Ron Paul

[beautiful.disaster]

team obama.

[quote author=PCP777 link=topic=11317.msg643277#msg643277 date=1197044793]
He never votes for legislation unless the proposed measure is expressly authorized by the Constitution.[/quote]

that scares me a little.  the constitution was written a long time ago... times have changed, ya know?  i think there needs to be a little flexibility there.

[bowieluva]

[quote author=red01angel link=topic=11317.msg643285#msg643285 date=1197045211]
Obviously.  But are you saying people who believe in what he stands for shouldn't support him or write him in because we all know he's not going to win? That's how voices are heard and how change happens...look at the suffrage movement.
[/quote]

Takes me back to the good old days of Ralph Nader, when i was an idealist.  Ah yes.  Sigh.  Yeah, I've seen enough elections now to know that the only way change is going to come is if it's from the inside. 

[red01angel]

[quote author=beautiful.disaster link=topic=11317.msg643286#msg643286 date=1197045252]
team obama.

that scares me a little.  the constitution was written a long time ago... times have changed, ya know?  i think there needs to be a little flexibility there.
[/quote]

There is flexibility.  Amendments and varying styles of Constitutional interpretation anyone?

[quote author=bowieluva link=topic=11317.msg643288#msg643288 date=1197045324]
Takes me back to the good old days of Ralph Nader, when i was an idealist.  Ah yes.  Sigh.  Yeah, I've seen enough elections now to know that the only way change is going to come is if it's from the inside. 
[/quote]

Let me guess; you were in your late teens/early 20s ;-)

[deliberate_misuse]

[quote author=Karalicious link=topic=11317.msg643265#msg643265 date=1197043989]
Honestly, I kinda think it's a non-issue. You might as well vote for your cat. Your cat and Ron Paul have exactly the same chances of being elected.  :lol:
[/quote]

I'm afraid you're right.  :lol:

[saidgrace]

[quote author=red01angel link=topic=11317.msg643285#msg643285 date=1197045211]
Obviously.  But are you saying people who believe in what he stands for shouldn't support him or write him in because we all know he's not going to win? That's how voices are heard and how change happens...look at the suffrage movement.
[/quote]

no, please go ahead and support him, but my view of the possibility of that kind of change happening, through those channels, in the political culture that has developed since the days of the suffragettes is cynical at BEST.

i believe strongly that despite the fact that it's distasteful, voting for the lesser of two evils is important, especially when it's the MUCH lesser of two evils. i know that's not a popular opinion. i believe, for example, that getting out and voting for hillary clinton over mitt romney would be an ESSENTIAL thing for any progressive person to do, no matter how much they disliked ol' hil.

[Karalicious]

[quote author=saidgrace link=topic=11317.msg643276#msg643276 date=1197044643]
well, then it's not your reasoning for being anti-choice, is it?
[/quote] I'm guessing his reasoning has more to do with "i'd like to have the choice just in case i get really drunk and knock up some crazy bitch that i don't want to be stuck with for the next 80 years" Hell, i know that's MY logic.  :lol:

EDIT: oops, I thought that it was PRO choice  :lol: :lol:

[deliberate_misuse]

[quote author=saidgrace link=topic=11317.msg643293#msg643293 date=1197045522]
no, please go ahead and support him, but my view of the possibility of that kind of change happening, through those channels, in the political culture that has developed since the days of the suffragettes is cynical at BEST.

i believe strongly that despite the fact that it's distasteful, voting for the lesser of two evils is important, especially when it's the MUCH lesser of two evils. i know that's not a popular opinion. i believe, for example, that getting out and voting for hillary clinton over mitt romney would be an ESSENTIAL thing for any progressive person to do, no matter how much they disliked ol' hil.
[/quote]

This is why I register as the party whose primary I want to vote in.  This year I'm a Democrat.

It makes me sad to read that so many of you women do not or will not vote.  Our right to vote was too hard-won to waste.

[Karalicious]

And you guys can support him and write to him, etc. Life is all about freedom of opinion to me. Just because yours is different than mine doesn't make it dumb. Lots of people do the same thing to Jesus and i don't really believe that to have any real benefit either :)

[Karalicious]

[quote author=deliberate_misuse link=topic=11317.msg643301#msg643301 date=1197045798]
This is why I register as the party whose primary I want to vote in.  This year I'm a Democrat.

It makes me sad to read that so many of you women do not or will not vote.  Our right to vote was too hard-won to waste.
[/quote]I vote. And I will vote for the Democrat. I always do.

[beautiful.disaster]

[quote author=red01angel link=topic=11317.msg643290#msg643290 date=1197045374]
There is flexibility.  Amendments and varying styles of Constitutional interpretation anyone?

[/quote]

i just meant that he takes what the constitution says literally and doesn't leave much room for interpretation...  what it says is what it means.  which isn't always the case especially now-a-days.

[PCP777]

[quote author=deliberate_misuse link=topic=11317.msg643291#msg643291 date=1197045470]
I'm afraid you're right.  :lol:
[/quote]

That's what the main stream media would like you to believe, " He doesn't have a chance so why support him?"

Ron Paul  has raised more than $10 million for his run for president in the past two months, leaving him well positioned to help swing the outcome of the first-in-the-nation primary in New Hampshire, a state well suited to his libertarian, antiwar platform.

[emmieslost]

[quote author=deliberate_misuse link=topic=11317.msg643301#msg643301 date=1197045798]
This is why I register as the party whose primary I want to vote in.  This year I'm a Democrat.

It makes me sad to read that so many of you women do not or will not vote.  Our right to vote was too hard-won to waste.
[/quote]

this is why my republican bf is a registered dem.  it's all strategic.  :)  

to me, overturning roe is a huge issue.  there will be many, many repercussions if this happens.  

i love how most anti-choicers are also anti-well fare.  

anti-abortion or anti-well fare?  you can't have it both ways.

[beautiful.disaster]

[quote author=deliberate_misuse link=topic=11317.msg643301#msg643301 date=1197045798]
This year I'm a Democrat.
[/quote]

do you change every election year?

[Karalicious]

[quote author=PCP777 link=topic=11317.msg643306#msg643306 date=1197046008]
That's what the main stream media would like you to believe, " He doesn't have a chance so why support him?"

Ron Paul  has raised more than $10 million for his run for president in the past two months, leaving him well positioned to help swing the outcome of the first-in-the-nation primary in New Hampshire, a state well suited to his libertarian, antiwar platform.
[/quote] Let us know how that works out for him  :oops:

[saidgrace]

[quote author=Karalicious link=topic=11317.msg643312#msg643312 date=1197046115]
Let us know how that works out for him  :oops:
[/quote]

i will eat my hat.

[bowieluva]

[quote author=Karalicious link=topic=11317.msg643304#msg643304 date=1197045884]
I vote. And I will vote for the Democrat. I always do.
[/quote]
Red: to answer your question, mid-to late teens.  By the time I hit twenty, I was a chain-smoking cynic.  I used to be in the anarchist Black Bloc, which totally made me realize that Thomas Jefferson's opinion that the common man with political ideals is actually a fucking moron is not too far off.  I am a strong supporter in states' rights regarding universal healthcare because I think that's the only way it can be accomplished in this country.  But I am NOT for individual states just making all their own choices.  If that were to ever happen, I'd probably at the very leat be unwelcome in about 90% of this country.

[red01angel]

[quote author=beautiful.disaster link=topic=11317.msg643305#msg643305 date=1197045911]
i just meant that he takes what the constitution says literally and doesn't leave much room for interpretation...  what it says is what it means.  which isn't always the case especially now-a-days.
[/quote]

The constitution SHOULD be taken literally.  It's not symbolic. 
No interpretation?  ANY document or piece of writing is open to interpretation.  Interpreting the Constitution is all the Supreme Court does....and there's a huge area of legal study called Constitutional law which encompasses the Court's interpretation of the meaning of the Constitution as it applies to the time.  It's case and point to the fact that the meaning and interpretation of the US Constitution has and does change with time. 


ETA: I love you guys; I was beginning to lose faith in MDS because of all of the drama and lack of intelligent, non-accusatory discussion.  Hooray for intelligent and friendly debate!!

[deliberate_misuse]

[quote author=beautiful.disaster link=topic=11317.msg643308#msg643308 date=1197046033]
do you change every election year?
[/quote]

Yes, I do.  It's easy.

[quote author=emmieslost link=topic=11317.msg643307#msg643307 date=1197046032]
this is why my republican bf is a registered dem.  it's all strategic.  :)  

to me, overturning roe is a huge issue.  there will be many, many repercussions if this happens.  

[/quote]

Again, call me an optimist, but if Ron Paul wants to be taken seriously, I think he'll realize that his stance on Roe v Wade will alienate too many potential supporters and he'll come up with a more reasonable platform.  

eta:  You are my witnesses -- I just sent him an email.

[emmieslost]

how about tancredo or what ever his name is.  i saw a commercial for him yesterday that was the most racist propaganda i've ever seen in my life.

according to him mexican's only jump the border to rape our children and sell them drugs.  i about died with laughter!  :lol: 

[red01angel]

[quote author=emmieslost link=topic=11317.msg643327#msg643327 date=1197046602]
how about tancredo or what ever his name is.  i saw a commercial for him yesterday that was the most racist propaganda i've ever seen in my life.

according to him mexican's only jump the border to rape our children and sell them drugs.  i about died with laughter!  :lol: 
[/quote]

Are you SERIOUS?!  -goes to search youtube-


ETA:  THEY TOOK OUR JEHHHHHHHHHBSSSSSS
[youtube=425,350]qf3JunNAQQw[/youtube]

[beautiful.disaster]

[quote author=deliberate_misuse link=topic=11317.msg643321#msg643321 date=1197046311]
Yes, I do.  It's easy.
[/quote]

i'm sure it is.  i was just asking because i was curious... i wasn't trying to be shitty or anything.

[quote author=red01angel link=topic=11317.msg643317#msg643317 date=1197046253]
The constitution SHOULD be taken literally.  It's not symbolic. 
No interpretation?  ANY document or piece of writing is open to interpretation.  Interpreting the Constitution is all the Supreme Court does....and there's a huge area of legal study called Constitutional law which encompasses the Court's interpretation of the meaning of the Constitution as it applies to the time.  It's case and point to the fact that the meaning and interpretation of the US Constitution has and does change with time. 


ETA: I love you guys; I was beginning to lose faith in MDS because of all of the drama and lack of intelligent, non-accusatory discussion.  Hooray for intelligent and friendly debate!!
[/quote]

point taken.  i didn't really mean Ron Paul... i should have worded that differently.  i honestly have no idea how he personally interprets the constitution.  what i meant originally was that it scares me that some politicians are so rigid and take what the words mean literally instead of using the words to apply them to todays society and issues.

i took a vicodin like an hour ago so i'm not even sure if that made sense... please forgive me if i doesn't.

[PCP777]

[quote author=beautiful.disaster link=topic=11317.msg643337#msg643337 date=1197047038]
i'm sure it is.  i was just asking because i was curious... i wasn't trying to be shitty or anything.

point taken.  i didn't really mean Ron Paul... i should have worded that differently.  i honestly have no idea how he personally interprets the constitution. 
[/quote]

Fair enough, check him out, the issues tab is a quick read and informative. The problem is how FAR we've strayed from the Constitution.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

[bowieluva]

BD, as a supporter of a national healthcare plan,  I request you share your vicoden.

[deliberate_misuse]

I got a response within three hours, although its content doesn't assuage me.

Here it is:

Dr. Paul recognizes that abortion is not a simple issue, questions
often arise regarding rape, incest, mother's endangerment, etc.  As a
Republican Dr. Paul believes that these difficult issues should be
left to the states, or even better, local counties and cities.  As
difficult decisions are left to the local governments, people have
more control over their own communities.

I know it scares many people to hear that Dr. Paul does desire to
overturn Roe v. Wade, but he doesn't want to replace it with a pro
life counterpart.  He believes the federal government should not be
dictating these very difficult and complicated decisions.

ABORTION

Dr. Paul is one of the leading advocates of Constitutional freedom in
the nation.  He is a firm believer in protecting the rights of all
individual Americans, regardless of age, sex, race, or creed.
According to the Constitution, we have a right to life, liberty and
property.  Dr. Paul believes that it is his duty as a government
representative to fully protect those rights.  As a licensed physician
specializing in obstetrics and gynecology, he personally believes that
life begins at conception, and that it would be contrary to the rights
of an unborn child to abort a pregnancy.

However, Dr. Paul differs from other pro-life candidates in that he
does not support a constitutional amendment banning abortion. He does
not want the federal government to dictate the issue. Dr. Paul is the
prime sponsor of HR 300, which would negate the effect of Roe v Wade
by removing the ability of federal courts to interfere with state
legislation to protect life. Dr. Paul believes that the issue of
abortion should be regulated by the states.

Congressman Paul on why the federalization of abortion law is unconstitutional:
http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=446
"While Roe v. Wade is invalid, a federal law banning abortion across
all 50 states would be equally invalid."

In Congress, Dr. Paul has authored legislation that seeks to define
life as beginning at conception, HR 1094:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.1094:
Section 2 (b, 2): Congress recognizes that each State has the
authority to protect lives of unborn children residing in the
jurisdiction of that State.

Dr. Paul has also authored HR 1095, which prevents federal funds to be
used for so-called "population control."
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.1095:

If you would like to read more about the issue of abortion, then
please visit the Ron Paul Library, an independent collection of
articles and congressional speeches written by Dr. Paul:
http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/topic.php?id=21

I hope this information has been helpful.

[PCP777]

[quote author=deliberate_misuse link=topic=11317.msg643769#msg643769 date=1197064022]
I got a response within three hours, although its content doesn't assuage me.

Here it is:

Dr. Paul recognizes that abortion is not a simple issue, questions
often arise regarding rape, incest, mother's endangerment, etc.  As a
Republican Dr. Paul believes that these difficult issues should be
left to the states, or even better, local counties and cities.  As
difficult decisions are left to the local governments, people have
more control over their own communities.

I know it scares many people to hear that Dr. Paul does desire to
overturn Roe v. Wade, but he doesn't want to replace it with a pro
life counterpart.  He believes the federal government should not be
dictating these very difficult and complicated decisions.

ABORTION

Dr. Paul is one of the leading advocates of Constitutional freedom in
the nation.  He is a firm believer in protecting the rights of all
individual Americans, regardless of age, sex, race, or creed.
According to the Constitution, we have a right to life, liberty and
property.  Dr. Paul believes that it is his duty as a government
representative to fully protect those rights.  As a licensed physician
specializing in obstetrics and gynecology, he personally believes that
life begins at conception, and that it would be contrary to the rights
of an unborn child to abort a pregnancy.

However, Dr. Paul differs from other pro-life candidates in that he
does not support a constitutional amendment banning abortion. He does
not want the federal government to dictate the issue. Dr. Paul is the
prime sponsor of HR 300, which would negate the effect of Roe v Wade
by removing the ability of federal courts to interfere with state
legislation to protect life. Dr. Paul believes that the issue of
abortion should be regulated by the states.

Congressman Paul on why the federalization of abortion law is unconstitutional:
http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=446
"While Roe v. Wade is invalid, a federal law banning abortion across
all 50 states would be equally invalid."

In Congress, Dr. Paul has authored legislation that seeks to define
life as beginning at conception, HR 1094:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.1094:
Section 2 (b, 2): Congress recognizes that each State has the
authority to protect lives of unborn children residing in the
jurisdiction of that State.

Dr. Paul has also authored HR 1095, which prevents federal funds to be
used for so-called "population control."
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.1095:

If you would like to read more about the issue of abortion, then
please visit the Ron Paul Library, an independent collection of
articles and congressional speeches written by Dr. Paul:
http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/topic.php?id=21

I hope this information has been helpful.


[/quote]

I think it's cool that you got a response, maybe you should try some of the other candidates.