Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[wasthinking]

Still can't believe that Jenny asked Dr Demarte if it would not have been appropriate to do some follow-up on TA's e-mails to determine what he meant by what he wrote. Dr Demarte responded that she couldn?t follow follow-up, because TA is dead. And then Jenny actually said, ?So you can?t confirm information with a dead person, right??

Must have missed that gem when making coffee.

Lay down with dogs... karma for Jenny on the block. Everything JA touches turns to shit. Appears karma passed the giggles on to Nurmi for his fair chance at court jester s- he won't see the real hammer fall.

[AnnieBelle]

Actually iirc, the question was something along the lines of "If you diagnosed someone with PTSD after a bear attack, would you throw out the PTSD diagnosis if it was really a tiger attack?"

Very different than whether seeing a bear would trigger PTSD symptoms in someone who had PTSD from a tiger attack. And Dr. D's answer ("Yes, that would invalidate the PTSD diagnosis") made no sense to me.

I think it was a case of a really bad analogy by the juror. Actually, a bear attack and a tiger attack might both evoke a similar level, because they are an attack by a wild animal (both, baring very large teeth and extremely sharp claws!) and similar. An attack by a non-stranger vs an attack by a stranger are two very different events. But, no matter what the case....in order for test results to be valid, they must be scored only on one particular set of circumstances. A professional can't say "well, the level of trauma was similar, so let these scores ride!" When Doc Dick said he didn't retest, knowing the first test was based on lies, I disregarded all of his testimony. With ALV, it was when she stated that she did not believe Travis in his journal entries that I wrote her off. Dr. DeMarte did the right thing, by making a diagnosis based on the evidence, itself. Going "deeper" into the meaning behind everything, would constitute therapy. That is why JM made such a huge deal out of ALV and Doc Dick feeling "empathy" for Jodi, and sending her books and such. A doctor needs to separate their personal feelings from their job, if they are do be effective. Psychologists and psychotherapists are no different. They can't emotionally get into the cases of their clients. The reasons why a surgeon can't operate on their own family members is the very reason that makes them such brilliant surgeons in the first place: They have to be able to turn off any connection with a body, in order to slice it apart.

[wasthinking]

I know! This is (to date) my absolute favorite, stupid Willmutt comment! I LMAO! What is wrong with her? Travis being DEAD, is why they are there, yeah?

ROFLMAO she was lost trying to play JM but it isn't the kind of thing you can just switch over. JM used that tactic because AVL made the great mistake of reading tea leaves.
Jen thought she captured the game and was so damn proud to play with the big boys.

[coconut]

Still can't believe that Jenny asked Dr Demarte if it would not have been appropriate to do some follow-up on TA's e-mails to determine what he meant by what he wrote. Dr Demarte responded that she couldn?t follow follow-up, because TA is dead. And then Jenny actually said, ?So you can?t confirm information with a dead person, right??

Y'all are too cruel! Even when Wilma's right, she's wrong I thought it was worse when she spent quite a few questions trying to point out that the witness's findings were her opinion.

Premeditation can occur in seconds but we see that along the way to visit Darryl and Matt, she made a decision to go to Travis. If she was going to visit with positive intentions, there was no need to hide the trip. None.

The slashing of the tires to me is rage. Pure raw rage. We see a build up of aggression over time.

But tie in BPD with pre-meditated murder planned over two weeks. The tire slashing sounds more typical of unstable emotions. Her desire to kill him may have come from BPD rage, but the way she put herself in a position to carry out the crime came from a very different set of behaviors. That's why I don't like it as a prosecution angle.

[*crickets*]

Coconut, big daddy, chunky monkey. BPD is all those points that Demarte listed. Emotional dysregulation is crucial aspect of who Jodi is. As you so rightly point out, I haven't interviewed her, but it seems to me she wasn't able to recover...to self-soothe from the intensity of her rage and it continued to build and build. The emotion of hate is like heartburn that won't go away. And she doesnt have the emotional tools to end the burn. She ended up hating him. Despising him. But. And here is the big but, if she didn't kill him, she would have to see him since he was part of her life.

Hey, watch the language there...you're going to get Coconut excited. (Coco, you know I love you!)

But SERIOUSLY now, there are millions of ppl with BPD out there...what made this one go so far off the tracks into Crazyland? The obsessive stalking, deciding 'I'm gonna kill him', then planning it all out, staging the gun burglary, the gas cans, etc...then carrying it out, 27 stabs, slitting his throat...then going on her merry way, la la la, like nothing had happened...the bizarre behavior in the police interview videos, how totally calm she was? That is not your garden-variety BPD!

I. just. do. not. understand!

[lisam2013]

...

[AlisonL]

I know! This is (to date) my absolute favorite, stupid Willmutt comment! I LMAO! What is wrong with her? Travis being DEAD, is why they are there, yeah?

Holy hell! That's worse than the ALV got her master's in blah year and you were just a child then blah blah blah. Idiocy. JW can suck a fat one.....egg, I mean.

[poppym]

ROFLMAO she was lost trying to play JM but it isn't the kind of thing you can just switch over. JM used that tactic because AVL made the great mistake of reading tea leaves.
Jen thought she captured the game and was so damn proud to play with the big boys.

....and FAIL!

[Brillig]

Because it's better that he is DEAD, than REJECT you!

Exactly.

Good point! And that is why JD's testimony was so much more believable than any of the other psych "experts"......she looked at the whole picture, not just portions of it. Jodi had a "pattern" of stalking type behaviors. There is proof of that. Travis did NOT have a pattern of being abusive to anyone. He may not have had fabulous communication skills, but that does not equal being abusive. And there was no evidence to back up any of what Jodi claims....nothing! No reports, no diary entries, no emails. Just her word. And we all know how reliable her word is!

For me, it goes even further than that. She didn't just fail to make a diary entry at all (might have been plausible), or make a "veiled" diary entry (might have been plausible), she actually made a diary entry during the critical time in question, and flat out said "I haven't written because there was nothing important to write about". That was all it took for me to form a strong opinion that she was absolutely lying.

Sometimes people dont go away when you end things with them. Sometimes, you must be "mean" with angry hurtful words that say "I have reached the point of no return". When he shared what he said with his friend, the friend was very concerned about Travis's well being. It appears that Jodi didn't get it.

Quite true. With some people you have to keep upping the intensity until they get it. While a whisper is enough for some, for others it takes a whack with a 2x4. Jodi appears to be in the latter group.

Never thought she fu*ked up and threw it by mistake. Never. She is sociopathic under extreme stress and figured she was smarter. We see she thought she could explain everything away.

I have actually changed my mind about this over time. At first I was in the "camera went in the wash by mistake" camp. But after reading more, and pondering more, I have switched camps. I now think she put the camera in the washer on purpose and believed that a wash cycle with water and chemicals would be enough to eliminate all evidence on the camera.

As far as sociopathic, that has been my belief from the start.

Actually iirc, the question was something along the lines of "If you diagnosed someone with PTSD after a bear attack, would you throw out the PTSD diagnosis if it was really a tiger attack?"

Very different than whether seeing a bear would trigger PTSD symptoms in someone who had PTSD from a tiger attack. And Dr. D's answer ("Yes, that would invalidate the PTSD diagnosis") made no sense to me.

I actually would have liked to hear a bit more explanation from Dr D about that. It seems obvious to me that being attacked by any wild animal would be understandably traumatizing. I wonder if the throwing out the test results would have to do with a belief that merely taking the test while lying would invalidate it?

And I can't resist a movie quote: "A tiger? In Africa?"

I don't disagree with you. She killed him from hating him and being pissed off at him. BUT wtf does that have to do with BPD? I think the diagnosis makes her more sympathetic to the jury. She's a messed up love sick wacko.

I just am not following how that would make her sympathetic? She was an immature, self centered, obsessed, stalking, pathological liar. I don't really see how sticking a BPD tag on that makes it sympathetic? But that's me. Perhaps the jurors will buy it.

Maybe that is what happened. But then after "flipping the switch" she was such a good actress that she kept him in the dark for a couple weeks while she planned his murder and then charmed her way into his house, bed, and shower? Even when in her twisted BPD heart she hated him 100% she was still able to have sex, take pics, hang out with him until the right moment and then kill him?

Yes. The sociopath I know did that, while planning to kill someone very close, and carried it off for an extended period of time (faking that everything was fine). Carried it off for longer than a couple weeks. The intended victim did not suspect and apparently, neither did anyone else.

I'm just not buying BPD as a complete explanation for premeditated murder. If the prosecution wants to call her BPD then I think it sounds more like she snapped, flipped the switch in the spur of the moment, and killed him. Heat of passion killing.

The evidence does not point to her snapping and killing Travis in the heat of passion. If there were not lots of evidence of her planning this carefully in advance, I might buy heat of passion or snapped. But in this case, the evidence shows otherwise, very clearly.

Don't know where you get the idea that the BPD is being proposed as a defining trait behind premeditated murder. That's not what Dr Demarte testified to. Dr Demarte's examination/testing of of Stabby was in response to the defense's experts/testing/testifying to PTSD and The Fog and Battered Woman's Syndrome.

Exactly.

Can't agrue with that, she managed to make that argument actually. But, you are ignoring what's coming ... gas cans and her lying about them. Planning =premed

I said psychopath and I'm sticking to it.

I agree about the premeditation.

I said sociopath, and I am sticking to it.

(Although I am willing to buy a BPD/sociopath combo dx).

[Iwanthetruth2]

Got bored did some googling.... http://www.umassathletics.com/sports...lley-body.html

So Dr.D played volleyball and was good at it. Bottom of post say she was born 6/15/1980 in TX had a older sister also a psy major...seems like there could be some sibling ( insert that word I cannot spell without spell check starts with riv*) as to who the smart one ?

[poppym]

Our MJoy posted this in memes, jokes, video's, but I think it's too wonderful not to be seen by all!

I was kinda moved by this!

[Sneakers the Wonder Dog]

Y'all are too cruel! Even when Wilma's right, she's wrong I thought it was worse when she spent quite a few questions trying to point out that the witness's findings were her opinion.

If loving you is wrong I don't wanna be right

[wasthinking]

Hey, watch the language there...you're going to get Coconut excited. (Coco, you know I love you!)

But SERIOUSLY now, there are millions of ppl with BPD out there...what made this one go so far off the tracks into Crazyland? The obsessive stalking, deciding 'I'm gonna kill him', then planning it all out, staging the gun burglary, the gas cans, etc...then carrying it out, 27 stabs, slitting his throat...then going on her merry way, la la la, like nothing had happened...the bizarre behavior in the police interview videos, how totally calm she was? That is not your garden-variety BPD!

I. just. do. not. understand!

p.s.y.c. h. o again, she told you 'it's not fair'
bad parents
stupid sister
cheating boyfriends
nomad life
jealousy, not the love kind, social envy at its max, why me, why can't I have nice things I see others have.

culmination, how dare he after all the work she put into to pleasing him. Travis had to pay for every perceived wrong in her life and she was going to wipe it out "had to move on" ride off into the sunset to find a new prince.

[Iwanthetruth2]

Also named to the honor squad were Marilynn Brockman, a junior from Lamar with a 4.00 GPA in business; senior Chelsea DeMarte, Texas-San Antonio (4.00, psychology); junior Karen Lee, North Texas (4.00, kinesiology); and sophomore Heidi Walker, Texas-El Paso (4.00, nursing).

[AgathaAppleswine]

I have a question that I'm sure has been answered many times over....

Jodi Arias is facing the death penalty, and therefore is allowed to mount this ridiculous defense with NO EVIDENCE to support her most outrageous claims.

Why is it that the prosecutor wasn't allowed to present opposing information regarding Travis's character? I don't understand what the difference would be from a few of Travis's friends being allowed to testiify on his behalf and show a video of him as evidence, when Jodi has basically said whatever the hell she wanted to with no limits.

[*crickets*]

Some other Jenny-isms that made me laugh in spite of myself today:

JD: "That would be an incorrect way to use the MMPI"
JW:(chirpy voice) "Let's do it anyway, okay?"

JW: "Objection!"
Judge Sherry: "Overruled!"
JW: "okay..."

And all the "arright"s, "Okay?"s, "umm"s and "right?"s...in that chipper litte voice.

I just kept shaking my head and sighing, saying "oh, Jenny" over and over. I felt bad for her, I really did.

She did look nice today though, I loved her outfit...

[olgasbunghole]

I think it was a case of a really bad analogy by the juror. Actually, a bear attack and a tiger attack might both evoke a similar level, because they are an attack by a wild animal (both, baring very large teeth and extremely sharp claws!) and similar. An attack by a non-stranger vs an attack by a stranger are two very different events. But, no matter what the case....in order for test results to be valid, they must be scored only on one particular set of circumstances. A professional can't say "well, the level of trauma was similar, so let these scores ride!" When Doc Dick said he didn't retest, knowing the first test was based on lies, I disregarded all of his testimony. With ALV, it was when she stated that she did not believe Travis in his journal entries that I wrote her off. Dr. DeMarte did the right thing, by making a diagnosis based on the evidence, itself. Going "deeper" into the meaning behind everything, would constitute therapy. That is why JM made such a huge deal out of ALV and Doc Dick feeling "empathy" for Jodi, and sending her books and such. A doctor needs to separate their personal feelings from their job, if they are do be effective. Psychologists and psychotherapists are no different. They can't emotionally get into the cases of their clients. The reasons why a surgeon can't operate on their own family members is the very reason that makes them such brilliant surgeons in the first place: They have to be able to turn off any connection with a body, in order to slice it apart.

I had a co-worker that suffered from PTSD, I was totally unaware that he had suffered from it, we were pals at work but didn't know a whole lot of each others personal lives. it took place in 1979, my 1st job & working in a grocery store as a bagger and this particular day I was bagging groceries for a checker named Arthur, customers coming & going, nothing unusual, Art & I chit chatting & joking as we worked, sometimes the customers would chime in & add to the chatter while others just went about there biz, out of the blue......... Art freezes & burst into a cold sweat then ducked down under the counter, cowering and shaking like crazy! The checker next to our isle called for the manager who came quickly to help, meanwhile we had gathered up the customers groceries and moved them to the next isle for checkout..................... as it turned out, Art was a vietnam vet and the customers that were at the checkstand were Vietnamese but it wasn't the fact that they were vietnamese that triggered Art's PTSD......... they had simply started speaking vietnamese because they were arguing with each other! Poor art, I felt so bad for him having to deal with this......... he had to go home for the day to recuperate. I had never seen anything like what Art went through before and I have not seen it since, It was really strange to witness............
I know that everybody's PTSD experience is different but it is rare that someone murders because of it! Stabby's claims of PTSD are ridiculous at best!

[*crickets*]

p.s.y.c. h. o again, she told you 'it's not fair'
bad parents
stupid sister
cheating boyfriends
nomad life
jealousy, not the love kind, social envy at its max, why me, why can't I have nice things I see others have.

culmination, how dare he after all the work she put into to pleasing him. Travis had to pay for every perceived wrong in her life and she was going to wipe it out "had to move on" ride off into the sunset to find a new prince.

I get all that...my point is, there are millions of resentful, mad-at-their-ex-BF Borderlines out there. Only one proceeded to stab their ex 27 times and nearly decapitate him. I want to know WHY? I want a neutral, unbiased psychiatrist/ologist to get in there and evaluate, interview and test her and get back to me with the results, dammit!

[wasthinking]

Exactly.



For me, it goes even further than that. She didn't just fail to make a diary entry at all (might have been plausible), or make a "veiled" diary entry (might have been plausible), she actually made a diary entry during the critical time in question, and flat out said "I haven't written because there was nothing important to write about". That was all it took for me to form a strong opinion that she was absolutely lying.



Quite true. With some people you have to keep upping the intensity until they get it. While a whisper is enough for some, for others it takes a whack with a 2x4. Jodi appears to be in the latter group.




I have actually changed my mind about this over time. At first I was in the "camera went in the wash by mistake" camp. But after reading more, and pondering more, I have switched camps. I now think she put the camera in the washer on purpose and believed that a wash cycle with water and chemicals would be enough to eliminate all evidence on the camera.

As far as sociopathic, that has been my belief from the start.



I actually would have liked to hear a bit more explanation from Dr D about that. It seems obvious to me that being attacked by any wild animal would be understandably traumatizing. I wonder if the throwing out the test results would have to do with a belief that merely taking the test while lying would invalidate it?

And I can't resist a movie quote: "A tiger? In Africa?"



I just am not following how that would make her sympathetic? She was an immature, self centered, obsessed, stalking, pathological liar. I don't really see how sticking a BPD tag on that makes it sympathetic? But that's me. Perhaps the jurors will buy it.




Yes. The sociopath I know did that, while planning to kill someone very close, and carried it off for an extended period of time (faking that everything was fine). Carried it off for longer than a couple weeks. The intended victim did not suspect and apparently, neither did anyone else.



The evidence does not point to her snapping and killing Travis in the heat of passion. If there were not lots of evidence of her planning this carefully in advance, I might buy heat of passion or snapped. But in this case, the evidence shows otherwise, very clearly.




Exactly.



I agree about the premeditation.

I said sociopath, and I am sticking to it.

(Although I am willing to buy a BPD/sociopath combo dx).

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...le-psychopaths

almost word for word script of JDs testimony

[AgathaAppleswine]

Hey, watch the language there...you're going to get Coconut excited. (Coco, you know I love you!)

But SERIOUSLY now, there are millions of ppl with BPD out there...what made this one go so far off the tracks into Crazyland? The obsessive stalking, deciding 'I'm gonna kill him', then planning it all out, staging the gun burglary, the gas cans, etc...then carrying it out, 27 stabs, slitting his throat...then going on her merry way, la la la, like nothing had happened...the bizarre behavior in the police interview videos, how totally calm she was? That is not your garden-variety BPD!

I. just. do. not. understand!

There is no understanding. If you want a neat, tidy story to explain things, you're not going to get it.

The only thing predictable about human behavior is that it can be totally unpredictable.

We can float out theories and diagnosis after diagnosis, but really, some people are just born evil. Some people become evil, either because of circumstances in their lives, or because of injury or illness.

Perhaps you're trying to suggest that it must have been something Travis did to set Jodi off.

It could be that there was indeed something in his actions or words that infuriated Jodi. It could be as serious (and as unlikely) the claims of abuse, or it could have been something more mundane, like a phrase he used. Maybe in that infamously long email there was just one sentence out of all of that that completely enraged her.

Who knows? And who really cares?

It doesn't excuse her actions. There is no evidence of abuse except for Jodi's word. The angry e-mails and texts were in response (as noted today by the prosecution witness) to Jodi's aggressive behavior. So that can't be evidence of abuse any longer.

She has literally nothing now to hang on to. She killed Travis because he mad her angry.

[AnnieBelle]

I had a co-worker that suffered from PTSD, I was totally unaware that he had suffered from it, we were pals at work but didn't know a whole lot of each others personal lives. it took place in 1979, my 1st job & working in a grocery store as a bagger and this particular day I was bagging groceries for a checker named Arthur, customers coming & going, nothing unusual, Art & I chit chatting & joking as we worked, sometimes the customers would chime in & add to the chatter while others just went about there biz, out of the blue......... Art freezes & burst into a cold sweat then ducked down under the counter, cowering and shaking like crazy! The checker next to our isle called for the manager who came quickly to help, meanwhile we had gathered up the customers groceries and moved them to the next isle for checkout..................... as it turned out, Art was a vietnam vet and the customers that were at the checkstand were Vietnamese but it wasn't the fact that they were vietnamese that triggered Art's PTSD......... they had simply started speaking vietnamese because they were arguing with each other! Poor art, I felt so bad for him having to deal with this......... he had to go home for the day to recuperate. I had never seen anything like what Art went through before and I have not seen it since, It was really strange to witness............
I know that everybody's PTSD experience is different but it is rare that someone murders because of it! Stabby's claims of PTSD are ridiculous at best!

I have a diagnosis of PTSD.....for me, it's always been something that brings me to a state of pure terror, and I'm stuck in my own skin while I ride out the flashback. The flashbacks are enough to cause total panic, and set off an asthma attack because my breathing becomes very shallow. I hyperventilate. It's more like a one-on-one battle with your worst nightmare. Never once has it felt like anger. It's not. It's just terrifying. My empathy is with Art....it does not take much to "trigger" the onslaught of emotion to come tumbling down.

[M Joy]

Got bored did some googling.... http://www.umassathletics.com/sports...lley-body.html

So Dr.D played volleyball and was good at it. Bottom of post say she was born 6/15/1980 in TX had a older sister also a psy major...seems like there could be some sibling ( insert that word I cannot spell without spell check starts with riv*) as to who the smart one ?

Rivalry?

[lorizfree]

I captured some screen shots of Jodi's psychological testing, and a few other things from today. If you haven't seen them, here's my link.. http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps55f7b9be.jpg

[lorizfree]

I'm sorry, I suck at this. Hopefully you'll be able to click on the pic, then be able to see the rest.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Morticia]

I get all that...my point is, there are millions of resentful, mad-at-their-ex-BF Borderlines out there. Only one proceeded to stab their ex 27 times and nearly decapitate him. I want to know WHY? I want a neutral, unbiased psychiatrist/ologist to get in there and evaluate, interview and test her and get back to me with the results, dammit!

We'd probably all like a concise analysis. Personally, I just think she's a really shitty person. I know that's painfully simplistic, but that's the bottom line for me anyway.