Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[wasthinking]

and even that might have been a message machine? Truth is it's impossible to build a reliable timeline using anything JA says happened. Everything is suspect. Time she got there, did he really know she was coming? Are the "after sex" photos spontaneous? posed? forced? Is the shower photo session really voluntary or under threat?

I think I am much clearer now on what happened during the murder though, after today's testimony.

49 seconds sure suggests they didn't talk. I agree, I've never been one to believe a word she says or cherry pic from her lies. The rest is all just chatter as we try to figure out a mystery, throwing out theories for everyone. Really, none of us will ever know the answers.
Bottom line in court is what the prosecution decided to make their theory not what we think. JM decided the sex photos were what killer claimed, and the shower pics a cooperative photo shoot, voluntary and the gun shot was last. The jury is free to not believe those, not believe killer and come up with their own. We'll know soon enough huh. It's dragged on so long, it is hard to believe we are finally to the end in a way.

[TMY1]

So I won't get to hear anymore about the secret messages?! That's bullshit! I was so intrigued when JM brought that out and couldn't wait for more!

[Harlette]

lol, I took that CSI picture from the 9gag website, I made the one with Nurmi and their computer expert, and the one with the tiara on Willmott, the lobster bib on Nurmi and Maleficent's horns on Jodi.

you gotta to repost!!!!! here http://mydeathspace.com/vb/showthrea...-Trial-Related
we have a thread for memes and jokes now:)

[Jillee]

Question: when the jury starts the deliberations, can they do some research or the only thing they can check is the evidence they showed in trial?

We dont have trials, thats why I dont know how does that work lol

The only thing the jurors can bring with them is their life experiences. No researching. They must rely only on the evidence shown in court, and their life experience. And by life experience, I mean; If there's someone who knows about guns, they can tell the group what they know. Jodi says that the gun just went off without having to remove the safety and sliding the hammer. This is where someone's life experience can come into play. Other than that, it's the 12 of you and the evidence.

[Jillee]

Just the other day I was thinking ... throw out any word out of Killer's mouth and what does that leave. A damning conviction. Self defense is not killing someone 3X over or stabbing them in the back. The only thing that could prevent a guilty imo would be if you get a deliberate refusal like the 12 asses in the Anthony case. But that is one in a million. It's very rare to get 12 corrupt people in one spot to walk out without doing their duty.

Amen Was! Amen!

[gigiann]

Remember in the CA trial ...after the verdict, the jurors eventually heard more details than were presented in trial and some of them held a press conference saying they would have convicted her, hsf they had that evidence.

[wasthinking]

They appear to be very low caliber. Does not really add much to his credibility. It will be interesting to hear Juan's questions.



Jodi will have no legitimate grounds for winning an appeal based on ineffective counsel if the DT followed her requested theory of the defense after explaining the risks to her. They could not have refused to present her case based on morality grounds. As far as stupidity, her requested line of defense would have had to be truly nonsensical before it would become a factor. (For example, Jodi claiming that aliens came down in a space ship and killed Travis.) However, if that happened, they could then claim that their client was not mentally competent to stand trial, and the problem would be resolved in that way.

An attorney leaving the case at a critical stage could be valid grounds for appeal, and chances are the attorney could be disciplined or in some cases disbarred.

Frankly, Jodi's "defense story" was actually a pretty good lie that encompassed all the evidence against her while still giving her a chance to be acquitted. I'm honestly not sure what other possible story she could have come up with to give her the chance of actual acquittal (which was obviously her goal). So Jodi made up the best story that was possible under the circumstances and rolled the dice, hoping to get lucky. If it does not work, it does not mean she had ineffective counsel.

Notice I said Jodi won't WIN an appeal on those grounds. But it doesn't mean she won't file one. I predict she will file appeals on every possible grounds that can be imagined. I mean, why not? It costs her nothing, she will have nothing else to do in prison, and there is always a chance (no matter how slight) that an appeal could get her a new trial, so unless convicted only on the lowest possible charge, she has nothing to lose and might as well file as many appeals as possible. I predict she is not going to be a Timothy McVeigh type (he did not want appeals and was executed more quickly that is usual).

I had instant vision of golf pencils and an appeal blaming AZ for her bent finger because of them.

I've run out of rep privilege for a while otherwise I'd be making a donation to you!!!!!! YOU ROCK!

you are too kind but thanks olga. I play like the rest of us, but it's selfish pleasure. Gives me something to do.

gotta admit, i kinda wish we could send jodi to your prison and btw i miss your photoshop - i stlll bump for csi photo spread every time some one brings up the close up on the eye

you crack me up Harlette. We could tell JA it's a foreign exchange program for her resume.

Wt.... you have been amazing today. I am in awe of your knowledge and ability to retrieve info so quickly.
You are developing quite a following you little show boat you! I am on sensory overload now so I will retire now. 'Nite.

If only these old fingera would work better and in coordination with the brain but thanks Bella <3 I'm happy, I have lots of pens, a comfy bed, and freedom to go to Starbucks.

Seriously--I think Jose Baez was more ethical in his representation of Casey Anthony than this team has been.

I have to agree, grades F and F-

And believe me, I can't stand that guy...

Oh shit, please accept a huge public apology WT. I didn't mean at all to imply you were blindly pro-prosecution, but that's exactly what I did do by wording it that way. I meant that you were pro-prosecution in this particular case, as a result of considered evaluation of the information available to you.

Anyone just starting at that page could've read it very differently than the way I intended. I will edit the original post so that anyone new to the thread doesn't get the wrong idea. & I offer a second apology to WT & anyone else who had to waste their time addressing that section of my post (sorry, been thrown out to mobile site again so can't use quote function - or almost anything else).

no need, I didn't take offense of any kind! We all know how the written word can be easily misunderstood. just wanted to make a clarification.

Originally Posted by Freaktab
WT: I have read many appeals and I happen to agree with you. Very few appeals actually lead to another trial or anything overturned. Stabby will file them anyway because she will never come to terms with her own responsibility.

Do you think there are any grounds? Just curious as I do respect your opinion.



you've got "alot" of........... us inquiring minds, waiting to hear your thoughts on the matter, when the time is right

Soon as the jury is locked in and Nurmi elves are useless the time should be good. ; )

[*crickets*]

Ok, I had a good cry and I'm thinking more clearly now.

As for the evidence against her, it's overwhelming. It doesn't get any better than this; unless someone had video of the whole damn thing from beginning to end. People are convicted on MUCH MUCH less evidence.
If the jury doesn't convict her on the evidence alone, I'm not sure what went wrong. It's unfathomable to me that they wouldn't see what's right in front of them. Common sense. That's ALL that's needed. On top of all of it, she's a known liar. She's lied to the jury. They know this. Her testimony/story of what happened is out the window. It's worthless. They just need to look at the evidence now. It's all in the evidence, not in her "story". Remove the lies and she gets convicted on the evidence alone.

It really shouldn't be so hard. If it's been proven that she lied to the jury, her whole story is tossed. Without her story, there is no other conclusion.

^ All of this plus I don't see how anyone can look at those autopsy photo's and think that this was self defense.

Just the other day I was thinking ... throw out any word out of Killer's mouth and what does that leave. A damning conviction. Self defense is not killing someone 3X over or stabbing them in the back. The only thing that could prevent a guilty imo would be if you get a deliberate refusal like the 12 asses in the Anthony case. But that is one in a million. It's very rare to get 12 corrupt people in one spot to walk out without doing their duty.

I think it's easy to forget that we have two separate issues here. One is the defense going for justifiable homicide on the grounds of self-defense. That's where Dr. Dick and ALV and Jodi's ridiculous story of the gun in the closet, etc. goes. The other part is Martinez trying to prove premeditation, going for murder 1 and the DP. That's where the 'stolen' gun, gas cans, cell phone turned off etc. go.

The autopsy and death scene photos don't prove premeditation. They disprove self-defense in my opinion but that would only throw out the possibility of justifiable homicide. The horrible and heinous nature of the crime (the photos) will only come into play during the penalty phase of the trial, IF she is convicted of murder 1, as an aggravating factor to allow the jury to give her the DP instead of LWOP.

[Freaktab]

WT.... You are on fire this evening!

Well played!

[wasthinking]

lol, I took that CSI picture from the 9gag website, I made the one with Nurmi and their computer expert, and the one with the tiara on Willmott, the lobster bib on Nurmi and Maleficent's horns on Jodi.

That was yours? Thanks, I loved it.

[faq_q]

My company will only pay for four months of jury duty. You can stay longer but it is on your own dime.

Jesus, what company do you work for? I thought I had good benefits but WTF...4 months paid for jury duty? Not even pregnant women get more than 6 weeks FMLA and that is unpaid unless they have vacation time.

Are you saying you would want second degree?? She would out in 15 years!! It has
to be murder one for her to get life w/o parole or DP

I want M1, undecided on DP but either way, she is put away for life or it takes her life away.

Wt.... you have been amazing today. I am in awe of your knowledge and ability to retrieve info so quickly.
You are developing quite a following you little show boat you! I am on sensory overload now so I will retire now. 'Nite.

Google is your friend! I am sure WT would agree.

[Wishmich]

Remember in the CA trial ...after the verdict, the jurors eventually heard more details than were presented in trial and some of them held a press conference saying they would have convicted her, hsf they had that evidence.

That was a bullshit copout from all of 'em. They weren't prepared for the public horror and backlash at their stupidity. I have more faith in the people of AZ. I, too, hope that I am not getting my hopes up just to get shot all to hell. I would be playing the video over and over of how she would BEG for the death penalty and then when she protests....oh, another lie, Jodi? See ya in hell.

[wasthinking]

Seriously--I think Jose Baez was more ethical in his representation of Casey Anthony than this team has been.

And believe me, I can't stand that guy...

darn I screwed up your quote, Im sorry MadameX

Hope you got my agreement grades .. F and F-
:)

Amen Was! Amen!

ah Jillee, I'm so sorry today was your cry day. Mine was yesterday. And I always cry on verdict days no matter what the verdict is. Seems that day hits me hard, the gift of two lives, so senselessness, for no reason. And the worst part, knowing the long journey left for the family yet. It doesn't end for them on verdict day.

I think it's easy to forget that we have two separate issues here. One is the defense going for justifiable homicide on the grounds of self-defense. That's where Dr. Dick and ALV and Jodi's ridiculous story of the gun in the closet, etc. goes. The other part is Martinez trying to prove premeditation, going for murder 1 and the DP. That's where the 'stolen' gun, gas cans, cell phone turned off etc. go.

The autopsy and death scene photos don't prove premeditation. They disprove self-defense in my opinion but that would only throw out the possibility of justifiable homicide. The horrible and heinous nature of the crime (the photos) will only come into play during the penalty phase of the trial, IF she is convicted of murder 1, as an aggravating factor to allow the jury to give her the DP instead of LWOP.

Mostly agree cricket but the photos. They play a role and influence long before any sentencing phase. The scream out it wasn't self defense to me and I believe they will to jurors too. But they will speak again to the cruelty factor.

WT.... You are on fire this evening!

Well played!

Thanks, not sure what i played well but I had a good time with you all. Now Im worn out finally, the rush of the day worn off and my foot tired of stomping about waiting until Wed. lol

[Poppycock]

;/

[Metis212]

Apologies to everyone because the protection rite or ritual was a different date and not considered evidence. It is something that the jury will never know and perhaps they shouldn't. But we know that Travis was stalked, had his tires slashed, his email, social media, and bank accounts hacked. And more than once he was afraid of Jodi.

As for Robert Geffner and his institute, make no mistake...he is the best of the best. Alliant International University is held in high esteem for forensic psychology. Some of you have quoted that he is a hired gun, well, that is one way to look at it, another would be that he has the education, training, experience and credentials to convince the jury of Jodi's victimization. He did not edit Alyce's book, rather she wrote a chapter for a book he edited. Bigggg difference. The defense is pulling out all the stops to save Jodi's life.

I dont think it is over yet.

[BLue]

That was yours? Thanks, I loved it.

yeah haha

[wasthinking]

Seriously--I think Jose Baez was more ethical in his representation of Casey Anthony than this team has been.

And believe me, I can't stand that guy...

Jesus, what company do you work for? I thought I had good benefits but WTF...4 months paid for jury duty? Not even pregnant women get more than 6 weeks FMLA and that is unpaid unless they have vacation time.



I want M1, undecided on DP but either way, she is put away for life or it takes her life away.



Google is your friend! I am sure WT would agree.

Indeed I would! That, time, experience of a long life and common sense goes a long way.

[Wishmich]

Apologies to everyone because the protection rite or ritual was a different date and not considered evidence. It is something that the jury will never know and perhaps they shouldn't. But we know that Travis was stalked, had his tires slashed, his email, social media, and bank accounts hacked. And more than once he was afraid of Jodi.

As for Robert Geffner and his institute, make no mistake...he is the best of the best. Alliant International University is held in high esteem for forensic psychology. Some of you have quoted that he is a hired gun, well, that is one way to look at it, another would be that he has the education, training, experience and credentials to convince the jury of Jodi's victimization. He did not edit Alyce's book, rather she wrote a chapter for a book he edited. Bigggg difference. The defense is pulling out all the stops to save Jodi's life.

I dont think it is over yet.

Unfortunately, I agree with you. And it makes me sick.

[Freaktab]

I don't want to sound morbid here, but I think the verdict in CA might help these jurors make the right decision.
If these jurors get any of what transpired in CA, they will understand the kind of backlash they would be in for if they don't find her guilty of M1.

[wasthinking]

Seriously--I think Jose Baez was more ethical in his representation of Casey Anthony than this team has been.

And believe me, I can't stand that guy...

Unfortunately, I agree with you. And it makes me sick.

He's a laughable threat imo. The hired gun not credible is a quote from a Judge!
The cases I found on him so far were mostly family court, big deal .. flashback to old AVL.
Education and training ... flashback to Samuals.

[faq_q]

Indeed I would! That, time, experience of a long life and common sense goes a long way.

Apparently you do not accept PM's so I have no choice but to say what I want to in the main thread. I do not want you to take offense with my comment, I was merely trying to convey that the quick research part of the previous poster's comment could be because google is your/our friend. I do not have the option of sitting and researching everything I say or question on the web or google so I rely on you and the rest of the members to help. I do think I make valid points and just because I do not have hours on end to research them, it doesn't make them not true or valid. I have what is called a "job" and cannot always quantify my remarks or questions by research. I do, however love this thread and I do, appreciate your input so I didn't want to make you think I was making an adverse remark as to your intellect. As for common sense, well, that's like beauty, it's in the eye of the beholder. Thanks WT for your comments , I will snivel in a corner now and take my lashings....

[lorizfree]

Yes, I mentioned these earlier and was told the older members had seen them. I understood them to be new photos. I am sure JM withheld them until rebuttal. That would make sense to show how bad it was after he was cleaned up. Very sad.

Yeah, poor Travis. I can't even fathom how much pain he was in before he died. I had 4 c-sections. During the 3rd, the anesthesiologist gave me enough knock out med to render me completely paralyzed, but I could feel everything, and was completely aware of what was happening. I wanted to scream, I couldn't open my mouth, my eyes, move my toe, or anything. I could feel the cut through my lower abs. It was the most horrible burning stinging pain that I can't even describe. I tried to do anything to make the Dr or anyone know that I was awake and could feel what was happening. Finally, I gave up, and begged God to make me go to unconscious. I felt them pull my son out, then finally, I blacked out. That was the most painful thing that has ever happened to me. I woke up, and immediately told staff that I wanted to see the anesthesiologist. I told him what happened, and he said that sometimes they can't give too much of the knock out med for the baby. I was like..I have had 2 other c-sections, and that had NEVER had that happened before. He apparently felt bad for me, because they kept me on a demerol pump until right before I left. They usually put you on a less powerful pain med within 24 hours or so. He was probably trying to make me forget so I wouldn't sue his ass. Needless to say, I made sure I was awake for the birth of my 4th son with a epidural.
Sorry, off topic, but I have first hand knowledge of the pain of a knife slicing through the skin. There is no pain that could ever compare. And to think how many wounds Travis had, the pain must have been excruciating.

[Jillee]

Wanna thank Morbid_Much for such outstanding videos! You freaking ROCK! Would like to post this one at this time. Love it! The music couldn't be more perfect! (Unless the lyric was 'blame it on my BPD') Thanks again!!

[faq_q]

Wanna thank Morbid_Much for such outstanding videos! You freaking ROCK! Would like to post this one at this time. Love it! The music couldn't be more perfect! (Unless the lyric was 'blame it on my BPD') Thanks again!!

+1

[lorizfree]

I feel that less than murder one will be an incredible defeat as her plea deal.in 2011'for 2nd degree was an outright blackmail document .. she said if not accepted she would drag him through the.mud and she did that in spades. But you are right .. the jurors will decide and I guess we have to prepare for the worst case scenario. It is terrifying to think of her out of jail/prison because she is downright evil.

At this point, with the juror questions, I just can't believe that there aren't going to be, at the very least, several who will take nothing less than murder 1. It's either M1 or a mistrial.