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Thread: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

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    Senior Member deeply shaded's Avatar
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    Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    http://www.mydeathspace.com/article/2008/05/16/Jessica_Uhl_(18)_and_Kelli_Uhl_(13)_died_when_a_pa trol_car_struck_their_vehicle_at_126_MPH

    Wasn't there an article about this here once upon a time? I know I read and/or posted about it somewhere.

    RIP Jessica and Kelli, victims of a cop who was an idiot. How tragic for the surviving family.
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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    So let me get this straight.  He's responding to an accident 26 miles away, going 120 plus..and he loses control?  Oh, ya think??  What a fucktard.  This is the kind of crap that just makes me sick.  Just like watching those crazy "Car chase caught on tape" shows...all have crazy narration that make cops like this bozo out to be heroes.
    I'm guessing there's no accountability anywhere when things like this happen..and that's just pathetic.

    God forbid  you actually drive like you have some goddamn sense.

    RIP girls.  So sorry you were robbed of a life by one of the people who's job it was to protect  you from idiots like himself.
    Don't like what I have to say? I respect that. Now go fuck yourself.

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    Moderator nestlequikie's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehi

    Hello:

    I read about these girls a few weeks back somewhere online.  I found their mom, Kim's blog - and once I started reading it, I had to read it in its entirety.  It is called Parachuting Without a Net - she started it for fun, then used it to help her cope with her divorce and now posts about the deaths of her two girls as well as her day-to-day life. 

    http://jumpwithfaith.blogspot.com/20...1_archive.html


    She does have a surviving daughter named Maddy.  Her blog is both sad and inspiring.  She is one classy lady.  I don't think I could cope nearly as well as she has.

    God bless you, Kim and Maddy.

    RIP Jessica and Kelli


    I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to. - Donnie Darko

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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    Lawsuit seeks $24 million in I-64 crash that killed two sisters

    Attorney says: "I'd like to be very clear. That was an amount that was chosen by me," Keefe said. "And it does not represent anything other than an estimate on my part as to what I believe would be fair compensation."

    Im glad he stated that in the article, to avoid the mother getting looked at like she is just money hungry. The article said the cop that hit them uses a cane and is receiving worker's comp benefits. I think the family deserves the money, putting a price on a child's life is hard and I'm glad the attroney didn't ask the mother to do it.

    http://www.bnd.com/100/story/334958.html

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    Senior Member mialynneb's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehi

    I read the blog that was posted and Nestle you were right. It is sad and inspiring.  Kim seems like such an amazing person and actually quite witty.  I'm glad she has her youngest daughter with her and that they have each other. 

    This story is just heartbreaking and was just so avoidable.  I hope time helps their mother heal; she seems so strong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chauncy View Post
    Huh? you're a woman?

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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehi

    [quote author=jenqtpie link=topic=14247.msg861676#msg861676 date=1211324970]
    Lawsuit seeks $24 million in I-64 crash that killed two sisters

    Attorney says: "I'd like to be very clear. That was an amount that was chosen by me," Keefe said. "And it does not represent anything other than an estimate on my part as to what I believe would be fair compensation."

    Im glad he stated that in the article, to avoid the mother getting looked at like she is just money hungry. The article said the cop that hit them uses a cane and is receiving worker's comp benefits. I think the family deserves the money, putting a price on a child's life is hard and I'm glad the attroney didn't ask the mother to do it.

    http://www.bnd.com/100/story/334958.html
    [/quote]

    My god, the pictures in that article of the crash :2sad:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chauncy View Post
    Huh? you're a woman?

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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehi

    [quote author=mialynneb link=topic=14247.msg861733#msg861733 date=1211326688]
    My god, the pictures in that article of the crash :2sad:
    [/quote]

    Wow, I didnt even catch those the first time, It doesnt even look like a car, just a piece of metal, the mothers blog or the article, I dont know which one, said they died on impact, that is comforting to know they didnt have to suffer. But no less tradgic. What a sad story. 

  8. #8

    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    Every time I have been pulled over there has been 3-4 additional units that responded.  I'm all about keeping troopers safe, but what is a single occupant going to do to a (supposedly) well trained policeman with a big stick and a gun?  I mean come on.  And they have fucking walky talkys he should have known that the accident was secure.

    I have very little patience for cops that are bored at work so they go looking for trouble.  It would be one thing if the accident was ten or even fifteen miles away, but to go to an already secure accident 20 miles away at a hundred and twenty six miles per hour? 

    We need to reexamine the way our police work in this country.  I don't care if John Wayne Gayce is leading cops on a high speed chase, it endagers the people on the road too much to pursue them like that.  We have better means of catching people than weaving in and out of traffic at lethal speeds.  And God knows when I drive on the highway there is enough Illinois State Police to where I'm sure someone only had to drive a few miles to respond to the accident.

    (Throws his hands up)

    Mrs. Uhl has handled herself very well.  I nominate her for mother of the year, and possibly blogger of the year.  She is really very articulate and smart.

    RiP little Jess and Kelli

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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    [quote author=idigapony link=topic=14247.msg862873#msg862873 date=1211390005]
    Every time I have been pulled over there has been 3-4 additional units that responded.  I'm all about keeping troopers safe, but what is a single occupant going to do to a (supposedly) well trained policeman with a big stick and a gun?  I mean come on.  And they have fucking walky talkys he should have known that the accident was secure.

    I have very little patience for cops that are bored at work so they go looking for trouble.  It would be one thing if the accident was ten or even fifteen miles away, but to go to an already secure accident 20 miles away at a hundred and twenty six miles per hour? 

    We need to reexamine the way our police work in this country.  I don't care if John Wayne Gayce is leading cops on a high speed chase, it endagers the people on the road too much to pursue them like that.  We have better means of catching people than weaving in and out of traffic at lethal speeds.  And God knows when I drive on the highway there is enough Illinois State Police to where I'm sure someone only had to drive a few miles to respond to the accident.

    (Throws his hands up)

    Mrs. Uhl has handled herself very well.  I nominate her for mother of the year, and possibly blogger of the year.  She is really very articulate and smart.

    RiP little Jess and Kelli
    [/quote]

    I completely agree with you. Speaking as someone whose father was a police officer, it makes me sick to see other officers acting this way. My dad took his job very seriously and was always professional. He was so good at his job that his Lt. even thought he could rise to be assistant chief in D.C., but he wasn't interested. When I was little, I used to think all cops were as good as my dad. Unfortunately I learned later on, that's not the case. It seriously saddens me to see them abusing their power. There was no reason to be flying down the road at that speed. Disregarding everyones' lives on the road so you can get there a little faster sure sounds like a great idea. :roll:

    I also hate it when power hungry cops start trouble just because they are bored or are looking to abuse their power. That's not what the fucking badge and oath they took are about!

    I feel so bad for this poor mother, but she really does seem to be handling herself well.

    RIP Jessica and Kelli
    Try to realize it&#39;s all within yourself. No one else can make you change. And to see you&#39;re really only very small. And life flows on within you and without you.<br /><br />--George Harrison--

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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    oh wow....what a tragic story. &nbsp;I knew someone at work where both there daughters were in a car accident, only one survived and one died...I always thought they handled the whole thing unbelievably well. &nbsp;This mom does an equally inspiring job coping with both her daughters death. &nbsp;

    Her blog about the dream she had where jessica called totally made me tear up. &nbsp;

    I give her so much credit coping the way she has. &nbsp;She's obviously someone that will continue being strong and making the most out of her life and her daughter Maddy's life and that makes her an amazing person in my book.

    RIP jessica and kelli...

  11. #11

    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    Police agencies need to be held accountable for these types of senseless deaths. &nbsp;The fact that this particular officer had a dirty driving record makes it even worse in my eyes. &nbsp;I hope the lawsuit is successful and puts these cops on notice that this type of thing will not be tolerated and that they cannot hide behind their blue lights and tin shields. &nbsp;What a horrible tragedy for this family. &nbsp;

    RIP Jessica and Kelli &nbsp; innocent victims of a careless cop.
    Suicide is man&#39;s way of telling God, &quot;You can&#39;t fire me - I quit.&quot; <br />Bill Maher

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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    Where my dad is a cop that are not allowed to chase unless the perp has committed a violent crime and even then they have to get permission and not be in a residential area or traffic. That was put in to place though after an officer killed a family doing about the same thing responding&nbsp; to an accidet or some&nbsp; such.

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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    Another perspective.&nbsp; Interesting article.&nbsp; Apparently the trooper came from a police family.&nbsp; In any event, this is tragic on several levels.&nbsp; Two beautiful girls are dead, people are grieving, and a young guy raised by a loving family makes a shitty decision and pays for the rest of his life.&nbsp; No one wins here.&nbsp; No one wins.

    RIP Jessica and Kelli... your mom is an awesome lady and I have to believe you're watching over her from somewhere.
    Trooper Mitchell, I hope you can find a way to heal physically and emotionally.&nbsp;

    [quote author=http://www.topix.com/content/kri/2007/11/sisters-deaths-left-officer-devastated]Sisters' deaths left officer devastated
    Belleville News-Democrat

    November 28, 2007

    Original Belleville News-Democrat article: Sisters' deaths left officer devastated&nbsp;
    Read all 20 comments ยป
    Illinois State Police Trooper Matt Mitchell, in a hospital getting emergency treatment for severe leg injuries, needed an answer.

    Was anyone else hurt in the crash?

    His brother and a State Police colonel gave him the tragic response: There were deaths.

    Mitchell grew up in a family of police officers and knew that every day when he went to work, there could be a life-or-death situation.

    But when he learned of the fatalities, he cried.

    'He was inquiring about the condition of the other people,' said Mitchell's brother, Mike Burton. 'The colonel and I told him that there were fatalities. Then he teared up.'

    The wreck Friday claimed the lives of sisters Jessica Uhl, 18, and Kelli Uhl, 13, both of Collinsville. Police said that Mitchell, responding to a different crash on Illinois 4, was cut off by a motorist on Interstate 64 near Scott Air Force Base and crossed the interstate's median, resulting in the crash.

    Mitchell, 29, knows well the dangers of his job. His adoptive father, Clayton Mitchell, served the Carlyle Police Department for about 30 years, retiring as the chief of police there. Burton is a retired Clinton County sheriff's deputy.

    Clayton Mitchell and his wife, Lillian, have through the years taken in more than 100 foster children, and adopted 11 of them. Matt Mitchell is one of those foster children who was adopted. He came to the Mitchell home when he was just a toddler.

    'I've had Matt since he was a baby,' Clayton Mitchell said.

    Another foster child of the Mitchells, Marvis McCline, is a Clinton County sheriff's deputy.

    'This is a police family,' Clayton Mitchell said, adding that when he used to go to work, he warned the kids, 'I might not get back.'

    Clayton Mitchell said that Matt Mitchell, a trooper for about six years, had a goal of joining the state police.

    'That was his dream, to be a state police officer,' Clayton Mitchell said.

    Clayton Mitchell said the deaths of the Uhl sisters have been devastating for his son.

    'He's taking it pretty hard,' Clayton Mitchell said.

    Burton said his brother is 'certainly very emotionally upset.'

    'It's just one of those tragic things. Our hearts and prayers go out to the family of the kids that unfortunately died in the accident,' Burton said.

    Burton said he's tried to tell his brother there are no explanations for why some things happen.

    'You have to hold onto your faith. I've tried to stress that to Matt,' Burton said. 'You just try to go on from there and do the best you can.'

    Clayton Mitchell said his son was going through a second round of surgeries on Tuesday. It's expected that he'll have to go through more than a year of recovery.

    'He's got a long way to go, but he's recovering,' Clayton Mitchell said.

    Matt Mitchell was listed in good condition at Barnes-Jewish Hospital in St. Louis.

    Burton said Clinton County deputies, state police and other police agencies have provided 'absolutely unbelievable' support to his family.

    Contact reporter Brian Brueggemann at bbrueggemann@bnd.com or 692-9481.
    [/quote]
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  14. #14

    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    ^^^^ While I am angry at this cop, I second your sentiment, I hope that he finds peace and forgiveness.&nbsp; Everyone makes mistakes, even terrible ones.&nbsp; What makes a good person is how you grow from these mistakes.&nbsp; Hopefully a law or rule about responsible pursuit/response will be made also so that another mother doesn't lose her kids, and another cop doesn't have to deal with the life sentence of guilt that this guy has recieved.

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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    The person who submitted these deaths wrote in the &quot;additional info&quot; section that the officer was also text-messaging when the accident occurred. Whether or not he was using a cell phone or the patrol car's laptop, I don't know. Nor do I know if it's true. I didn't see it stated anywhere in the article.

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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    [quote author=idigapony link=topic=14247.msg862987#msg862987 date=1211398043]
    ^^^^ While I am angry at this cop, I second your sentiment, I hope that he finds peace and forgiveness.&nbsp; Everyone makes mistakes, even terrible ones.&nbsp; What makes a good person is how you grow from these mistakes.&nbsp; Hopefully a law or rule about responsible pursuit/response will be made also so that another mother doesn't lose her kids, and another cop doesn't have to deal with the life sentence of guilt that this guy has recieved.
    [/quote]

    You and KimTisha are correct. I honestly do feel bad that the cop will have to deal with this the rest of his life, I can't imagine feeling that guilt, but I just hate the thought that it happened because he was doing about 125 mph. Just imagine if Joe Schmoe got caught doing that speed. It's dumb but I kind of take it to heart a bit too much when I hear about cops making dumb choices that hurt people. I do understand it was a mistake, but I just can't help but think &quot;You're supposed to be the ones who protect us.&quot;

    I dunno. This case reminds me of one where I live when a cop blew through a red light and smashed into a school bus. I just hate it when cops don't exercise caution when they're driving. I know they're trained to drive in all types of situations, but nothing is fool proof. Case in point--My dad hit a kid in the city once while he was on duty. Kid ran out in front of his car. Luckily, he just had a few broken bones but I know my dad said he felt really bad and he visited the kid in the hospital. I shudder to think what would have happened if he had been flying down the road. My dad is probably the best driver I know, because of all his training, but training doesn't mean tragedies can't happen.

    I dunno, I'll stop rambling now. But this story does make me very sad. &nbsp;:-(
    Try to realize it&#39;s all within yourself. No one else can make you change. And to see you&#39;re really only very small. And life flows on within you and without you.<br /><br />--George Harrison--

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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle


    He was driving to an accident that was over 20 miles away at 126mph...something was bound to go wrong...its common sense.&nbsp;

    Im sure he feel's guilt, but to put others in danger like that is reckless. I hope they use this case in Police Academy training so others will learn from it.

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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    [quote author=nestlequikie link=topic=14247.msg860498#msg860498 date=1211246762]
    Hello:

    I read about these girls a few weeks back somewhere online.&nbsp; I found their mom, Kim's blog - and once I started reading it, I had to read it in its entirety.&nbsp; It is called Parachuting Without a Net - she started it for fun, then used it to help her cope with her divorce and now posts about the deaths of her two girls as well as her day-to-day life.&nbsp;

    http://jumpwithfaith.blogspot.com/20...1_archive.html


    She does have a surviving daughter named Maddy.&nbsp; Her blog is both sad and inspiring.&nbsp; She is one classy lady.&nbsp; I don't think I could cope nearly as well as she has.

    God bless you, Kim and Maddy.

    RIP Jessica and Kelli


    [/quote]

    Ahhhhhh!!!&nbsp; I have been reading her blog for hours now!
    Thanks for the find!

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    Moderator nestlequikie's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehi

    From the article about the lawsuit that jenqtpie posted early in this thread:

    A special grand jury in March, after hearing testimony from two state police investigators, found that Mitchell was driving the Impala east at 126 mph in busy, day-after Thanksgiving traffic while engaged in &quot;other activities,&quot; when it crossed the median of Interstate 64 near the Illinois 158 ramp in Shiloh.

    Robert Haida, the county state's attorney, has repeatedly declined to define what &quot;other activities&quot; could mean.
    I was talking to my husband about this thread last night - and said wouldn't it be awful if the troopers &quot;other activity&quot; was text messaging?? Then I log on today and see what Mike wrote and I honestly feel sick.

    My children's father is a city police officer and I was a policeman's wife for 16 years.&nbsp; Fortunately, he never was involved in hitting someone's car while engaged in &quot;hot pursuit&quot; or while responding to a call.&nbsp; That being said, I, too, think there should be strict rules and/or laws for this type of police activity.

    Sorry for the trooper?&nbsp; As a human, yes I am.&nbsp; I can't imagine the guilt and emotional trauma he feels.&nbsp; As a parent?&nbsp; Not so much.&nbsp;

    I hope Jessica and Kelli's parents prevail in their lawsuit although no amount of money will replace their beautiful girls.&nbsp; &nbsp; Money &quot;talks&quot; in these situations and perhaps a large judgement will force the state of Illinois to rethink their policies on troopers' and police officers' speeds while driving as well as what they should be doing while they are driving at any speed.

    (climbing off my soapbox now)

    I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to. - Donnie Darko

  20. #20

    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    Very true.&nbsp; In Illinois we just passed a law that minors can not talk on a cell phone while driving.&nbsp; (Which on the surface seems like a good idea. We have had a lot of deaths due to this sort of thing.) My problems with this are... Police are allowed to use a fucking laptop while driving, I know that they are trained but seriously?&nbsp; Especially if they are shooting the shit with people on said laptop, and secondly how many &quot;young looking drivers&quot; are going to get pulled over while on the cell phone just so the cops can search their cars and see if anything smells funny.&nbsp; It doesn't sound like a big deal but when people can be pulled over for no reason then things are getting dangerously into S.S. territory.&nbsp; But I do not mean to get off topic...

    How about only text your partner at stop lights?&nbsp; And don't drive 126 mph?&nbsp; Thats not asking much is it?

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    Senior Member kevansvault's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    I feel bad for the officer's family, but not necessarily for him.&nbsp; His actions took the lives of innocents.&nbsp; There's a point in most people's subconscious that says &quot;damn, I'm driving too fast&quot;, &quot;damn, I don't need another drink&quot;,&nbsp; &quot;damn, I better lose this jerk before he rapes me&quot;...our little Jiminy Crickets that tell us when things are or are about to go awry.&nbsp; Apparently this guy didn't have one.
    I worked as a field medic for 12 years, and in that time I know my ambulance has exceeded speed limits, but never to the light speed he was travelling.&nbsp; Hell, he was going so fast he could have gotten to the scene before the accident occured and prevented the whole damn thing.&nbsp; That's excessive, irresponsible, reckless and just plain fucking stupid.&nbsp; I hope he thinks about it until he takes his last breath. &nbsp; But more importantly, I hope that from now on he'll make better decisions.&nbsp; Wonder how he'd feel if it were his children...his family?
    Don't like what I have to say? I respect that. Now go fuck yourself.

  22. #22

    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    You asked what it would be like if his kids were killed?&nbsp; That's one thing I don't like about how we handle things in this country.&nbsp; Police are afforded every protection and every allowance when it comes to commiting a crime.&nbsp; But if the WERE a civilian then they would have thrown the book at him, even if he/she would have been traveling at a more reasonable speed.&nbsp; This guy will walk, I guarentee it.&nbsp; I think he should have to spend at least a couple of years in jail to be sure.&nbsp; But the blue wall of silence will probably protect him.

    All men created equal my ass.


  23. #23
    Senior Member KimTisha's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    He's not getting off without consequence.&nbsp; He lost his job and he's been indicted on two counts of reckless homicide.&nbsp; I doubt a jury will let him skate.

    [quote author=http://www.masscops.com/forums/showthread.php?p=286718] Illinois Trooper Pleads Not Guilty to Crash Charges

    MIKE FITZGERALD
    Belleville News-Democrat (Illinois)

    BELLEVILLE -- Illinois State Police Trooper Matt Mitchell pleaded not guilty to two counts of reckless homicide and two counts of reckless driving against him this morning.Mitchell, who suffered severe leg injuries in the Nov. 23 highway crash that killed two Collinsville sisters, showed up for the hearing in a wheelchair. He appeared before St. Clair County Circuit Judge Stephen Rice, who also set a $30,000 personal recognizance bond for Mitchell.
    The hearing lasted five minutes. Mitchell was represented by Belleville attorney John O'Gara, who entered the not guilty pleas on behalf Mitchell. A trial date has not been set in the case.
    Assistant State's Attorney Justin Hood told Rice he agreed with the request to allow Mitchell to remain free on a personal recognizance bond.
    &quot;We don't think the defendant is a flight risk,&quot; Hood said.
    If convicted on each of the four counts, Mitchell could be sentenced to a maximum of five years in prison on each of the reckless homicide charges, and up to three years on each of the reckless driving charges -- total of 16 years.
    The state's case against Mitchell rests on an Illinois State Police internal affairs investigation of the events leading to the Nov. 23 highway cross-over crash that killed Jessica Uhl, 18, and her sister Kelli, 13, both of Collinsville.
    State police investigators interviewed more than 70 witnesses. O'Gara said he plans to re-interview each of them.
    &quot;Every one and then some,&quot; O'Gara said.
    Mitchell &quot;is of, course, devastated and heartsick about the loss of any life, especially two young, wonderful girls,&quot; O'Gara said.
    A special grand jury found that Mitchell, 29, was driving his 2006 Impala squad car 126 mph in busy, day-after Thanksgiving traffic while engaged in &quot;other activities,&quot; when it crossed the median of Interstate 64 and struck a vehicle carrying the Uhl sisters.
    Last Friday, the grand jury indicted Mitchell on two charges of reckless homicide in the deaths of the Uhl sisters, plus two counts of aggravated reckless driving for injuries inflicted on two other motorists -- Kelly Marler and his pregnant wife, Christine Marler, of Fayetteville. [/quote]

    You are talking to a woman who has laughed in the face of death, sneered at doom and chuckled at catastrophe.
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  24. #24

    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    I hope you are right Kim but I would guess that the guy ends up doing six months - a year TOPS.&nbsp; If I were a betting man...

  25. #25
    Senior Member KimTisha's Avatar
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    Re: Jessica Uhl (18) and Kelli Uhl (13) died when a patrol car struck their vehicle

    [quote author=idigapony link=topic=14247.msg864345#msg864345 date=1211478421]I hope you are right Kim but I would guess that the guy ends up doing six months - a year TOPS.&nbsp; If I were a betting man...[/quote]

    Well.... I am a betting woman.&nbsp; I see your year and raise you four.&nbsp; Minimum.&nbsp; That's my bet.&nbsp;
    You are talking to a woman who has laughed in the face of death, sneered at doom and chuckled at catastrophe.
    ...Collector of Chairs. Reader of Books. Hater of Nutmeg...

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