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Thread: Serial - The Podcast. The death of Hae Min Lee.

  1. #26
    XoXo Miller22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statro View Post
    It only just now occurred to me to look for a thread for this case, I'm surprised it's so short! I kinda forgot about Serial after I listened, then I heard the case was going to be reopened, and found about about the undisclosed podcast as well and have now listened to all of them as well. Did anyone else listen? I mean there is a lot of info discussed, but for some reason what sticks out in my mind most from what was discussed is the tapping on the interrogation tapes. That was just incredible.
    I'm several episodes behind on Undisclosed, but I have. There are many great points made.

    When J & I were out east we checked out several of the 'highlighted' locations of the case. I knew many of them from my time living/hanging out in the area. We followed googlemaps from the high school to Best Buy and it took us a different route than Sarah & other youtubers.

    We did go to Leaken Park, and did also go where her car was found.

    Based on lavidity, witnesses (ie track coach, the mosque attendees, Asia,) Jay's lying/changing story, the manner the case was handled, the new avidavid from Walawitz regarding celltower pings - all of this, in my opinion, lends to Adnan not being guilty.

    I believe Jay had a connection - much deeper than simply pot dealing - through his family to drugs and likely became an informant. Further, i beliebe the detectives were dirty as hell. If you've seen the Wire, McNulty was based off of one of the lead detectives in Adnan's case.

  2. #27
    Senior Member strozzapreti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I'm several episodes behind on Undisclosed, but I have. There are many great points made.

    When J & I were out east we checked out several of the 'highlighted' locations of the case. I knew many of them from my time living/hanging out in the area. We followed googlemaps from the high school to Best Buy and it took us a different route than Sarah & other youtubers.

    We did go to Leaken Park, and did also go where her car was found.

    Based on lavidity, witnesses (ie track coach, the mosque attendees, Asia,) Jay's lying/changing story, the manner the case was handled, the new avidavid from Walawitz regarding celltower pings - all of this, in my opinion, lends to Adnan not being guilty.

    I believe Jay had a connection - much deeper than simply pot dealing - through his family to drugs and likely became an informant. Further, i beliebe the detectives were dirty as hell. If you've seen the Wire, McNulty was based off of one of the lead detectives in Adnan's case.
    Oooh I didn't realize you were familiar with that area, that must have been interesting to go and see it all for yourself!

    Yeah, I agree. There are some things that don't look great for Adnan, but nothing that has been able to convince me he was involved with the murder. I know I've seen people comment that one of the reasons they don't think Jay could have committed the murder alone is that it makes no sense that Hae and Jay would have met up or gone somewhere together or whatever. They can't see how they could have ended up together at any point during the day at all. I snort at that personally, because my belief is that whatever happened, it's obviously very very likely that Hae would have approached Adnan's car assuming it was him in it. So I don't have an issue with that part of it at all; I can see how they could have crossed paths. People say Jay had no motive whatsoever, but I think it's just because we don't have the entire story that the motive isn't obvious. In fact, I have a strong belief that Jay and Jenn were involved romantically/sexually, because dude spent way more time with her and talked to her way than his girlfriend. Obviously, and this is wildly speculative, but that leads me to wonder if there is the possibility that Jay and Jenn might have taken advantage of having Adnan's car that day, and been making out in it or something, when Hae approached assuming she would find Adnan, but instead caught them.

    I haven't seen the Wire, but I might have to watch simply because I keep hearing that it's based on police from that area. Oddly, I don't care much for detective or fictionalized crime shows. I only really watch true crime-documentary style shows.

  3. #28
    XoXo Miller22's Avatar
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    Oh man, The Wire is great. Especially since the mayoral character is based on O'Mally.

    It's all but been confirmed Jay & Jenn were romantic.

    As for the phone - Adnan only *just* got it, and this was 1999, when they were new. Not these days when they're prized possessions with stores pics and such. But, the phone was in the glovebox as it wasn't permitted in school (Pagers werent, phones certainly no!) It has also been established that Adnan did lend his car out, so this isn't too odd.

  4. #29
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    http://news.yahoo.com/maryland-seria...151639618.html
    FBI agent says evidence manipulated in Baltimore 'Serial' hearing

    An FBI agent on Monday accused lawyers for a convicted murderer of manipulating cell phone records in their bid to win a retrial for the Maryland slaying made famous by the podcast "Serial."

    Adnan Syed, 35, is serving a life sentence for the 1999 strangulation of his 18-year-old ex-girlfriend Hae Min Lee. Syed's lawyers are seeking a new trial based on new evidence amid questions about the fairness of the case that were raised by the podcast in late 2014.

    During the fourth day of a hearing in Baltimore City Circuit Court, Federal Bureau of Investigation Special Agent Chad Fitzgerald said defense lawyers had shown him "manipulated evidence" of cell phone records when he was on the stand last week.

    "I figured out what you were doing. I think you got caught in your game," Fitzgerald said under questioning by defense lawyer Justin Brown.

    He also praised the analysis of the records made by AT&T engineer Abe Waranowitz for the original trial.
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    Convicted murderer Adnan Syed leaves the Baltimore …
    Convicted murderer Adnan Syed leaves the Baltimore City Circuit Courthouse in Baltimore, Maryland Fe …

    Fitzgerald testified for the prosecution on Friday that Waranowitz' analysis was accurate in placing Syed at Baltimore's Leakin Park. Lee's body was found there in February 2000.

    Syed's defense team has argued that the cell phone evidence was undependable. Waranowitz has filed an affidavit saying he was unaware at the time that outgoing calls were reliable but incoming calls were not.

    Lawyers for Syed have contended before Judge Martin Welch that his conviction verdict was unfair, based on inadequate legal counsel, cell phone records and other issues.

    Under questioning by Deputy Attorney General Thiru Vignarajah, defense expert and attorney David Irwin on Monday repeated his testimony from last week, saying that Syed's original lawyer, Cristina Gutierrez, had failed to contact a possible alibi witness.

    Irwin said that Gutierrez's skills were slipping at the time of the Syed trial. She was later disbarred and died in 2004.
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    Convicted murderer Adnan Syed leaves the Baltimore …
    Convicted murderer Adnan Syed leaves the Baltimore City Circuit Courthouse in Baltimore, Maryland Fe …

    The witness, Asia McClain Chapman, said on the witness stand last week that she spoke with Syed at a library the day that Lee went missing.

    Under defense questioning, a security guard at the library who testified anonymously said that he could not recall seeing Syed there that day. Syed's legal team rested its case on Monday.

    In a statement released through the Maryland Attorney General's Office on Sunday, Lee's family said that the original trial had shown that Syed was guilty.

    "The events of this past week have reopened wounds few can imagine," the family said.
    http://news.yahoo.com/hearing-serial...184151378.html

    Hearing on 'Serial' murder case wraps up in Baltimore

    A Maryland hearing on whether to grant a retrial to a man whose murder conviction was made famous by the podcast "Serial" wrapped up on Tuesday, with a prosecutor saying the judge in the case should not be swayed by intense publicity.

    Attorneys for Adnan Syed, 35, who is serving a life sentence for the 1999 strangulation of his 18-year-old ex-girlfriend, Hae Min Lee, are seeking a new trial based on new evidence. The podcast in late 2014 raised questions about the original case against Syed.

    Judge Martin Welch will decide whether a retrial is warranted.

    In closing arguments in Baltimore City Circuit Court, Deputy Attorney General Thiru Vignarajah said Syed was guilty and had been convicted after a vigorous defense.

    "Justice does not bend to the fashionable position of the moment," he told Welch, noting the "extraordinary attention" drawn to Syed's case by "Serial." The podcast by Chicago public radio station WBEZ has been downloaded tens of millions of times.

    Vignarajah rejected arguments by Syed's lawyers that his original defense team had failed to call a key alibi witness. He said Syed had been heard vowing to kill Lee after their breakup.

    "It should be treated like any other case," Vignarajah said.

    Syed's lawyer, Justin Brown, said that he had investigated at least 70 criminal cases in which the defense had to interview potential alibi witnesses.

    He said it was unusual for defense lawyers to overlook a witness with an alibi that could place Syed away from the scene of the crime.

    A former high school classmate of Syed, Asia McClain Chapman, testified last week that she had spoken with him at a library on the day that Lee went missing and that he appeared calm.

    Syed's lawyers have also argued that cell phone evidence placing him at the park where Lee was found buried was flawed and that his original attorney, Cristina Gutierrez, had failing skills when she defended him. She later was disbarred, and died in 2004.

    The five-day hearing was to weigh potential evidence that was not used in previous proceedings or that may have been misinterpreted.

    A court spokeswoman said Welch would issue a written opinion but there was no time frame.

    After the proceeding, Brown read a statement from Syed saying that he was "incredibly grateful" to his supporters and thanked loved ones.

    "I intend to keep fighting to prove my innocence," Syed said.

  5. #30
    Senior Member brie's Avatar
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    I'm surprised this thread is so short. I am so obsessed with this case. It is driving me crazy...I will forever be asking WHO KILLED HAE MIN LEE!!

    I just started Adnan's Story. Good read so far by his best friend's sister, Rabia Chaudry... (Also from Undisclosed)

    I have only read 2 chapters so my opinion right now is not influenced by her book. I didn't finish Undisclosed either.


    I do not believe Adnan was involved in the murder. I also do not believe Jay was either.
    DON! DON! DON! Huge red flag with Don. His alibi makes absolutely no sense and that his mom and step-mom vouched for him... Get outta here!

    I do believe drugs may have been involved with Adnan and Jay and that could be the root of the shadiness.
    Quote Originally Posted by marakisses
    yes i said i will leave it under you storage he said cuddle with me i said shut up it over??? what am i doing wrong??

  6. #31
    XoXo Miller22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brie View Post
    I'm surprised this thread is so short. I am so obsessed with this case. It is driving me crazy...I will forever be asking WHO KILLED HAE MIN LEE!!

    I just started Adnan's Story. Good read so far by his best friend's sister, Rabia Chaudry... (Also from Undisclosed)

    I have only read 2 chapters so my opinion right now is not influenced by her book. I didn't finish Undisclosed either.


    I do not believe Adnan was involved in the murder. I also do not believe Jay was either.
    DON! DON! DON! Huge red flag with Don. His alibi makes absolutely no sense and that his mom and step-mom vouched for him... Get outta here!

    I do believe drugs may have been involved with Adnan and Jay and that could be the root of the shadiness.
    Thanks for talking about tge book. Ive heatd mixed reviews. I didnt finish undisclosed either and wasn't sure if I should bother.

  7. #32
    Senior Member brie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    Thanks for talking about tge book. Ive heatd mixed reviews. I didnt finish undisclosed either and wasn't sure if I should bother.
    I'm actually listening to it so I can listen while I drive.
    There are a lot more details in her book than picked up from elsewhere.
    Who do you think did it?
    Quote Originally Posted by marakisses
    yes i said i will leave it under you storage he said cuddle with me i said shut up it over??? what am i doing wrong??

  8. #33
    XoXo Miller22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brie View Post
    I'm actually listening to it so I can listen while I drive.
    There are a lot more details in her book than picked up from elsewhere.
    Who do you think did it?
    I think Jay had something to do with it because of his family. I don't really think Don did.

    People say Adnan didn't have an alibi for later in the evening, but he was at prayer with how many damn people!?

  9. #34
    Senior Member brie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller22 View Post
    I think Jay had something to do with it because of his family. I don't really think Don did.

    People say Adnan didn't have an alibi for later in the evening, but he was at prayer with how many damn people!?
    I've seen many people believe Jay and Jen. I can't figure out what Jay's motive would be.

    There are weird things like that with Adnan for sure, but then I think, well could I tell someone what I did 2 weeks ago,etc? Nope! Unless it was in my calendar.
    And I definitely wouldn't be able to tell you what someone else did that day. You can definitely tell people got days mixed up, example being Hae's wrestling match.
    Quote Originally Posted by marakisses
    yes i said i will leave it under you storage he said cuddle with me i said shut up it over??? what am i doing wrong??

  10. #35
    Senior Member FadeAway131's Avatar
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    So I know this thread is a smidge old and I haven't posted anything in freakin forever, but I have started listening to this podcast and I am hooked. My brother suggested it a long time ago because he knows I love true crime documentaries and I wish I had gotten to it sooner! I was hoping there was more discussion than what there is :( Ive been an MDS member for around 10 years but I lurk more than talk :)

    Also, I do have a few more episodes to go but I keep on thinking that if Adnan is innocent and Jay knows a lot of pertinent info, why the eff is he not accusing Jay of it? Am I speaking too soon?
    I have the choice of being constantly active and happy or introspectively passive and sad. Or I can go mad by ricocheting in between.
    ― Sylvia Plath

  11. #36
    Senior Member sdhoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FadeAway131 View Post
    So I know this thread is a smidge old and I haven't posted anything in freakin forever, but I have started listening to this podcast and I am hooked. My brother suggested it a long time ago because he knows I love true crime documentaries and I wish I had gotten to it sooner! I was hoping there was more discussion than what there is :( Ive been an MDS member for around 10 years but I lurk more than talk :)

    Also, I do have a few more episodes to go but I keep on thinking that if Adnan is innocent and Jay knows a lot of pertinent info, why the eff is he not accusing Jay of it? Am I speaking too soon?
    You may be speaking too soon. A ton happens in the next few episodes. After you're finished, look up any new developments judicially that have also happened since serial came out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FadeAway131 View Post
    So I know this thread is a smidge old and I haven't posted anything in freakin forever, but I have started listening to this podcast and I am hooked. My brother suggested it a long time ago because he knows I love true crime documentaries and I wish I had gotten to it sooner! I was hoping there was more discussion than what there is :( Ive been an MDS member for around 10 years but I lurk more than talk :)

    Also, I do have a few more episodes to go but I keep on thinking that if Adnan is innocent and Jay knows a lot of pertinent info, why the eff is he not accusing Jay of it? Am I speaking too soon?
    I?m a lurker too and I?m surprised there isn?t more in this case on here!
    I think Jay seems to know more but I also think Don looks really suspicious.
    I don?t think Adnan did it but at the same time, I JUST DONT KNOW! He seems to not really care AT ALL during his interviews that he?s even in prison.
    Everything is so confusing!!

  13. #38
    Senior Member soultosqueeze's Avatar
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    I cannot believe this case! And his appeal was just denied...

    https://www.wltx.com/article/news/na...e-883a620822ac

  14. #39
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    https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/25/polit...der/index.html

    The Supreme Court on Monday declined to review the case of Adnan Syed, whose murder conviction was the focus of the first season of the popular "Serial" podcast.
    Lawyers for Syed had petitioned the high court to take up the case in August, asking the nine justices to reverse a March ruling by the Maryland Court of Appeals that refused to grant Syed a new trial as he serves a life sentence in the slaying of his ex-girlfriend, Hae Min Lee, in 1999.

    The petition, filed by lawyers C. Justin Brown and Catherine Stetson along with other lawyers at the Washington law firm Hogan Lovells, stated that that basis for the Supreme Court to take up the case rested on the "straightforward legal issue" of ineffective counsel provided by Syed's trial attorney, Cristina Gutierrez, who is deceased.

    "At least 10 state and federal courts apply a simple approach: They compare the case that the State actually presented at trial with the case that the defendant would have presented if his attorney had been effective," the petition stated, citing in part Gutierrez's failure to call an alibi witness.

    "The Maryland Court of Appeals departed from the majority approach and found no prejudice despite the failure of Syed's counsel to present an alibi witness for the exact time that the State says he committed murder. There are no vehicle problems to reaching the question at issue, which has been briefed and argued throughout three state courts. Syed should have the opportunity to present his alibi to a jury, and the jury -- not the Maryland Court of Appeals -- should decide its worth," the petition states.

    Syed and Lee were seniors at Woodlawn High School in Baltimore County in January 1999 when she disappeared. Her strangled body was discovered in a city forest three weeks later.

    A jury in the Circuit Court for Baltimore City convicted Syed of first-degree murder, robbery, kidnapping and false imprisonment on February 25, 2000. During the trial one of his friends, Jay Wilds, testified that he helped Syed dig a hole for Lee's body.

  15. #40
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    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/14/us/do...rnd/index.html

    Nearly 24 years after the death of 23-year-old Shawn Marie Neal, police in South Carolina say they have identified the man who killed her using newly discovered DNA evidence.

    Ronald Lee Moore, a suspected serial burglar from Baltimore County, Maryland, has been identified as Neal's killer, according to the North Myrtle Beach police. Moore committed suicide while incarcerated in St. Charles Parish, Louisiana, in 2008.

    Moore was named as a possible suspect in the 1999 killing of Hae Min Lee in Baltimore, one of the cases which became a topic during the first season of the popular crime podcast "Serial." However, DNA from evidence of the Lee case did not match Moore's.

    Neal was reported missing by her boyfriend in June 1996 after she had left to meet a man named Don Gibson, but never returned home. When police conducted a welfare check at a North Myrtle Beach condo, Neal was found strangled to death, according to the official police report.

    Police later concluded that Don Gibson was a fake name. A search of the area found several items from the crime scene located in a nearby dumpster. But after failing to identify any suspects or leads in Neal's death, the case went cold and the investigation became inactive.

    However, the North Myrtle Beach Police Department reopened the case in November 2017 due to advances in DNA collection, according to a department news release.
    Numerous parties involved in the case were interviewed, and physical evidence from the case were sent to the Richland County Sheriff's Department Forensics Lab in Columbia, South Carolina, the police report said.

    Thanks to modern advancements in DNA technology, the lab identified previously undiscovered DNA of an unknown suspect on evidence found in the dumpster. The DNA matched DNA found on Neal's inner clothing.

    The new DNA was entered into a national DNA database and matched a DNA profile belonging to Moore.

    "Further investigation revealed that Moore had also been named a suspect in a series of burglaries, unsolved sexual assault cases and an additional unsolved homicide case from Baltimore County (Maryland) in 1999," according to the news release. "Review of these case files revealed striking similarities between Moore's suspected victims in Maryland and the Neal homicide in North Myrtle Beach."

    While Moore did not frequently visit or live in North Myrtle Beach, detectives discovered that he had friends he would visit in Louisiana. Police believed that Moore might have passed through Myrtle Beach in the summer of 1996 while traveling from Maryland to Louisiana.

    Investigators have determined that probable cause exists to charge Moore. But since he died in jail on an unrelated charge, he cannot be formally charged or tried for Neal's killing. Investigators, however, have closed the case of Neal.

  16. #41
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    https://people.com/crime/baltimore-p...for-new-trial/

    Baltimore Prosecutors File Motion to Vacate Murder Conviction of Adnan Syed, Ask For New Trial

  17. #42
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    https://people.com/crime/baltimore-p...for-new-trial/

    Baltimore Prosecutors File Motion to Vacate Murder Conviction of Adnan Syed, Ask For New Trial
    I actually believe he's innocent so this is a good thing.
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  18. #43
    Senior Member of_corpse_not's Avatar
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    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ased-rcna48313

    BALTIMORE ? A judge on Monday vacated the murder conviction of Adnan Syed, years after the hit podcast ?Serial? chronicled his case and cast doubt on his role in the 1999 slaying of former girlfriend Hae Min Lee.

    City Circuit Court Judge Melissa Phinn said prosecutors made a compelling argument that Syed's conviction was flawed and that he should immediately go free.

    Trial prosecutors did not properly turn over evidence to defense lawyers that could have helped them show someone else killed Lee, Phinn said. And new evidence uncovered since the trial would have added ?substantial and significant probability that the result would have been different.?

    Phinn vacated murder, kidnapping, robbery and false imprisonment against Syed. The judge ordered him released without bail.

    Moments before the ruling, prosecutor Becky Feldman said that "justice and fairness" calls for Syed's convictions to be tossed.

    ?The state has lost confidence in the integrity of this convection and believe that it is in the interest of justice and fairness that his convictions be vacated," Feldman said.
    ?It is our promise that we will do everything we can to bring justice to the Lee family. That means continuing to utilize all available resources to bring a suspect or suspects to justice and hold them accountable."

    Syed, who has a full beard, appeared in court wearing a long-sleeve white dress shirt, dark tie and traditional Muslim skull cap. And when Phinn ordered guards to ?remove his shackles,? Syed's supporters inside the courtroom burst in applause.

    Judge Phinn gave the state 30 days to decide whether to seek a new trial or potentially stop the case.

    Outside court, Baltimore City State?s Attorney Marilyn Mosby was hailing the judge's ruling when Syed stepped outside, greeted with cheers and then shown into an awaiting car before being driven off.

  19. #44
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by of_corpse_not View Post
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ased-rcna48313

    BALTIMORE ? A judge on Monday vacated the murder conviction of Adnan Syed, years after the hit podcast ?Serial? chronicled his case and cast doubt on his role in the 1999 slaying of former girlfriend Hae Min Lee.

    City Circuit Court Judge Melissa Phinn said prosecutors made a compelling argument that Syed's conviction was flawed and that he should immediately go free.

    Trial prosecutors did not properly turn over evidence to defense lawyers that could have helped them show someone else killed Lee, Phinn said. And new evidence uncovered since the trial would have added ?substantial and significant probability that the result would have been different.?

    Phinn vacated murder, kidnapping, robbery and false imprisonment against Syed. The judge ordered him released without bail.

    Moments before the ruling, prosecutor Becky Feldman said that "justice and fairness" calls for Syed's convictions to be tossed.

    ?The state has lost confidence in the integrity of this convection and believe that it is in the interest of justice and fairness that his convictions be vacated," Feldman said.
    ?It is our promise that we will do everything we can to bring justice to the Lee family. That means continuing to utilize all available resources to bring a suspect or suspects to justice and hold them accountable."

    Syed, who has a full beard, appeared in court wearing a long-sleeve white dress shirt, dark tie and traditional Muslim skull cap. And when Phinn ordered guards to ?remove his shackles,? Syed's supporters inside the courtroom burst in applause.

    Judge Phinn gave the state 30 days to decide whether to seek a new trial or potentially stop the case.

    Outside court, Baltimore City State?s Attorney Marilyn Mosby was hailing the judge's ruling when Syed stepped outside, greeted with cheers and then shown into an awaiting car before being driven off.
    I've been following this on Twitter. Rabia has worked TIRELESSLY for this to happen. I'm convinced that he wasn't involved so this makes me so happy.
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  20. #45
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    DICK TIPS
    Quote Originally Posted by Nic B View Post
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  21. #46
    Senior Member of_corpse_not's Avatar
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  22. #47
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    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/28/u...einstated.html

    Court Reinstates Adnan Syed’s Murder Conviction in ‘Serial’ Case and Orders New Hearing

    The Appellate Court of Maryland ruled that a trial court had violated the right of Young Lee, brother of Hae Min Lee, the victim, to have been notified of and to attend the hearing in September when a judge vacated Mr. Syed’s conviction.
    Last edited by raisedbywolves; 03-29-2023 at 03:32 PM.

  23. #48
    What do you care? Boston Babe 73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbywolves View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/28/u...einstated.html

    Court Reinstates Adnan Syed’s Murder Conviction in ‘Serial’ Case and Orders New Hearing
    This is some bullshit. That family didn't attend any of the previous hearings and all of a sudden they're pulling this? The courts have a hard on for him because he's Muslim. That's the bottom line. DNA proves he wasn't involved and they're doing nothing to go after the guys that DID kill her. They have a DNA match on one of them. Where's the news on that instead of pouring salt in to the wound of an innocent man that already spent 23 years behind bars for a crime he didn't commit?

    ETA: for the record, they DID inform them and gave them a week's notice. The family are arguing that it wasn't enough advanced notice
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