Morgan Ingram (20) died at home and her parents insist she was murdered by a stalker

[animosity]

WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE.

i think my brain peed a little.

[Cat Pajamas]

i think my brain peed a little.

Also referred to as an aneurysm.

[Mostlym3]

yeah. the one who quoted me.

I just wanted to know if there was confirmation. If an IP was checked.

I think you're referring to me. I'm not Toni.

But I have been reading her blog, cross reading lots of forums on this case and done a lot of thinking on it. I wish Toni was more organized, had better grammar (or whatever). I wish she'd control a bit of the comments - some of those folks are drawing even more remote conclusions and much of it isn't productive - and could be destructive. No argument from me here.

I do believe that there was repeated harassment and trespassing on the Ingram property. I have yet to hear (or imagine) a scenario where any other human would be walking through their yard late at night - let alone multiple people. I'm speaking about the images of humans on their property -- and putting all her feelings and assumptions aside. There is horse facility behind their home, the berm went around the complex and there's no reasonable explanation to walk on it other than to walk between houses...while the sidewalk would be the most immediate path for that anyway. Anyone that lived around there would walk on the sidewalk. There's just no reasonable explanation for multiple people to use their yard as a better way to get from point A to point B. I grew up in an area like this in Colorado. People aren't just walking around like that at night, through yards, over bushes, around trees, over your lawn, around the side of your house, along your driveway onto the street. Not happening. And again, not according to the way I interpret the satellite photos.

Could it have been a totally yet unknown neighbor? Someone from the horse farm? I dunno. But there are people repeatedly on their property, caught on different cameras. Not someone cutting through a yard going somewhere, IMO. I'd like to discuss alternate theories on this specifically.

[morbidT]

I think you're referring to me. I'm not Toni.

But I have been reading her blog, cross reading lots of forums on this case and done a lot of thinking on it. I wish Toni was more organized, had better grammar (or whatever). I wish she'd control a bit of the comments - some of those folks are drawing even more remote conclusions and much of it isn't productive - and could be destructive. No argument from me here.

I do believe that there was repeated harassment and trespassing on the Ingram property. I have yet to hear (or imagine) a scenario where any other human would be walking through their yard late at night - let alone multiple people. I'm speaking about the images of humans on their property -- and putting all her feelings and assumptions aside. There is horse facility behind their home, the berm went around the complex and there's no reasonable explanation to walk on it other than to walk between houses...while the sidewalk would be the most immediate path for that anyway. Anyone that lived around there would walk on the sidewalk. There's just no reasonable explanation for multiple people to use their yard as a better way to get from point A to point B. I grew up in an area like this in Colorado. People aren't just walking around like that at night, through yards, over bushes, around trees, over your lawn, around the side of your house, along your driveway onto the street. Not happening. And again, not according to the way I interpret the satellite photos.

Could it have been a totally yet unknown neighbor? Someone from the horse farm? I dunno. But there are people repeatedly on their property, caught on different cameras. Not someone cutting through a yard going somewhere, IMO. I'd like to discuss alternate theories on this specifically.

Juggalos

[Cat Pajamas]

Juggalos

Nailed it.

[PizzedPenguins]

I think you're referring to me. I'm not Toni.

But I have been reading her blog, cross reading lots of forums on this case and done a lot of thinking on it. I wish Toni was more organized, had better grammar (or whatever). I wish she'd control a bit of the comments - some of those folks are drawing even more remote conclusions and much of it isn't productive - and could be destructive. No argument from me here.

I do believe that there was repeated harassment and trespassing on the Ingram property. I have yet to hear (or imagine) a scenario where any other human would be walking through their yard late at night - let alone multiple people. I'm speaking about the images of humans on their property -- and putting all her feelings and assumptions aside. There is horse facility behind their home, the berm went around the complex and there's no reasonable explanation to walk on it other than to walk between houses...while the sidewalk would be the most immediate path for that anyway. Anyone that lived around there would walk on the sidewalk. There's just no reasonable explanation for multiple people to use their yard as a better way to get from point A to point B. I grew up in an area like this in Colorado. People aren't just walking around like that at night, through yards, over bushes, around trees, over your lawn, around the side of your house, along your driveway onto the street. Not happening. And again, not according to the way I interpret the satellite photos.

Could it have been a totally yet unknown neighbor? Someone from the horse farm? I dunno. But there are people repeatedly on their property, caught on different cameras. Not someone cutting through a yard going somewhere, IMO. I'd like to discuss alternate theories on this specifically.

There was NOT a stalker. The poor child killed herself to escape her mom and her incurable painful porphyria.

Walking on the frozen streets is slippery. Driving on frozen streets is dangerous. Walking on the crunchy frozen grass is not slippery or dangerous. THERE IS A WINE AND LIQUOR STORE BEHIND TONI'S HOUSE. TONI'S YARD WAS A SHORT CUT FOR THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND ANOTHER NEIGHBORHOOD TO GET TO THE BOOZE STORE. Realize that seventy percent of adults in the USA drink alcohol.
https://maps.google.com/maps?client=...ed=0CCAQ8gEwAA

[PizzedPenguins]

It is also very possible that the footprints in Toni's yard were her DAUGHTER'S footprints from sneaking out of her mom's house. It's hard to believe, but Toni had established a 9:30 pm-10:00 pm curfew for her TWENTY-year-old daughter.

The eliminated photos of the supposed stalker were HEADLIGHTS. HEADLIGHTS! Try to grasp that humans do not glow in the dark.

[PizzedPenguins]

That should state "illuminated photos of the supposed stalker were HEADLIGHTS".

[songbirdsong]

The whole surveillance thing reminds me of this scene in Signs:

[morbidT]

There was NOT a stalker. The poor child killed herself to escape her mom and her incurable painful porphyria.

Walking on the frozen streets is slippery. Driving on frozen streets is dangerous. Walking on the crunchy frozen grass is not slippery or dangerous. THERE IS A WINE AND LIQUOR STORE BEHIND TONI'S HOUSE. TONI'S YARD WAS A SHORT CUT FOR THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND ANOTHER NEIGHBORHOOD TO GET TO THE BOOZE STORE. Realize that seventy percent of adults in the USA drink alcohol.
https://maps.google.com/maps?client=...ed=0CCAQ8gEwAA

This is why we can't have nice things! So I wasn't too far off from people popping a squat in the yard or dudes watering the foliage.

[Paul Healey]

It looks as though all that open space to the rear of each property is public land, at any rate if there are no fences it's a great way to get to the liquor store from the surrounding area (like the estate around the golf course).

This is a great story if you can shut off the part of your brain that controls critical thinking, which it looks like most of the supporters have no problem with. Unfortunately, the dose of reality every other public discussion on this matter is providing, has not sunk in for poor Toni and co. The stark reality is that this case will never be reopened, any DA worth his/her salt will review this case and apply the same critical analysis that everyone here and at various other discussion boards has done, and will arrive at the same conclusion. This is categorically not a homicide; the only debate that could exist would be over accidental overdose or suicide. As the mother chose to cremate, she destroyed any opportunity to discover the truth.

As a parent, I can understand why an OD or suicide is too hard to believe. As a complete outsider on the other side of the world reading all the evidence available and approaching it with an open mind, it's not hard to believe.

[Chopstix]

I really hope that the people she has named in the blog are taking screen shots and preparing a lawsuit. Toni is leading this crusade against innocent people and they are going at them with pitch forks.

[nolajersey]

Juggalos

It's always Juggalos!

[nolajersey]

It is also very possible that the footprints in Toni's yard were her DAUGHTER'S footprints from sneaking out of her mom's house. It's hard to believe, but Toni had established a 9:30 pm-10:00 pm curfew for her TWENTY-year-old daughter.

The eliminated photos of the supposed stalker were HEADLIGHTS. HEADLIGHTS! Try to grasp that humans do not glow in the dark.

I watched that video about 50 times and all I saw was the headlights. Then I finally realized that's what she was saying was a person and I LOLed.

[Lumen]

This is such an interesting case into the human mind lol. Toni absolutely believes everything she is writing. I'm so glad that I found this discussion about it.

Anyhow, I'm curious to know if the house is currently being lived in and if the new tenants/owners are also hearing strange bangs etc during the night and/or find people crossing over their yard as a short cut to the wine shop. That could really help put things into perspective with regards to if there was a stalker( I don't believe there was btw) or just natural house noises most of the time.

I'm also quite surprised that the people,including Elliot,she has publicly named have remained pretty silent as the case has gathered so much public interest. No threats of defamation etc, just silence.

Anyhow, awesome forum, gonna go have a look around.

[animosity]

The whole surveillance thing reminds me of this scene in Signs:

nailed it! she took everything straight out of the movie! aliens did it. case solved.

to her credit... she has doubled the readership of MDS. good job toni!

[g r ee n ey e s]

nailed it! she took everything straight out of the movie! aliens did it. case solved.

to her credit... she has doubled the readership of MDS. good job toni!

No influx of stupid!! Please.

[InquisitiveMe]

Check this link out

ash2.wikki.com/amitriptyline_cocktail

[animosity]

No influx of stupid!! Please.

they haven't all been stupid.





oh wait! are you talking about me? you're not talking about me, are ya?

[g r ee n ey e s]

All of them are stupid unless otherwise proven.

[animosity]

All of them are stupid unless otherwise proven.

you may have a point there. also, you have a lot of spaces in your name and i just realized this.

[Mostlym3]

This is why we can't have nice things! So I wasn't too far off from people popping a squat in the yard or dudes watering the foliage.

If the foot traffic is coming from the liquor store, then what's their destination?
A car parked on the street? Maybe, but why wouldn't that car just be at the store?
One of the 7-8 houses beyond Toni's house? Totally possible - but I think they compared the vids to neighbors and spoke with them - everyone denied being in their yard.
To one of the 4 houses on equestrian way? Possible
Maybe they're headed to the next subdivision? Less likely that they're going to continue walking through yards, up and over boulders, bushes etc to get there These people have cars.

I really like the suggestion someone made about whether the current homeowners are experiencing the same kind of traffic flow through their yard. Maybe there is some trail that walkers from that liquor store (over and under horse corrals to get there, btw) use to get to that housing area or something else beyond.

Problem with a known route, though, is that the video shows humans in different trajectories in different locations in the yard. One walking up the driveway toward the house from the road, one across the backyard then around the side to the front, and one coming from the right across the driveway toward their cars. I'm not counting the "headlight" dashing across the top of the screen that she claims is a crouching person dashing across the driveway. Plus, Morgan claims to have seen someone early in the morning on the other side of the yard, while toni claims to have seen someone on her front porch in the middle of the night. If it's a cut through, people just get on their business and move along, not wander around in different directions on the property.

[bowieluva]

Aliens.

[g r ee n ey e s]

you may have a point there. also, you have a lot of spaces in your name and i just realized this.

Because of see below.

Aliens.

[morbidT]

If the foot traffic is coming from the liquor store, then what's their destination?
A car parked on the street? Maybe, but why wouldn't that car just be at the store?
One of the 7-8 houses beyond Toni's house? Totally possible - but I think they compared the vids to neighbors and spoke with them - everyone denied being in their yard.
To one of the 4 houses on equestrian way? Possible
Maybe they're headed to the next subdivision? Less likely that they're going to continue walking through yards, up and over boulders, bushes etc to get there These people have cars.

I really like the suggestion someone made about whether the current homeowners are experiencing the same kind of traffic flow through their yard. Maybe there is some trail that walkers from that liquor store (over and under horse corrals to get there, btw) use to get to that housing area or something else beyond.

Problem with a known route, though, is that the video shows humans in different trajectories in different locations in the yard. One walking up the driveway toward the house from the road, one across the backyard then around the side to the front, and one coming from the right across the driveway toward their cars. I'm not counting the "headlight" dashing across the top of the screen that she claims is a crouching person dashing across the driveway. Plus, Morgan claims to have seen someone early in the morning on the other side of the yard, while toni claims to have seen someone on her front porch in the middle of the night. If it's a cut through, people just get on their business and move along, not wander around in different directions on the property.

If I were partying and needed moar alcohol, I would walk, and walk drunk. Pee on a bush, steal a gnome, moon/flash a security camera. I haven't watched all the videos to see the traffic. I watched the first video posted here and only saw a juggalo alien. Juggalo aliens are like ninjas.