Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death (Part II)

[dizzyp]

Because she's a shameless liar.

you're right.. she's back on earlier testimony.

[loonywop]

I agree .I would love to know actually how many time they got to do the nasty in those months? They weren't togeather 27/7

JA and TA weren't in a relationship as most people would have. They DATED for 5 months!!! The rest of the time she kept hanging around with claims TA was trying to win her back, thought she would be the lottery win in wives. She keeps talking about him flirting and cheating on her when in the meantime he's telling her to date other people and he started dating others. DV my ass. He was a man. He was fairly inexperienced and Hodi was willing to give him anything he wanted. What did nurmi call it? A full pass to her body or something? LOL. Basically I am droning on at my frustrations with Alyce Potter calling them partners who have bonded. All's they did was jump in the sack with some candy and.KY. gggrrrrrrr

[wasthinking]

From the WS courtroom insider's thread, Juror 1 is a 50-something churchy kinda woman who always looks disgusted at Jodi and focuses a lot on Martinez.

*Not exact wording, my paraphrasing*


I think the defense is dumb if they're trying to get women, when they have male-bashing Alyce on the stand.

Anyone else think they are just a handful of criminals themselves with the IQ of one to prove it?

[sheesh]

What bullsh!t Alyce spewed today. Just making up some of those generalizations.

Why in holy hell wouldn't a psychotherapist want to read a patient's freaking manifesto????????

I've been trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, but c'mon!

[rdeadline]

A manifesto is pretty darn crazy! I saw JW shrugging and mouthing words at LV.

[lorizfree]

The whole DT may be worried....hehe

I had to steal this one for my facebook page. :o)

[Brillig]

Agree on Jeffrey Dahmer. He actually confessed and accepted his punishment. Had real remorse for the sick things he did. It's pretty bad when Jeffrey Dahmer is a better person than you are.

Not only that, he was very honest about what he was feeling, his urges, what he thought triggered his malfunction. I felt Dahmer wanted answers too.

I agree on Dahmer as well. He did feel bad about what he did, and realized he was seriously mentally off, and actually wanted to know why. He even asked that they examine his brain after he died to see if it would shed any light on what might have caused his issues. That alone shows him caring about someone beyond just himself, that he hoped examining his brain might help others before they went as far as he did.

And wow, it really is a sad day when we can muster up far more compassion for Jeffrey Dahmer than we can for Jodi. That says quite a lot about just how evil and subhuman she comes across.

Honestly, if anyone had the low self-esteem, it was Travis, imo. I recall either Mimi or Lisa saying that Travis needed repeated compliments and whatnot. Growing up as he did with his addict parents, I'll be he did not have very good self-esteem at all. Thus, Jodi being able to manipulate him so easily and thoroughly.

I think, it could be argued that that is why Travis put up with Jodi, at least in part. If nothing else, at times, she stroked his ego very well. And, initially, he was probably flattered by her attention and focus on him, to the point where she was immersing herself in his life, converting to Mormonism for him, etc.

I tend to agree. Someone posted earlier about how sometimes people puff themselves up to cover the fact that they actually have low self esteem. I think that could be the explanation in Travis' case. It does not ring true for me at all with Jodi.

And flattery and agreeing go a long way with many people. Some people need and are susceptible to flattery more than others. Her saccharine sweet "gosh, you're so smart" comments to Travis during the phone sex tape made my teeth hurt they were so totally smarmy and feigned. Ugh. But maybe it appealed to Travis somehow.

Right, like psycho's do well in prison also. He is working on discrediting this idiot witness, not on premed right now, keep up coconut. You aren't distracted writing your manifesto are you?

Coconut was busy making an hilarious post about Juror #5!

(NOW he is backing to working on his manifesto)

You're supposed to take a drink every time she says that. Okay, now?

If I did that, I would be on my lips by now.

Not gonna lie, I thought it was really asshole-ish to leave shitty non-reviews of Alyce's books on Amazon.

I understand, and I wouldn't do it. However, people are outraged about what they see as her selling out real domestic violence victims, and how many places do they have to express that opinion where ALV might actually SEE what people are feeling? ALV will presumably not read any forums, but even she is probably able to read her book reviews on Amazon. So while I am not endorsing this tactic, I can understand why people would do it.

[ShellJett]

A manifesto is pretty darn crazy! I saw JW shrugging and mouthing words at LV.

Yet it is the Defense asking for a mistrial due to the circus-like atmosphere in court.

[poppym]

Anyone else think they are just a handful of criminals themselves with the IQ of one to prove it?

Me! Twas my first post here! Don't know how they sleep at night! But if you have an IQ of 1, then maybe like a baby!

[wasthinking]

you're right.. she's back on earlier testimony.

She lies about her own "victim" story! Has changed it many times and still doesn't get it right. Read up on her prosecution record and reprimands she got while performing like a low down Nurmi only on the other side. I don't care if your def or state, crooked is crooked.

[rdeadline]

I love the free-for-all Dr. Drew show!

[coconut]

I don't get your hate for her. Geez. She is not the murderer here. Nor is she defending her.

I see her as just another trial famewhore, part of the clown brigade. She thinks she's impotant and a big part of this. She needs to fuck off into oblivion.

coco, I need a JM hater to tell me what witness he "personally attacked" please. ty

He lit up his boy Flores pretty bad when he went FUBAR on the murder sequence... were you there during the autopsy, etc. I think the nature of the complaint is more of a "Martinez is acting like a cock all the time and taking too long, if you're going to act like a cock all over the place, get it done quicker, please and thank you".

Do you remember when he dropped the camera? Reckless! And now he's accused Alyce of going homo for Jodi. I know she has short hair, but that's over the line. How many times can he ask about Snow White? I hope he touches on it again tomorrow, and in closing arguments. Maybe he can call some dwarves during the rebuttal case.

[Peace Corpse]

No it hasn't. It's been spoken of, and brought up by the defense. The prosecutor is trying to steer clear of the stalker issue, since it's not able to be proven. It's too prejudicial to bring up, and could become an issue on appeals if he pursues it. So he doesn't.Travis was not just being stalked, but I believe he was being abused. This changes things, and makes the situation more complex. To add to that, Travis was a man being stalked and/or abused by a woman, which meant fewer resources, and a less likely chance of being taken seriously.

Stalking IS abuse. How would Travis know or not know what his resources were if he did not try to find out what they were and still engaged with his stalker.

Says Jodi Arias, his abuser and stalker. You say "chose" like he had a perfectly normal relationship with her. You are not taking into consideration how manipulated in that relationship he might have been. He may have told her "No, I don't want sex", and then been convinced to give it to her anyway. He may have been guilted into making a sex tape (and a bad one at that) to make her happy, or to placate her. He may have been too frightened of her to say "no", but didn't tell anyone because he didn't think he should be afraid of her.

[B]

I highly doubt Travis said NO, I don't want sex. This is based on the bed photos where he looks very relaxed and takes photos of her, poses naked for her etc. He did tell his friends she was stalking him towards the end but kept engaging, traveling and having sex with her regardless.

I can give you a dozen more scenarios where Travis would not be the totally willing participant you want him to be. There are many ways to coerce and manipulate people, and Travis was vulnerable. He grew up in a toxic home, he was struggling with his faith and his sex drive, he was struggling to find his identity. Abusers and stalkers can key into that vulnerability, and they quickly learn what it takes to manipulate their victims.

It is clear Travis was a willing participant from the evidence put forth so far. We will have to agree to disagree.

Haven't you ever wondered why Travis had so many injuries, and Jodi really had none? Abuse victims, even when they are being physically assaulted, often times don't fight back as hard as they should or can, because they don't want to inflict damage on their abusers.

Travis had major defensive wounds. He wanted to live. He fought as hard as he could. Unfortunately, the first injury Jodi was able to sustain was more than likely fatal. He didn't have much time and his strength dwindled quickly.



Yes, I have been stalked. My abusive ex who raped me? Yeah, that ended in a stalking scenario. Every now and then he still shows up, or calls, or sends an email.
Guess what? I never called the police. I never moved. I still engaged with him for many years, and there were times when I thought that he was going to cross the line.
And lookie here! I'm alive and arguing with you.The woman I know who was stalked? She did all the right things. Called police. Took notes on things. Used the buddy system when she went to work, didn't go anywhere alone, etc. She got a restraining order and changed her phone number. He showed up at her house with a knife, kidnapped her, raped her, and then locked her in the trunk and tried to set the car on fire. So again, I say bullshit that doing things right will make a stalker less dangerous. It doesn't work that way, because there are different levels of crazy, and police can't do jack until the stalker actually causes you harm.

I never said "doing things right will make a stalker less dangerous" I am saying Travis didn't even try to take action against his stalker. In your friend's case, her stalker got to her regardless. Is she still alive? There are many, many cases where victims take action against their stalkers and live....like the author of the article etc. They TRIED. If you don't TRY, how can you ever know for sure?


No, I'm not saying I know about Travis and Jodi. I am making suppositions that are supported by factors such as known reactions of abuse and stalking victims. I discount most of what Jodi says simply because she lies about everything, and has twisted it all up to avoid taking responsibility for her crime. YOU keep saying that it is a FACT that Travis was blase about Jodi. You are saying that it is FACT that he did nothing. You are saying that it is FACT that he wasn't worried. You are saying that it is FACT that Travis didn't do the right things. You don't know that. It sounds like he was attempting to cut her out of his life. We don't know how she got into his house. We don't know how she got him naked. YOU claim that you KNOW ABSOLUTELY that Travis was just addicted by the sex, and therefore blind to any dangers. There is no evidence to support that. There is plenty of fact, however, to support the theory that Travis was manipulated and abused by Jodi, and therefore, his reactions to her on June 4th are different than someone who is not an abuse victim. Do you understand this? There is a difference between fact and opinion. What you have stated is an opinion, but you are trying to make it a fact. You have nothing to support your opinion, except for Jodi's testimony and your encounter with a stalker. Again, this does give you some insight, but it doesn't mean that your insight disproves mountains of data that explain how victims of abuse respond to their abusers.

I only know what the case evidence tells me. I did not say Travis was absolutely addicted to sex. Please re-read what I wrote. I said an alternative scenario could be...he was sexually addicted to her which could prove why he did not take any real action to thwart her. He was not blind to danger. He just didn't listen to the dangers that were obviously present. Remember, he did tell his friends, he was being stalked. He was conscious of this....but continued. Travis was not a rag doll. He was a strong, vital man with a mind of his own. This is clear to me. You say, what I am saying is based on an opinion and not fact. You do see that what you are saying is based on opinion and not fact as well, right?

We will have to agree to disagree, then.


Yes, they had a secret relationship. Yes, they had nekkid pictures. Now, if you take Jodi's first version of events seriously, she says that she has to convince Travis to have his picture taken in the shower. Based on what I know of Jodi, she probably begged, nagged, and annoyed him until he gave into whatever her demands were. So I'm assuming the sex and the photos were his way of appeasing her.

If so...he gave in. He didn't have to. If Travis was trying to get Jodi out of his life, why did he give into her. On one had you say Travis did try to get away from Jodi. Now you are saying he appeased her and was not control of his own free will? Which is it?



You don't know that he consented in the sense that he wanted the sex. He may have been trying to appease her. He may have been manipulated into letting her into his home. You assume too much with no evidence to support this. No, what you do is conveniently forget certain things, ignore others, and twist the details to suit your own belief. You are too determined to make sure that Travis take some responsibility for his death, and I find that insulting.Nothing of Jodi's stalking has been proven in court. Read the top of this post if you need a refresher on that. The bolded part points to your BS and how you contradict yourself. Do you understand that "his choices led him to this and if he'd done it differently, he'd still be alive" is blame? The definition of blame means to "hold responsible, censure, find fault with". Which is exactly what you have done. You fault Travis on his choices, you assume that he was a totally consenting person who should have seen the danger and that he did nothing to prevent said danger. That is fault, ergo that is blame. Maybe she apologized to him. As an abuse victim, or simply because he's a forgiving guy, Travis let her into his house. Perhaps it was ill-advised, but this does not make him in any way responsible for his death. If he hadn't allowed her into his home, she would have broken in. Perhaps he shouldn't have had sex with her? Well, maybe she demanded it, and threatened him with that phone sex tape. In exchange for her silence, he screwed her. That doesn't mean he consented to sex. Maybe she suggested break-up sex, and he agreed, because he really did care for her, and he enjoyed spending time with her when she wasn't being weird. I don't know. You don't know either. You cannot claim he consented when there is nothing that tells us whether or not he did.


.

Stalking has been and is part of this case. Juan even brought it up today...again. Please read what I wrote. I do not blame Travis for his own death. Please stop twisting my words to suit your beliefs. That's right, I don't know for sure and you don't know either. What I do know based on the evidence is that Travis continued...to interact with Jodi with the full knowledge she was stalking him. This is NOT opinion. This is FACT. Thanks for the great discussion.

[Cocopop]

^^ JA moving something orange (cell phone?) that was setting in front of Willmott
& moved it to camera's view-- (see below) Someone mentioned earlier that JA was looking interested when Willmott was texting or something earlier on it... (I didn't see that) just wondered if this is the said cell phone?

[azkarisma]

I'm not a therapist, but I would think a client with a manifesto would raise a fucking red flag

Why in holy hell wouldn't a psychotherapist want to read a patient's freaking manifesto????????

I've been trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, but c'mon!

Each of you hit the nail right on the head.

Just the act of CALLING it a manifesto = inflated sense of self-importance, and/or batshiat crazy.

Normal, not crazy = calling it a journal entry, essay, letter, statement or diary.

[dizzyp]

She lies about her own "victim" story! Has changed it many times and still doesn't get it right. Read up on her prosecution record and reprimands she got while performing like a low down Nurmi only on the other side. I don't care if your def or state, crooked is crooked.

he's a hoot (and a drama queen) :) at least she's not buying the JA BS.

[wasthinking]

I see her as just another trial famewhore, part of the clown brigade. She thinks she's impotant and a big part of this. She needs to fuck off into oblivion.



He lit up his boy Flores pretty bad when he went FUBAR on the murder sequence... were you there during the autopsy, etc. I think the nature of the complaint is more of a "Martinez is acting like a cock all the time and taking too long, if you're going to act like a cock all over the place, get it done quicker, please and thank you".

Do you remember when he dropped the camera? Reckless! And now he's accused Alyce of going homo for Jodi. I know she has short hair, but that's over the line. How many times can he ask about Snow White? I hope he touches on it again tomorrow, and in closing arguments. Maybe he can call some dwarves during the rebuttal case.

Why can't you just answer the question? : )
He never accused her of going homo, WTF you are losing it. Biased doesn't equal sexual anything. And if sympathy equals homo, then the closet is overcrowed. I know what the motion says, I asked about ONE specific part. WHO did he attack "personally"?

[AlisonL]

Yet it is the Defense asking for a mistrial due to the circus-like atmosphere in court.

This just blows my mind. The friggin' DT is the one who created the circus-like atmosphere. JAs family/supporters behave like they are at a damned carnival. The defense attorneys are BOTH inappropriate and unprofessional. The mitigation specialist is just ridiculous and shady. The defense "expert" witnesses are embarrassing. If they should be blaming anyone for the silly bullshit, they should be blaming themselves. Blah.

[Harlette]

Each of you hit the nail right on the head.

Just the act of CALLING it a manifesto = inflated sense of self-importance, and/or batshiat crazy.

Normal, not crazy = calling it a journal entry, essay, letter, statement or diary.

that and asking for an iq test because you know you are as smart as einstien is also an inflated ego

[*crickets*]

no shit! and you know there is going to be at least one person on that jury that knows how it works too.
AL blew it on that one. Made herself look even worse stumbing around trying to justify it.

Not to belabor this, but 1 item, out of a 34 page CV? Really?? I don't know why he even bothered to bring it up.

[Rae Rae]

Only males. She hates all men. Probably had a lot of experience being rejected by them before she was forced to turn lezzie.

This is completely offensive. PLEASE take your homophobic slurs elsewhere.

[wasthinking]

Not to belabor this, but 1 item, out of a 34 page CV? Really?? I don't know why he even bothered to bring it up.

She could make it a manifesto CV, a lie is a lie and they add up to .. discredited.

[coconut]

Why can't you just answer the question? : )
He never accused her of going homo, WTF you are losing it. Biased doesn't equal sexual anything. And if sympathy equals homo, then the closet is overcrowed. I know what the motion says, I asked about ONE specific part. WHO did he attack "personally"?

He accused Samuels repeatedly of having feelings for Jodi. He did the same to LaViolette today - my impression is that he was trying to say there was a sexual interest (did you have special feelings for her) that colored her opinion.

I think those are personal attacks.

[wasthinking]

This is completely offensive. PLEASE take your homophobic slurs elsewhere.

Please don't dig back a week to stir up shit that settled long ago. It was an eventful trial day, do you have anything to discuss about the TRIAL of JODI ARIAS?

[M Joy]

He lit up his boy Flores pretty bad when he went FUBAR on the murder sequence... were you there during the autopsy, etc.

Are you sure he wasn't responding to cross examination at that point, coconut?