gigiann]

Travis was known to leave doors unlocked. Having a .25 caliber is for self protection, not the kind of recreation use he did with friends. If he feared intruders, he would have taken more precaution in locking doors.

[Jillee]

Not angry, just riled up! I'm working up a good rage for trial day tomorrow

I know it seems like The Hughes are filling in some gaps with their info. How very "helpful" of them right? But they are telling us what they want us to hear - their info is slanted, and they are very goal oriented in what they want us to think about them, Jodi, and Travis. They are very calculated and political, acting like they are on the moral high ground all the time. There is a reason why they are on TV now, I think they waited until they thought the trial was won for the prosecution to start the promotional efforts. I find going on tv in a situation like this completely unbecoming. It feeds into the "trial as entertainment" mentality that should be beneath those involved in the case who claim to care about the victim. HLN is nothing more than a fart in the wind of justice.

With Abe too, I just don't see any reason for him to be on television. He went on one date with Jodi and now he's on tv a couple times a week talking about it? Is that really how you want to be known to the world? 15 minutes of fame is not worth the association with this clusterfuck! Run in the other direction.

I think MJoy is right. They probably had their subpoenas lifted. You can't categorize them with someone like Gus. They knew Travis. Well. Very well. I'd rather hear from them than anyone else. I don't think Travis would mind this at all. In fact, I'd think he'd want someone out there sticking up for him. When this is over, we won't be hearing from them. But I think it's important that they give people who are passionate about the case pieces to the puzzle. We've been trying to piece together this tragedy for months. If Travis' family didn't want the Hughes' talking, they wouldn't be talking.

As for Abe. I've just got a feeling he'll be around a bit longer. He's past his 15 minutes and is still going. Yeah, he'll be linked as Jodi's one-time date, (However, his name did come up in this trial a lot! She also used Abe to make Travis jealous.) But, all in all I think his date with Jodi is forgivable. He does have mad talking skills. AND he's a good listener! Go figure!!! A REALLY good listener! I think he's got legs in this business. People have been discovered in stranger ways.

Pace yourself coconut. It's gonna be a long day tomorrow!

I think Chris and Sky's subpoenas were recently lifted.

Abe has natural talent. I kinda like him

^^^ all this!

[TMY1]

Alyce must have missed that one completely.

Seriously, if Alyce Laviolette had any sense of human decency she would start apologizing now. beg for forgiveness.

If she wants to have any type of future in her chosen field she had better start loudly revising her dx! Otherwise she'd better learn how to breathe fire, swallow swords or lift cinder blocks with her nips because its circus sideshow time! Make your nose bleed you freak!

[I doubt it]

Freaktab;3403825]As I review some of the trial today as well as tapes and witness statements, I am surpised at how this whole relationship between Travis and JA is the perfect shit storm.
Every friend, co-worker, and family member of Travis talks about how they told him to get away from her, that she wasn't marriage material, that she is a a nut job. So, with all this pressure from virtually everyone in his life, he still let her in the house on June 4? What is even more puzzling, is that this is after she fucked up his car (that she was going to pay for), slashed his tires, broke into his bank accounts, stole his passwords, broke into his house.... OMFG, the list just goes on and on.

He didn't let her in his house on June 4th. By her own words, she let herself in and watched him, unnoticed, at the computer for a few minutes before Napoleon saw her. (oh right)

If he knew she wasn't safely tucked away in Yreka, maybe he would have locked his doors and changed his passcodes.

[gigiann]

@coconut
Calm down!
If you were in my group, I'd make you take a time out!

[Harlette]

Alyce must have missed that one completely.

Seriously, if Alyce Laviolette had any sense of human decency she would start apologizing now. beg for forgiveness.

i am amazed and shocked that an expert could cherry pick emails like she did and leave sooooooo much out - thats just wrong, on so many levels - and i wish dr demorte had brought up more of these emails in her testimony - since thats the only way they could be brought into court

"Arias juror arrested for ‘extreme DUI’ before dismissal"

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/04...-dui-dismissal

I saw this on the evening news on local channel 3 (azfamily) but could find nothing on their site or any other but this one. The live news said that he was within a mile of his home on a residential street, going under the speed limit and weaving into a bike lane. This article states that his wife was with him! I wonder if she was wasted too. If not, why would she let him behind the wheel?

Don't hate on me, but let's leave the poor guy alone. He'll have legal problems up the wazoo.

.206 is bad bad bad - and it can't be the first time

Pace yourself coconut. It's gonna be a long day tomorrow!

I think Chris and Sky's subpoenas were recently lifted.

Abe has natural talent. I kinda like him

i bet your right - first time chris and sky have been able to talk - and i bet abe is still thanking god jodi didn't call him back

[Jillee]

I'm not sure if this has been said and I apologize if I have missed it.
I watched Dr Horne's testimony again along with his latest testimony from the other day and noticed he changed his answers concerning the photo of Jodi's foot and Travis in the background bleeding. He was asked by the DT on day 3 if someone with their throat cut could lift their head up a bit and raise an arm and he said it was not impossible. Yet at the end of his testimony the other day he said it wasn't possible that someone could lift their head this way. I think Jodi was dragging Travis in this picture and knocked the camera which then took the photo. Has any one else thought this or was it said by Martinez it could possibly be this scenario? Maybe I missed it, Thanks. I haven't posted in a firum before, hopefully this is in the right place!

Nicola! Welcome! (Holy crap! am I the only one on the welcoming committee tonight??) Doctor Horn's testimony did get a bit confusing, but nobody really knows if his throat was fully slit in that pic, or was she in the process of slitting his throat in that pic. I'm a firm believer in the latter because of the last photo in the series. Overall, all I care about was his testimony about Travis not being able to get up from the GSW.

If she wants to have any type of future in her chosen field she had better start loudly revising her dx! Otherwise she'd better learn how to breathe fire, swallow swords or lift cinder blocks with her nips because its circus sideshow time! Make your nose bleed you freak!

I'm ready to call it a night.... is there a 'puppies and kittens rolling in flowers' forum that I can read on this site? like, NOW!
That's one HELL of a visual, TMY!!

[TMY1]

Hi! Long time lurker, first time poster (Don't be overwhelmed by the originality of that statement! ) But I thought I might finally jump into the crazy since we're nearing the end of the Circus, and I've enjoyed reading this thread so much!

In relation to Sneakers statement above, which I've tried to quote properly, but probably made a balls of it, I'd just like to add my 2 pennies. I've long wondered if Stabby had decided long before she left for Yreka that she was going to kill Travis. Sure she was fucked up financially and all that. And I think she blamed him and everyone else for her fantasy life, (or should I Travis' life?) not coming true for her. So their is that financial element. But I also think that she might have moved back to Yreka simply to put distance between her self and the murder. If she'd still been living in Mesa then she would have been, without doubt, (not that there ever really was any, with the evidence collected against her) that she was the Prime Suspect. But if she was living a 1000 miles away, at least there was that distance, so to speak. At the very least, it would buy her some time.

Of course, I'm more than like than likely talking through my asshole.

Another thing I was wondering. I saw all of JM's Opening Statement for the first time earlier today. He mentioned on the night of May 28th (the date of the staged burglary at her Grandparents' house) that Stabby had sent Travis an email that night...and it was the first time there was any mention of Cancun in anything written between them (texts, emails, IM's etc). And it got me wondering...did Little Miss LovesToTalk, mention the break in to him? I mean, if she was all innocent and shit, wouldn't she have mentioned that to him? That's something "big", and most people would be telling everyone all about the break in. Just to share their "lived to tell" type tale! Something tells me she didn't. And for good reason...there was no way in hell did she want him to know that a gun had been stolen. Because at this point Travis seemed to seeing some of Stabby's true colours.


I've just got one quick question! And I'd love to if anyone here could answer: After the verdict and sentencing are done with; does Judge Sherry get to give a sort of "summation", like her thoughts on the whole thing? I'd love to hear what she really thinks of Stabby!

Anyway, sorry for the really long first post! You guys rock!!! You're so funny, and clever and insightful!!

And now I pray to Baby Jesus that it will actually post. And not up and disappear like a fart in the wind!

Your 1000 miles away theory makes sense, I hadn't really thought about just how early she started plotting. It would be interesting to get Judge Sherry's view on this case.

[loonywop]

I found the orientation of the entry wound that severed the SVC most telling ...

She knew -- thought ahead or was told by someone (Darryl?) -- that she had to orient the blade sideways to have a chance to get through the ribs and into a critical area.

Think about that. How many average Americans know that instinctively? Lucky reaction? ..... or premeditated?

Are you for real? Now she had stabbing/knive lessons your as nuts as she is.

[Freaktab]

If she wants to have any type of future in her chosen field she had better start loudly revising her dx! Otherwise she'd better learn how to breathe fire, swallow swords or lift cinder blocks with her nips because its circus sideshow time! Make your nose bleed you freak!

Alyce has done an almost unforgivable thing.... She let her personal feelings and greed interfere with a professional assessment and she won't recover. I hope she had a good retirement nest egg, because that is what she will be living off of for the rest of her life.

I know many of us take shit from our friends and family about being into this trial, and I admit that I can become a little fixated (Shocking, I know). But, this trial is mainstream news as well and this type of exposure brings a lot of attention from many places. I have worked with a few residential treatment facilities for adolescents and the mental health professionals I know are more disgusted than we are.... She disgraced the very field that she professes to know and care about. This has very little to do with her association with a murderer, it was her practices and her findings that are so despicable.

She presented herself as a professional and her own actions (not Juan Martinez') brought her to ruin. I don't care for the personal insults, I care that she was a disgrace to the mental health professionals who do complete proper evaluations and give a valid opinion based on practices.

[Harlette]

I'm ready to call it a night.... is there a 'puppies and kittens rolling in flowers' forum that I can read on this site? like, NOW!
That's one HELL of a visual, TMY!!

http://mydeathspace.com/vb/showthrea...Animals/page52

[Jillee]

http://mydeathspace.com/vb/showthrea...Animals/page52

God Bless you and your entire family, Harlette!!!!!!!!!!!

[Freaktab]

I apologize...

Welcome nicola!!!!!!!!

[wasthinking]

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/22...ter-dui-arrest

A juror dismissed from the Jodi Arias murder trial in Phoenix says he was excused after telling court officials that he was arrested for DUI.

No reason was given by a Maricopa County Superior Court judge about the release of Juror No. 8 last Thursday.

Daniel Gibb tells Phoenix TV station KSAZ that he was arrested on April 20.

Gibb says he could have proceeded on the case, but he didn't think it was the right thing to do

[wasthinking]

Pace yourself coconut. It's gonna be a long day tomorrow!

I think Chris and Sky's subpoenas were recently lifted.

Abe has natural talent. I kinda like him

I always kinda liked Abe, straight talker that goes right past the bullshit. I think they should give Drew's entire show to Abe :)

And in fairness to Abe, it wasn't just one date with JA. He met her in 2006, here's the history he gives ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRU4NK-7O-g

[coconut]

I would LOVE to respond to some of this, but I'm in timeout right now.

I'll be back tomorrow!!! With bells on!

[loonywop]

BOOM!

That's exactly what I was talking bout last week! Gunshot wound would not have been enough to stop him from "attacking" in Jodi's scenario! Horny's testimony is a weak spot the defense should attack.

Coconut.....some people just can't see it.Amazing eh?