[quote author=death_roe link=topic=4359.msg208878#msg208878 date=1172825902]
Hey doubting Thomas, your point makes me question something he said....
Mom signed on and told him yet her voice sounded like Lizz's...I don't understand that. Signed on where? Something may be off indeed...
[/quote]
i saw that too but i guess i assumed that they talked on the phone after he found out when they were talking on the internet.
im so naive!
Originally Posted by marakisses
i would think tina would act like a BIA if she were to ever come here...
I am more than willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but..
A:Heroin discussion in Haiku's,
B" "Talked to Elizabeth's mother, whom he thought was Elizabeth.( I can believe that part. My Aunts say I sound just like my mother)
C: Over a month to find about her death.
D: Obviously, lived close enough to walk. ( The shoes reference)
OK that's enough. I am not a detective, nor do I wish to be one. I am rolling away from the keyboard.
All of you suck. I said that she signed on, and that I called her right after first of all. Next, walking distance meaning 9 miles. I am a distance runner but I didn't have a pair of sneakers then. Exactly why I said I will walk there ... when I get sneakers. As for the idiot that said that I thought that it was lizz on the phone. My exact statement was "Her mothers voice sounded a lot like lizz's". Also, I don't share any of the same friends as her. I don't even know why I am here all depressed wasting time trying to justify that I was friends with someone that is now dead to random Internet people with no lives that post over and over on a ridiculous board about deaths of people that you didn't even know in passing. It's so fucked up that I come on here posting mainly looking for her ex bf's contact info and I have idiots that don't even know her questioning that we were even friends. You people sit on this board with 800 posts regarding the deaths of people that you don't even know, and say silly things like "something sounds fishy here".
Parasites. Ever heard of extenuating circumstances?
It's OK, I have no need to post here again, what a bunch of fucking assholes.
[quote author=theoutsider link=topic=4359.msg208988#msg208988 date=1172844901]
All of you suck. I said that she signed on, and that I called her right after first of all. Next, walking distance meaning 9 miles. I am a distance runner but I didn't have a pair of sneakers then. Exactly why I said I will walk there ... when I get sneakers. As for the idiot that said that I thought that it was lizz on the phone. My exact statement was "Her mothers voice sounded a lot like lizz's". Also, I don't share any of the same friends as her. I don't even know why I am here all depressed wasting time trying to justify that I was friends with someone that is now dead to random Internet people with no lives that post over and over on a ridiculous board about deaths of people that you didn't even know in passing. It's so fucked up that I come on here posting mainly looking for her ex bf's contact info and I have idiots that don't even know her questioning that we were even friends. You people sit on this board with 800 posts regarding the deaths of people that you don't even know, and say silly things like "something sounds fishy here".
Parasites. Ever heard of extenuating circumstances?
It's OK, I have no need to post here again, what a bunch of fucking assholes.
[/quote]
No you didn't ever say "I said that she signed on, and that I called her right after first of all." Scroll down and see exactly what you have said. So actually you suck. Say what you mean and mean what you say. You could have simply reviewed your posts and politely corrected yourself by stating that you had actually called her mom.
So...
I think it is interesting that we all know more about the circumstances of her death than you do....and we don't know her or have access to her mom for additional information. Your observation you shared below had only information that we already knew, it was easy to see that without actually knowing her. I can understand it raises some question as to the validity of your really knowing her personally. We have people come in here and make odd false claims regularly anymore it seems.
[quote author=question link=topic=4359.msg208686#msg208686 date=1172813107]
No, I don't anything about Tina, except that she makes no mention of lizz and has no posts near lizz's death. It's ok though, her karma must look like a cross between a septic tank and a dead body. With karma like that, only bad things can happen. People can smell bad and they can smell an ugly soul. She is stained and nasty forever.
I miss her so much.
Some memories of lizz:
Riding my bicycle and drinking 40's meeting up with her at Hollywood video.
Trading creative little poems and Haiku's.
My bike breaking down after some kids shaving creaming me and having her and ez drive me home.
So many more ...
I am getting a sleeve done in a few weeks and she will be on it. I cannot wait, she will forever be alive (to me, and anyone who looks) on my arm. People will ask me who she is; I will respond "the most amazing girl in the world".
[/quote]
[quote author=theoutsider link=topic=4359.msg206499#msg206499 date=1172724509]
I knew lizz pretty well and I just found out (about 30 minutes ago) about her death. It is tragic too, because a little over a year ago I met a woman that I ended up marrying and lizz (always knowing best for me when I never knew) warned me against it. Lizz was amazing. The woman that I married hated that lizz and I would hangout and that we saw a movie once together. I ended the marriage right before lizz's passing and moved back home to mahopac, ny where lizz is from. I had spent the year fighting with my wife and her not letting me talk to lizz on the phone, myspace etc. I wasnt allowed to see her.
Well when I moved home, I talked to her online and she seemed ok, I told her that as soon as I got a pair of sneakers (no car, only some black dress shoes) i would run to her house. that was just a few days before her death.
WTF why did this have to happen? I am mad right now. I wouldnt have known if her mother hadnt signed on and told me just now. Her mothers voice sounded a lot like lizz's.
If anyone knows how to get in touch with ez please tell me.
- Edward
[/quote]
Edit=edited quotes
Well sorry that people come in here and "make false claims". I should have reviewed the post then - agreed. Sorry that people do that, but I have no interest in death, morbidity or other peoples life so I am not one of those. Sometimes people move and get new phone numbers and essentially become "out of the loop".
[quote author=theoutsider link=topic=4359.msg209024#msg209024 date=1172846858]
Well sorry that people come in here and "make false claims". I should have reviewed the post then - agreed. Sorry that people do that, but I have no interest in death, morbidity or other peoples life so I am not one of those. Sometimes people move and get new phone numbers and essentially become "out of the loop".
[/quote] I understand becoming out of the loop. Especially after you get married and your friends are still single. Have you heard anything about Tina since Lizz's death?
In steps MDSA (known as Trish in the real world) to make a point or two. Lizz never mentioned Ed, then again as time passes I realize Lizz had a lot of things she kept secret, or more so separated. NA friends, high school friends, childhood friends, using friends, Internet friends and family all seemed very unaware of one another.
I can not even count the number of times Lizz told me that no one loved her, that she had no real friends and yet there were hundreds of friends, true friends as seen in thousands of pictures and an endless stream of tears on everyone's part, at Lizz's funeral. I shared countless memories with people at her wake and at her house.
So Ed's sudden arrival does not surprise me at all. Also, the detective here must note that Ed mentioned EZ, EZ is Lizz's ex-boyfriend. Doubting Thomas, please doubt no more.
As far as Ed being Tina, not a chance. Lizz and Tina were not friends. Tina is known for seeking out people who live in her area that are known to have drug problems to use with. She did it to Lizz's friend Emily as well. Lizz and Tina did not hang out and there is no way that Tina would even know who EZ is, so I say there is no way that Tina and Ed are, in anyway, the same person.
Finally, to Ed. I am sorry you found out so far after the fact and I am sorry you did not have the chance to say goodbye to her. Lizz was cremated and lives in an urn at her house, so I am also sorry to say that there is no gravesite to visit. She does have a memorial myspace page which you can link to through my page if you want.
Now, please understand that I am not attacking you, I understand that you are saddened and grieving for Lizz much in the same way I am but I am truly offended that of the memories you choose to share with this on-line community, you chose to share memories of drugs and alcohol. Please understand, I met Lizz in recovery. She came into my life after Alyssa, tragically died from a heroin overdose. She herself had been hospitalized from an overdose. Lizz was an addict. She was sick and trying desperately to get better. She went to meetings every week. She spent countless days and hours at my house, playing cards, baking, holding my children, writing on-line, watching America's Next Top Model, flirting and laughing.
This is how Lizz spent the last 6 months of her life. She was with me and other recovering addicts on a continuous basis. Please respect the fact that romanticizing her struggle with drugs is a dishonor to her memory. I am sure you can remember and share her wit, her honesty, her beautiful and rare smile or her undying love and need to be loved. But please, respect those of us who watched her struggle with her addiction, including her family members, like her little brother, who may come to this site, and erase the part of your post about writing poems about the very thing that killed her. Please.
emos, hippies and GOATS... oh my
You are right, and I will fix that. I just don't know what to think. I am going to call her mother again and see if she wants to have lunch sometime. I want to show her my sleeve when it get's done with lizz on it :/
I stopped binge drinking, no drugs, started eating super healthy vegan again after lizz told me all about NA, and how well she was doing there. I really wanted to meet all of her new friends from there also.
As for this Tina person ... screw her. i hate her with my entire heart. If she got hit by a truck right now, I would sit with popcorn and laugh and clap. *Edits Post*.
I love you lizz!!!
This is really sad......as a former drug counselor I have known many people who have fallen off the wagon and then died...people without a drug addiction don't realize just how hard it is to overcome...but it can be done.....you need a really strong support system....RIP
Hello. I'm not here to start drama or World War III, but I am a very close friend of Tina's.
It's very simple to sit there and condemn someone you do not know. Has anyone stopped to consider that the night Lizz died Tina wasn't sober? And she also wasn't sitting and staring at Lizz. When you are high on any substance, be it pot or heroin, you aren't in your right mind, and if someone passes out, it would appear as though they are sleeping. Tina does do things that are questionable, but she would never purposely allow someone to die. She called the ambulance as soon as she realized that something was wrong and that Lizz was not sleeping.
Your sources of information are questionable at best. None of you were there that night, and it's ridiculous and shows poor character on your parts to assume that Tina just sat there and laughed while Lizz died. That's absolutely ludicrous. And to the person who "knows for a fact" that Lizz isn't the only person who has ODed at Tina's house...I would consider checking your facts. I know Tina far better than you do, and gossip is never reliable nor is it accurate. Lizz isn't the first person to do heroin at Tina's house, but she certainly is the first person to OD.
The conversation where Lizz said Tina "offered" her heroin: you need to stop thinking of people in terms of caricatures. I highly doubt she actively sought her out just to offer her drugs and ruin her. It mostly likely came up in casual conversation; she probably told Lizz she had heroin and offered her some. She wasn't out to get anyone. She had enough problems as it was. And how many of you say one thing to one friend and something completely different to another? Everyone is guilty of it. She probably badmouthed Tina to whoever that other person was, and then turned around and spoke to Tina. Girls do it all the time. It's called talking trash behind other peoples backs.
Additionally, when something horrible happens, like a close friend dying, blaming someone else makes it a lot easier. It makes you feel better, because it gives you something to hate and focus pain upon. To call Tina a murderer? That's just cruel. It just makes you really mean girls. None of you know her and none of you were there that night. All of your "facts" are just assumptions. I'm sorry about Lizz, it's tragic to die so young, but Tina isn't to blame. It just makes you feel better to blame her. But people get hurt when emotions overtake reason.
[quote author=justarandomperson link=topic=4359.msg216658#msg216658 date=1173226168]
Hello. I'm not here to start drama or World War III, but I am a very close friend of Tina's.
It's very simple to sit there and condemn someone you do not know. Has anyone stopped to consider that the night Lizz died Tina wasn't sober? And she also wasn't sitting and staring at Lizz. When you are high on any substance, be it pot or heroin, you aren't in your right mind, and if someone passes out, it would appear as though they are sleeping. Tina does do things that are questionable, but she would never purposely allow someone to die. She called the ambulance as soon as she realized that something was wrong and that Lizz was not sleeping.
Your sources of information are questionable at best. None of you were there that night, and it's ridiculous and shows poor character on your parts to assume that Tina just sat there and laughed while Lizz died. That's absolutely ludicrous. And to the person who "knows for a fact" that Lizz isn't the only person who has ODed at Tina's house...I would consider checking your facts. I know Tina far better than you do, and gossip is never reliable nor is it accurate. Lizz isn't the first person to do heroin at Tina's house, but she certainly is the first person to OD.
The conversation where Lizz said Tina "offered" her heroin: you need to stop thinking of people in terms of caricatures. I highly doubt she actively sought her out just to offer her drugs and ruin her. It mostly likely came up in casual conversation; she probably told Lizz she had heroin and offered her some. She wasn't out to get anyone. She had enough problems as it was. And how many of you say one thing to one friend and something completely different to another? Everyone is guilty of it. She probably badmouthed Tina to whoever that other person was, and then turned around and spoke to Tina. Girls do it all the time. It's called talking trash behind other peoples backs.
Additionally, when something horrible happens, like a close friend dying, blaming someone else makes it a lot easier. It makes you feel better, because it gives you something to hate and focus pain upon. To call Tina a murderer? That's just cruel. It just makes you really mean girls. None of you know her and none of you were there that night. All of your "facts" are just assumptions. I'm sorry about Lizz, it's tragic to die so young, but Tina isn't to blame. It just makes you feel better to blame her. But people get hurt when emotions overtake reason.
[/quote]
Were you there that night?
*taps fingers, waiting for response*
Nope, I wasn't there. And you obviously know I wasn't. But out of everyone here, I know Tina the best. She doesn't "lure" druggies to her house. I personally know the person who got her into heroin, and I know how she met said person. I also know everyone who has done heroin at her house.
I think I made some rather valid points, and I just think that all of you shouldn't ignorantly call her a murderer.
I, personally, never typed out the word, M U R D E R E R.
I, my own thoughts, if I may, believe that if someone is doing drugs, it is much like the "bar stool" buddy syndrome. They do not want to do this alone, much better with a friend. Elizabeth made a choice that night. Sadly, a choice that cost her her life. Tina also made a choice.
I'll leave it at that.
That's a fair enough viewpoint. Other people haven't been as objective and have labeled her a murderer, claiming she purposely waited hours before calling an ambulance.
[quote author=justarandomperson link=topic=4359.msg216658#msg216658 date=1173226168]
Hello. I'm not here to start drama or World War III, but I am a very close friend of Tina's.
It's very simple to sit there and condemn someone you do not know. Has anyone stopped to consider that the night Lizz died Tina wasn't sober? And she also wasn't sitting and staring at Lizz. When you are high on any substance, be it pot or heroin, you aren't in your right mind, and if someone passes out, it would appear as though they are sleeping. Tina does do things that are questionable, but she would never purposely allow someone to die. She called the ambulance as soon as she realized that something was wrong and that Lizz was not sleeping.
Your sources of information are questionable at best. None of you were there that night, and it's ridiculous and shows poor character on your parts to assume that Tina just sat there and laughed while Lizz died. That's absolutely ludicrous. And to the person who "knows for a fact" that Lizz isn't the only person who has ODed at Tina's house...I would consider checking your facts. I know Tina far better than you do, and gossip is never reliable nor is it accurate. Lizz isn't the first person to do heroin at Tina's house, but she certainly is the first person to OD.
The conversation where Lizz said Tina "offered" her heroin: you need to stop thinking of people in terms of caricatures. I highly doubt she actively sought her out just to offer her drugs and ruin her. It mostly likely came up in casual conversation; she probably told Lizz she had heroin and offered her some. She wasn't out to get anyone. She had enough problems as it was. And how many of you say one thing to one friend and something completely different to another? Everyone is guilty of it. She probably badmouthed Tina to whoever that other person was, and then turned around and spoke to Tina. Girls do it all the time. It's called talking trash behind other peoples backs.
Additionally, when something horrible happens, like a close friend dying, blaming someone else makes it a lot easier. It makes you feel better, because it gives you something to hate and focus pain upon. To call Tina a murderer? That's just cruel. It just makes you really mean girls. None of you know her and none of you were there that night. All of your "facts" are just assumptions. I'm sorry about Lizz, it's tragic to die so young, but Tina isn't to blame. It just makes you feel better to blame her. But people get hurt when emotions overtake reason.
[/quote]I don't recall anyone ever saying that Tina laughed while Lizz ODed; but I do think that it is safe to assume that Tina did know that Lizz was going to NA and trying to get sober. Why offer heroin to someone you know is trying to quit?
[quote author=justarandomperson link=topic=4359.msg216765#msg216765 date=1173229055]
Nope, I wasn't there. And you obviously know I wasn't. But out of everyone here, I know Tina the best. She doesn't "lure" druggies to her house. I personally know the person who got her into heroin, and I know how she met said person. I also know everyone who has done heroin at her house.
I think I made some rather valid points, and I just think that all of you shouldn't ignorantly call her a murderer.
[/quote]
I don't obviously know anything of the kind hence why I asked.
[quote author=justarandomperson link=topic=4359.msg216658#msg216658 date=1173226168]
When you are high on any substance, be it pot or heroin, you aren't in your right mind,
[/quote]
now wait just a minute..don't go putting pot in the same kettle with heroin..the worst thing i sat by and allowed one of my best friends to do under the influence of pot was eat 7 ring dings in a row...big diff this tina offered the heroin to elizabeth knowing she was trying to get straight..she is certainly culpable for contributing to the death imo...if she has a conscience i'm sure it will bother her until she dies...looks like all of Tina's "friends" should see about helping her get the monkey off her back before she joins elizabeth.
[quote author=justarandomperson link=topic=4359.msg216658#msg216658 date=1173226168]
When you are high on any substance, be it pot or heroin, you aren't in your right mind, and if someone passes out, it would appear as though they are sleeping. Tina does do things that are questionable, but she would never purposely allow someone to die. She called the ambulance as soon as she realized that something was wrong and that Lizz was not sleeping.[/quote]
That sentence in bold is so not true. Don't even try to convince us that pot has the same effects as heroin. That's something a heroin addict may say, but it is a totally inaccurate statement.
Tina has a history of doing questionable things, according to you, her close friend. You say she called an ambulance as soon as she knew there was a problem with Lizz. So that would bring us to the conclusion that Tina is incapable of recognizing a medical emergency when she is on drugs. Tina needs help. As a friend are you doing anything to attempt to get her help. She is a danger to herself and others and should be admitted to a mental hospital to be treated for her deadly condition.
"friend" of Tina's, you may think I am simply lashing out in anger and grief at Tina but first off I want you to know I read the police report. I'll give you three guesses as to who gave the report.
At first I was very angry with Tina but seeing that I am a recovering addict I have found ways to get past that anger. I believe Tina is in desperate need of help. I have said it before and I will say it again, if Tina has any remorse over what occured at HER house early in the morning January, 25 2007, she will get help and honor Lizz and herself by being an example and recovering the way Lizz was unable to. Until, I hear otherwise Tina can eat shit for all I care and wallow in depths of her heroin/emo hell for the rest of her life. Secondly, you said that girls often do one thing, say one thing to one person and then another to another person, does this theory of yours not apply to Tina?
Or do you simply, unwaveringly trust your friend who by your own admission uses heroin.
See the difference between Tina and my sources is Tina is a druggie my sources either don't use drugs or have been recovering from addiction for a lengthy amount of time. The two people who I have personally spoken to, who were sought out by Tina to use with fall into those categories. Finally, just because Lizz was 18 does not mean that I am 18. I was Lizz's sponsor and friend but I am NOT one of your petty little friends. I am 14 years out of the high school drama and pettiness that you speak of. Despite my grief and sadness I am doing my best to take all sides into consideration as I struggle to make sense out of Lizz's death. If you are really Tina's friend, the word friend implies genuine care and loyalty, tell her to get in touch with me, it's not too difficult. I would be more than willing to help her, that is, if she wants help.
emos, hippies and GOATS... oh my
[quote author=justarandomperson link=topic=4359.msg216658#msg216658 date=1173226168]
Hello. I'm not here to start drama or World War III, but I am a very close friend of Tina's.
[/quote]
Hi there I absolutely understand what you are saying and yes two people made choices that night, Lizz, to want another hit and Tina who provided it, if Tina had not been there then who's to say that Lizz wouldn't have sought it out from somewhere else if it was playing on her mind....
So in my view, yes Tina did a terrible thing that she will have to live with forever because morally what she did was disgusting but Lizz took that risk.
Tina is going to rehab.
[quote author=Eleria link=topic=4359.msg221200#msg221200 date=1173383364]
Tina is going to rehab.
[/quote]Good for her, seriously.
[quote author=Eleria link=topic=4359.msg221200#msg221200 date=1173383364]
Tina is going to rehab.
[/quote]
that's awesome you signed up just to tell us that...
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.<br /><br />[quote author=bowieluva link=action=profile;u=5553 date=1236809919]<br />ALEX IS WATCHING YOU THROUGH A HOLE IN HIS FACE [/quote]
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