Jodi Ann Arias shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander to death

[bryanwasdrunk]

Sometimes I think she called him on the way to make sure he was home and was going to crawl thru the doggie door and just kill him in his sleep. But had to change up her plan when she discovered he was awake. She had to seduce him and get him in a vulnerable position.

I think she intentionally initiated sex before killing him; yes I think she seduced him. She had to prove to Travis that he was hers and nobody else's, forever.
She's downplaying her covetousness a lot. I'm using the word covet instead of jealous, because she already had lost Travis. His Cancun trip with another woman was him cruelly rubbing salt in her wounds as far as she was concerned.

Like others have said on here, she's a covetous psychopath, and the only real thing in her universe is "winning."

[IMHO]

Hi, everyone. Newbie here, but am oh so glad to be reading all the contributions. I, too, am consumed by this trial but have no one to talk to about it! Anyway, what I would like to contribute is a thought on the sequence of the gunshot. I have a friend who was shot in the head. He survived, but lost an eye and a portion of his brain. I realize the trajectory and bullet size may make a difference, but I want to share what he said happened. After he was shot, he only had a split second to even think about what just occurred. With that said, I find it impossible for Travis to be shot first and actually yell "kill you bitch". That's just ridiculous to me. Secondly, based on my friend's experience, I don't think he could have made it to the sink and down the hall. The last good photo has Travis looking odd to me. I think she was flipping out and he knew this was going to be bad. I also think she had the camera in one hand and the knife duct taped to her somewhere on her body where he could not see it. She would use it if he didn't give her the response she was looking for.

There. Whew! My first contribution and it wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. :)

Welcome... lots of like minded peeps here.

That was fun, thanks. I never watch HLN. wow, I can't believe they had something worth watching like that instead of a palm reader or something.

Thanks for the link, brilliant demonstration and confirms what we all knew, impossible and she even disagreed with the medical examiner! Of everything in this case, this way my biggest hangup, the bullet trajectory... if he was running at her like a line backer, he would surely only turn he head to the left when he was about to make impact, he wouldn't be running at her with his head tilted to the left, Travis's height would mean he was on his knees charging her.

The shot came when he wasn't moving and hopefully Dr Horn will be called again!

Was just thinking, if the jury do come back with a Not Guilty for 1st Degree based on what they believe and the evidence which has been presented, do you think at some point they would review and then kick themselves?

[bermstalker]

MorbitT- Thank you for that post. I couldn't rep you again. That explained everything very clear to me.

Does it sound like to you that her first couple of stabs to Travis were not fatal? Almost like quick pokes and one slice?

I picture it in my mind like she reached over and gave him a quick slice then a poke with the knife. He had the hands wounds-probably tried to protect his body at first. He stumbled over to the sink (probably in shock) and she started stabbing he hell out of his back. The back stabs were all in one place on his back-which would add up to her height standing behind him stabbing. He was trying to escape down the hall, but was loosing blood quickly and getting weak. He fell over at the end of the hallway and couldn't go anymore. That's when she cut the throat to make sure he was dead and quit moving.

IMO, the stab wounds in the front of his body were the first wounds. That's where he got the hand wounds. The first stabs, then him trying to protect himself. The one hand actually looks like he grabbed the blade at one point and that's how he got the two cuts on his inside palm. I think by the time she got to the back-he wasn't put up any struggle.

For some reason, I think Jodi stabbed him a few times, then stood back and watched him for a few seconds. I think she freaked out when he started crawling down the hallway.

[DenverClipper]

Good morning all -
I am getting caught up from yesterday and I noticed many posts 10 or so pages back where folks here were speculating on why Juan seemed to have left so many loose ends - like the coded messages in the spine of the magazine, the whole Matt business, whether Travis shaved, etc.

I agree that at this point in time it seems that Juan has lots of unconnected testimony out there. And some of it could be confusing to the jury.

Juan is a seasoned professional. He's truly a master at his game and I am confident he has a plan. What it is might not be crystal clear to us now but as this trial progressed he is going to put it all together for the jury and us.

I cannot wait to hear and see his closing. You know he is going to re-enact those final moments. Juan's closing will be one for the textbooks.

[bermstalker]

I'm sure this has been posted many times over here...but this is what Flores said in his report.

[DenverClipper]

MorbitT- Thank you for that post. I couldn't rep you again. That explained everything very clear to me.

Does it sound like to you that her first couple of stabs to Travis were not fatal? Almost like quick pokes and one slice?

I picture it in my mind like she reached over and gave him a quick slice then a poke with the knife. He had the hands wounds-probably tried to protect his body at first. He stumbled over to the sink (probably in shock) and she started stabbing he hell out of his back. The back stabs were all in one place on his back-which would add up to her height standing behind him stabbing. He was trying to escape down the hall, but was loosing blood quickly and getting weak. He fell over at the end of the hallway and couldn't go anymore. That's when she cut the throat to make sure he was dead and quit moving.

IMO, the stab wounds in the front of his body were the first wounds. That's where he got the hand wounds. The first stabs, then him trying to protect himself. The one hand actually looks like he grabbed the blade at one point and that's how he got the two cuts on his inside palm. I think by the time she got to the back-he wasn't put up any struggle.

For some reason, I think Jodi stabbed him a few times, then stood back and watched him for a few seconds. I think she freaked out when he started crawling down the hallway.

This makes sense except IMO there had to have been an initial incapicating wound that rendered Travis incoherent. Those first pokes you refer to would have been hesitant wounds and Travis could have overpowered her and escaped. Something catastrophic had to have initially occurred (stab to heart or gun shot) that doomed Travis and prevented him from adequately defending himself and escaping from her.

It's so frustrating. My morbid curiosity wants to know how it all played out. Bummer. We probably never will know for sure.

[*crickets*]

It seems to me going back over the ME's testimony that the gunshot happening first (Jodi's story) is completely ruled out--ME clearly states that the gunshot would have incapacitated TA immediately, i.e. he would NOT have been a threat to her in any way after that. Also ME testified there was no bleeding from gunshot to head b/c TA had already bled out from stab wounds by that point, i.e. he was 'already dead'.

So the stabbings happened first--therefore she had the knife with her in the bathroom. I suppose she could have grabbed the knife in self-defense after he attacked her but her (latest) story is definitely gun first. She had a long time to come up with this latest scenario, wonder why she didn't concoct a more plausible story?

Anyway I think self-defense is off the table at this point, leaving only premeditation to get 1st degree murder and the DP. I don't know if Juan has established premed beyond a reasonable doubt at this point. He needs to tie it all together or she could end up with 2nd degree murder which carries a 10 to 25 year sentence. She has already served 4 1/2 yrs so could get out of prison in her 50s if that happens. NOT ACCEPTABLE!

Get it together, Juan!

[Twinmutha]

Hey all! A little bit of funny for you on this sunny Sunday! Can't wait for tomorrow. :)

[morbidT]

MorbitT- Thank you for that post. I couldn't rep you again. That explained everything very clear to me.

Does it sound like to you that her first couple of stabs to Travis were not fatal? Almost like quick pokes and one slice?

I picture it in my mind like she reached over and gave him a quick slice then a poke with the knife. He had the hands wounds-probably tried to protect his body at first. He stumbled over to the sink (probably in shock) and she started stabbing he hell out of his back. The back stabs were all in one place on his back-which would add up to her height standing behind him stabbing. He was trying to escape down the hall, but was loosing blood quickly and getting weak. He fell over at the end of the hallway and couldn't go anymore. That's when she cut the throat to make sure he was dead and quit moving.

IMO, the stab wounds in the front of his body were the first wounds. That's where he got the hand wounds. The first stabs, then him trying to protect himself. The one hand actually looks like he grabbed the blade at one point and that's how he got the two cuts on his inside palm. I think by the time she got to the back-he wasn't put up any struggle.

For some reason, I think Jodi stabbed him a few times, then stood back and watched him for a few seconds. I think she freaked out when he started crawling down the hallway.

I'm glad it helped.

I think it is possible the first couple of stabs were pokes. It might have taken her a couple of stabs to get use to the idea of stabbing someone. If that makes sense. OR, the pokes were administered during the scuffle. Like, she couldn't muster enough strength to stab during the hastiness of the struggle and/or was waving the knife around trying to make contact but couldn't tell if she was making contact. I think the slices probably came during the struggle, for the same reasons I just mentioned. I think this is probably when Travis incurred the defensive wounds.

If Travis was sitting in the shower when the attack started, I think it is reasonable to think the injuries to the right side of his body occurred first. The stab to his pec and the cuts to his right shoulder. Possibly even the stab to his neck/shoulder (the muscle where you rest your arms when hugging your man) and the injury at the base of his neck. I think it's possible she stabbed him in his pec and he reacted, trying to get out of the shower, and she continued with the stabs to the back. He may have been trying to crawl out of the shower, to stand up, and this is when she started stabbing him in the back. The injuries to the back were not deep and not life threatening. Picture it, he is on his hands and knees with his head facing towards Jodi. The stabs were to the upper portion of Travis' back, not his lower. His upper back was in closer proximity to Jodi. She may have been taking a few steps back as Travis was crawling, while she was inflicting the wounds. This may also be why the wounds were not very deep. Too much going on to, at the time, to be able to administer fatal wounds, so she gave several quick (motions) stabs. This may able have been when she inflicted the cuts to his head.

Travis was able to get on his knees, or stand up, and this is when the stab to the vena cava happened. And possibly the stab to the left quadrant. The front of his body would be vulnerable if he was on his knees and/or standing up. I think Travis may have been crawling to the sink in order to use it to be able to pull himself up. When he did, he coughed. IMO, he coughed once. The blood and spatter on the sink is not really that much in the whole scheme of things.

Another reason why I think he may have been on his knees is because of the location of the injuries. Jodi is shorter than Travis. If Travis was on his knees, he would be shorter than Jodi. If she administered the stab underhanded, it would be inline with Travis' torso.

I think it is plausible, when Travis pulled himself up at the sink, he started his run for it down the hall. Jodi grabs the gun, Travis runs out of gusto and falls to the ground, on his knees. Jodi shoots, it doesn't kill him, she cuts his throat.

**********


I also think it is plausible the shot came first. From what I have seen/heard, there is some contradictions in how the shot could have/would have affected Travis abilities. From what I understand, the ME could not say for certain the shot was not inflicted first because of the decomp to Travis' brain. He could not pinpoint a trajectory because the brain started to liquify (it actually looks like it gets slimy and gooey). This is the reason the ME couldn't tell if there was any hemorrhaging, because of the state of decomp. I also think there was contradictions in whether or not it would have incapacitated Travis. The term incapacitating should be clarified, because it can be seen in different ways. Would it have incapacitated Travis to the point he couldn't move? He could have been incapacitated to the point he couldn't fight back effectively, so yes, that is incapacitation.

I've included the definition of incapacitate. I didn't use wiki because it was about imprisonment. That definition is still relevant to incapacitation, but I thought this definition was more appropriate in the use here.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incapacitation

I think if the shot came first, everything I have said previous followed in sequence, just add the shot first. Then, when Travis stood up at the sink, he started running, collapsed at the carpet and Jodi cut his throat at that time.


I wish I knew how to create a video thingy. It would be much easier to demonstrate than try to explain in type.

[smashie]

I'm glad it helped.

I think it is possible the first couple of stabs were pokes. It might have taken her a couple of stabs to get use to the idea of stabbing someone. If that makes sense. OR, the pokes were administered during the scuffle. Like, she couldn't muster enough strength to stab during the hastiness of the struggle and/or was waving the knife around trying to make contact but couldn't tell if she was making contact. I think the slices probably came during the struggle, for the same reasons I just mentioned. I think this is probably when Travis incurred the defensive wounds.

If Travis was sitting in the shower when the attack started, I think it is reasonable to think the injuries to the right side of his body occurred first. The stab to his pec and the cuts to his right shoulder. Possibly even the stab to his neck/shoulder (the muscle where you rest your arms when hugging your man) and the injury at the base of his neck. I think it's possible she stabbed him in his pec and he reacted, trying to get out of the shower, and she continued with the stabs to the back. He may have been trying to crawl out of the shower, to stand up, and this is when she started stabbing him in the back. The injuries to the back were not deep and not life threatening. Picture it, he is on his hands and knees with his head facing towards Jodi. The stabs were to the upper portion of Travis' back, not his lower. His upper back was in closer proximity to Jodi. She may have been taking a few steps back as Travis was crawling, while she was inflicting the wounds. This may also be why the wounds were not very deep. Too much going on to, at the time, to be able to administer fatal wounds, so she gave several quick (motions) stabs. This may able have been when she inflicted the cuts to his head.

Travis was able to get on his knees, or stand up, and this is when the stab to the vena cava happened. And possibly the stab to the left quadrant. The front of his body would be vulnerable if he was on his knees and/or standing up. I think Travis may have been crawling to the sink in order to use it to be able to pull himself up. When he did, he coughed. IMO, he coughed once. The blood and spatter on the sink is not really that much in the whole scheme of things.

Another reason why I think he may have been on his knees is because of the location of the injuries. Jodi is shorter than Travis. If Travis was on his knees, he would be shorter than Jodi. If she administered the stab underhanded, it would be inline with Travis' torso.

I think it is plausible, when Travis pulled himself up at the sink, he started his run for it down the hall. Jodi grabs the gun, Travis runs out of gusto and falls to the ground, on his knees. Jodi shoots, it doesn't kill him, she cuts his throat.

**********


I also think it is plausible the shot came first. From what I have seen/heard, there is some contradictions in how the shot could have/would have affected Travis abilities. From what I understand, the ME could not say for certain the shot was not inflicted first because of the decomp to Travis' brain. He could not pinpoint a trajectory because the brain started to liquify (it actually looks like it gets slimy and gooey). This is the reason the ME couldn't tell if there was any hemorrhaging, because of the state of decomp. I also think there was contradictions in whether or not it would have incapacitated Travis. The term incapacitating should be clarified, because it can be seen in different ways. Would it have incapacitated Travis to the point he couldn't move? He could have been incapacitated to the point he couldn't fight back effectively, so yes, that is incapacitation.

I've included the definition of incapacitate. I didn't use wiki because it was about imprisonment. That definition is still relevant to incapacitation, but I thought this definition was more appropriate in the use here.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incapacitation

I think if the shot came first, everything I have said previous followed in sequence, just add the shot first. Then, when Travis stood up at the sink, he started running, collapsed at the carpet and Jodi cut his throat at that time.


I wish I knew how to create a video thingy. It would be much easier to demonstrate than try to explain in type.

I wish you could too. I am thinking the shot came first too. I think she thought he was going to die sitting in the shower. She could shoot him once in the head, close the door and leave with absolutely no mess. She may have gotten away with it, but he didn't die, and shit got messy.

[morbidT]

I wish you could too. I am thinking the shot came first too. I think she thought he was going to die sitting in the shower. She could shoot him once in the head, close the door and leave with absolutely no mess. She may have gotten away with it, but he didn't die, and shit got messy.

I think this makes the most sense out of everything.

ETA: I think she may have had a knife on hand to mutilate after he died from the gun shot, but that plan went out the window when the gun jammed.

[wasthinking]

I just noticed something, reflective glare off end table in nude JA pic, shows end table top clean .......... NO KNIFE

[Ian 1]

Just reheard Jodi Arias testimony on direct that when Travis linebacked hr and the gun went off, they landed near the scales-'those scale things'.

Under cross examination, Jodi Arias said they landed near the trash can.

Is there a contradiction? Are the scales and the trashcan situated at different places in the bathroom?

[AnnieBelle]

I just upgraded to a premium account....and all the blinkin' little adds and pop ups are gone!!!! YAY!!!!!!!

[Ian 1]

Just reheard Jodi Arias testimony on direct that when Travis linebacked hr and the gun went off, they landed near the scales-'those scale things'.

Under cross examination, Jodi Arias said they landed near the trash can.

Is there a contradiction? Are the scales and the trashcan situated at different places in the bathroom?

[Ian 1]

Sorry for the double-post. I can't explain what happened. Will try to not do it again.

[Jinkasaurus]

Can someone describe to me the position of the body in the shower from the crime scene photos?

I'd prefer not to have the pic posted - I don't have the stomach for it.

the reason I ask is that on the Dateline episode on Friday, someone mentioned something about how his body was found and it was a detail I hadn't heard before.

[emmieslost]

Sorry for the double-post. I can't explain what happened. Will try to not do it again.

it's just something that happens from time to time, i don't think you can help the double post.

i'm not sure if the trash and scale were anywhere near each other. i don't remember where the trashcan was.

now i'm really curious if he was actually shot first. could it be that he just bled into his sinus cavity and this couldn't be detected due to how long it took to discover him?

[wasthinking]

Welcome... lots of like minded peeps here.



Thanks for the link, brilliant demonstration and confirms what we all knew, impossible and she even disagreed with the medical examiner! Of everything in this case, this way my biggest hangup, the bullet trajectory... if he was running at her like a line backer, he would surely only turn he head to the left when he was about to make impact, he wouldn't be running at her with his head tilted to the left, Travis's height would mean he was on his knees charging her.

The shot came when he wasn't moving and hopefully Dr Horn will be called again!

Was just thinking, if the jury do come back with a Not Guilty for 1st Degree based on what they believe and the evidence which has been presented, do you think at some point they would review and then kick themselves?

I dn't know how much help the ME will be if "I" was on the jury. This is the man that was arguing the brain was LIQUID and the defense busted him being wrong and not consistant with his own report!
JW made a fool out of him imo on the one point, because after being forces by her 'you took slices' he had to check his own report and we all know you can't "slice section" liquid. First he can't find a bullet track because the brain is liquid, then it is because he bleed to death first? Sorry, I know this go against the cheerleading squad but I can't deny logic just because I want Jodi to fry.

By his own testimony
? why not, why would you not immediately tell them oh I know this one is first, this second ...
We can NEVER establish that

Yet he HAD established a seq so he is double talking trying to hard to cover too many angles imo.

[smashie]

Just reheard Jodi Arias testimony on direct that when Travis linebacked hr and the gun went off, they landed near the scales-'those scale things'.

Under cross examination, Jodi Arias said they landed near the trash can.

Is there a contradiction? Are the scales and the trashcan situated at different places in the bathroom?

I honestly don't know where the trashcan/scales are in the bathroom, but her entire testimony was a contradiction. Seriously...almost impossible to keep track of all her shit!

[AnnieBelle]

Just reheard Jodi Arias testimony on direct that when Travis linebacked hr and the gun went off, they landed near the scales-'those scale things'.

Under cross examination, Jodi Arias said they landed near the trash can.

Is there a contradiction? Are the scales and the trashcan situated at different places in the bathroom?

If I remember correctly, the trashcan was in the very corner , while the scales were along the same wall....but several feet apart. There was blood underneath the clear sort of scale, indicating the scale had been moved over the blood at some point. Jodi's contradictions throughout her testimony have been numerous. I don't believe she even remembers what she's said, any longer......she has woven her tangled web for so very long.

[smashie]

I dn't know how much help the ME will be if "I" was on the jury. This is the man that was arguing the brain was LIQUID and the defense busted him being wrong and not consistant with his own report!
JW made a fool out of him imo on the one point, because after being forces by her 'you took slices' he had to check his own report and we all know you can't "slice section" liquid. First he can't find a bullet track because the brain is liquid, then it is because he bleed to death first? Sorry, I know this go against the cheerleading squad but I can't deny logic just because I want Jodi to fry.

By his own testimony
? why not, why would you not immediately tell them oh I know this one is first, this second ...
We can NEVER establish that

Yet he HAD established a seq so he is double talking trying to hard to cover too many angles imo.

We have gone over this a millions time on this thread. His brain was liquifying ....there were slides. It was not pure liquid!

[wasthinking]

Can someone describe to me the position of the body in the shower from the crime scene photos?

I'd prefer not to have the pic posted - I don't have the stomach for it.

the reason I ask is that on the Dateline episode on Friday, someone mentioned something about how his body was found and it was a detail I hadn't heard before.

She was wrong. Sad she wouldn't even get the easiest to check details right. Here is an outlined version I made for you

[wasthinking]

We have gone over this a millions time on this thread. His brain was liquifying ....there were slides. It was not pure liquid!

Yes we have but that is what the ME argued until JW made him do an about face. Sorry, it's his words not mine

?? and when you talk about signifcant intercranial hemorage you're talking about bleeding, through the brain right
Right, and at this point the brain is really nonexistant, its almost ah, you can't exmine it, its basically become liquid

[AnnieBelle]

I dn't know how much help the ME will be if "I" was on the jury. This is the man that was arguing the brain was LIQUID and the defense busted him being wrong and not consistant with his own report!
JW made a fool out of him imo on the one point, because after being forces by her 'you took slices' he had to check his own report and we all know you can't "slice section" liquid. First he can't find a bullet track because the brain is liquid, then it is because he bleed to death first? Sorry, I know this go against the cheerleading squad but I can't deny logic just because I want Jodi to fry.

By his own testimony
? why not, why would you not immediately tell them oh I know this one is first, this second ...
We can NEVER establish that

Yet he HAD established a seq so he is double talking trying to hard to cover too many angles imo.

I watched the ME's testimony, and know what you are talking of. My impression was that he was showing he is only human. Doing the job he does, and having done so many autopsies, I would think that one can tend to blend into another, etc. I think they have to rely heavily on the notes they take for specifics. Also, it is not a perfect science, so I'm not surprised that there are differing opinions and conclusions. Many things simply cannot be determined or narrowed down into an absolute. They come up with their best opinion, based on their vast knowledge of their field of expertise. I think he was saying that he could not conclude exactly when the shot gun wound occurred....but based on his ability and observations, he thought it like came after he was dead or close to it.