Yes, she is guilty as sin - fry bitch fry
Yes, but I don't think she did it
No, she is innocent!
No, she will get away with murder
[quote author=Laurie_khikhi link=topic=15230.msg1040529#msg1040529 date=1224025453]
Can someone tell how she can be charged with first degree murder AND manslaughter?
[/quote]
Manslaughter is a lesser-included offense. Although you are charged with both, a jury can only find you guilty of one or the other.
I just wish they would find that poor sweet baby. If she is dead, which truly breaks my heart, please just give her the decency of a proper burial.
To think that she is lying dead somewhere just really upsets me. I watched the video on the myspace and she's just so sweet. How anyone could harm her is just sickening. Especially if it is the mother
Originally Posted by Chauncy
[quote author=bowieluva link=topic=15230.msg1040492#msg1040492 date=1224023776]
The dress is not enough. It's 'similar to', not an exact match, and also, I question the validity of anything those volunteers find. They haven't handled themselves professionally at all. All it takes is one nut bag so desperate to get her in jail that they violate her privacy, for everything to get thrown out.
[/quote]
I think they also have DNA from the trunk, that maybe they just never released. I think if an indictment is handed down there must be some sort of hard evidence.
[quote author=FemmeFatality link=topic=15230.msg1040532#msg1040532 date=1224025551]
Manslaughter is a lesser-included offense. Although you are charged with both, a jury can only find you guilty of one or the other.
[/quote]
I am sure this is set up so that either way with a jury trial it makes it easier to pin something on her, correct? And since there is a big jump from Murder one and Manslaughter. I am sure a jury that might not want to use a murder one could find enough reasonable doubt to use the manslaughter charge, right??? OR something along those lines?
[quote author=aprilcarter29 link=topic=15230.msg1040563#msg1040563 date=1224026456]
I think they also have DNA from the trunk, that maybe they just never released. I think if an indictment is handed down there must be some sort of hard evidence.
[/quote]
Not really. They have the unreliable body farm results, which I don't believe are admissible, and a blood stain that isn't enough to prove a dead body was there. It seems to me that the courts are responding to public outrage instead of getting their ducks in a row.
[quote author=bowieluva link=topic=15230.msg1040567#msg1040567 date=1224026554]
Not really. They have the unreliable body farm results, which I don't believe are admissible, and a blood stain that isn't enough to prove a dead body was there. It seems to me that the courts are responding to public outrage instead of getting their ducks in a row.
[/quote]
I thought the blood stain results were never released? Also wasn't there a hair?
[quote author=aprilcarter29 link=topic=15230.msg1040576#msg1040576 date=1224026882]
I thought the blood stain results were never released? Also wasn't there a hair?
[/quote]
Yes! They found hair - a single strand, I think, in the trunk. But it doesn't really prove anything - my hair's all over the goddamned place.
People were still posting comments on the memorial profile as of yesterday saying, "I pray for your safe return!"
That would be the ultimate miracle. I don't see it happening. Especially if there is DNA in the trunk.
I do like the gator theory, but I think that Casey put her in a bag with rocks and tossed her into a lagoon or something. That or a culvert.
[quote author=strmmrgrrl link=topic=15230.msg1040583#msg1040583 date=1224027120]
Yes! They found hair - a single strand, I think, in the trunk. But it doesn't really prove anything - my hair's all over the goddamned place.
[/quote]
Yea but didnt it have that death ring(whatever its called) around it?
[quote author=strmmrgrrl link=topic=15230.msg1040583#msg1040583 date=1224027120]
Yes! They found hair - a single strand, I think, in the trunk. But it doesn't really prove anything - my hair's all over the goddamned place.
[/quote]
I think I remember reading that they can tell if the hair came from a person who was dead or alive - apparently there are 'death rings' that occur in the follicles of the hair once a person is deceased.
[quote author=Olivia link=topic=15230.msg1040591#msg1040591 date=1224027607]
I think I remember reading that they can tell if the hair came from a person who was dead or alive - apparently there are 'death rings' that occur in the follicles of the hair once a person is deceased.
[/quote]
Good point ladies . . . I forgot about that.
And they also couldnt conclude whether it was caylee or casey's hair
"Since change is constant, you wonder if people crave death because it's the only way they can get anything really finished." -Chuck Palahniuk
I love everyone except Amy.Amy's taste > Tara's
[quote author=Karalicious link=topic=15230.msg1040593#msg1040593 date=1224027726]
And they also couldnt conclude whether it was caylee or casey's hair
[/quote]
Could they though, if they got a DNA sample from Casey (like that will ever happen)? I would think that if it were Caylee's, she'd have some of her father's "markers".
Ah! Found this on Webslueths:
From what I was told by someone who works with the U.T. Body farm through school is they (bands) will never be on a person who is alive. The person has to be dead for the particular bacteria to grow on the hair shaft. That bacteria won't grow on a live specimen regardless if it was pulled out, cut, whatever.
The bacteria evidently comes for the dead scalp and forms the ring/rings around the hair follicle.It sounds like the rings are basically decomp in the part of the follicle that was once alive. I don't know how anyone can dispute that and the mitochondrial dna of the hair follicle that shows it is Caylee's since Casey is still alive.
[quote author=Olivia link=topic=15230.msg1040591#msg1040591 date=1224027607]
I think I remember reading that they can tell if the hair came from a person who was dead or alive - apparently there are 'death rings' that occur in the follicles of the hair once a person is deceased.
[/quote]
Exactly and if they did find that it was her hair and in fact "dead hair" that would be enough for me! FRY THAT BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
O/T - I got a summons for Jury duty and never went - am I in big trouble?
[quote author=Deviant Toaster link=topic=15230.msg1040565#msg1040565 date=1224026517]
I am sure this is set up so that either way with a jury trial it makes it easier to pin something on her, correct? And since there is a big jump from Murder one and Manslaughter. I am sure a jury that might not want to use a murder one could find enough reasonable doubt to use the manslaughter charge, right??? OR something along those lines?
[/quote]
It's pretty much the norm. The prosecution goes for the highest degree of the crime that they believe that they can prove and then the lesser-degrees are included.
Murder & Manslaughter are both forms of Homicide.
For Murder, you have 1st degree, 2nd degree, and 3rd degree (it varies by state though). All murder requires malice.
For example, if the prosecution proves that the defendant took the life of another with premeditation, it is 1st degree. If no premeditation is found, but there is malice, than 2nd or 3rd (I'm not sure of the difference right off hand).
Manslaughter is pretty much defined in Florida as a gross negligent killing, so if the jury finds that there was no malice to constitute murder, but that Casey was grossly negligent and it resulted in the death of her daughter, than they will find that she is guilty of manslaughter and not murder.
To say that it is set up like that in order to make it easier to pin something on the defendant is not quite true. I've seen defense attorneys argue to include the lesser degrees so that the jury can consider something else besides the most serious offense. For example, the prosecution is going to try and prove the highest degree (for example, first degree) so the defense attorney at least can argue that it was 2nd degree and not 1st degree (if the defendant has no defense to the murder).
Some prosecutors may argue not to include the lesser degrees. I've seen this happen because the prosecutor was stubborn & thought that she had a great case (when she really didn't), so she did not go for manslaughter if murder was not proved. I believe that was the downfall of her case because the defense attorney argued "this is something, but it ain't murder." He argued that yeah a man died and someone should be punished, but the defendant's actions did not rise to murder. Well, the jury didn't have a choice to find him guilty of manslaughter, so they found him not guilty of murder.
[quote author=Olivia link=topic=15230.msg1040457#msg1040457 date=1224022428]
Also the article I posted for Casey's MDS entry says that George testified against her. Good for him - my theory about him having something to do with was obviously wrong.
[/quote]
In this situation did he have to testify or is there some right he could have used to not testify?
[quote author=TinkerBelly link=topic=15230.msg1040604#msg1040604 date=1224028061]
In this situation did he have to testify or is there some right he could have used to not testify?
[/quote]
Plead the 5th? Which, to me, just screams "GUILTY"
[quote author=Karalicious link=topic=15230.msg1040593#msg1040593 date=1224027726]
And they also couldnt conclude whether it was caylee or casey's hair
[/quote]
I guess it wouldn't matter if they can see the death rings, because Casey is very alive.
[quote author=FemmeFatality link=topic=15230.msg1040602#msg1040602 date=1224028013]
It's pretty much the norm. The prosecution goes for the highest degree of the crime that they believe that they can prove and then the lesser-degrees are included.
Murder & Manslaughter are both forms of Homicide.
For Murder, you have 1st degree, 2nd degree, and 3rd degree (it varies by state though). All murder requires malice.
For example, if the prosecution proves that the defendant took the life of another with premeditation, it is 1st degree. If no premeditation is found, but there is malice, than 2nd or 3rd (I'm not sure of the difference right off hand).
Manslaughter is pretty much defined in Florida as a gross negligent killing, so if the jury finds that there was no malice to constitute murder, but that Casey was grossly negligent and it resulted in the death of her daughter, than they will find that she is guilty of manslaughter and not murder.
To say that it is set up like that in order to make it easier to pin something on the defendant is not quite true. I've seen defense attorneys argue to include the lesser degrees so that the jury can consider something else besides the most serious offense. For example, the prosecution is going to try and prove the highest degree (for example, first degree) so the defense attorney at least can argue that it was 2nd degree and not 1st degree (if the defendant has no defense to the murder).
Some prosecutors may argue not to include the lesser degrees. I've seen this happen because the prosecutor was stubborn & thought that she had a great case (when she really didn't), so she did not go for manslaughter if murder was not proved. I believe that was the downfall of her case because the defense attorney argued "this is something, but it ain't murder." He argued that yeah a man died and someone should be punished, but the defendant's actions did not rise to murder. Well, the jury didn't have a choice to find him guilty of manslaughter, so they found him not guilty of murder.
[/quote]
Thank you. That cleared up what was swirling around in my head. :-)
[quote author=Deviant Toaster link=topic=15230.msg1040613#msg1040613 date=1224028322]
Thank you. That cleared up what was swirling around in my head. :-)
[/quote]
I thought your head was swirling pretty fast there. :lol:
[quote author=strmmrgrrl link=topic=15230.msg1040609#msg1040609 date=1224028163]
Plead the 5th? Which, to me, just screams "GUILTY"
[/quote]
Agreed but as a parent I wonder if you would feel less guilty pleading the 5th than giving testimony under oath against your own daughter. Know what I mean?
This is one of those situations that I don't know how I would feel. I'd be so pissed that my grand dauhgter was most likely dead but I would want to hold onto hope that my own child was in no way capable of being so evil........it boggles my mind.
[quote author=TinkerBelly link=topic=15230.msg1040621#msg1040621 date=1224028625]
Agreed but as a parent I wonder if you would feel less guilty pleading the 5th than giving testimony under oath against your own daughter. Know what I mean?
This is one of those situations that I don't know how I would feel. I'd be so pissed that my grand dauhgter was most likely dead but I would want to hold onto hope that my own child was in no way capable of being so evil........it boggles my mind.
[/quote]
Perhaps, sadly he can no longer hold that hope because he knows shit we don't know?
[quote author=FemmeFatality link=topic=15230.msg1040618#msg1040618 date=1224028521]
I thought your head was swirling pretty fast there. :lol:
[/quote]
It swirls so fast sometimes I go backwards :lol: . But Christ with this Casey chick she leaves little time for evaluation and though and a lot of time for speculation between her steps. :lol:
Casey Anthony was indicted today on seven charges in the disappearance of her missing daughter, Caylee Marie Anthony, including first-degree murder.
She also was charged with:
* One count aggravated child abuse
* One count aggravated manslaughter of a child
* Four counts of providing false info to a law enforcement officer
The decision came after an Orange County grand jury heard more than six hours of testimony from a half-dozen witnesses, including Anthony's father, George Anthony, and sheriff's Detective Yuri Melich, who is heading up the investigation.
Jurors completed their work at the Orange County Courthouse at mid-afternoon. Chief Judge Belvin Perry, who presided over the proceeding, received the indictment shortly before 4 p.m. today but ordered it sealed until Anthony was arrested.
The young mother, who spent much of the day at her lawyer's office in Kissimmee, was on the road shortly before 5 p.m. when Orange County deputy sheriffs stopped the vehicle in which she was riding on the Beachline Expressway.
She was taken to the Sheriff's Office command center in Orlando and was taken to the Orange County Jail this evening.
Caylee Marie's body has not been found, but the indictment indicates that prosecutors believe they can prove at trial that her mother killed her. The first-degree murder charge carries a possible death penalty if she is convicted.
"The investigation contains intricate forensics that are on the cutting edge of science," State Attorney Lawson Lamar said after the indictment was unsealed. "We are used to complex forensics and are ready to manage this evidence at trial."
To win a grand jury indictment, prosecutors had to demonstrate only probable cause that Anthony committed the crime. Proving a case beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard for a criminal trial.
Anthony, 22, has been the main suspect for months in the disappearance of her daughter, who was reported missing July 15. The mother told detectives that she last saw Caylee in mid-June when she left the girl with a baby sitter.
When Anthony returned later, both the child and the baby sitter were gone, she said. Authorities have not been able to find the nanny, and they question whether she exists.
Deputies charged her with child neglect a day after reporting her daughter missing.
They also charged her with providing false information, saying she told lies and directed them to dead-ends. Among the lies, they said, was leading deputies to a vacant apartment she said belonged to the baby sitter and telling them she was an event planner at Universal Studios.
Anthony also is facing several check fraud cases. "The case will not be prosecuted by news release laying out our case to further excite the public," Lamar said. "We will properly do our work in a courtroom setting with a circuit judge presiding to ensure a fair trial for the defendant. Remember that this indictment is not proof of guilt, it is a grand jury finding, an accusation."
Anthony's first appearance will be Wednesday either at 8:30 arm or 1:30 p.m.
5:00 p.m. Orange County deputies stopped the vehicle Casey Anthony was riding in somewhere on the Beachline and have brought her to the Sheriff's Office command center.
It's unclear where on the Beachline members of the felony squad pulled Anthony over, but agency spokesman Jim Solomons just told the Sentinel, "We knew where she was at all times."
Casey did not return home
4:24 p.m. Cindy Anthony showed up at the house without Casey Anthony. The pair left Baez's law office together about an hour. She believed to have switched cars somewhere along the way. It's unclear where she is at this moment.
At the courthouse, Detective Yuri Melich said he could not comment about the grand jury's decision. State Attorney Lawson Lamar said he is glad the agencies and scientists handed over their work to prosecutors in "good form." He's pleased with the work that has been done but there is still more work ahead.
The grand jury returns an indictment
3:51 p.m. The grand jury returned an indictment for a capital crime but did not identify the defendant. The court will not name the defendant until she is taken into custody. It's unclear where Casey Anthony is at this time.
3:50 p.m. The courtroom is now filled with media, 19 members of the grand jury, Assistant State Attorney Linda Drane-Burdick and Detective Yuri Melich.
State Attorney's Office responds to political attack
3:41 p.m. Randy Means, a spokesman for the State Attorney's Office, recently issued this statement in response to allegations his office is using Casey Anthony's case for State Attorney Lawson Lamar's political benefit.
Means wrote in an email to the Orlando Sentinel that there "is an old axiom in law enforcement that goes 'When defense attorneys can't successfully attack the evidence they then attack the evidence collector. If this fails you then attack the prosecutor.....This is not the first time we have seen such a ploy as this. "All investigations, to include homicide investigations, have a chronological process and this case is no different. In late September, the Orange County Sheriff's Office, FBI and this office received a letter of confirmation from the University of Tennessee. They had concluded their examination of the forensic material sent to them by law enforcement contained relevant information to the disappearance of Caylee Anthony. "While I am not at liberty to discuss the specific nature of the material, I will tell you that this correspondence is dated very late September. This was the piece of the puzzle, as prosecutors, we were waiting for before we could appropriately convene the Grand Jury. "Normally making arrangements for the Grand Jurors will take a week or two, which leads us to today. Sufficient admissible evidence has been collected and evaluated and it is now the state's duty to seek justice. "As much as I would like to respond to these apparent smoke and mirror allegations, I am prohibited from doing so, as is the Defense, as described in the Cannons of Ethics. I believe the defense attorney's wild allegations serve no legitimate purpose other than to obfuscate the search for the truth. We will continue to prosecute this case in the courts and not in the media.
Grand jury makes a decision
3:40 a.m. The grand jury has made a decision but it has not been announced yet. The media is setting up in the courtroom to hear from the judge.
Anthony and mother leave attorney's office
3:35 p.m. Casey Anthony and her mother have just left attorney Jose Baez's Kissimmee office. She has until 4 p.m. to be at her parent's Hopespring Drive home or will be in violation of her home confinement.
Meanwhile at the Orange County Courthouse, the grand jury is still meeting behind closed doors.
Lead detective takes the stand
2:22 p.m. Orange County sheriff's Detective Yuri Melich has begun his testimony in front of the grand jury. Melich, who is on crutches because of an earlier motorcycle accident, is reportedly the last person to testify today.
Anthony will turn self in if indicted
2 p.m. If the grand jury decides to indict Casey Anthony on homicide charges this afternoon, she will turn herself in to authorities, attorney Jose Baez said at his office.
Anthony stood next to her attorney, wearing a white collared shirt with a Where's Caylee button, during the six-minute press conference.
"She is doing her best to stand tall in front of everyone," Baez said. "They [the sheriff's office] threw the kitchen sink at her a long time ago."
Anthony, who has never appeared at a press conference, did not comment. She became emotional at times and shed a few tears.
"Casey is going through a nightmare," Baez said. "She has a missing child. She is also someone's child."
FBI agent takes the stand
1:32 p.m. FBI Special Agent Nick Savage is now inside the courtroom and is testifying in front of the grand jury. There are several others inside the courtroom as well.
12:58 p.m. Casey Anthony's attorney Jose Baez announced a few moments ago that he will hold a short press conference with his client outside of his Kissimmee office.
The press conference will start at 1:30 p.m.
Check back for updates.
FBI agent testifies
12:05 p.m. The third person to testify before the grand jury late this morning was FBI Agent Nick Savage.
He recently left the courtroom with prosecutors as they adjourned for lunch.
They will reconvene at 1 p.m.
Baez spokesman issues statement
11:50 a.m. The spokesman representing defense attorney Jose Baez issued a statement this morning accusing State Attorney Lawson Lamar of using Casey Anthony's case for his political benefit.
"Lawson Lamar has allowed authorities to let any real search fall by the wayside, to let his fight to keep his political office benefit from being placed on the front burner," the faxed statement from Todd Black said.
"THE TRUTH IS -- there's no time limit on bringing murder charges against any suspected offender. But, there is a limit on how much time Lawson Lamar has to impress voters, and, sadly, it is less impressive for him to deliver a missing child alive, or he would DEMAND that law enforcement keep investigating," the statement said.
"What Lawson Lamar has chosen to do is commercialize Ms. Anthony's missing daughter, Caylee, as the 'perfect springboard' to squeeze out his re-election. HIS TIME LIMIT ….the November elections!"
Testimony of dog handler lasts 30 minutes
11:17 a.m. Deputy Jason Forgey walked out of the courtroom after giving his testimony.
Dog handler next to testify
10:45 a.m. Orange County Sheriff's Deputy Jason Forgey was called before the grand jury. He had testified earlier in a bond hearing that his cadaver dog alerted on the trunk of Casey Anthony's car. This signaled that a body was once held there. The dog also alerted to a section of the Anthonys' backyard but nothing was found when officials dug up the area.
George Anthony finishes testifying
10:40 a.m. George Anthony left the courtroom after testifying for more than an hour. He and his attorney Mark NeJame would not comment. Prosecutors have not called the next witness.
Jurors take a break
10:35 a.m. Jurors are taking a quick break. George Anthony is still testifying inside the courtroom.
George Anthony is there to testify against his daughter
9:37 a.m. Outside the courthouse, George Anthony's attorney Mark NeJame told reporters that his client is there to testify against Casey Anthony for consideration of homicide charges "concerning his beloved granddaughter Caylee Marie." "George is getting ready to do the unimaginable," NeJame said. Then George Anthony said that he loves his daughter, wife, and son and asked for prayers for Caylee and his family. "This is going to be very hard for me to do," George Anthony said.
George Anthony is called first to testify
9:25 a.m. George Anthony just walked into the courtroom to testify before the grand jury. The other witnesses are waiting in various conference rooms on the 23rd floor. There's more than a dozen media standing outside the courtroom to capture the various people going in and out.
George Anthony prepares to testify
9:20 a.m. Casey Anthony's father, George Anthony, arrived outside the courtroom with his attorney, Mark NeJame. Assistant State Attorney Linda Drane-Burdick is there, too.
Witnesses Arrive
9 a.m. Witnesses began to show up to testify before the Orange County grand jury. The lead detective - Yuri Melich - was the first to arrive outside the courtroom. State Attorney Lawson Lamar arrived minutes later.
*****************
Holy Jesus, long article.
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/orl-casey-anthony-grand-jury-indicts-101308,0,5944165.story?page=4
"Since change is constant, you wonder if people crave death because it's the only way they can get anything really finished." -Chuck Palahniuk
I love everyone except Amy.Amy's taste > Tara's
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