Maggie Kamysz (28) walked in front of a train after suffocating her daughter

[luz brillante]

In these type of situations I always like to ask questions going into the psychology of such persons. 

Repeatedly in the articles it has said how much her life revolved around her daughter.  If this was true, if anything were to happen to her daughter that would mess up all that she had obsessively planned for her....
something could have happened to the girl, possibly harm done to her that made the mom think she was better off ending it.

Or she would think that since she was her mother, she was going to have her dead or alive, and there is nothing the court can do about it. 

[sarabei]

[quote author=eccsame link=topic=9912.msg534489#msg534489 date=1189530533]
You're right. She was absolutely sane. To say she wasn't 100% sane when she walked in front of a train after murdering her own child is a slap in the face to people who really are crazy and do crazy things like. . .um. . .oh! I know, like killing your own small daughter and then walking in front of a train. No, wait, that's sane. Crap, you win.
[/quote]

Thanks, that was my goal all along.

[sarabei]

[quote author=alliekat link=topic=9912.msg534493#msg534493 date=1189530845]
I honestly don't see the point in arguing back and forth about something like this anyway, guys.  She's dead.  It's not like we're debating whether she deserves to be in jail or a mental institution.  Plus, the only way to determine if she was sane or not (at the time of the murder-suicide) would be for her to undergo a psychiatric evaluation.  But that can't happen because, once again, she is dead.

What she did was undoubtedly crazy but was she completely insane?  Who knows, really?  No one.  Including both you and Sarabei.  No offense to either of you. 
[/quote]

You are right, there is no way either of us can know for without a doubt this woman's stability.  This one just really gets to me and I can't stand hearing people feeling sorry for that murderess or making excuses for her and what she did.  AND I agree nuff said!  :-)

[puonu]

How could someone live in Crystal Lake and not think something fucked up is going to happen. I'd move asap if I were there.

[sarabei]

[quote author=puonu link=topic=9912.msg534640#msg534640 date=1189538318]
How could someone live in Crystal Lake and not think something fucked up is going to happen. I'd move asap if I were there.
[/quote]

I thought I was the only one who thought of Jason when I heard Crystal Lake...glad to know I wasn't the only one! :lol:

[KimTisha]

[quote author=eccsame link=topic=9912.msg534275#msg534275 date=1189513825]KimTisha, do you really think that the mother was so calculating that she would resort to killing her child as a kind of revenge? [/quote]

Yes, I do.  There are hundreds of examples of psychopathic/sociopathic behavior where the perpetrator is not insane - sarabei named but a few.

[quote author=eccsame link=topic=9912.msg534351#msg534351 date=1189524646] Apologies, I'm not well informed in the world of infanticide. Yet, your assertion that she was calculated and cold-blooded is just as speculative as my believing that she was mentally ill - there's no concrete proof either way. I'm no doctor, but you're not a criminologist and, without a note, it's impossible to say. [/quote]

Speak for yourself, but it's probably not a good idea to make such assumptions about other people on this forum.  And it is not impossible without a note - psychological autopsies are conducted all the time and they are fascinating reading if you ever get your hands on one. 

[quote author=eccsame link=topic=9912.msg534351#msg534351 date=1189524646]Either way, the crime is unpardonable - but I refuse to believe that this was a sane, calculated act.[/quote]

Of course you do - and we should get rid of prisons and build hospitals in their place because, according to your reasoning, a sane person would never kill their child or presumably anyone else.  So now we've got all these insane murderers doing hard time when all they really need is some counseling, maybe a coupla pills, a pat on the back and send them on their way.  I know several defense attorneys who would love to see you on their jury, and I've known several killers who have walked because of a mentality just like yours.  Some of them went on to kill again, you know how the "mentally ill" are, let them get away with it once and next thing you know, you have a repeat offender on your hands.

[quote author=eccsame link=topic=9912.msg534351#msg534351 date=1189524646]Further, were she just looking to prevent the husband's right to visitation, she could have fled the country with the child and returned to Poland. [/quote]

Maggie was a US citizen, born in Chicago - there was no "returning to Poland."  As an ex-pat I can assure you it is not as easy as you may think to pick up and move to another country when you have no sponsorship or support structure.  Unlike the United States, most European countries don't tolerate foreigners on their soil without a damned good reason.  You could always live underground as an illegal, but it's not a very good life and would be especially difficult for a selfish, manipulative woman like Maggie who is used to having things her way.

[jaremelz]

it took me a bit to calm down after reading 'pixies' comments on the previously posted link.  i'm appalled.  making excuses like saying she was pushed to the edge by a custody dispute just sickens me.  alot of people are pushed every day like that but they love their kids even more, they don't kill them.  to paint her out as a victim in any way cheapens that poor childs life.  you know what, some women are just plain bitches.  not all women who are single moms and fighting a custody dispute are sinless angels who are being torn apart by a devil-man.  some are nasty selfish people who have no qualms about mistreating anyone who doesn't fall in line with THEIR plan.  sounds to me like she didn't really care about her child. well, obviously not, since she killed her.  she was a tool to make mom look good.  and one day this woman snapped in a way we will never comprehend.  i hope there is a hell for her.

[bowieluva]

[quote author=eccsame link=topic=9912.msg534275#msg534275 date=1189513825]
KimTisha, do you really think that the mother was so calculating that she would resort to killing her child as a kind of revenge? Generally, sane people don't kill their children. Sane people don't commit suicide. This woman obviously had serious mental issues - this was more than just a selfish response to the father's petition for visitation. Also, I'm fairly certain that part of the reason people were loathe to intervene was some perceived cultural boundary. They probably assumed that Maggie's behavior was a Polish thing and that's how children are treated in that part of the world and, without bruises or obvious signs of physical abuse (I'm not sure that swatting counts since my mother used to "swat" my hands away from my mouth when I would bite my nails - should I have called the cops?), there wasn't a lot they could do. Unfortunately, yelling and berating a child isn't illegal, even if it should be.

So sad. 
[/quote]

A)I'm not kimtisha, but yeah, sadly, we read articles every day about selfish men and women who do things like that.
B) My roommate is from Poland, and she and her family have your typical laid back euro attitude about everything.  I can't imagine her mom or dad ever berating her and humiliating her over mediocre grades.  I myself am of Polish descent and have a lot of friends who are from Poland.  None of them were ever abused like this.  It has nothing to do with where she was from.

[abbykatesmom]

Okay so maybe I am a little sensitive when it comes to the death of a child but this one makes me want to rip someones head right off!  This woman, I won't even call her a Mom was an abusive bitch.  God only knows what this child endured at the hands of this woman in her short 7 years.  I wouldn't call it a psychotic break at all.  She an abusive bitch that probably emotionally, physically and psychologically damaged her little girl.  She is a control freak!  Period! 

I believe that the teachers is somewhat responsible but where was the Dad in all this.  Did he have no clue what this woman was capable of?  I know he was trying to get liberal visitation but what about about custody from this abusive whack-job?

RIP Sydney.  I am so sorry that so many people failed you! 

[habibyalby]

According to the M'Naghten Rules of criminal law, to be declared legally insane at the time of a crime you would have to be unable to distinguish right from wrong at the time of the murder, you would not have the fluid concept that committing this murder is wrong, or the capacity to understand it. Obviously from a criminal point of view, she knew that killing her daughter was wrong. She didn't have any record of a defect in the mind or body. She committed suicide soon thereafter, so she knew that she would either be caught, or was wrestling with conflicting emotions. This indicates that she knew what she did was wrong. She was not acting in the capacity that a person who is truly legally insane does. I think "insane" gets thrown around alot when people do things which we cannot morally comprehend. But there are sadistic people and people with anti-social personality disorder that are functioning every day in our society, and it does a great deal of disservice to people who are legally insane to throw around the term so loosely. People are really just fucked up in general, I've seen this firsthand. And its not due to a defect in the mind or insanity, its due to people just being malicious and vindictive.

Also, I want to state that I really only seen this logic thrown around when it has to do with a mother killing her child. All of a sudden, the mother MUST have been suffering from PPD, snapped, or something was mentally defective. For the record, I have seen more women then men that have been sadistic abusers, men are more opportunistic, but women are cruel as all hell. Some women don't have that "maternal bond" with their young one. Its not so crazy and unbelievable when a mother does something like this to her child.

[MorbidCuriousity]

I am in the middle of reading this book:

http://www.curledup.com/sociopat.htm

Maggie sounds like a classic sociopath. One of the primary characteristics is to not truly feel love for anyone, even spouses and children. A child would be a tool to make them look good in some way. Everyone is to be manipulated basically.

And that's what she did. She manipulated her daughter all the kiddo's short life. Her husband probably left because he was being manipulated. The BF didn't want her to live there and wasn't in a hurry to marry because she manipulated him.

And in the end when no one responded to her manipulation as she wished she trumped them all by having the final word. The end. I WIN!

It's all about winning with sociopaths. She is a textbook example.

[KimTisha]

[quote author=habibyalby link=topic=9912.msg535152#msg535152 date=1189568315]Also, I want to state that I really only seen this logic thrown around when it has to do with a mother killing her child. All of a sudden, the mother MUST have been suffering from PPD, snapped, or something was mentally defective. For the record, I have seen more women then men that have been sadistic abusers, men are more opportunistic, but women are cruel as all hell. Some women don't have that "maternal bond" with their young one. Its not so crazy and unbelievable when a mother does something like this to her child.[/quote]

Or a woman killing anyone, period.  If she kills her husband it has to be because she has "Battered Woman Syndrome," because gee... a woman wouldn't just kill someone for revenge or pure evilness, only men can do that.  I took a lot of heat rounds in this forum for bringing this up in a previous post but it's true.

A dear friend's nephew was murdered by his wife as he slept - she bashed his head with a frying pan and when that didn't quite kill him she finished him off with a shotgun blast to the abdomen.  Her defense was "BWS."  She was totally under his control, he was insanely jealous and violent, she had no way out of the situation blah, blah, blah.  Her claim was contradicted by overwhelming evidence to the contrary:  she worked outside the home in a truck-stop bar (not the kind of work an insanely jealous husband would "allow" his wife to have); in nearly three years of marriage he had never signed his own paycheck but rather turned them all over to her; she wrote all the checks, paid all the bills and was in total control of their finances to include secret bank accounts in her name only; she had a regularly scheduled "Girls Weekend" every month at a resort spa (hubby stayed home and watched the baby); she was juggling three boyfriends (they all testified); and two truck drivers testified she asked them to kill her husband because she didn't want to have to go through "the mess of a divorce;" just to name a few. 

This is hardly the pattern of a controlling, abusive husband, and yet she was acquitted of first degree murder and convicted of a much lesser charge of simple manslaughter.  Why?  Because a lone female juror (someone like eccsame) was a holdout who didn't believe a woman could be that vicious without being mentally defective or being pushed to it.  In her parole hearing, the prison psychiatrist described Rita as cold, calculating, and manipulative.  She said she showed absolutely no remorse and strongly believed she did nothing wrong.  As for repeat offenses, the psychiatrist advised she had no doubt Rita would kill again "if it suited her needs."  Thanks to the naivete of one hare-brained juror, Rita was back on the street in just under six years.

Women can be vicious - Maggie Kamysz is proof of that.  Not a single person who knows her has come forward to defend her actions or talk about what a great person she was and how she was pushed by her ex-boyfriend (not even her family!).  In fact, the only two people I've seen defending this child killer are "Pixie/eccsame."  However, a lot of people who know her are coming forward and talking about her cruel and abusive treatment of her daughter and those around her.  Hmmmm.... who to believe?  Who to believe? 

RIP dear, sweet child Sydney. 

Rot in hell Maggie. 

[bowieluva]

I've watched enough Lifetime movies to know that women murder men out of selfish greed all the time.

[KimTisha]

[quote author=bowieluva link=topic=9912.msg535205#msg535205 date=1189574490]I've watched enough Lifetime movies to know that women murder men out of selfish greed all the time. [/quote]

You and Alliekat! 

[MorbidCuriousity]

[quote author=bowieluva link=topic=9912.msg535205#msg535205 date=1189574490]
I've watched enough Lifetime movies to know that women murder men out of selfish greed all the time.
[/quote]

SNAPPED! I love that show. Or is it Oxygen?

[bowieluva]

[quote author=Morbid Curiousity link=topic=9912.msg535209#msg535209 date=1189575060]
SNAPPED! I love that show. Or is it Oxygen?
[/quote]
That's on Oxygen.  Which I never watch because Oprah is the devil.

[MorbidCuriousity]

[quote author=bowieluva link=topic=9912.msg535210#msg535210 date=1189575142]
That's on Oxygen.  Which I never watch because Oprah is the devil.
[/quote]

High five on that!

Year old topic: http://mydeathspace.com/smf/index.php?topic=1556.0

RIP Sydney

[KimTisha]

[quote author=Kristinella link=topic=9912.msg533329#msg533329 date=1189441631]
This is from the boyfriends blog:

"Today is the day. In a few short hours I will lay my baby to rest. Her and her daughter deserved better than this. Two beautiful souls lost. Things I could have done better, things I should have said. Things I could have done.  Why did I laugh the last time I saw her. Why didn't I just tell her to stay with me? Why did I send her away? Olive Juice? Why not just I love you? Now I don't get that chance again. Time heals all wounds, but I don't want these to heal. I could have been better to them. They deserved better than me. Maggie and Sydney, you will always be with me. I will never forget the time we had. I'm sorry I wasn't man enough to step up and take responsibility.  I love you. I miss you. Why did you leave me? I can't make it without you. " [/quote]

And this response to the blog:

james
your lover was a murderer, she should have just killed herself and letf THE CHILD alive ffs , people like her make me sick !!!!!!!!!!!! i hope her soul is tormented forever

Posted by james on September 11, 2007 - Tuesday at 7:42 PM

If I could give "james" good karma I would.

[alliekat]

[quote author=Morbid Curiousity link=topic=9912.msg535209#msg535209 date=1189575060]
SNAPPED! I love that show. Or is it Oxygen?
[/quote]
I DVR Snapped!  :oops:  I love that show!