Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[PopRocks]

Travis had many defensive wounds on his hands. IMO if he was shot first, I dont think he would have been able to defend himself much because he would have been disoriented almost instantly

Plus, jodi is one sick mofo, so i think she would have preferred stabbing him while he was still aware of what was happening to him

[wasthinking]

I've always thought Travis was shot first simply because of the trajectory of the bullet and his last known position sitting in his shower.

But I am beginning to be convinced by the many intelligent and informed posters here that she may have stabbed him first.

If that happened, and the first or one of the first stabs was to the heart area - which was not in itself incapicating - how come Travis didn't punch JA out? He was a big guy and was a MMA enthusiast. That doesn't make sense to me. Was he so horrified that he couldn't adequately defend himself? Could he run with the wound to the heart?

I have decided I may skip Wednesday entirely and tune in for closing. I can't imagine another presumed professional testifying on the stand when he knows or should know by now that everything he was told was a lie. Another career destroyed.

I am /was a shot first too. Trajectory and what better way to control a man, knife is risky until you have him weak .

However, I also can see - While sitting, she stabbed in the head first. Note the stab behind the ear also (goes into muscle) stab to right neck (not slit throat)
So those on the right, on the same side facing out, ceiling pic as she leans in stabbing his head. Def wounds; I see TAs reaction, he bends his head down, yet is reaching up, grab up toward the knife. He only has four def wounds :( He starts to rise, she stabs him in the chest, he stumbles to the sink, hands bleeding (pic swipes?) coughs, burst of blood. She is behind him, stabbing his back , he is stumbling, like not really on all hands and knees, more like one hand and foot, but crawling with like half of him ... pushing one leg if that makes a picture to understand... pushing, fumbling one hand on the wall, flops, pushes, flops, she stabs some more as he crawls ... its just a dream that comes to me and ends there.

I always thought though, the drag pic isn't telling me he is dead. Only that he is down, semi conscious or unconscious. For all we know, she could have tornmented him, stabbed him for who knows how long before dragging him back and finishing him off. I don't lock myself into the blood on the carpet has to be where she slit his throat. He was bleeding from so many places, could be she hadn't performed that yet. And she could have had the gun in a hoodies pocket and shot through that explaining closer range and no stippling.

We'll never know.

[Freaktab]

[QUOTE=Jillee;3402968]Well, I just learned that he doesn't wear underwear, so freezing them is out. We can't alter his looks permanently or else he won't be Big Daddy Yum Yum Yummo any more....But, we can place his hand in warm water while he's sleeping!



Commando Coconut?

I don't want to know!

[wasthinking]

Better go back and read it again. Read it carefully, cause what you are saying isn't accurate. Tell us exactly what he relied upon. In english. Dont copy and paste.

lol I'm not the one obsessed w protection of goofy experts or needing to idolize them. And I'm not interested in your anger and desire to fight.
I put it out in the open for anyone to read it that wants to, Im confident they can each make their own determination and apply the information whichever way they wish.

[Jillee]

Commando Coconut?

I don't want to know!

I find it ironic that Freaktab is shocked by Coco's Freakflag!

[DenverClipper]

I am /was a shot first too. Trajectory and what better way to control a man, knife is risky until you have him weak .

However, I also can see - While sitting, she stabbed in the head first. Note the stab behind the ear also (goes into muscle) stab to right neck (not slit throat)
So those on the right, on the same side facing out, ceiling pic as she leans in stabbing his head. Def wounds; I see TAs reaction, he bends his head down, yet is reaching up, grab up toward the knife. He only has four def wounds :( He starts to rise, she stabs him in the chest, he stumbles to the sink, hands bleeding (pic swipes?) coughs, burst of blood. She is behind him, stabbing his back , he is stumbling, like not really on all hands and knees, more like one hand and foot, but crawling with like half of him ... pushing one leg if that makes a picture to understand... pushing, fumbling one hand on the wall, flops, pushes, flops, she stabs some more as he crawls ... its just a dream that comes to me and ends there.

I always thought though, the drag pic isn't telling me he is dead. Only that he is down, semi conscious or unconscious. For all we know, she could have tornmented him, stabbed him for who knows how long before dragging him back and finishing him off. I don't lock myself into the blood on the carpet has to be where she slit his throat. He was bleeding from so many places, could be she hadn't performed that yet. And she could have had the gun in a hoodies pocket and shot through that explaining closer range and no stippling.

We'll never know.

That's excellent insight and I never though of that. I never could reconcile how she stabbed him in the chest while he was sitting. Never entered my mind that her initial attack could have been to his head and back as he bent his head down to defend himself. That makes sense to me.

That explains a lot to me. Thanks.

ETA - if the initial wound was to his scalp it would have bled profusely maybe getting into his eyes and thus he couldn't see JA? Just speculating.

[Lady MacBeth]

travis was at the sink looking at himself, probably in disbelief. at that point he had cuts to his front cause of the spray marks. thats what i can't get out of my head. that's when i think he said fucking kill you bitch. i also believe he fell on her at some point. probably tipping forward, reaching towards her for balance. some of what she described was truth.

[Rockabillychick]

travis was at the sink looking at himself, probably in disbelief. at that point he had cuts to his front cause of the spray marks. thats what i can't get out of my head. that's when i think he said fucking kill you bitch. i also believe he fell on her at some point. probably tipping forward, reaching towards her for balance. some of what she described was truth.

I also think that what she said to Flores about the ninjas had truths in it. His crawling, screaming, begging her to get help.
When I watched the tapes and heard her saying it to Flores I couldn't help but think that really happened. What a heartless, psycho bitch.

[wasthinking]

That's excellent insight and I never though of that. I never could reconcile how she stabbed him in the chest while he was sitting. Never entered my mind that her initial attack could have been to his head and back as he bent his head down to defend himself. That makes sense to me.

That explains a lot to me. Thanks.

I also think that abdominal wound might be when he was at the sink or down trying to get up and that is why it is sideways, under the skin, not 'in' like the rest. Swinging her arm around him in other words whether at the sink behind him, or over him when he is slightly raised trying to up, get away. It goes in on his left, and she is left. If standing over or behind him, it makes sense.

[Lady MacBeth]

I also think that abdominal wound might be when he was at the sink or down trying to get up and that is why it is sideways, under the skin, not 'in' like the rest. Swinging her arm around him in other words whether at the sink behind him, or over him when he is slightly raised trying to up, get away. It goes in on his left, and she is left. If standing over or behind him, it makes sense.

i disagree that she was behind him stabbing his front from behind. way too awkward.

[wasthinking]

Travis had many defensive wounds on his hands. IMO if he was shot first, I dont think he would have been able to defend himself much because he would have been disoriented almost instantly

Plus, jodi is one sick mofo, so i think she would have preferred stabbing him while he was still aware of what was happening to him

he only had four :( Whatever she did, he didn't have much of a chance past a few seconds to get those. She's a psycho and will kill again imo if she gets out and next time, she'll be armed with more knowledge.

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

You guys!!! Poor Coconut!

Can't we just get him really drunk and shave one eyebrow?

Let's find a way to give him jodi bangs!

Yes!

Well, I just learned that he doesn't wear underwear, so freezing them is out. We can't alter his looks permanently or else he won't be Big Daddy Yum Yum Yummo any more....But, we can place his hand in warm water while he's sleeping!

TMI

I find it ironic that Freaktab is shocked by Coco's Freakflag!

I'm shocked that anyone was shocked that Coconut flies a Freakflag!

[Jillee]

I can't imagine Travis saying, "Fucking kill you bitch"... I can imagine her saying it. I think all he could probably get out was "Help me". By the time she's stabbing him, his instincts would be to get away from her. But those stabs to the chest had to have slowed him down- coupled with the horror of the realization that he's about to die. I can see him begging her to stop, but not yelling at her.

Gosh, I'm gonna miss this place! It's been some ride, hasn't it?!

[wasthinking]

i disagree that she was behind him stabbing his front fron behind. way too awkward.

That's okay, we all have ideas, I'm just throwing some out. But for clarification, I didn't mean mulitple stabs to the front from behind, just ref that one ab incised one that wasn't a stab but across under the skin. I truly am not settled tightly into any set of events, except she is a murdering psycho. First, second, last, a cold killer all three ways.

[PopRocks]

he only had four :( Whatever she did, he didn't have much of a chance past a few seconds to get those. She's a psycho and will kill again imo if she gets out and next time, she'll be armed with more knowledge.

Really he only had 4? wow

I saw pics of his hands and it looked like he tried the best he could to deflect the knife

Those stabs must have hurt like hell, I cant even imagine

[wasthinking]

i disagree that she was behind him stabbing his front from behind. way too awkward.

oops, for a visual I should have added, like you know, one swing .. of her long monkey arm.

[Bellaboo]

I also think that what she said to Flores about the ninjas had truths in it. His crawling, screaming, begging her to get help.
When I watched the tapes and heard her saying it to Flores I couldn't help but think that really happened. What a heartless, psycho bitch.

I agree. I felt that when she was describing to Detective Flores what happened with the ninjas that there was an element of truth in that the female ninja seemed to alternately have a gun then a knife. And I had an eerie feeling when she described his screaming and begging her to get help. .... well I felt that really happened. I watched that tape several times. We as watchers have had the opportunity to slow down and review again and again the testimony that the jurors have had to absorb on the fly as it were. Bottom line is that she is a heartless murderess and it breaks my heart to contemplate what his final minutes were like.

[Bellaboo]

oops, for a visual I should have added, like you know, one swing .. of her long monkey arm.

That creature does have an incredible wing span! I t was so obvious when she did her ridiculous "linebacker" pose.
I see a frontal assault though....... but with this freak who will ever know?

[Angiebla]

I can't imagine Travis saying, "Fucking kill you bitch"... I can imagine her saying it. I think all he could probably get out was "Help me". By the time she's stabbing him, his instincts would be to get away from her. But those stabs to the chest had to have slowed him down- coupled with the horror of the realization that he's about to die. I can see him begging her to stop, but not yelling at her.

Gosh, I'm gonna miss this place! It's been some ride, hasn't it?!

I don't think he ever said "kill you bitch" either. I could see him looking at her with a look of surprise and confusion, like how could you do this to me?

[Bellaboo]

he only had four :( Whatever she did, he didn't have much of a chance past a few seconds to get those. She's a psycho and will kill again imo if she gets out and next time, she'll be armed with more knowledge.

WT ....I agree that she would kill again which I why I am worried about a compromise verdict of murder two.

[Bellaboo]

I don't think he ever said "kill you bitch" either. I could see him looking at her with a look of surprise and confusion, like how could you do this to me?

ITA .. I do hope that justice is rendered soon.

[AnnieBelle]

You guys!!! Poor Coconut!

Can't we just get him really drunk and shave one eyebrow?

Or do the shaving cream in one and....tickle his nose with a feather.......and SPLAT!!
We love our boy!!

[Sweet Pea]

I snipped the length of the posts because I wanted to focus on this part, because people seem to think that because people can survive a gunshot to the head that it somehow lessens the horror of what Jodi did.

She shot him in the head! Gabrielle Giffords may be alive, but notice how she is still a little shaky, how she isn't quite right now. And remember that if someone hadn't been there to help lift her head up, she might have choked on her own blood. She was not capable of movement after being shot. Most people aren't.

The bullet passed through the left part of her brain.

Travis had a bullet traverse not just his brain, but into the soft tissues of his face and lodging into the bone. The bullet either tumbled through his brain, bouncing through that tissue and then went at a diagonal to lodge in his cheek, or Travis was shot when he was laying down. Either way, it casts doubt not on the prosecution theory, but on Jodi's claim of self-defense. Small caliber or not, if you have something tearing through the soft tissue of your face, it's not logical to believe that Travis was a threat to Jodi's safety. By her own account, Travis was on the floor when her fog rolled in. She could have run away. Instead she had to go grab a knife and attack Travis.

Travis's body shows a struggle all right -- a struggle for him to survive. The blood in the bathroom marks Travis's pain-filled journey to get away from Jodi. He was stabbed in the back. He was stabbed in the front. He fought to get the knife away from her. His throat was slit. He was shot in the head. His poor body was dragged into the shower and cleaned off. And then he was left there to rot.

What did Jodi have for defensive wounds? Nothing. A few little cuts, a damaged finger. If Travis was so enraged, why would he have stood around and done nothing to her after he body-slammed her? How was she able to get up and run away from him?

The doubt that is difficult to over-come is not in the prosecution case. It's in Jodi's case.

I certainly wasn't making light of the fact. I said survive meaning to live not in any way making a statement on the quality of life he may have. My feeling is all of the stabbing was done first and the gunshot was her coup de gras.

[Wishmich]

Courtrooms are sterile places. Sort of like the Emergency Rooms in hospitals. They tend to sterilize the reality of the true carnage. Jodi Arias must have been all over Travis in a frenzy of punching, kicking, pushing, pulling, cursing-- stabbing, shooting--you name it--till she did him in. I hope the long days of trial haven't blocked the Juror's ability to perceive that reality.

Yes, I think they need a reminder....a visual in their minds of what went on that day, or as close to it as we can come. (Because the psycho will never tell the truth) I visualize her stomping on his ankles as he tried to crawl away and that's where the bruises came from. I think she was stepping on him and stabbing him in the back as he crawled. I just can't imagine what he was going through. The attack never stopped. His determination to get away from her probably angered her even more. I think that's why she slit his throat. She knew he wouldn't move another inch once she did that. She also knew she couldn't drag him off the bedroom carpet. I think the shot came as a "take that, bitch" because he just made her perfect plan more complicated and she was pissed about it. Martinez needs to put the picture of that chaos and brutality in their minds.

[Saffron]

Courtrooms are sterile places. Sort of like the Emergency Rooms in hospitals. They tend to sterilize the reality of the true carnage. Jodi Arias must have been all over Travis in a frenzy of punching, kicking, pushing, pulling, cursing-- stabbing, shooting--you name it--till she did him in. I hope the long days of trial haven't blocked the Juror's ability to perceive that reality.

I also hope the length of the trial hasn't desensitized the jurors. I don't know much about trials but I'm assuming there's some kind of jury science the defense is using and therefore the painfully slow testimony is deliberate, and is a tactic that can work with some jurors. I hope not.

Sorry for the double post but I totally agree, even she talks about what she wishes was different, she says something about lying or "just let him do whatever he was going to do" - never I wish I would have not killed him. She could say I wish I would have gone directly to Utah or any number of things that would allow her to say that without admitting guilt in the way we want her to. I have hit a rabbit driving in to work very early and cried and cried. I did not do it intentionally but I was so sorry to have caused its death. I cannot imagine being in the position to cause a persons death especially one that I had just spent the afternoon with and had feelings for. That is what I find the most disturbing about her.

I agree that Jodi would have had at least a modicum of credibility had she expressed remorse for killing Travis, even if she just expressed regret for what Travis (supposedly) forced her to do, or that she wishes she could turn back the hands of time and not have gone to his house at all that day.

I've always thought Travis was shot first simply because of the trajectory of the bullet and his last known position sitting in his shower.

But I am beginning to be convinced by the many intelligent and informed posters here that she may have stabbed him first.

If that happened, and the first or one of the first stabs was to the heart area - which was not in itself incapicating - how come Travis didn't punch JA out? He was a big guy and was a MMA enthusiast. That doesn't make sense to me. Was he so horrified that he couldn't adequately defend himself? Could he run with the wound to the heart?

I have decided I may skip Wednesday entirely and tune in for closing. I can't imagine another presumed professional testifying on the stand when he knows or should know by now that everything he was told was a lie. Another career destroyed.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to skip the defense's surrebuttal. I'm not open-minded enough about this case to endure it.

I also think that what she said to Flores about the ninjas had truths in it. His crawling, screaming, begging her to get help.
When I watched the tapes and heard her saying it to Flores I couldn't help but think that really happened. What a heartless, psycho bitch.

That's what I think, too. What a horrific crime.